UK PM Johnson to meet European leaders in New York in push for Brexit deal

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Do you ever wonder why we say the EU has decimated UK industry over the past 43 years? You have given one good example, of the many available. If the industry was so bad, why not just leave it there until it finally broke down? Or gradually the UK people would decide that chocolate produced by gastarbeiter on UK & US financed machinery tastes much better? 

 

European business was way ahead of the game, flush with money and willing to pay for UK businesses that turned big profits. Using the EU, those industries would be bought and transferred to cheap labour plants in the EU, and still keep supplying the massive UK markets under easy EU trade rules.

 

When we have Brexited, how long will it be before the prices of our previously locally produced national products become too expensive to import? It will be time for the UK industries to start producing for the home markets again.  

Are you seriously maintaining that labor costs are cheaper in Germany than the UK? Or maybe is the After Eight move to Germany not such a good example, after all?

[tomacht8]

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The United Nations the most undemocratic organisation in the world, followed by the EU.

 

 

First to fill any educational gaps:

The UN structure:

The General Assembly is the main deliberative, policymaking and representative organ of the UN. All 193 Member States of the UN are represented in the General Assembly, making it the only UN body with universal representation. Each year, in September, the full UN membership meets in the General Assembly Hall in New York for the annual General Assembly session, and general debate, which many heads of state attend and address. Decisions on important questions, such as those on peace and security, admission of new members and budgetary matters, require a two-thirds majority of the General Assembly. Decisions on other questions are by simple majority. The General Assembly, each year, elects a GA President to serve a one-year term of office.

 

Make u self famila with structures of:

The Security Council, Economic and Social Council, Trusteeship Council, International Court of Justice and Secretariat.

 

But please stop your uneducated, generalist platitudes of what is undemocratic, if you do not have learned about the organisations.

[sawadee1947]

7 hours ago, Loiner said:

 

 

There’s already a border there and it’s been working fine since the GFA. There’s no need and no intention for the UK to change that status quo.

Now if your EU want to impose new border infrastructure to secure its own protectionist bloc, well that’s your different pair of shoes. Republican terrorists and the EU can sort it out amongst yourselves.

Not UK’s border, not UK’s problem. Do you get that?

 

 

Sounds like you have huge mental problems. 

Who wants to leave? 

Who has to face consequences? 

Who causes problems? 

Please ask someone to explain for you. ????

[Scott]

Troll posts reported and removed. 

 

[Loiner]

34 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Sounds like you have huge mental problems. 

Who wants to leave? 

Who has to face consequences? 

Who causes problems? 

Please ask someone to explain for you. ????

Sounds like you have huge financial and sovereignty problems. 

 

Who wants a border?

Who wants to protect their trading bloc?

Who will suffer the most if trade is affected?

Who is trying to keep UK in the EU?

If the answer to any of the above is the UK, you might have a valid argument. If not, it's all your problem, sort it out with your masters in the EU. You chose to align yourself with them, now their problems are yours. Had it all explained to be long ago, does this explain things for you?  

[Loiner]

51 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Are you seriously maintaining that labor costs are cheaper in Germany than the UK? Or maybe is the After Eight move to Germany not such a good example, after all?

Did they all go to Germany? How much do they pay the Turks, or any of the recently imported Merkel's millions?

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Rubbish, 

Who sent then troopers to Belfast? 

Better you take a beer and keep quiet ????

 

The troopers were originally sent in to protect the rights of the Catholic minority which were being abused. The Catholic community originally welcomed them with tea and sandwiches!

 

Only after nationalist terrorist gangsters exploited the situation for their own agendas did things change.

 

Northern Ireland is an integral part of the UK. Policing and defending it is a UK responsibility.

 

Perhaps you'd best take your own advice!

[emptypockets]

Jeez I just wish the European Union would throw the UK out and be done with it.

Then we can get back to the TM30 threads which at least have some relevance to Thailand.

[Nigel Garvie]

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

 

 

When we have Brexited, how long will it be before the prices of our previously locally produced national products become too expensive to import? It will be time for the UK industries to start producing for the home markets again.  

