Cash Requirements

[thailand49]

Why? when you think about it whoever came up with these rules are doing us a favor they actually got it right if you break it down?

 

If you are single retired, they know exactly the reason and the rules are there to protect you from buying too many LD drinks, overpaying for Barfines, worse sponsoring. The want you to keep that Land of Smile while you are here long term.

The marriage 400,000 is lower than the 800,000 that makes sense, everyone knows if you are married to a Thai it is near impossible to keep 800,000 in the bank since one got to take care of everyone in the family.

 

It all makes sense quit complaining!????

 

 

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

Allowing that we are addressing living inside the country after having been granted a Visa allowing the individual an annual stay?

For a limited period. Should one choose to APPLY for an extension of stay one must be aware of, and abide by, the requirements.

[wwest5829]

3 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

For a limited period. Should one choose to APPLY for an extension of stay one must be aware of, and abide by, the requirements.

In that case, entering on a US Tourist Visa you may stay for 6 months and you will not need to report every 90 days, you will not be reported to immigration at hotels or if you stay at any friends houses, you will not be required to do any “TM30” reporting. Your 1st Tourist Visa is granted for 1 year and you may enter and leave the USA at will with no re-entry charges. Your 2nd Tourist Visa is typically granted for a period of 10 years and again you can enter and leave the country at will and not report your whereabouts to immigration police. Yes, sometimes we retirees forget we are guests and not living in a democracy where people can raise questions and appeal for reviews of regulations we find unjust.

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, owenm said:

If a single retiree, who maybe asset rich, owning a 4-6 mill Mc Mansion, (less the land) a modern car, one or two motorbikes etc. but solely reliant on their pension for day to do living expenses, is then caught short.. And each extension is only for 12 mths with no future guarantee if further changes are implemented to weed out more and more expats. 

 

How many are receiving an OAP from their home countries that exceed the min. of 65k per month? 

I know that a typical Aussie, who is 100% solely reliant on their pension for retirement, is only receiving about 37k monthly.. And still caught short for married visa extension of 40k..

 

How much is the OAP for UK, Canada, US and various European countries? I'm sure many are under the min 65k per month unless they also have a private fund.. 

 

Now that many IOs won't accept combo method, it means you have to have 400/800k in the bank, and no ifs or buts.. Plus having to report any movements 24/7 with TM30..

 

A Thai could move to Australia as a married or defacto to a citizen and have temp residency within a couple of months, and PR within 2 years. They have immediate access to free healthcare under Medicare, can work in any job they are qualified for, can purchase a house and land without restrictions, and don't have reporting requirements for their every move, holiday, weekend away or overseas trip.. 

Then they can become a citizen with an Australian passport within 5 years.

 

Thailand is becoming more repressive than North Korea, China or Zimbabwe with their dislike for farang retirees living in their country, wanting to know their every move, and having to prove an income of more than is reasonably needed to live here comfortably.. 

 

Ah, I think my door bell rung.. Five police to check my passport and whether I've filed my TM30.. 5556..

Australians have had access to compulsory superannuation for decades, with very generous tax free salary sacrifice options. There shouldn't be any newish retirees solely reliant on the pension. If they are then they shouldn't have the fantasy of living overseas. Stay home.

Sorry to sound harsh but those are the facts.

The benefits that Australia gives to Thais are irrelevant. My wife gets all the benefits - the lucky country thing.

I've been coming to Thailand for about 5 years on visa exempt entry monthly without issue. I've just changed to Non O multiple entry based on marriage - still no cash tied up in Thailand. When the time comes I'll put a million or two into a Thai bank account and not worry about anything.

 

I feel for the guys who have been here a long time and have been blindsided by exchange rates etc, but that is life. I do not feel for the guys who have been here a couple, 3 or 4 years and are obviously underfunded. Go home guys, it's not going to get any better. The dream is over.

