Whistleblower complaint describes White House cover-up on Trump-Ukraine scandal

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Or maybe there's another possibility, as yet unknown, as to why an investigation has never been opened.  Perhaps despite there being a reasonable basis for it.  We don't know.  Impossible to conclude definitively without more information.  We can only speculate at this point.

 

It was in the transcript that Trump mentioned that he would like to have Bill Barr contact his Ukrainian counterpart.  That's obviously confirmed since it's in the transcript.  I do not possess the expertise to know whether or not involving his personal lawyer is appropriate or inappropriate.  I would assume that it's appropriate and I would be shocked if it wasn't.  I'd have a hard time believing Trump didn't ensure that all was above board.  I understand that statement runs contrary to the prevailing sentiment here but, to be honest, I love the cute, laughing face reactions. LOL

 

 

You don't know whether it's appropriate that a person not in the employ of the United States, an obvious and flagrant partisan of Trump, should be designated as a liaison with a foreign government? And to think there are those who accuse you of being biased. For shame on them!

[Tippaporn]

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You don't know whether it's appropriate that a person not in the employ of the United States, an obvious and flagrant partisan of Trump, should be designated as a liaison with a foreign government? And to think there are those who accuse you of being biased. For shame on them!

Personal baiting post ignored.

 

Goodnight folks.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Personal baiting post ignored.

 

Goodnight folks.

You're the one who claimed not to be biased.

[Farangwithaplan]

This is an interesting situation. Even more so when considering the timing. I wonder if this was the final straw for the Whistleblower to bravely put forward their case?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/27/dan-coats-dni-trump-firing-ukraine

[Farangwithaplan]

And things get more interesting with the security community voicing their view on Whistleblower retaliation.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/27/trump-whistleblower-response-spy-chief-latest

 

This is just getting bigger And will be fascinating to watch as it unravels over time. People will be talking about the proceedings we have begun to witness in 50 years time.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Or maybe there's another possibility, as yet unknown, as to why an investigation has never been opened.  Perhaps despite there being a reasonable basis for it.  We don't know.  Impossible to conclude definitively without more information.  We can only speculate at this point.

 

It was in the transcript that Trump mentioned that he would like to have Bill Barr contact his Ukrainian counterpart.  That's obviously confirmed since it's in the transcript.  I do not possess the expertise to know whether or not involving his personal lawyer is appropriate or inappropriate.  I would assume that it's appropriate and I would be shocked if it wasn't.  I'd have a hard time believing Trump didn't ensure that all was above board.  I understand that statement runs contrary to the prevailing sentiment here but, to be honest, I love the cute, laughing face reactions. LOL

 

 

I realize you are not good at absorbing inconvenient facts, but try to grasp this one:  The firing of Yuriy Lutsenko, the incompetent Ukrainian prosecutor, was legal and proper.  There is no evidence of anything improper about it.  There was no evidence either Biden did anything wrong.   https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/09/27/ukrainian-prosecutor-says-joe-biden-hunter-biden-did-not-violate-laws/3789411002/

 

No, it is not appropriate for Trump to have his personal lawyer involved in state affairs.  Giuliani represents Trump, not the United States.  He met with President  Zelensky’s adviser, Andriy Yermak, shortly after his election, to make clear that Trump wanted some completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theories regarding Biden and Manafort "investigated".  Just to make sure Zelensky knew what was at stake in this witch hunt, US aid to Ukraine was frozen.

 

All this happened before the whistle-blower story, and it was enough to get Congress's attention:

 

"On September 9th the Democratic chairmen of the three committees sent a formal request to the White House and the State Department, instructing them to turn over the documents related to what look like attempts to coerce the Ukrainian government into conducting politically motivated investigations. If Mr Trump really had pressured Ukraine to serve the ends of his re-election campaign, “this would represent a staggering abuse of power, a boon to Moscow, and a betrayal of the public trust”, the letter says.

Less than a week after the launch of the investigation, the White House unfroze the funds for military assistance without explaining the hold-up."   https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/09/21/rudy-giulianis-ukrainian-adventure

 

What needs investigating is Trump's flagrant abuse of power to get re-elected.

