Retirement Visa - Confusion Over Changes in Proof of $$

[Older Guy]

Beginning this year most embassies no longer notarize a form that states the retiree gets X income monthly.

So, Immigration had to alter their requirements. 

Picked up a list of the new requirements and use option 4, showing we have X dollars in the bank monthly. The requirements are not very specific and no samples are privided. 

Bank peovided a printout showing monthly deposits that are more than double the 65,000 required. The prinout reflects that these are a foreign transaction, meaning the $ came from outside of Thailand.

Bank also provided a certificate verifying the printouts were true and accurate. This is more detailed information then Immigration ever got before.

It took the bank a full week to get it together.

Went to Immigration and they still want another batch of paperwork, with the specific title (this was never reflected in their requirement document). 

So now we are working with the Thai bank to comply with specific requirements provided the day before the visa expires. 

The bank did not have input from Immigration on what to provide.

Immigration provided generally worded requirements, at best. 

We provided a great deal of data, more than they ever received on the old form notarized by the embassy.

But we were sent away by the clerk who reviews the documents tellinf usbthey needed us to have a certificate with very specific wording. 

Struggling to comply, but will most likely not be done when visa expires.

[ubonjoe]

Which immigration office are you applying at. What is needed can vary for each office.

Did you get a letter similar to this one from the bank showing the monthly transfers. Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf It is what some offices are wanting.

 

 

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Which immigration office are you applying at. What is needed can vary for each office.

Did you get a letter similar to this one from the bank showing the monthly transfers. Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf It is what some offices are wanting.

 

 

The problem is what other bank documents do they want? 12 months worth of bank statements? A covering letter confirming that it's your account? If so, does that letter need to be written on the day of your application? I am trying to comply to the letter of the law, even ensuring that my transfers take place close to the same day each month. I will have 11 months of transfers on the date of my renewal, could even have 12 months if I take my renewal close to the wire.

 

Yet I'm still worried that I won't have the right documents on the day.

 

Retirement extension at Jomtien. Bangkok bank account.

 

 

 

 

/

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Retirement extension at Jomtien. Bangkok bank account.

 

The letter I posted is one that was given to somebody by Jomtien immigration. As far as I know it does not have to be done on the same day you apply.

You would also need your bank book updated and copies of it.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

The letter I posted is one that was given to somebody by Jomtien immigration. As far as I know it does not have to be done on the same day you apply.

You would also need your bank book updated and copies of it.

No need for 12 months worth of bank statements?

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

No need for 12 months worth of bank statements?

From what I understand no bank statements are not needed if you have that letter. Just your bank book showing the transfers.

[soisanuk]

17 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

No need for 12 months worth of bank statements?

Jomtien Immigration will not accept bank statements.  I had bank certified (Bangkok Bank) statements for the preceding 12 months when I applied last June and that was not good enough. The Immigration Officer (a nice lady) explained they wanted a letter from the Bank listing all foreign deposits for the preceding 12 months. She gave me an example of the letter wanted (same the one linked above from Ubonjoe. She also told me I needed to go to the Branch where I opened the account as they were the only ones that could provide the letter to show 12 months activity (I had obtained the bank statements from a Bangkok Bank customer service counter at Tesco Lotus and I had to wait one week to get it as they had to obtain it from Bangkok).    I went to my Branch the same morning and it took them a little over an hour to provide the letter (fee 100 baht) as they needed first to print out "credit advices" for each deposit (I had at least one deposit in each month for more than 65k, but also had others) - the fee was 500 baht for the credit advices which they also gave to me, but was not needed or wanted by Immigration - only the letter listing the deposits.

 

The Pattaya City Expats Club has a checklist available showing what is needed at Jomtien Immigration when using the 65k+ monthly deposit method - this is based on the latest reports they receive from expats doing their extensions at Jomtien Immigration -- http://www.pcecnews.com/permNL/retirementvisachecklist-65k-income.pdf

Note, there are two bank letters required - one is the one listing deposits - the other is the standard letter that has been used for years verifying the account which is still used for those using the 800k+ in a Thai bank.

[kevinmartyn]

If i read correctly you transfer 130,000 +/- Baht into your Thai Bank account! Somethink stinks here and if you have access to that amount of cash albeit from overseas i really cannot take onboard your post and also cannot understand why you do not keep 800k Thai baht in a Thai Bank. Sounds like money laundering to me!

[portly]

slightly off topic but has anyone ever tried to get extenion ,  based on investment in THAI companies.   I always have a million and a half in so called green companies ,  energy companies , solar , conservation .. blah  blah .  all for the good of thailand ... I never by any foreign .   just a thought . 

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, portly said:

slightly off topic but has anyone ever tried to get extenion ,  based on investment in THAI companies.   I always have a million and a half in so called green companies ,  energy companies , solar , conservation .. blah  blah .  all for the good of thailand ... I never by any foreign .   just a thought . 