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

So we have the 800k in the bank Term deposit All the time , The <deleted> is if one needs some money for a special reason maybe  (Hospital) then one hasn't got enough money in the bank for the next extension,,, Remember what they say 800K for 5 Months and the other 7 Months 400K .   I say Utterly insane it doesn't make sense but this is Thailand ,if one compares Thailand to the rest of the world Not much makes sense .One must have other savings to make up for the the money that we can't use.  ????

Look at is a bond, like renting a house. You'll get it back when you leave. You still have to live and need extra money for that. If all you have in the world is 800k baht you are basically stuffed. Try telling your landlord 'I gave you a good deposit but I can't afford to pay the rent'. See how you go!

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, madmen said:

Yes but what all up costs. My understanding is its not cheap to apply and no refunds if refused

I used an immigration agent and glad I did. All up 8 years ago about 10,000 dollars. I understand the applications fees etc have gone up since then.

There was a lot of hidden costs. A lot of Thai documents that need to be translated and certified  - 70 BUCKS PER A4 page!!! That added up pretty quickly. 15 pages per thousand dollars. Probably more expensive now.

Edited August 28, 2019 by emptypockets

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, Acharn said:

Have you ever read Parkinson's Law? It's partly a matter of ideology and partly a matter of office politics. The ideology goes back to Field Marshall Phibunsongkhram. Back in the late '30s he led a fascist faction in the revolutionary party. Very racist, very nationalistic. They claimed lands that had once been controlled by the Kingdom of Siam but had been ceded to foreigners, France and England, should be restored to Thailand. This was the reason the the Land Law of 1942, which codified that foreignerscould not own land in Thailand. People who believed in this ideology were still in powerful positions in 1976. Fast forward, Thaksin's first Minister of the Interior was a leader of the "church wing" of the Phalang Dhamma Party, and anti-foreigner, so the sentiment has never gone away. Now, the Parkinson's Law part. In the bureaucracy one way to gain promotion is to propose new policies that get adopted and require more people to administer. You can then be put in charge of those people and, Voila!, you have to be promoted because you are in charge of more people. Where do you think the TM30 requirement came from? Also, by the way, probably the vast majority of long-term foreign residents don't have large assets.

our lasts sentence is probably very true. Most came here to live a cheaper lifestyle which would indicate limited financial capability to begin with. Hard to imagine those living in 10 million dollar villas having trouble scraping up 800k. 

Most people may have the 1-2 million dollar farang mansion in the wife's name - if they are lucky. Others in a condo of similar value. If they can ever sell it.

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, rascalman said:

Do not understand : why good typically old are thrown out? 

Many of us have not asked for anything, spending lots of money, behaving and good citizens. 

Do not get it at all……?  FIX THIS PLEASE NOW. 

 

Stop spending and start saving. That's one way of fixing it. 

Many don't spend lots of money. Many barely survive, read the posts of how low cost some people live.

[emptypockets]

25 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

In that case, entering on a US Tourist Visa you may stay for 6 months and you will not need to report every 90 days, you will not be reported to immigration at hotels or if you stay at any friends houses, you will not be required to do any “TM30” reporting. Your 1st Tourist Visa is granted for 1 year and you may enter and leave the USA at will with no re-entry charges. Your 2nd Tourist Visa is typically granted for a period of 10 years and again you can enter and leave the country at will and not report your whereabouts to immigration police. Yes, sometimes we retirees forget we are guests and not living in a democracy where people can raise questions and appeal for reviews of regulations we find unjust.

The requirements to enter the US are irrelevant. Having a tourist visa to the US doesn't get you into Thailand. My wife has PR in OZ and doesn't have to do a thing to stay there. But that is irrelevant also. What is relevant are the current Thai requirements.

Good luck with raising questions and appealing for reviews - nobody is listening apart from like minded posters on this forum. Sad but true at this point.

Hopefully people in power may listen and act. 

It may be coincidence but since the TM-30 petition there seems to be a lot more stories on this forum of people getting fined/hassled for non compliance.