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

*Deleted post edited out*

Trump resigning, no chance. He'll have to be dragged out.

I'm not so sure. Get that finance officer at the Trump Organization to roll over, freeze it's assets, and he'll be negotiating the terms of his resignation PDQ. In America it's always about the money.

 

[pomchop]

Federal campaign finance law prohibits anyone from soliciting any “thing of value” from a foreign national.

 

So the trumpers argument must be that dirt on Biden the likely Dem nominee would not be "of value" to trump?  Yeah right.  Perfect conversation except the part about soliciting something of value from a foreign national.  (7 or 8 times in ONE conversation)

Trumps own words are enough for impeachment regardless of quid pro quo or not.

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by pomchop

[bendejo]

7 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Well, for one thing, if there was such evidence it should be turned over to the Justice Dept and/or State Dept to investigate. It should definitely not be spearheaded by a partisan figure such as the President's private attorney. Even if said attorney were a lot less of an atack dog than Rudolph Giuliani.

Exactly.  The best way to clear all this up is make everything available and expose it to the daylight and prove what a hoax it all is.  Let the sunshine in!  ????

Everything, no doctored jive-ass summaries, no more redactions, no censorship hiding behind national security concerns (Nixon didn't have any luck with that one either). 

 

 

I, for one, find released documents like this to be an insult.  Maybe this works with a guy in the Kentucky hills who wants the mines to re-open so he can go back to his old black-lung job as a coal miner, but not all Americans are as dumb as that.  Unfortunately there are enough to get people like Mitch McConnell elected.

 

Speaking of which the two main rats to watch are McConnell and Barr: when you see them both distancing themselves from DT he is going to start considering hiding in the bunker.  Even in the ranks of Fox News there is turmoil!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/27/business/media/fox-news-sean-hannity.html

 

And some networks have stopped carrying his blather

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/25/business/media/msnbc-nicolle-wallace-trump.html

 

And it's about damned time!  This is the same MSNBC that pre-empted their programming to show DT's private jet arriving at an airport during the campaign.  

 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by bendejo

[bendejo]

6 hours ago, stevenl said:

*Deleted post edited out*

Trump resigning, no chance. He'll have to be dragged out.

Handcuffs or straightjacket? 

 

[englishoak]

Trump Russia collusion part 2,  all so tiresome and a nothing burger but people love a drama these days. Shame most dont understand how the media narrative, data and social emotions are being played and used against them. Its all geo political with a social media spin of enormous reach and persuasion, encouraging mental dysphoria and hysteria to epic proportions and the timing is no accident. Impeachment would not be going ahead if they didnt think it would go though, they have run out of credible Dem candidates and more importantly time. 

 

Since there is no Democrat able to beat Trump he MUST be removed. They have the house and just need 20 or so in the senate to remove DT, criminal charges arnt required with impeachment just the political whim, anyone think there arnt enough corrupt or compromised or DT hating Reps to fill those numbers ? of course there is, plenty of Reps hate Trump full stop. They will seek to do by deception and "lawfully" what they cannot by democratic election means. Just as it is in the UK atm and yes it is linked. No coincidence Boris was recalled whilst in the USA meeting with trade ambassadors and Trump etc. 

 

So Pence becomes President, hes Not DT and Romney etc can beat him and the Dems can eat Romney etc alive. DT will not be able to run as an independent if the timing is correct and from there the global agenda is right back on, open borders and thats the end of any republican POTUS ever again. Same thing happening in the UK being forced into the EU despite a will to leave, next week they will seek to remove Boris by the same method as by election it wont work...its no coincidence its all happening at the same time, the globalists are now throwing everything they have at populism and to hell with the consequences and democracy..

if it works democracy is dead, ( what little there was of it ) and there will be renewed war in the ME in short order. Despite all efforts to get into a war with Iran and higher oil prices Trump has resisted and oil id resuming its downwards trend

 

The TPTB want war with Iran, that should be obvious to everytone, always have and so does Israel and SA, and the region to erupt in chaos as it has been in for the past few decades, its about oil and prices and a lot of rebalancing furthering the NWO agenda. Trump for all his faults does not want war, he wants to do business but Europe NEEDS a war, its economy is screwed beyond repair as does the flagging oil industry, fracking needs it, the markets need it and theres plenty of globalists and arms industry keen to sell new tech and make a load of cash along with the markets, war is always good for the financial sector and the world is drowning in a sea of debt soon to start maturing, it cant be paid down, rates are at zero and pensions need a high return where atm there are fast becoming none, either the can must be kicked which is what QE does only adding more debt to the future or a reset must happen. War is as always the best method for a reset, the bigger the better for bringing in new rules and system. It wont be a better or more free one either make no mistake.  

