UK election must not delay Brexit from October 31 - Javid

[Bluespunk]

43 minutes ago, kingdong said:

It was you and remained rabble including pm May who prevented any deal being made.

Just not true. 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

If every Tory MP had voted for the deal, it would have passed. We would have been out in March.

 

Absolutely no point in blaming anyone else for the delays. The deflection has worn thin. Facts are facts, as remainers have been trying to tell Brexiteers for nearly 4 years now. When will you start listening?

If some of Labour had voted for Mays deal, we would be out, so again you don't have a point other than to blame everybody else but the people responsible.

[StreetCowboy]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

I notice you use the word "normally" I don't think there is anything normal about this parliament, suffice to say there is more to the failure of Mrs May to get her deal through parliament than blaming 20 members of the ERG. Would you agree?

No.

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

If some of Labour had voted for Mays deal, we would be out, so again you don't have a point other than to blame everybody else but the people responsible.

The onus was on the Tory party to vote for their own leader's proposal. Sorry that you're still in denial but the blame lies with May's own MPs.

[beautifulthailand99]

The election is coming time to stop past wars and look to the future and then accept the result for the good of the country. 

 

• Opposition leaders today agreed to vote against or abstain when PM triggers election vote on Monday
• They want a Brexit delay agreed before voting for a snap poll, meaning an election in November is probable 
• Without their support Boris Johnson is unlikely to secure the two thirds support he needs for October 15 poll 
• Mr Johnson today declined to rule out the possibility of resigning if he fails to deliver Brexit by Halloween 
• New survey shows the major danger for Mr Johnson if an early general election happens after October 31
• Conservative Party is polling at 37% for pre-October 31 election but just 28% for post-October 31 election
• Majority of lost Tory support in the second scenario goes to the Brexit Party, sparking renewed calls for pact 
• Survey shows how important it is for the Prime Minister to force an early election before Brexit deadline 
• Came amid growing anger over Mr Johnson's use of police officers as the backdrop for 'political stunt' speech

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7435249/Jeremy-Corbyns-rebel-alliance-AGREES-deal-block-election-week-delay-Brexit.html

 

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

The onus was on the Tory party to vote for their own leader's proposal. Sorry that you're still in denial but the blame lies with May's own MPs.

Comprehension never been your strong point has it, in most peoples opinion Labour were instructed under no circumstance to vote for Mays deal, if they had another chance they would jump at the chance. But playing politics with our future at stake was not a good choice for Corbyn, he will now pay the price.

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Comprehension never been your strong point has it, in most peoples opinion Labour were instructed under no circumstance to vote for Mays deal, if they had another chance they would jump at the chance. But playing politics with our future at stake was not a good choice for Corbyn, he will now pay the price.

You mean get the poisoned chalice as the next Prime Minister? I'm guessing that is why he is so anxious to avoid an election - the likelihood that Labour would win.  Let those who campaigned for Brexit deliver it, or die trying, as Boris has offered to do, and by October 31st to boot.  Good job, Boris!

[beautifulthailand99]

17 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

Excuse me,  but has anyone  seen this chaps plot,  he appears to have lost it... 

Drunk on the scent victory after a long battle - I should calm down but nearly four years of seeing my country brought to the brink by lies, chancers and and an utterly pointless 'war' has taken it's toll. And get off this forum and onto the campaign on the ground to help evict this Tory shambles from the corridors of power in the coming election. 

 

This is an excellent summation of recent events and what might happen in the coming election. 

 

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/09/johnson-bulldozes-britain-deeper-into.html

[DannyCarlton]

49 minutes ago, vogie said:

Comprehension never been your strong point has it, in most peoples opinion Labour were instructed under no circumstance to vote for Mays deal, if they had another chance they would jump at the chance. But playing politics with our future at stake was not a good choice for Corbyn, he will now pay the price.

Comprehension clearly isn't your strong point. I'll try again. If every Tory MP had done as they were instructed and voted for May's deal, it would have passed first time and we would have left the EU in March.