[tranquilogringo]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

It's security for them, that you can afford to support yourself, in their country, and perhaps pay your medical bills.

 

It's actually the opposite of that. If you can't spend it it only proves you can't use THAT money to support yourself and others. And if you have a medical emergency and have to use the locked-up cash and fall below the minimums you might lose your residency visa as a result. This 800,000 lock-up for six months a year plus 400,000 locked up forever is a net negative for the Thai economy and Thai people. The forced importation of foreign money to sit in Thai banks contributes, in part, to the strength of the Thai baht. Baht strength has a negative effect on tourism, manufacturing, exports and Thai jobs. I support myself and others in Thailand, and contribute to the Thai economy, from a small pension and investments abroad. As a direct result of a portion of monies I import annually for living expenses in Thailand now declared unusable by Thai immigration law, I have cut back my spending. I eat out less (hurts restaurants), travel less (hurts hotels), drink less beer (hurts Singh) etc. etc. When you take the 800k/400k lock-up, the new TM-30 rule, 90 day reports, need permission to leave and re-enter the country, annual re-application of visa, and the coming/here compulsory health insurance, it's clear that immigration law, requirements and procedure, is sadly increasingly making Thailand less hospitable to long-stay expats many of whom support Thai wives/girlfriends and their Thai children.

I'm just one expat living in Thailand. But because I live in Thailand, I had eight people visit me last year. One expat equals one expat plus eight tourists. I like Thailand. I like the Thai people and Thai culture. I like living here. I don't want to leave. But it does seem to me that the Thai Tourism Authority (TAT) and Thai immigration are effectively pulling in opposite directions to the detriment of the Thai economy and it's people.

[wwest5829]

23 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

The requirements to enter the US are irrelevant. Having a tourist visa to the US doesn't get you into Thailand. My wife has PR in OZ and doesn't have to do a thing to stay there. But that is irrelevant also. What is relevant are the current Thai requirements.

Good luck with raising questions and appealing for reviews - nobody is listening apart from like minded posters on this forum. Sad but true at this point.

Hopefully people in power may listen and act. 

It may be coincidence but since the TM-30 petition there seems to be a lot more stories on this forum of people getting fined/hassled for non compliance.

Agree, we are not talking about entrance Visas but rather what a foreign national must comply with once in the foreign country that is why my statement was based on that premise. Different entry Visas, different reporting requirements. Someone had raised the issue of what Thais had to contend with in the home countries of those of us who live here. As in your wife’s case quite different ( in the US akin to having a ”green card” I think) I am aware that I too would be relieved of many of these reporting requirements if I were able to secure Permanent Residency.

Edited August 28, 2019 by wwest5829

[Bangkok Barry]

15 hours ago, Youlike said:

And why do we have to show funds to get a non-o visa when the married thai wife makes/has plenty of cash.??

 

And why do we have to show it cash at the embassy? If you show them a huge house which is paid off they won't accept it.

 

And why is it only foreigners and not Thais who have to keep 400,000/800,000 in a bank? Why?

[La Migra]

The Philippines has a retirement visa, SRRV, which requires a similar deposit to be held in specific accounts. They will allow conversion of some or all of the money to be converted into real estate holdings. (Only reason I bring this up as a contrast to Thailand policy)

They do not require annual applications for extensions like Thailand, but I am sure they keep track of the investment, deposits somehow.

But, since The Philippines currently treats tourist visas like Thailand used to operate; multiple extensions, visa runs, back to back for years, there isn't the demand for the SRRV.

[lopburi3]

8 hours ago, La Migra said:

But, since The Philippines currently treats tourist visas like Thailand used to operate; multiple extensions, visa runs, back to back for years, there isn't the demand for the SRRV.

PI does not require a visa run for less that a 3 year stay on tourist visa.  That was never the case in Thailand.