 

People should be able to recognise there is a new paradigm shift happening and has been rapidly for a few years now, we are at peak social media propaganda, hysteria and dysphoria, people dont even know what sex they are anymore or what losers consent is, pedos run rampant, no one of wealth goes to jail but the cracks are now showing and people have had enough. These globalist Boomers need it to happen NOW before the backlash of populism and common sense overtakes them, wrecks the global agenda for their remaining lifetimes and possibly puts some to death, either by court or by the mob. 

 

Those looking forward to the destruction of democracy supplanted by the will of corporatism, big tech,  globalism, politicised judges for a few more shekels and comfy retirement might not rue the day but the generations to come most likely will. I wouldnt count on Thailand being a safe haven under those condition's for long as a foreigner though, its past tells the future prospects of that.

 

Interesting times indeed, 

 

 

 

 

 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, englishoak said:

Trump Russia collusion part 2,  all so tiresome and a nothing burger but people love a drama these days. Shame most dont understand how the media narrative, data and social emotions are being played and used against them. Its all geo political with a social media spin of enormous reach and persuasion, encouraging mental dysphoria and hysteria to epic proportions and the timing is no accident. Impeachment would not be going ahead if they didnt think it would go though, they have run out of credible Dem candidates and more importantly time. 

 

Since there is no Democrat able to beat Trump he MUST be removed. They have the house and just need 20 or so in the senate to remove DT, criminal charges arnt required with impeachment just the political whim, anyone think there arnt enough corrupt or compromised or DT hating Reps to fill those numbers ? of course there is, plenty of Reps hate Trump full stop. They will seek to do by deception and "lawfully" what they cannot by democratic election means. Just as it is in the UK atm and yes it is linked. No coincidence Boris was recalled whilst in the USA meeting with trade ambassadors and Trump etc. 

 

So Pence becomes President, hes Not DT and Romney etc can beat him and the Dems can eat Romney etc alive. DT will not be able to run as an independent if the timing is correct and from there the global agenda is right back on, open borders and thats the end of any republican POTUS ever again. Same thing happening in the UK being forced into the EU despite a will to leave, next week they will seek to remove Boris by the same method as by election it wont work...its no coincidence its all happening at the same time, the globalists are now throwing everything they have at populism and to hell with the consequences and democracy..

if it works democracy is dead, ( what little there was of it ) and there will be renewed war in the ME in short order. Despite all efforts to get into a war with Iran and higher oil prices Trump has resisted and oil id resuming its downwards trend

 

The TPTB want war with Iran, that should be obvious to everytone, always have and so does Israel and SA, and the region to erupt in chaos as it has been in for the past few decades, its about oil and prices and a lot of rebalancing furthering the NWO agenda. Trump for all his faults does not want war, he wants to do business but Europe NEEDS a war, its economy is screwed beyond repair as does the flagging oil industry, fracking needs it, the markets need it and theres plenty of globalists and arms industry keen to sell new tech and make a load of cash along with the markets, war is always good for the financial sector and the world is drowning in a sea of debt soon to start maturing, it cant be paid down, rates are at zero and pensions need a high return where atm there are fast becoming none, either the can must be kicked which is what QE does only adding more debt to the future or a reset must happen. War is as always the best method for a reset, the bigger the better for bringing in new rules and system. It wont be a better or more free one either make no mistake.  

 

People should be able to recognise there is a new paradigm shift happening and has been rapidly for a few years now, we are at peak social media propaganda, hysteria and dysphoria, people dont even know what sex they are anymore or what losers consent is, pedos run rampant, no one of wealth goes to jail but the cracks are now showing and people have had enough. These globalist Boomers need it to happen NOW before the backlash of populism and common sense overtakes them, wrecks the global agenda for their remaining lifetimes and possibly puts some to death, either by court or by the mob. 

