Delay Brexit? I'd rather be dead in a ditch, says PM Johnson

[Forethat]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

Well Boris went for a walkabout in Yorkshire yesterday and got short shift from the people there.  He was booed comprehensively and let's not forget the hashtag "Please leave my town".

And Sadiq Khan was booed, heckled, criticised, spat at and ridiculed on a walk in London yesterday. Does that mean Londoners are thinking "Please leave my town"? And how did they vote in the EU referendum?

 

The logical thinking some people are capable of... 

[dunroaming]

27 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 A well thought out and presented post.

 

But I do take issue with your final sentence.

 

Boris was interviewed by the BBC whilst on his Leeds walkabout yesterday and he kept on saying that a General Election would let the people decide.

 

But will it?

 

Whilst people often make protest votes in local elections, by elections and European Parliament elections, when it comes to a General Election most voters remain loyal to their choden party; regardless. My own constituency is a prime example of ghise; we voted remain but have a Brexiteer MP. I can guarantee that despite this in any GE he will win; the Tories could put a donkey up here, and it would win! Most constituencies are the same; safe seats. So in a GE the fate of the country would, as it always has, rest on the marginals.

 

In addition, there is also the probability that the Leave vote will be split between Leave candidates and the same for the Remain vote.

 

However, I do actually agree with Boris on his general point; the people should decide. It's how we make that decision I don't agree with. The way to give us that choice is simple; a final, legally binding referendum.

I also live in a hard core Tory area having the cretin Raab as the local MP.  And we were 80% remain, something Raab totally ignores and only pursues his own ambitions.  But it would be hard for people here to vote for anything other than Conservative.  And I completely agree with your point.  However Johnson removes the whip from 21/22? They have no majority now and in these crazy times anything can happen.

 

A General Election is not just about Brexit and doesn't really solve the issue anyway

[DannyCarlton]

22 minutes ago, Forethat said:

More super gonorrhea outbreaks, eeh..!? Or breadlines...? That's what I call proper arguments, no porkies there...

Neither which have been suggested by anyone but you (not for the first time). Are you employed by AIQ?

[Thairealist]

31 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 A well thought out and presented post.

 

But I do take issue with your final sentence.

 

Boris was interviewed by the BBC whilst on his Leeds walkabout yesterday and he kept on saying that a General Election would let the people decide.

 

But will it?

 

Whilst people often make protest votes in local elections, by elections and European Parliament elections, when it comes to a General Election most voters remain loyal to their choden party; regardless. My own constituency is a prime example of ghise; we voted remain but have a Brexiteer MP. I can guarantee that despite this in any GE he will win; the Tories could put a donkey up here, and it would win! Most constituencies are the same; safe seats. So in a GE the fate of the country would, as it always has, rest on the marginals.

 

In addition, there is also the probability that the Leave vote will be split between Leave candidates and the same for the Remain vote.

 

However, I do actually agree with Boris on his general point; the people should decide. It's how we make that decision I don't agree with. The way to give us that choice is simple; a final, legally binding referendum.

 

Correct, and I would like to add that in many constituencies in the north, you can put a red rosette on a donkey, and the tradition Labour supporters will vote for it. But that has now changed, with many traditional Labour voters starting to become aware of the fact that Labour is now a anti workers party. An example being Grimsby, a constituency that since the war has repeatedly returned a Labour M.P. To Parliament. Yet in the northern media yesterday, it was reported by a remain backing newspaper, that the vast majority of the voters are now seriously contemplating switching their vote to the Brexit party. Hopefully we will find out if our lords and masters finally allow the people to vote in a G.E.  Unfortunately I think not.

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Well Boris went for a walkabout in Yorkshire yesterday and got short shift from the people there.  He was booed comprehensively and let's not forget the hashtag "Please leave my town".

 He has also been criticised for his using police cadets as a background to what was billed as a speech about police recruitment but turned out to be a speech about Brexit!

