Farmers are reluctant to stop using toxic weed killers

[canuckamuck]

5 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

I have a close by friend that has a number of them and uses them regularly. (Sharpens/hones more regularly probably). Wins the race against a 4 stroke brush cutter. 

Can you hook a guy up with a supplier and a price? or just the guys phone number?

[IsaanAussie]

I'll ask and get back to you. I just edited my last post ..... From India, my mate thinking of importing.

[kickstart]

As for a scythe have a word with TV's cooked ,he uses a scythe regularly  ,I think  it was imported from Europe .

As IA said they need sharpening regular and good sharpening stones are not available in Thailand ,one would have to be imported .

As for race scythe/grass strimmer  ,my 2-stroke strimmer  ,with a cord on ,not a blade ,can soon knock down a large area of grass .

[IsaanAussie]

The deal is done. All three chemicals banned effective 1st December. We all need to buy a scythe or two.

 

[farmerjo]

3 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

The deal is done. All three chemicals banned effective 1st December. We all need to buy a scythe or two.

 

Just add them to the bill.

 

 

At the same time, the farming sector must use non-chemical substitutes [to kill weeds] for the sake of health and the environment. We therefore ask the government to compensate us for the extra labour costs of 1.2 trillion baht a year and to help us find workers to manually root out weed.

"If the authorities can’t do so, we’d like to see Agriculture Minister Chalermchai Sri-on and his deputy, Mananya Thaiset, pull out the weed themselves in 60 million rai in 30 days."

 

Old Chalermchai and Mananya are going to be busy with those scythes.????

Edited October 23, 2019 by farmerjo

[IsaanAussie]

Ban the second hand tractor imports as well. I'll bet Kubota and Yanmar are smiling. 

[farmerjo]

Well no surprise a farmers lobby has taken the decision to ban the 3 chemicals to the court.

[Grumpy John]

Black market price is 500 baht/litre.  That's 2500 for 5L....bit of a jump from 450 baht for 5L!

[farmerjo]

9 minutes ago, Grumpy John said:

Black market price is 500 baht/litre.  That's 2500 for 5L....bit of a jump from 450 baht for 5L!

I stocked up for the next 4 years already,they might have an alternative by then if there lucky.

[IsaanAussie]

42 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

I stocked up for the next 4 years already,they might have an alternative by then if there lucky.

I asked a local who does the spraying for us what he was going to do. He said he has a stockpile. Asked him if he was afraid of being caught. No he said, adding they never find.

[farmerjo]

I already have accreditation for using agriculture chemicals but hope the Thai's will do as well.

As it is there chance to prove themselves.

Would like to see some sort of scheme where while it's being disputed that throw away coveralls are provided with any purchase for the user. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by farmerjo

[VocalNeal]

^ Hope they are not plastic coveralls. ????

[farmerjo]

4 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

^ Hope they are not plastic coveralls. ????

You know the type,sweat your box off but they are standard in most industries.

Edited October 29, 2019 by farmerjo

[kickstart]

21 hours ago, farmerjo said:

I already have accreditation for using agriculture chemicals but hope the Thai's will do as well.

As it is there chance to prove themselves.

Would like to see some sort of scheme where while it's being disputed that throw away coveralls are provided with any purchase for the user. 

It would be the same in most western country's ,you need a ticket/accreditation ,to use a sprayer and handle chemicals ,I think it is a 3-4  day coarse ?in the UK before you get your ticket .

I would like to see the same over here ,farmers /contractors going on a coarse before using a sprayer ,but as we know more chances of wining the Thai lottery before that happens.

It is not only chemicals ,any one can go in to a shop and buy antibiotics ,hormones ,for injecting livestock ,in our country it is only vets that can legally buy drugs , all drugs say POM on the bottles  one drug Imazol used for tick fever ,in the UK they is a lot of red tape in the selling and injecting ,over here  any one can just go and buy it.  

[IsaanAussie]

On 10/29/2019 at 2:46 PM, farmerjo said:

You know the type,sweat your box off but they are standard in most industries.

How did we get on to beekeepers suits? LOL

[farmerjo]

46 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

How did we get on to beekeepers suits? LOL

They were standard chemical suits way back when i worked on malathion pumps in the late 80's and still used to today when using reagents and pesticide spraying.