 

Those looking forward to the destruction of democracy supplanted by the will of corporatism, big tech,  globalism, politicised judges for a few more shekels and comfy retirement might not rue the day but the generations to come most likely will. I wouldnt count on Thailand being a safe haven under those condition's for long as a foreigner though, its past tells the future prospects of that.

 

Interesting times indeed, 

 

 

 

 

 

One thing in your rant is true, trump doesn't want war. You're wrong about everything else though.

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, englishoak said:

Trump Russia collusion part 2,  all so tiresome and a nothing burger but people love a drama these days. Shame most dont understand how the media narrative, data and social emotions are being played and used against them. Its all geo political with a social media spin of enormous reach and persuasion, encouraging mental dysphoria and hysteria to epic proportions and the timing is no accident. Impeachment would not be going ahead if they didnt think it would go though, they have run out of credible Dem candidates and more importantly time. 

 

Since there is no Democrat able to beat Trump he MUST be removed. They have the house and just need 20 or so in the senate to remove DT, criminal charges arnt required with impeachment just the political whim, anyone think there arnt enough corrupt or compromised or DT hating Reps to fill those numbers ? of course there is, plenty of Reps hate Trump full stop. They will seek to do by deception and "lawfully" what they cannot by democratic election means. Just as it is in the UK atm and yes it is linked. No coincidence Boris was recalled whilst in the USA meeting with trade ambassadors and Trump etc. 

 

So Pence becomes President, hes Not DT and Romney etc can beat him and the Dems can eat Romney etc alive. DT will not be able to run as an independent if the timing is correct and from there the global agenda is right back on, open borders and thats the end of any republican POTUS ever again. Same thing happening in the UK being forced into the EU despite a will to leave, next week they will seek to remove Boris by the same method as by election it wont work...its no coincidence its all happening at the same time, the globalists are now throwing everything they have at populism and to hell with the consequences and democracy..

if it works democracy is dead, ( what little there was of it ) and there will be renewed war in the ME in short order. Despite all efforts to get into a war with Iran and higher oil prices Trump has resisted and oil id resuming its downwards trend

 

The TPTB want war with Iran, that should be obvious to everytone, always have and so does Israel and SA, and the region to erupt in chaos as it has been in for the past few decades, its about oil and prices and a lot of rebalancing furthering the NWO agenda. Trump for all his faults does not want war, he wants to do business but Europe NEEDS a war, its economy is screwed beyond repair as does the flagging oil industry, fracking needs it, the markets need it and theres plenty of globalists and arms industry keen to sell new tech and make a load of cash along with the markets, war is always good for the financial sector and the world is drowning in a sea of debt soon to start maturing, it cant be paid down, rates are at zero and pensions need a high return where atm there are fast becoming none, either the can must be kicked which is what QE does only adding more debt to the future or a reset must happen. War is as always the best method for a reset, the bigger the better for bringing in new rules and system. It wont be a better or more free one either make no mistake.  

 

People should be able to recognise there is a new paradigm shift happening and has been rapidly for a few years now, we are at peak social media propaganda, hysteria and dysphoria, people dont even know what sex they are anymore or what losers consent is, pedos run rampant, no one of wealth goes to jail but the cracks are now showing and people have had enough. These globalist Boomers need it to happen NOW before the backlash of populism and common sense overtakes them, wrecks the global agenda for their remaining lifetimes and possibly puts some to death, either by court or by the mob. 

 

Those looking forward to the destruction of democracy supplanted by the will of corporatism, big tech,  globalism, politicised judges for a few more shekels and comfy retirement might not rue the day but the generations to come most likely will. I wouldnt count on Thailand being a safe haven under those condition's for long as a foreigner though, its past tells the future prospects of that.

 

Interesting times indeed, 

englishoak, you've just earned my utmost respect.    Yours was, by far, the best post on this thread.  It should be pinned at the top to each and every political thread here on TV.

 

These are indeed interesting times.  I, for one, have immense faith in the human spirit.  There is no human power great enough to quash it.  That I can guarantee.  Granted there are enough fools who believe in it's possibility and so in their delusion they are attempting to do just that.  I, along with you and many, many, many others, many of them with silent voices, yearn to see the day when this madness ends.