 

West Yorkshire Police boss demands answers from Chief Constable after Prime Minister Boris Johnson's visit

Quote

The Police and Crime Commissioner said for the Prime Minister to use trainee police officers as "the backdrop to what became a political speech was totally inappropriate".

He added that the officers and West Yorkshire Police "should not have been put in that position" and has demanded a full explanation from the Chief Constable about what happened on Thursday.

 

 

 

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Not really.  Calling a snap election was Johnson's only chance of wrestling back control.  Tony Blair (yes I hate him too) identified, along with many others that it was a trap and although I think Corbyn would have fallen for it, those around him and those in other parties saw it for what it was.  So we will have a general election as soon as no-deal is safely put to bed.  But Boris won't decide when it is.  The only way forward for Labour is with a general election but even then I don't think they will win one with Corbyn at the helm. 

The sooner we get a functioning parliament the better, if parliament was a horse, you would put it out of its misery and shoot it. Putting off a GE is helping no-one, let us see what the electorate think of these duplicitious MPs who don't give a fig about the outcome of the referendum. Only letting the public vote will solve this conundrum that is parliament.

[Forethat]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Neither which have been suggested by anyone but you (not for the first time). Are you employed by AIQ?

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/disease-warning-std-brexit-sex-16873890

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-could-lead-to-spread-of-infectious-diseases-such-as-supergonorrhoea-health-chief-warns-a3898186.html

https://metro.co.uk/2018/06/13/britain-will-mangy-old-lion-will-struggle-super-gonorrhoea-brexit-7627749/

 

Enjoy!

 

 

[7by7]

16 minutes ago, Thairealist said:

<snip>

I have to point out, that if those who had lost the people’s dDemocratic vote in 2016, had accepted and respected the result, then perhaps we would not be in the mess we now find ourselves in. 

 Most Remainers, like myself, did accept the result.

 

It was only after Rees-Mogg with his ERG and other rebels put personal ambition above the country's interests that we started to call for we, the people, to be allowed to make the final decision because Parliament wouldn't.

 

Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg is estimated to have earnt £7m from investments since the referendum according to investigation by Channel 4 Dispatches. 

 

It's not just Rees-Mogg, of course. Lot's of other prominent Brexiteers named in that and similar investigations are trousering large amounts due to the confusions over and delays of Brexit caused by those who defeated May's deal.

 

A coincidence?

[DannyCarlton]

49 minutes ago, vogie said:

Of course Boris is desperate for one just like Corbyn has been desperate for one for the last 3 years. Now Corbyn now being presented with an opportunity to have one, he has said no, why has he said no, one can only assume he knows he will not win and is scared. Parliament is not functioning, it is going nowhere and only a GE will sort out the impasse that we are at. Ignoring it is costing the country 1 billion pounds a month, Corbyn should not be putting of the inevitable.

It's clear to anyone with half a brain that Johnson wants an election before October 15th as a last ditch attempt to engineer a no deal Brexit before the end of October. Remaining in Europe after this date is political suicide for him. Why would Corbyn, SNP, LibDems accede to this? They will call an election after November 1st, when any threat of a no deal Brexit has dissappeared. Not cowardice, just using a bit of nouse for once.

 

As others have said, a GE is fought on many fronts by many parties. To force a one issue GE on the British people would not only be undemocratic but not a great way to sort out Brexit. By far the most democratic and final solution to this debacle would be a confirmatory vote that has a legally bindinf clause in the act. Up for it?

 

AS I've posed answers that you are unable to repost with reasoned argument, I await your usual Brexit rhetoric in reply.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Of course Boris is desperate for one just like Corbyn has been desperate for one for the last 3 years. Now Corbyn now being presented with an opportunity to have one, he has said no, why has he said no, one can only assume he knows he will not win and is scared. Parliament is not functioning, it is going nowhere and only a GE will sort out the impasse that we are at. Ignoring it is costing the country 1 billion pounds a month, Corbyn should not be putting of the inevitable.