You may not enjoy this Loiner, but you are sounding exactly like Jeremy Corbyn!!

He also believes that UK manufacturing is going to rise - Phoenix like - from it's current decimated state, and stand proud once again. 

Just one small problem, to do that the investment in machines, factories, infrastructure, and skills, needed to achieve this would double the national debt. More than anything else the crazy high interest rates in the 80s (Thank Maggie) destroyed our industrial base.

[DannyCarlton]

13 hours ago, evadgib said:

Something for a 'no news' day RR ????

 

You didn't mention their founder and leader Robin Tilbrook this time. Own it. A tiny group of some 2000 members, mostly made up of ex members of the National Front. Extreme right wing nationalists.

 

Happy to back that up with many links (again), if you want to debate it, Evadgib.

[sawadee1947]

14 hours ago, Loiner said:

Sounds like you have huge financial and sovereignty problems. 

 

Who wants a border?

Who wants to protect their trading bloc?

Who will suffer the most if trade is affected?

Who is trying to keep UK in the EU?

If the answer to any of the above is the UK, you might have a valid argument. If not, it's all your problem, sort it out with your masters in the EU. You chose to align yourself with them, now their problems are yours. Had it all explained to be long ago, does this explain things for you?  

Not even funny. 

 

[sawadee1947]

14 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Northern Ireland is an integral part of the UK. Policing and defending it is a UK responsibility.

You mean occupied?! 

One of the last not reunified countries in the world. It's time for a change. ????

[Loiner]

Not even funny. 
 

Not even trying to be funny. We saw through your arguments from the start. It boils down to three issues and we’re not having any of them:

EU exaggerating imaginary and manufactured border problems as leverage to prevent Brexit and ensure it’s protectionist bloc.

Ireland jumping on the EU bandwagon as it was instructed, protect its own cross-border trade volume and land routes to the EU.

Republicans playing the EU and Dublin against the UK and GFA, with threats of violence in a cynical attempt to bring unification.

[Loiner]

17 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Are you seriously maintaining that labor costs are cheaper in Germany than the UK? Or maybe is the After Eight move to Germany not such a good example, after all?

The home of After Eight is now the old Mac's factory in Halifax.

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The home of After Eight is now the old Mac's factory in Halifax.

Only for the UK market. They are manufactured in several countries across the world. If Brexit goes ahead, don't be surprised if the Halifax factory ceases production.

[Loiner]

13 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

You may not enjoy this Loiner, but you are sounding exactly like Jeremy Corbyn!!

He also believes that UK manufacturing is going to rise - Phoenix like - from it's current decimated state, and stand proud once again. 

Just one small problem, to do that the investment in machines, factories, infrastructure, and skills, needed to achieve this would double the national debt. More than anything else the crazy high interest rates in the 80s (Thank Maggie) destroyed our industrial base.

Damn right I don't enjoy sounding like Comrade Corbyn, but if it's for the best in UK, I would put up with it. 

As the prices of products change due to tariffs, so will manufacturing. Remainer wails and forecasts of economic doom are based on the current status quo with the EU, but business adapts when it is forced to do so.

I don't expect the manufacture of cheap <deleted> to suddenly boom in the UK. That went long ago and will never return, but our high end and value added manufacturing will be enticed back along with many food products. Why pay substantially more for a car or chocolate made in the EU that can easily be relocated back to UK manufacture?

[puipuitom]

18 hours ago, Loiner said:

Do you ever wonder why we say the EU has decimated UK industry over the past 43 years? You have given one good example, of the many available. If the industry was so bad, why not just leave it there until it finally broke down? Or gradually the UK people would decide that chocolate produced by gastarbeiter on UK & US financed machinery tastes much better? 

 

European business was way ahead of the game, flush with money and willing to pay for UK businesses that turned big profits. Using the EU, those industries would be bought and transferred to cheap labour plants in the EU, and still keep supplying the massive UK markets under easy EU trade rules.

 

When we have Brexited, how long will it be before the prices of our previously locally produced national products become too expensive to import? It will be time for the UK industries to start producing for the home markets again.  