 

Amen, brother!

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, englishoak said:

Trump Russia collusion part 2,  all so tiresome and a nothing burger but people love a drama these days. Shame most dont understand how the media narrative, data and social emotions are being played and used against them. Its all geo political with a social media spin of enormous reach and persuasion, encouraging mental dysphoria and hysteria to epic proportions and the timing is no accident. Impeachment would not be going ahead if they didnt think it would go though, they have run out of credible Dem candidates and more importantly time. 

 

Since there is no Democrat able to beat Trump he MUST be removed. They have the house and just need 20 or so in the senate to remove DT, criminal charges arnt required with impeachment just the political whim, anyone think there arnt enough corrupt or compromised or DT hating Reps to fill those numbers ? of course there is, plenty of Reps hate Trump full stop. They will seek to do by deception and "lawfully" what they cannot by democratic election means. Just as it is in the UK atm and yes it is linked. No coincidence Boris was recalled whilst in the USA meeting with trade ambassadors and Trump etc. 

 

So Pence becomes President, hes Not DT and Romney etc can beat him and the Dems can eat Romney etc alive. DT will not be able to run as an independent if the timing is correct and from there the global agenda is right back on, open borders and thats the end of any republican POTUS ever again. Same thing happening in the UK being forced into the EU despite a will to leave, next week they will seek to remove Boris by the same method as by election it wont work...its no coincidence its all happening at the same time, the globalists are now throwing everything they have at populism and to hell with the consequences and democracy..

if it works democracy is dead, ( what little there was of it ) and there will be renewed war in the ME in short order. Despite all efforts to get into a war with Iran and higher oil prices Trump has resisted and oil id resuming its downwards trend

 

The TPTB want war with Iran, that should be obvious to everytone, always have and so does Israel and SA, and the region to erupt in chaos as it has been in for the past few decades, its about oil and prices and a lot of rebalancing furthering the NWO agenda. Trump for all his faults does not want war, he wants to do business but Europe NEEDS a war, its economy is screwed beyond repair as does the flagging oil industry, fracking needs it, the markets need it and theres plenty of globalists and arms industry keen to sell new tech and make a load of cash along with the markets, war is always good for the financial sector and the world is drowning in a sea of debt soon to start maturing, it cant be paid down, rates are at zero and pensions need a high return where atm there are fast becoming none, either the can must be kicked which is what QE does only adding more debt to the future or a reset must happen. War is as always the best method for a reset, the bigger the better for bringing in new rules and system. It wont be a better or more free one either make no mistake.  

 

People should be able to recognise there is a new paradigm shift happening and has been rapidly for a few years now, we are at peak social media propaganda, hysteria and dysphoria, people dont even know what sex they are anymore or what losers consent is, pedos run rampant, no one of wealth goes to jail but the cracks are now showing and people have had enough. These globalist Boomers need it to happen NOW before the backlash of populism and common sense overtakes them, wrecks the global agenda for their remaining lifetimes and possibly puts some to death, either by court or by the mob. 

 

Those looking forward to the destruction of democracy supplanted by the will of corporatism, big tech,  globalism, politicised judges for a few more shekels and comfy retirement might not rue the day but the generations to come most likely will. I wouldnt count on Thailand being a safe haven under those condition's for long as a foreigner though, its past tells the future prospects of that.

 

Interesting times indeed, 

 

 

 

 

 

Arguably the longest off topic rant this year.

 

No mention of the whistleblower or his/her report and of course no mention of the fact Trump has released evidence of his crimes that verify the whistleblower report.

 

 

[lannarebirth]

32 minutes ago, stevenl said:

One thing in your rant is true, trump doesn't want war. You're wrong about everything else though.

He's also right that there is a paradigm shift underway, but the Republicans have no answer for it and most of the Democrats don't either. I agree that the rest of it is doubtful and highly speculative.

 

[englishoak]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Arguably the longest off topic rant this year.

 

No mention of the whistleblower or his/her report and of course no mention of the fact Trump has released evidence of his crimes that verify the whistleblower report.