Nope. 

 

He clearly said no election until the bill preventing a “no deal” is in place. 

 

Let johnson ask after October 31st is past and an extension in place.

 

See what happens then. 

[7by7]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

The sooner we get a functioning parliament the better, if parliament was a horse, you would put it out of its misery and shoot it. Putting off a GE is helping no-one, let us see what the electorate think of these duplicitious MPs who don't give a fig about the outcome of the referendum. Only letting the public vote will solve this conundrum that is parliament.

 Indeed, only letting the public vote will solve the situation.

 

Letting us vote in a legally binding referendum.

 

It may, though, take a GE with the Tories losing for that to happen because the majority of Brexiteers are against it; for the obvious reason.

[DannyCarlton]

7 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Let johnson ask after October 31st is past. See what happens then. 

Probably going to be speechless after today. Rumour has it that he's just fired Dominic Cummings.

[dunroaming]

37 minutes ago, Thairealist said:

 Agree with much of what you say, although I have to point out, that if those who had lost the people’s dDemocratic vote in 2016, had accepted and respected the result, then perhaps we would not be in the mess we now find ourselves in. 

 Your suggestion to give the British people an opportunity to go forward, by means of a G.E. Is all very fine and well. And that is what Corbyn has been asking for and advocating for the last 3 yrs, including 0n 50 occasion this very year. But will he and the Labour Party stand behind their demand, or will they chicken out.

Valid points but looking at it another way, if the Brexit campaigners delivered on what they pledged at the time then we would have been out of the EU by now with a stonking, easy deal.  Problem was they promised what was not possible to deliver and so here we are. 

 

 

[Thairealist]

8 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Probably going to be speechless after today. Rumour has it that he's just fired Dominic Cummings.

 

 

 Link please,or is this another case on fake news.

 

Meanwhile the P.M of the Irish republic, has now acknowledged that the backstop is after all not necessary.

 

Bin the backstop THEN! Varadkar says checks can be carried out away from the border

LEO VARADKAR last night cast fresh doubt on the controversial Northern Ireland backstop after he claimed Dublin and Brussels are working on implementing customs checks “near the border” in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

It's clear to anyone with half a brain that Johnson wants an election before October 15th as a last ditch attempt to engineer a no deal Brexit before the end of October. Remaining in Europe after this date is political suicide for him. Why would Corbyn, SNP, LibDems accede to this? They will call an election after November 1st, when any threat of a no deal Brexit has dissappeared. Not cowardice, just using a bit of nouse for once.

 

As others have said, a GE is fought on many fronts by many parties. To force a one issue GE on the British people would not only be undemocratic but not a great way to sort out Brexit. By far the most democratic and final solution to this debacle would be a confirmatory vote that has a legally bindinf clause in the act. Up for it?

 

AS I've posed answers that you are unable to repost with reasoned argument, I await your usual Brexit rhetoric in reply.

And a blind dog in a darkened room can see that putting off the inevitable is wasting the countrys time, Labour are going to lose whether tomorrow or in November, why don't they think of the country for once, they are cowards, if the Tories can't get a GE untill November, they will still win and take us out of the EU.

 

As for your insistence of bringing up the "confirmatory vote, it has been explained to you umpteen times that it would not be honoured, it would be ignored, it would be tossed in the bin like a piece of screwed up A4 paper, political parties have no interest in getting the wrong answer, as proven. If you fail to take it on board this time your comprehension skills must be very low, or you are deliberately confusing yourself.

 

As for your comment of "anybody with half a brain," well it just wouldn't be you without throwing your obligitory insult in, now would it.

[Thairealist]

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Valid points but looking at it another way, if the Brexit campaigners delivered on what they pledged at the time then we would have been out of the EU by now with a stonking, easy deal.  Problem was they promised what was not possible to deliver and so here we are. 