 

No point in blaming MPs from any other party, they didn't come under the Tory whip.

 

I think your argument is the weakest piece of deflection I've ever seen from a Brexiteer....and I've seen a lot!

[joecoolfrog]

9 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Comprehension clearly isn't your strong point. I'll try again. If every Tory MP had done as they were instructed and voted for May's deal, it would have passed first time and we would have left the EU in March.

 

No point in blaming MPs from any other party, they didn't come under the Tory whip.

 

I think your argument is the weakest piece of deflection I've ever seen from a Brexiteer....and I've seen a lot!

At the risk of being smug , I warned rabid Brexiters to be careful of what they wished for. In snubbing and humiliating mrs May they threw away Brexit , nice work guys.

[beautifulthailand99]

And now he pees off the Police.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Comprehension clearly isn't your strong point. I'll try again. If every Tory MP had done as they were instructed and voted for May's deal, it would have passed first time and we would have left the EU in March.

 

No point in blaming MPs from any other party, they didn't come under the Tory whip.

 

I think your argument is the weakest piece of deflection I've ever seen from a Brexiteer....and I've seen a lot!

There is no deflection, you have been rumbled, you cannot face facts. 

 

Why shouldn't Labour MPs take responsibility, a lot now wished they had, Stephen Kinnock was running around parliament at the end trying to muster up support for Mays deal, if Labour MPs had shown a little more interest in Mays deal instead of trying to usurp the Tories the country would not be in the position it is in today.

Can I just add I am glad the Labour Party didn't support Mays deal as it was the worst deal in history.

And if you want to continue being obstropolous and argue for argueing sake, I've had enough of it for tonight.

[joecoolfrog]

52 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Drunk on the scent victory after a long battle - I should calm down but nearly four years of seeing my country brought to the brink by lies, chancers and and an utterly pointless 'war' has taken it's toll. And get off this forum and onto the campaign on the ground to help evict this Tory shambles from the corridors of power in the coming election. 

 

This is an excellent summation of recent events and what might happen in the coming election. 

 

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/09/johnson-bulldozes-britain-deeper-into.html

The blog has a clear anti tory bias but never the less makes some salient points. The author nails it when he describes the ambiguity of Brexit as the huge problem all along.

After all Mrs May's deal delivered Brexit but it was too soft for some and far too hard for others.

What is not in doubt is that a no deal Brexit is not acceptable to a large majority of voters and would have been rejected in a specific referendum.

So no more talk of traitors and being undemocratic , that has been shown to be a double edged sword .

We need to move on collectively , the last 3 years have already been wasted , time to draw a line , those that wont may fester and wither.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Check the polls , a considerable majority of the electorate is AGAINST no deal , you are either misinformed or delusional.

Do you believe and trust EVERY poll that comes out irrespective of whether it is in your favour or not?

 

I gave up believing in poll results years ago. If you want any answer, pro or con, you need to come up with the result that you want first, frame the questions to the answer  you want, and then find your pollsters.

 

 

2 hours ago, kingdong said:

Sorry wrong post, again.

 

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Absolute rubbish , a complete and utter fabrication. It was the Tory Brexiters ( Euro reform group ) who voted down Mrs Mays deal , basicly because they wanted no deal.

Its a matter of public record and some of us warned that it might mean the end of Brexit. If you want to appoint  blame then examine the evidence , dont simply lie in order to confirm your bias.

Do you mean to say that all of these members of the ERG managed to change the course of the government? All 7 of them?

 

The ERG has been going since 1993.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Research_Group

 

Who are members of the ERG?
Structure
Sir Michael Spicer (1994–2001)
David Heathcoat-Amory (2001–2010)
Chris Heaton-Harris (2010–2016)
Steve Baker (2016–2017)
Suella Braverman (2017–2018)
Jacob Rees-Mogg (2018–2019)
Steve Baker (2019-)

 

 

 

 

[Bluespunk]

28 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

And now he pees off the Police.