You forget, British industries also bought continental companies, like British Steel the Dutch Hoogovens. Only.. thanks to the British labour laws, it is (was?) close-to-impossible to reorganise production. Result: both ended in Tata = India hands. Again, many Brexiteers cannot understand, that Tata is a stock-company, with.. stocks in hands all over the world, probably brokered by stock traders in the London City.  Same with Nestle, Unilever, Shell etc.

May I remember you the financial but especially economic situation Labour but especially the Unions brought the UK around beginning 70's : the sick man of Europe.

Brexiteers want to bring the UK back to an era, which does not exist anymore, with production scales only regional, of.. just national. Production is now global to get sufficient economics of scale ( look in your economy book, if you ever had one) 

[puipuitom]

23 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Damn right I don't enjoy sounding like Comrade Corbyn, but if it's for the best in UK, I would put up with it. 

As the prices of products change due to tariffs, so will manufacturing. Remainer wails and forecasts of economic doom are based on the current status quo with the EU, but business adapts when it is forced to do so.

I don't expect the manufacture of cheap <deleted> to suddenly boom in the UK. That went long ago and will never return, but our high end and value added manufacturing will be enticed back along with many food products. Why pay substantially more for a car or chocolate made in the EU that can easily be relocated back to UK manufacture?

First of all, the UK did already much to stay in competition with the EU by reducing the GBP from € 1,40 to now a € 1,13. Just an extra step towards € 0,80 and the UK can beat the EU import duties. Not so good for your 600+Bn trade with the EU alone as you get less for your export and must pay more for your imports, but.. that every Leave voter could have known.

Production for a LOT of items for only national consumption will have a too low economy-of-scale, with result higher production costs. 90% of the UK manufacturers will not feel that so much, but 10% might loose their jobs.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

17 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Northern Ireland is an integral part of the UK. Policing and defending it is a UK responsibility.

You mean occupied?! 

One of the last not reunified countries in the world. It's time for a change

 Part of the GFA is the Republic at last recognising the democratic right of those in Northern Ireland to determine their own future. Hence the change in the Republic's constitution to remove it's claim to Northern Ireland and instead recognise that Northern Ireland will remain part of the United Kingdom until and unless the people of both Northern Ireland and the Republic wish otherwise.

 

 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Not even trying to be funny. We saw through your arguments from the start. It boils down to three issues and we’re not having any of them:

EU exaggerating imaginary and manufactured border problems as leverage to prevent Brexit and ensure it’s protectionist bloc.

Ireland jumping on the EU bandwagon as it was instructed, protect its own cross-border trade volume and land routes to the EU.

Republicans playing the EU and Dublin against the UK and GFA, with threats of violence in a cynical attempt to bring unification.

 

Please explain how Johnson, Gove and the rest of the Leave campaign can hold to their promise of taking back control of our borders if we leave with a completely open border with the EU?

[puipuitom]

17 hours ago, Loiner said:

Sounds like you have huge financial and sovereignty problems. 

 

a) Who wants a border?  The British to have sovereignty between their borders. 

b) Who wants to protect their trading bloc? 

c) Who will suffer the most if trade is affected?

d) Who is trying to keep UK in the EU?

If the answer to any of the above is the UK, you might have a valid argument. If not, it's all your problem, sort it out with your masters in the EU. You chose to align yourself with them, now their problems are yours. Had it all explained to be long ago, does this explain things for you?  

a) I thought British to have sovereignty between their borders. But.. I presume you have no problem with whatever crosses this inter-Irish border ? Good gap to dump whatever, as from 1 Nov the UK is out of RASFF area. And relocate a few migration camps to 100 mtr away from this "border". 

b) The EU, like any normal ( Union) of nation(s) want to be able to keep certain things out, like chlorine chickens 

c) As the EU exports only a small part of their products to the UK and import from there… you will soon see.

d) As we Europeans believe, we have to be tighter together, many wanted the UK in. But seen the hate of many British towards the EU, better you are some time on your own. Do not forget your Schengen-visa in the future, as you will need like anyone form "third countries". 