[IsaanAussie]

Here is a Bloomberg article concerning the US pushback against the Glyphosate ban. It suggests that Trump wants to reduce the trade deficit with Thailand. Thai PM been invited to the states to see the "evidence". Interesting read if you have the time, but I doubt the ban will be lifted.

https://news.bloombergenvironment.com/environment-and-energy/thailand-faces-u-s-pushback-over-ban-of-roundup-pesticide 

[farmerjo]

13 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

Here is a Bloomberg article concerning the US pushback against the Glyphosate ban. It suggests that Trump wants to reduce the trade deficit with Thailand. Thai PM been invited to the states to see the "evidence". Interesting read if you have the time, but I doubt the ban will be lifted.

https://news.bloombergenvironment.com/environment-and-energy/thailand-faces-u-s-pushback-over-ban-of-roundup-pesticide 

There are a few concerning points for me.

Nearly all glyphosate products in stores around me come from china,think i've seen monsanto roundup once. 

The snake oil products the government is trying to get through can replace paraquat,no problem there except for the cost,amount of water required and the misleading instructions.

Since all the alternatives are systematic nothing can work like glyphosate.

Read in a news article Bayer were spending 5.6 billion over the next 10 years on R&D to come up with a replacement for roundup.

Does that mean we are foolish to put these alternate products into the market place to find in 40 years time we've create a different monster.

I'm not sold on glyphosate being bad.The courts can't prove the chemical itself is bad,only been judged on incorrect handling and rates.(there is a billion people involved in farming worldwide)

Being involved in the grain industry,farming as employee,contractor,owner and years on gold and copper mines dealing with reagents i'm comfortable with glyphosate as a product.

If Thailand wants a push to organic farming,be smart about,start with a large zone 1st were only organic is allowed.

You can't mix the two different farming technics,get rid of 3 chemicals and all is rosy.

What about the other 100's of selective products still being used.  

The organic sector is not regulated professionally and until they sort that out they need to get Biothai out of their ear and go with farming facts.

  

[Grumpy John]

I've bought a few 3M things on Aliexpress.  They have paper overalls, white with a blue back that can be rinsed a few times.  The missus stands in the shower room and rinses off after returning from the orchard.  I tried a 3M full face mask but I got so hot I almost passed out.  We use part face masks and goggles now.  Not so hot but not 100 percent cover.  I see a few Thai people are using masks now.   TiK and I have started a trend!

Edited October 31, 2019 by Grumpy John
Smelling

[IsaanAussie]

Interesting article in the "other paper" (BP) on the effects of the ban on specific crops today.

[farmerjo]

I can't see glyphosate being banned.

What i see is limited amount to be imported.Authorised sellers only and a certificate to purchase.

Let's face it,what sort of fine will there be using it?

The farmers that use paraquat will be told to change as there is an alternative even if the price is insane.The poor guys spraying,imagine having to fill a 20 litre motorised backpack 19,200 times to spray 30 rai.

I get frustrated with the publicity these chemicals have got.Repeat there are no GMO in thailand and no pre-harvest spraying with them.

I know i am biased on the subject because my efforts to bring agriculture forward in this country will be lost to the ways of farming in the 70's.

I thought i would dig up this article from a few years ago by Biothai on rice production here to see what chemicals were having an impact on rice.

https://www.biothai.org/node/274

 

[IsaanAussie]

2 hours ago, farmerjo said:

I get frustrated with the publicity these chemicals have got.Repeat there are no GMO in thailand and no pre-harvest spraying with them.

This is perhaps the issue behind it, like "being a little bit pregnant". Recently I read there were plans to test imports for residuals. The US crops are the most "exposed" to round-up and are therefore likely to be banned. I can imagine that local crops having a much smaller residual level may not be relevant to the yanks, "residuals are residuals!" 

It seems like the Thai government might be aiming at increasing its rice exports to markets that wish to import "residue free" if not organic crops. Thailand used to be the leading exporter and rice was number 1. Now rice is rated tenth as an export. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by IsaanAussie

[farmerjo]

1 hour ago, IsaanAussie said:

It seems like the Thai government might be aiming at increasing its rice exports to markets that wish to import "residue free"

That makes sense with the high baht,sell organic rice at conventional prices to stay in the market(not sure how that will help the farmers).Find it hard to see where they are going to get that amount of rice from with all the other pesticides used in crop and storage. 