 

 

 

 So why has it not been easy to implement the British electorates decision? could it be because the negotiations where under the control of Remainer T.May along with P.Hammond with Ollie Robbins giving instructions.

[sammieuk1]

5 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Probably going to be speechless after today. Rumour has it that he's just fired Dominic Cummings.

Cant take it away he is a gluten for punishment he is in Scotland today trying to buy off farmers so he may end up in a haggis or a ditch by the end of the day????

[7by7]

Just now, Thairealist said:

I’m sure it was an honest omission on your part???? in forgetting to mention that the police commissioner for West Yorkshire, Mark Burns- Williamson is a Labour politician.

 

Dear, oh dear; is that the best you can come up with!

 

Anyone with half a brain could tell Mr Burns-Williamson's politics from reading the article, and those who didn't but wanted to make a desperate point could have Googled him.

 

They would then have discovered that he has worked with the police for 20 years and that work earned him an OBE in 2012!

Quote

 he became a member of West Yorkshire Police Authority in 1999 and chair of the authority in June 2003. After joining the board of the Association of Police Authorities in 2003, he was made the board's deputy chair in 2009 and in October 2011 he was elected chair of the Association of Police Authorities.^[4]

Burns-Williamson was appointed an OBE for services to the Community and Policing in the 2012 Honours List.^[5]

(Source)

 

[7by7]

7 minutes ago, Thairealist said:

 

 

 Link please,or is this another case on fake news.

 

Meanwhile the P.M of the Irish republic, has now acknowledged that the backstop is after all not necessary.

 

Bin the backstop THEN! Varadkar says checks can be carried out away from the border

LEO VARADKAR last night cast fresh doubt on the controversial Northern Ireland backstop after he claimed Dublin and Brussels are working on implementing customs checks “near the border” in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

 You ask another poster for a link, but don't provide one yourself!

[Forethat]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

Valid points but looking at it another way, if the Brexit campaigners delivered on what they pledged at the time then we would have been out of the EU by now with a stonking, easy deal.  Problem was they promised what was not possible to deliver and so here we are. 

 

 

Personally, I think the main reason we're in this mess is because the EU Commission quickly realised that a group of people in the UK refused to accept democratic principles, and that they should use this group as leverage in the negotiations. Why would you accept conditions that aren't set? If they had honestly believed that UK WOULD leave, the outcome of the negotiations would have been completely different. I am also confident there WOULD have been a deal at the end of the tunnel BEFORE Oct 31 hadn't Corbyn along with a bunch of fifth columnists chickened out. 

 

I have to give it to the EU though; in terms of business strategy and negotiations, they have played UK like a banjo, 

[7by7]

5 minutes ago, Thairealist said:

So why has it not been easy to implement the British electorates decision? could it be because the negotiations where under the control of Remainer T.May along with P.Hammond with Ollie Robbins giving instructions.

 The 2016 referendum result would have been implemented last March had Rees-Mogg, his ERG and others not put their own interests ahead of the country's and blocked it.

 

Even now, Parliament can't decide.

 

Do you honestly believe that the situation will be any different if Boris gets his election?

 

Let we, the people, decide in a final, binding referendum.

[DannyCarlton]

12 minutes ago, Thairealist said:

Link please,or is this another case on fake news.

Just remember, you heard it here first. Don't worry, I'll remind you when it becomes official. 555

[bangrak]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Of course Boris is desperate for one just like Corbyn has been desperate for one for the last 3 years. Now Corbyn now being presented with an opportunity to have one, he has said no, why has he said no, one can only assume he knows he will not win and is scared. Parliament is not functioning, it is going nowhere and only a GE will sort out the impasse that we are at. Ignoring it is costing the country 1 billion pounds a month, Corbyn should not be putting of the inevitable.