[digger70]

16 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Look at is a bond, like renting a house. You'll get it back when you leave. You still have to live and need extra money for that. If all you have in the world is 800k baht you are basically stuffed. Try telling your landlord 'I gave you a good deposit but I can't afford to pay the rent'. See how you go!

It 's not same  as a bond ,we can't  use  any of the 800 K for 5 months and for 7 months can only use 400K . what I was saying if one has a emergency one couldn't use any of the money in said period of time Don't have a Landlord, we own the the land and the house we build.  

[Nowisee]

The obvious reason why thai immigration only accepts 800k in a thai bank is because of incompetence.  The inability of thai immigration staff to read and understand a pension document or bank statement from the applicants home country.
The proof of that is each person applying for the OA visa in home country shows these very documents to the thai consulate in that country and it's approved, no 800k required in a thai bank.
Also, the fact that immigration accepted a affidavit from the various embassies.  

 

The defenders that say it's a bond, surety or to cover living expenses are just wrong.  The 5 month holding period and the 7 month 400k restriction prove that AND if you tap into any of that prematurely, you have violated the extension.  As does the fact that you can go home, get a new OA visa that is valid for 2 years and does not require money in a thai bank. 

 

The defenders that say those that complain about putting money in thai bank obviously don't have the money is nonsense.  
People that are smart with their finances know that putting 800k in a bank here creates issues when you want to liquidate that money and repatriate it back to farangland.  Not too mention unfavorable exchange rates and transfer fees.  Living here using credit cards, debit cards and occasional ATM pulls is easily accomplished by many.  

The other obvious signal is that you can pay an agent and not have to put money in the bank. 



 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Nowisee

[La Migra]

On 8/28/2019 at 5:29 PM, lopburi3 said:

PI does not require a visa run for less that a 3 year stay on tourist visa.  That was never the case in Thailand.

Excellent clarification.

I was hoping to convey that it used to be easier to stay in Thailand long term on a tourist visa, and you can still do that in The Philippines.

3 year stay on tourist visa!

But mostly that their SRRV has a deposit requirement like Thailand, but allows for approved investments. 

[timendres]

On 8/28/2019 at 4:43 PM, DiDiChok said:

My opinion is that the Thais just don't like anything too efficient like computers that never forget anything.  Paperwork is good because things can get lost easily.

Ding ding ding. Give this man a cigar. Spot on.

 

On 8/28/2019 at 4:43 PM, DiDiChok said:

Problems start for us because of the farang mentality that requires 'rules to live by'.  Another problem comes from our mentality that says that when caught doing something wrong, you have to stop doing it.  So when we're stopped for riding a motorcycle without a helmet, we don't understand that once your details have been taken you can go on your way.  Thais have a system that 'nudges' you towards compliance - something that is only now being recognised as leading edge thinking in the west because it works.  Having a system that tries to 'fine' or to 'imprison' society's way out of a problem only makes more problems and can never work in countries that have low incomes.

Again, brilliant observation.

And, guess what? I doesn't work all that well in countries that have high incomes.

[lopburi3]

8 hours ago, La Migra said:

But mostly that their SRRV has a deposit requirement like Thailand, but allows for approved investments. 

And it also has exceptions for diplomats/military/others that have worked in PI to allow much lower financials.  And those married to local national get a one year stay when arriving with spouse.

[Black arab]

On 8/27/2019 at 10:03 PM, SteveK said:

Why is it that bank statements are acceptable at embassies such as Savannakhet, but at the airport they insist on cash? That's Thai logic. Make things as incomprehensible as possible and maybe they can keep out all those pesky foreigners who want to come in and spend shed-loads of money. Sometimes I think it's a language problem. Thai is so imprecise that even Thai people can have conversations and walk away not knowing what has been said, as happens many times with my wife. Watch the FCCT video on TM30 on YouTube. The senior Thai generals don't even understand the questions. Their answers are unintelligible garbage, after 2 hours nobody has learned anything, Thailand in a nutshell. Nobody knows what is going on, even the people who make the rules.