Boris Johnson police speech: Chief criticises PM's use of officers https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-49605966

 

[cleopatra2]

11 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Do you mean to say that all of these members of the ERG managed to change the course of the government? All 7 of them?

 

The ERG has been going since 1993.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Research_Group

 

Who are members of the ERG?
Structure
Sir Michael Spicer (1994–2001)
David Heathcoat-Amory (2001–2010)
Chris Heaton-Harris (2010–2016)
Steve Baker (2016–2017)
Suella Braverman (2017–2018)
Jacob Rees-Mogg (2018–2019)
Steve Baker (2019-)

 

 

 

 

There is over 50 known members of the ERG

[joecoolfrog]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Do you believe and trust EVERY poll that comes out irrespective of whether it is in your favour or not?

 

I gave up believing in poll results years ago. If you want any answer, pro or con, you need to come up with the result that you want first, frame the questions to the answer  you want, and then find your pollsters.

 

 

 

 

Just as with the media , one has to read between the lines and ignore any blatant bias. No poll has suggested majority support for no deal and the comprehensive , transparent poll by the strongly Tory , brexit supporting , Daily Mail showed no deal to be extremely unpopular. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary is to logical to accept what is presented.

Have you anything , other than personal desire, that shows the contrary to be true.

I have always supported Brexit ( not that I agreed with it ) but because I felt the referendum should be honoured.

I cannot support a no deal though as I dont think there ever was , or is , a mandate for such.

[joecoolfrog]

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Do you mean to say that all of these members of the ERG managed to change the course of the government? All 7 of them?

 

The ERG has been going since 1993.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Research_Group

 

Who are members of the ERG?
Structure
Sir Michael Spicer (1994–2001)
David Heathcoat-Amory (2001–2010)
Chris Heaton-Harris (2010–2016)
Steve Baker (2016–2017)
Suella Braverman (2017–2018)
Jacob Rees-Mogg (2018–2019)
Steve Baker (2019-)

 

 

 

 

Bill you know very well that you are simply being pedantic , there were a number of MPs allied to the group.

Water under the bridge now , they gambled for a ( supposedly ) better deal , they lost.

When Mrs May's deal was voted down I said that the Brexiters would never accept blame if it all went tits up , seems im psychic, must start playing the lotto.

[joecoolfrog]

14 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

There is over 50 known members of the ERG

I dont know the number of actual members but there are a considerable number of MPs who support them. Im afraid the blame game has began , everybodies fault but ours syndrome !

[beautifulthailand99]

Interesting article by Robert Peston pondering whether Johnston would break the law to fulfil his 'promise' to die in a ditch. 

It seems extraordinary that senior Tory MPs tell me that a serving prime minister should break the law, rather than break a promise that under no circumstances would he fail to take the UK out of the EU by October 31.The choice is between keeping his word or disobeying the law of the land.

"He can't sign the letter" said a Tory grandee and former Cabinet minister."He has to precipitate a very real constitutional crisis".

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-05/will-boris-johnson-goad-mps-to-impeach-him-by-refusing-to-ask-eu-for-brexit-delay/

[cleopatra2]

7 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Interesting article by Robert Peston pondering whether Johnston would break the law to fulfil his 'promise' to die in a ditch. 

It seems extraordinary that senior Tory MPs tell me that a serving prime minister should break the law, rather than break a promise that under no circumstances would he fail to take the UK out of the EU by October 31.The choice is between keeping his word or disobeying the law of the land.

"He can't sign the letter" said a Tory grandee and former Cabinet minister."He has to precipitate a very real constitutional crisis".

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-05/will-boris-johnson-goad-mps-to-impeach-him-by-refusing-to-ask-eu-for-brexit-delay/

There would be no constitutional crisis. There would be no legal question to ask.

Simply the PM would be breaking the law. The PM is not above the law and a court order would instruct the PM to follow the law.