[puipuitom]

17 hours ago, Loiner said:

Did they all go to Germany? How much do they pay the Turks, or any of the recently imported Merkel's millions?

By German Law the same as any other living in Germany would get paid.

These Merkel's million: over 390.000 work already.  https://statistik.arbeitsagentur.de/Statischer-Content/Statistische-Analysen/Statistische-Sonderberichte/Generische-Publikationen/Auswirkungen-der-Migration-auf-den-Arbeitsmarkt.pdf

[Blue Muton]

On 9/21/2019 at 12:42 PM, Laughing Gravy said:

The United Nations the most undemocratic organisation in the world, followed by the EU.

 

I hope he tells them to mind their own business and that it will not be the UK building a wall or border or causing any terrorist attacks on NI or Eire territories. So who will then.

Nonsense, the EU is far more democratic than the UK.

 

All laws must be passed my the European Parliament. MEP's are elected by PR, which means that the make-up of the parliament reflects tho votes cast - unlike in the EU where a party with 40% of the votes can take over 50% of the seats.

 

There is no unelected second house in the European Parliament, in the UK the House of Lords is unelected.

 

There is no unelected head of state in the EU, unlike the unelected head of state in the UK.

 

There are unelected senior civil servants in the EU, just as there are in the UK, but they do not make any laws.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

Nonsense, the EU is far more democratic than the UK.

 

All laws must be passed my the European Parliament. MEP's are elected by PR, which means that the make-up of the parliament reflects tho votes cast - unlike in the EU where a party with 40% of the votes can take over 50% of the seats.

 

There is no unelected second house in the European Parliament, in the UK the House of Lords is unelected.

 

There is no unelected head of state in the EU, unlike the unelected head of state in the UK.

 

There are unelected senior civil servants in the EU, just as there are in the UK, but they do not make any laws.

The Brexit Party claim they were told who to vote for re the incoming gang of five, furthermore one MEP was told just one week ago when she objected to being branded 'far right' that she could not contest the allegation as the accuser 'was on the same side' (ie a British MEP from another party).

 

Democratic?

[Blue Muton]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

The Brexit Party claim they were told who to vote for re the incoming gang of five, furthermore one MEP was told just one week ago when she objected to being branded 'far right' that she could not contest the allegation as the accuser 'was on the same side' (ie a British MEP from another party).

 

Democratic?

They had the choice of doing what they were told or not, nobody had a gun to their heads, so yes. And if it talks far right and walks far right, the chances are that's what it is. Remember MP's in the UK can make wild, unfounded accusations about others but have immunity against laws on slander, is that any different (the answer is no)?

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The Brexit Party claim they were told who to vote for re the incoming gang of five, furthermore one MEP was told just one week ago when she objected to being branded 'far right' that she could not contest the allegation as the accuser 'was on the same side' (ie a British MEP from another party).

 

Democratic?

Right so someone tells Brexit Part MEPs who to vote for, well did they follow the instruction. If not, they used their democratic right to vote as they wish, if they followed the instruction they chose not to use their democratic right to vote as they wish.

 

Your assertion regarding someone being accused of being 'far right' and then denied a right to challenge the accusation is equally nonsensical.

 

 

[Forethat]

5 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

They had the choice of doing what they were told or not, nobody had a gun to their heads, so yes. And if it talks far right and walks far right, the chances are that's what it is. Remember MP's in the UK can make wild, unfounded accusations about others but have immunity against laws on slander, is that any different (the answer is no)?

Just like calling others racist, fascist, stupid, crazy, nutter, liar, extremist etc.

 

Sounds familiar...

[Blue Muton]

7 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Just like calling others racist, fascist, stupid, crazy, nutter, liar, extremist etc.

 

Sounds familiar...

I really have no idea what you're talking about.

[Blue Muton]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Right so someone tells Brexit Part MEPs who to vote for, well did they follow the instruction. If not, they used their democratic right to vote as they wish, if they followed the instruction they chose not to use their democratic right to vote as they wish.

A bit like party whips at Westminster telling MP's how to vote then? ????

[evadgib]

Never mind, It'll be over soon enough ????

(Halloween or Guy Fawkes re enactment!!)