You can apply for extension based upon a investment of at least 10 million baht.

[Vacuum]

21 hours ago, Older Guy said:

most embassies no longer notarize a form that states the retiree gets X income monthly.

You mean some embassies (4).

[denby45]

19 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

From what I understand no bank statements are not needed if you have that letter. Just your bank book showing the transfers.

For me there would be a problem here because when I get the passbook updated they add a block sum (kasikorn). It does not show the individual deposits. I don't actually use this method however but if I did, I would have to remember to get the book updated every month. Worth thinking about.

 

Den

[Suradit69]

20 hours ago, Older Guy said:

Beginning this year most embassies no longer notarize a form that states the retiree gets X income monthly.

Most?  It was four and, I believe, the number fell to three. When did it become most? 

 

Quote

Struggling to comply, but will most likely not be done when visa expires.

Not sure what visa you're talking about, but you've had a lot of time to get a handle on the new rules regarding renewal of extensions of stay and, depending on the office, you can ( try to) submit your application 30 to 45 days before your current extension expires. 

 

There have been been literally hundreds of posts here on this issue since the beginning of the year. The forum search function sucks but you can do a Google search adding the words "Thai Visa Forum" to whatever you're searching for.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, denby45 said:

For me there would be a problem here because when I get the passbook updated they add a block sum (kasikorn). It does not show the individual deposits.

If needed you could get a bank statement that would show them that would be accepted.

[Srikcir]

19 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Which immigration office are you applying at. What is needed can vary for each office.

Did you get a letter similar to this one from the bank showing the monthly transfers. Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf It is what some offices are wanting.

 

 

CW accepted same format from a different bank for me but insisted the bank letter had to be issued within 7 days of the extension request. My bank letter was written 21 days before making the request and soon after my 12th month deposit. I noted to the IO that my foreign deposit was always received in the same week every month and that the bank insisted it couldn't produce the letter any sooner than it did. CW eventually accepted the letter.

No documents were required to show the source of foreign funds being transferred were from legal sources (ie., social security, pension). 

The IO wasn't interested in seeing printouts of my monthly Thai bank statements nor the wire transfer requests from my foreign bank that matched the Thai bank letter amounts.

Generally, I found the IO confused some of the documentation requirements for the deposit method with the income method. IO's need to know the differences.

Immigration needs to take the lead to provide all banks with a standard letter that meets Immigration document requirements.

[Carolina Reaper]

6 minutes ago, denby45 said:

For me there would be a problem here because when I get the passbook updated they add a block sum (kasikorn). It does not show the individual deposits. I don't actually use this method however but if I did, I would have to remember to get the book updated every month. Worth thinking about.

 

Den

Maybe someone else can confirm, but I don't think Immigration wants the bankbook for the purposes of having all the same foreign deposit detail as what's reflected in the letter that itemizes them. I think it's more about showing that you have the bank account, under your individual control, that matches the account described in the itemizing letter and the account certifying letter.

[DannyCarlton]

2 hours ago, soisanuk said:

The Pattaya City Expats Club has a checklist available showing what is needed at Jomtien Immigration when using the 65k+ monthly deposit method - this is based on the latest reports they receive from expats doing their extensions at Jomtien Immigration -- http://www.pcecnews.com/permNL/retirementvisachecklist-65k-income.pdf

Note, there are two bank letters required - one is the one listing deposits - the other is the standard letter that has been used for years verifying the account which is still used for those using the 800k+ in a Thai bank.

The checklist includes proof of source of income, pension, not more than 6 months old. I thought that this wasn't a requirement under the new Police Order. My only proof is a P60 sent to me by my pension provider every April. My renewal is in December. Could be a real stumbling block for me.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

The checklist includes proof of source of income, pension, not more than 6 months old. I thought that this wasn't a requirement under the new Police Order. My only proof is a P60 sent to me by my pension provider every April. My renewal is in December. Could be a real stumbling block for me.

Proof of the source of you income is a local requirment set by immigration office where you apply. That is info that is really only related to immigration in Pattaya.

Not sure the 6 months is all that correct for there. If you are proving a pension income there really should not be limit on how old it can be as long it is within a year of when you apply.

When I did my extension last month at the office here I used 2 that were dated December and January.

 

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, Carolina Reaper said:

Maybe someone else can confirm, but I don't think Immigration wants the bankbook for the purposes of having all the same foreign deposit detail as what's reflected in the letter that itemizes them. I think it's more about showing that you have the bank account, under your individual control, that matches the account described in the itemizing letter and the account certifying letter.

Not all offices are wanting the letter. Some will accept a bank statement if it shows the transfers were from abroad and the standard bank letter.