 

They keep saying that they want to keep bad guys out, but all TM30 does is register an address which almost certainly would be fake for a criminal anyway. I always used to doubt the quotes about Thai IQ but now I believe it. They have no idea how to administer their country. There are many ways of finding criminals, inventing moronic pieces of paper one after another is not the way to do it, but don't tell them that because they think they are really smart despite no other country on the planet using such pathetic measures,

 

I love Thailand and Thai people. But I just cannot understand how on Earth such a large country can be run by people like these. Within a few years tourism is going to be dead. Who is going to come here with the outrageous corruption and xenophobia? I haven't even got into the fact that the artificially high baht makes Thailand more expensive than almost any other holiday destination in the world. Any ex-pats who still have a functioning brain will be moving to a neighboring country and taking their money with them. And good for them because Thailand doesn't want foreigners. Vietnam and Philippines will give you a lot more respect, if you can move there then you can look back at Thailand as it rots from the inside out.

I  watched this video of the fcct, and unfortunately your summation is spot on . The immigration bosses couldnt make head or tale of a question asked, it was embarrassing.

[Penefattore]

On 8/28/2019 at 8:31 PM, tranquilogringo said:

 long-stay expats many of whom support Thai wives/girlfriends and their Thai children.

just leave the country and abandon them.

We must learn to treat Thai people the same way they treat us.

[emptypockets]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 11:54 AM, digger70 said:

It 's not same  as a bond ,we can't  use  any of the 800 K for 5 months and for 7 months can only use 400K . what I was saying if one has a emergency one couldn't use any of the money in said period of time Don't have a Landlord, we own the the land and the house we build.  

I know what you are saying. The money remains yours but not accessible except for the 400k to spend and top up before the next extension application, unless you decide to leave and the full amount can be taken. 

If I was in the situation of needing emergency funding I would not hesitate to use the whole 800k.It would mean restarting the visa process again but that's a minor thing compared to, say, a life threatening medical situation that I might not survive anyway in which case the visa/extension qualification is irrelevant.

Realistically some people whinge for the sake of whinging.

 

It all comes down to one simple question.

Can I afford to live here with the financial conditions in place?

Unfortunately some people are answering yes when their answer should be no. 

I doubt things will become easier for them, most likely a lot worse.

Might be time to make the hard decisions now if they are still in a position to do so.

Edited September 6, 2019 by emptypockets

[fhickson]

On 8/31/2019 at 9:35 AM, Nowisee said:

The obvious reason why thai immigration only accepts 800k in a thai bank is because of incompetence.  The inability of thai immigration staff to read and understand a pension document or bank statement from the applicants home country.
The proof of that is each person applying for the OA visa in home country shows these very documents to the thai consulate in that country and it's approved, no 800k required in a thai bank.
Also, the fact that immigration accepted a affidavit from the various embassies.  

 

The defenders that say it's a bond, surety or to cover living expenses are just wrong.  The 5 month holding period and the 7 month 400k restriction prove that AND if you tap into any of that prematurely, you have violated the extension.  As does the fact that you can go home, get a new OA visa that is valid for 2 years and does not require money in a thai bank. 

 

The defenders that say those that complain about putting money in thai bank obviously don't have the money is nonsense.  
People that are smart with their finances know that putting 800k in a bank here creates issues when you want to liquidate that money and repatriate it back to farangland.  Not too mention unfavorable exchange rates and transfer fees.  Living here using credit cards, debit cards and occasional ATM pulls is easily accomplished by many.  

The other obvious signal is that you can pay an agent and not have to put money in the bank. 



 

it also opens up the possibility of having the assets frozen due to legal or property dispute in a country where you have little rights. some examples could be a road accident and court freezes your account for payment or a girlfriend shooting the bull over a land/house matter.

 

money is safer in your home country and i sleep better that way.