It does seem they do work to global standards on MRL's,problem is a lot of countries have been setting their own standards.(GMO growers)

It will create trade barriers so they have a lot to work out.

http://food.fda.moph.go.th/law/data/announ_moph/V.English/No.387.pdf

 

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by farmerjo

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks for sharing that document. Maybe I should re-read it yet again, for the life of me I can't find glysophate listed????

I do remember the local press coverage given to European countries burning GMO crops and in particular roundup ready ones. 

I know a guy who exports fully certified organic rice, hom mali and other heritage types to Europe. Thousands of tonne per year, much of it top shelf packaged Kilo lots. He has a list of contracted growers who supply him and they get a premium farm gate price. So there are markets there. I doubt Somchai the average farmer is going to ante up for the certification process though. But you never know, quite a few jumped into the eternal profits of rubber and other crops.

[IsaanAussie]

Another report on the situation with the US chemical based government.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/10/thailand-pesticides-dow-monsanto-syngenta-trump

[farmerjo]

3 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Another report on the situation with the US chemical based government.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/10/thailand-pesticides-dow-monsanto-syngenta-trump

The advantage the yanks have is they have been practising minimum tillage and cover crops for decades so to adjust away from GMO crops while not ideal for the farmers pockets,extra carrots could be dangled and it could be a smooth transition.

You would still have a problem being you would need an alternate to glyphosate for weed knockdowns prior to planting which hasn't been developed yet.

And at the end of the day it will be one of those companies that comes up with the solution,not old mate down the road with a 200 litre drum and a stirring stick.

 

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, farmerjo said:

...... old mate down the road with a 200 litre drum and a stirring stick.

Sums me up perfectly LOL. Still looking for an answer

[kickstart]

6 hours ago, farmerjo said:

The advantage the yanks have is they have been practising minimum tillage and cover crops for decades so to adjust away from GMO crops while not ideal for the farmers pockets,extra carrots could be dangled and it could be a smooth transition.

You would still have a problem being you would need an alternate to glyphosate for weed knockdowns prior to planting which hasn't been developed yet.

And at the end of the day it will be one of those companies that comes up with the solution,not old mate down the road with a 200 litre drum and a stirring stick.

 

I think we have an advantage over the yanks ,our hot weather ,if you use a minimum tillage machine ,and go over the land in say April time ,our hot whether at that time of the year should kill off the weeds ,when the rains come just drill your crop ,with maize, the growing crop should shade out most weeds ,some grass weeds might get away ,but say an inter row hoe should help with weed control (that was something we did in the UK with sugar beet ),

Can not say this will kill all weeds ,but a high percentage should die ,and if these chemical banns are relay effective ,and not just a lot of talk  and every thing carries  on as before ,might this  be one way to go ??.

I agree with you about cover crops, a cover crop,in with the  roller conditioner and drill ,I can see some grass weeds still growing .

But, I can not see Somchie  growing a crop just to incorporate in to the land ,he will think of the cost  of that crop ,and can he still get in his  two crops a year ,this year he has a job to get one crop ,a guy near me did it grow some mung beans ploughed it in then planted sugar cane ,still a poor crop of cane ,that land is well shot of something .

[kickstart]

Two different crops of sunflowers ,both were  direct drilled in to maize stubble ,the first crop the owner had 4-5 people in for 2 days hoeing what few weeds where they .

Now he will shut the field  gate and open it again for the combine ,no chemicals are used on sunflowers ,and very little fertilizer ,if any is applied,one crop that will not be effected by the ban . 

[farmerjo]

20 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Two different crops of sunflowers ,both were  direct drilled in to maize stubble ,the first crop the owner had 4-5 people in for 2 days hoeing what few weeds where they .

Now he will shut the field  gate and open it again for the combine ,no chemicals are used on sunflowers ,and very little fertilizer ,if any is applied,one crop that will not be effected by the ban . 

Where's all the stubble gone KS.

Forage crop or baled.

Nice looking crop.