The crisis would be with the government as it would grind to halt due to the civil service being lawfully unable to support the PM in such a sutuation

[SheungWan]

Because they were Remainer MP's who lied to their leave constitutes and got elected then went straight back to remainer mode. Their consstituants demanded them to resign but they have no morals. We need new laws in the UK that when you change your mandate you resign and hold a bi election and when you get kicked out your party or leave then there is a bi election called. These MP's know they now stand no chance of re-election now. I personally think they thought Boris would not make good on his threat and call an election. They were wrong. Its going to be a landslide victory for the Brexot party and the leave MP's. The people are very angry. 

The Brexot Party.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The Brexot Party.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The grammar police party.

[bangrak]

Mr Javid, allow me, nothing racial about this, neither about colour of skin, you being a perfect example of the 'integration model' Britain has followed, for the individuals coming from its former colonies.

You are not supposed of having had any ancestor present, then, in Hastings, nor any depicted on some old precious tapestry.

But, with all your exquisite education and wide experience, now that you have been entrusted with the key to the throve, may I ask whether you have been able to make time, you hopefully were able to want to, to make a deep dive into the past, and learn about what Britain was made of through the past centuries, what had made it great, and where its demise finds it sources, in an honest, un-influenced, and un-prejudiced way?

Did you, have you? Or are you just another of those sticky, short time, chewing gum bubbles, financial make-fast-money-please-the-shareholders-f.ck-the working-class kind of guys the City have thousands of? Or another self-centered political blown-up career-maker? I hope not.

I didn't have the 'opportunity' to read a lot about the shape of your backbone, where you stand for, and how you could make use of the British taxpayers' money in a good, a better, way.

Could you please ask BoJo, his DC brain, and that old-regime lost-diva-on-a-couch, to make some room for your communication, no doubt the people, and not only in the UK, would be interested to learn more about your person, as money matters, in the end, for all of us coughing it up?

[beautifulthailand99]

 

[baboon]

43 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

Danny Carlton may not know but the thousands surveyed since do - let google be your friend. 

 

There is no appetite for the unfolding carnage - democracy in action.

 

As for the Corbyn comment - come on seriously ? - Corbyn has the keys to No 10 and has locked Bojo in - if you can’t see that you’re out of your depth here.

 

33 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

The poll tax riots were enacted by people that thought hang on I might actually have to pay my way here!! Not having that 

 

There will be zero riots over Brexit - nothing - for sure it might be an opportune moment for a few Facebook aided professional looters to grab a free PS4 in Oxford Street, but everyone will be back at work on Monday grateful their job is no longer under threat from the Brexit madness. 

 

 

Another poster (or the same one) setting people against one another for his / her own amusement. 

[bangrak]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

There is no deflection, you have been rumbled, you cannot face facts. 

 

Why shouldn't Labour MPs take responsibility, a lot now wished they had, Stephen Kinnock was running around parliament at the end trying to muster up support for Mays deal, if Labour MPs had shown a little more interest in Mays deal instead of trying to usurp the Tories the country would not be in the position it is in today.

Can I just add I am glad the Labour Party didn't support Mays deal as it was the worst deal in history.

And if you want to continue being obstropolous and argue for argueing sake, I've had enough of it for tonight.

Please, 'vogie', do stop writing about 'deflection', being 'rumbled', not being able to 'face facts'! When these, together with insultant trash being thrown at people having an opinion of their own(!), different from some rattlers' acquired one, would be prohibited, at last on TV, I guess you would be among the first ones we would be delivered of here!

[beautifulthailand99]

.

[Thairealist]

4 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

Normally, the Opposition oppose the Government, but, with a majority, such opposition supports debate but no more.  Unless your party is riddled with back-stabbing traitors who have no interest in supporting their party in government.  Corbyn could not stop Brexit.  the LDP could not stop Brexit, nor could the SNP.  But Boris and his mates did.  Good job, Boris.

 

 

What I find amazing, is that you think the votes of 432 civil servants in the guise of M.P,s are more important than the votes of 17,400,000+ citizens of your own country.