I think you might find not all banks will do that letter. That was my experience at Bangkok Bank here.

Immigration here accepted by bank statements, bank book and the standard bank letter last month.

[DannyCarlton]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Proof of the source of you income is a local requirment set by immigration office where you apply. That is info that is really only related to immigration in Pattaya.

Not sure the 6 months is all that correct for there. If you are proving a pension income there really should not be limit on how old it can be as long it is within a year of when you apply.

When I did my extension last month at the office here I used 2 that were dated December and January.

 

Would a P60 and a payslip, both from my pension provider, be sufficient proof?

[Old Croc]

 

21 hours ago, Older Guy said:

Went to Immigration and they still want another batch of paperwork, with the specific title (this was never reflected in their requirement document). 

(snip)

The bank did not have input from Immigration on what to provide.

Immigration provided generally worded requirements, at best. 

We provided a great deal of data, more than they ever received on the old form notarized by the embassy.

But we were sent away by the clerk who reviews the documents tellinf usbthey needed us to have a certificate with very specific wording. 

Struggling to comply, but will most likely not be done when visa expires.

A typical experience these days for many expats seeking, what should be, a straightforward long term extension.

Thai Immigration's refusal to standardize the procedures, not just from one office to the next, but also from one officer to the next, or even one visit to the next, indicates, to this poster, a pattern of harassment of applicants with the goal of forcing all to use commission paying agents to get extensions.

Public service jobs are highly prized in Thailand even though the basic pay is relatively low. We all know the under-the-table extras are where the real money comes from. It forms part of the Thai system of money flow from the masses to the elite. 

In a way, Immigration Officers are at a disadvantage to other public servants because their client base is mainly people brought up to resist corruption and who don't understand or will work within the Thai system. They complain loudly at any and all of the little perks the department uses to try to extract some (back) pocket money.  Many schemes are outed and shutdown, such as the 100 baht "tip" from the 1900 fee, the various forms of fast processing at the airport, the fees for what should be free services, and the infamous TM30 that could never operate as intended 40 years ago, but is a goldmine for extracting fines from foreigners. 

 

Several other countries in SEA require the applicant to use agents as part of the process. Vietnam and Bali (Indon) come to mind.

IMO that's the sort of system they aspire to introduce here.

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Would a P60 and a payslip, both from my pension provider, be sufficient proof?

That would depend upon the office where you apply.

If the pay slip is something you get on regular basis I am sure it would be accepted.

[DannyCarlton]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That would depend upon the office where you apply.

If the pay slip is something you get on regular basis I am sure it would be accepted.

Jomtien. I only get a payslip when my pension increases. Every April.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

Jomtien. I only get a payslip when my pension increases. Every April.

That would work since it states what your pension amount is for this year.

[Captain 776]

All they looked at was the letter from the bank.

 

I had Bank Book and deposit proof to BB in NYC..........never asked for anything other than the letter.

[Henryford]

This post just proves again it is useless to use the income method for your visa. To easy for the IO to reject. Just keep the 800k in the bank. If the OP has 130k a month he can easily do it.

[david555]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

Jomtien. I only get a payslip when my pension increases. Every April.

Can you not request a statement about the pension amount you receive ? As first year of my ret.ext. I used the combination method before the full 800K by 6 years now already ,(as the money not enough then ) and I got on request , a stamped with seal statement from my gov. pension service : how much I get by month and this in future by life .

But I repeat I requested it and was send on my Thai address , but I am not U.K.   , but E.U. country .

My I.O. office Jomtien 

[Lemonltr]

54 minutes ago, Captain 776 said:

All they looked at was the letter from the bank.

 

I had Bank Book and deposit proof to BB in NYC..........never asked for anything other than the letter.

Not any help unless you state which office... 

[AjarnMartin]

22 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Which immigration office are you applying at. What is needed can vary for each office.

Did you get a letter similar to this one from the bank showing the monthly transfers. Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf It is what some offices are wanting.

 

 

Hi Joe,

 

I recently used this exact same template but when I approached my local Bangkok Bank Office, they denied its existence and said all letters of this nature are to emanate from HQ in Bangkok.

 

I got them to copy verbatim, the text from a local SCB Bank and Phetchabun Immigration were ‘over the proverbial moon’.

 

We can’t seem to get over the hurdle of all Immigration offices interpreting Thai Law in their own sweet ways. It’s like trying to herd frogs!

 

The other problem is that Immigration seem reticent to speak directly with Banks and vice-versa. Communication isn’t King, apparently?

 

Martin

 

 

[chilly07]

Putting 800k in your bank for one year is never the answer! It encourages agents as they can "manage' this and monthly income from a credible source certified by the bank is a legitimate route and should be encouraged.

Of course if the 3 recalcitrant Embassies did the job they  like Thai Immigration are able to and paid for all this nonsense could stop!