Aah, one of the most despicable LIES from the 'leave' camp, that FAKE amount per week on the side of a red campaign bus, here repeated by Brexiteer 'vogie', in its new 'formulation' of '1 billion pounds a month' eructed in front of the MPs, ...and media present, in Parliament, by 'PM' BoJo himself! Are there no rules in Parliament to counter members using blatant lies? No law repressing 'Fake News' in Britain? When there are, it is high time they would be used against this PM, and MP, caricature!

[3NUMBAS]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/9874014/france-deal-extension-remainer-mp/

 

FRANCE has warned Remainer MPs the EU won’t automatically grant another Brexit extension just to help them stop No Deal.

Emmanuel Macron’s Europe minister Amelie de Montchalin questioned why the bloc would agree to a further delay “without changing anything

 

Describing the situation in Westminster as a “bit blocked”, she said: “When I hear the British saying ‘give us three months more and we will solve the problem’, we can see that another six months would not solve the problem, nor another three months.

"They have to be able to tell us what they want. We know what they don’t want but we are still struggling to understand what they do want.”

[Forethat]

17 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Just remember, you heard it here first. Don't worry, I'll remind you when it becomes official. 555

if I understand your drivel correctly, you've read (well, probably not 'read' but at least skimmed through the headline) the Reuters article published last night in which John Major in a quote urges Boris Johnson to sack Cummings. 

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-major/former-pm-major-calls-on-johnson-to-fire-top-advisor-cummings-idUKKCN1VQ2FH

[beautifulthailand99]

25 minutes ago, vogie said:

And a blind dog in a darkened room can see that putting off the inevitable is wasting the countrys time, Labour are going to lose whether tomorrow or in November, why don't they think of the country for once, they are cowards, if the Tories can't get a GE untill November, they will still win and take us out of the EU.

 

As for your insistence of bringing up the "confirmatory vote, it has been explained to you umpteen times that it would not be honoured, it would be ignored, it would be tossed in the bin like a piece of screwed up A4 paper, political parties have no interest in getting the wrong answer, as proven. If you fail to take it on board this time your comprehension skills must be very low, or you are deliberately confusing yourself.

 

As for your comment of "anybody with half a brain," well it just wouldn't be you without throwing your obligitory insult in, now would it.

You and your Brexit Party pals led by the Great Liar Farage are going to give Corbyn the keys to No 10. And this was before the ongoing Johnson car crash. 

 

Election Maps UK

@ElectionMapsUK

 

Westminster Voting Intention:

 

If Election BEFORE 31st Oct: CON: 37% LAB: 30% BXP: 9%

If Election AFTER 31st Oct: CON: 28% LAB: 28% BXP: 18%

 

Via @ICMResearch

. (These are the only figures available right now).

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, 3NUMBAS said:

"They have to be able to tell us what they want. We know what they don’t want but we are still struggling to understand what they do want.”

I feel your pain, it's the same on Thai Visa.

[DannyCarlton]

3 minutes ago, Forethat said:

if I understand your drivel correctly, you've read (well, probably not 'read' but at least skimmed through the headline) the Reuters article published last night in which John Major in a quote urges Boris Johnson to sack Cummings. 

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-major/former-pm-major-calls-on-johnson-to-fire-top-advisor-cummings-idUKKCN1VQ2FH

Nope. You're not often right but you're wrong again.

[evadgib]

All that is achieved on these 'word-in-sideways' threads is the stifling of all things Brexit in exactly the same way that Bercow & Co has enabled in Parliament. 

 

Soros (funder of Miller) is said to have at least 79 (so far identified) professional trolls on his payroll. Some of the more prolific posters to these threads fit that profile....

 

Do they think Joe Public can't see what's going on?

[Forethat]

20 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Nope. You're not often right but you're wrong again.

It'd be a lot easier if there was someone on here who could confirm if there is any substance in your flapdoodle regarding Cummings. Someone who worked at Parliament Square and was right in the middle of it? Then we could ask him if there are any rumours of BJ sacking DC. I mean, rumours like that tend to travel rather swiftly in that environment...

 

You wouldn't happen to know someone who does?