 

 

 

It wasnt a rant, more of an overview beyond the drama noise, I couldnt care less about these little dramas but like I said people are fixated by them these days and far too invested in such things like Orange man bad yet that is what propaganda campaigns are supped to do. Well done you for being sucked in.  Nor was it off topic, more like on topic and way beyond and behind it. Sorry if thats over your head, it wasnt for you anyway but others here that can follow a bigger picture that might be interested.

 

Censorship is growing, intolerance and arrogance with it, as is false outrage, poor education, lack of critical thinking and that trend is growing rapidly. Reporters are now political activists  have opinions and biased, Academia itself has been compromised, students are now told and taught WHAT to think not HOW to think, eg men CAN be women and science dosnt get to say otherwise anymore or your job is toast etc. We have a decade to save the planet ( again ) you WILL conform and accept it or be thrown out of school uni if even questioning narrative, your job will be targeted by activists, your business etc. None of this happens by accident nor without emotional manipulation or propaganda. 

 

  Did it ever occur to you there are bigger agendas and players behind what the media puts on the front pages and rams down your throat day after day ? probably not..you probably dont realise for instance the biggest payout the MSM has had is Trump being elected, it has made them vast sums of money and allowed it if for a short period again flourish and time to move into social media, get online and begin changing or restricting the narrative there. I could bore you with statistics, data  and consolidation figures I wont, but its all out there in various reports from think tanks, charts, white papers, viewing figures and profits should you care to research awhile. True to say the old analog media woke up late but its now in full swing, very busy and actively taking over the new net age media rapidly by deplatforming, demonising and by acquisition. Its not an accident nor innocent or an exception, its become the rule and the norm with a very real agenda to control the narrative entirely where possible ASAP. it MUST or perish along with its masters and owners.

 

 All I have said about Iran and economics, political agenda and oil etc is not hard to confirm , nor is anything re social engineering and easily verifiable. If you choose to dismiss it thats your prerogative but it dosnt change its happening anyway. 

 

 They are indeed throwing everything at populism and democracy, they MUST. Its become too inconvenient in the new age and exposes the real power tech has over the very thoughts and emotions people manifest. By appealing to or manipulating emotion you move the mob, thus it can move a nation, or policy, or justify a war. This has always been true just tech and social media platforms do it better and more efficiently than anything ever before. You should be smart enough to notice the obvious, even if you dont like it. Remember the Iraq war ? Saddam for all his evil had zero to do with 9/11, that is widely accepted by everyone now  yet the narrative appealed to emotions allowing that false war to happen, then Libya and so on, LOTS of people who should have ad a life DIED for nothing but a whim, money and power grabbing. These people are NOT stupid, everything is played out in think tanks before any political move is made.  Wake up man, your being played by these little dramas while theres far more behind all of it. 

 

One thing i fervently hope to be wrong about however is the outcome. 

 

 

[mtls2005]

Sounds like Mick Mulvaney is the next speed bump.

 

Assume he's the one who "cleaned up aisle 2" repeatedly - by hiding transcripts.

 

Rumblings that he will "retire to spend more time with his family".

 

Ukrainegate will surpass Nixon/Watergate by a massive margin vis-a-vis corruption. The president said he knows the best people, who knew he meant the best criminals?

 

 

 

 

[Tippaporn]

15 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

It wasnt a rant, more of an overview beyond the drama noise, I couldnt care less about these little dramas but like I said people are fixated by them these days and far too invested in such things like Orange man bad yet that is what propaganda campaigns are supped to do. Well done you for being sucked in.  Nor was it off topic, more like on topic and way beyond and behind it. Sorry if thats over your head, it wasnt for you anyway but others here that can follow a bigger picture that might be interested.

 

Censorship is growing, intolerance and arrogance with it, as is false outrage, poor education, lack of critical thinking and that trend is growing rapidly. Reporters are now political activists  have opinions and biased, Academia itself has been compromised, students are now told and taught WHAT to think not HOW to think, eg men CAN be women and science dosnt get to say otherwise anymore or your job is toast etc. We have a decade to save the planet ( again ) you WILL conform and accept it or be thrown out of school uni if even questioning narrative, your job will be targeted by activists, your business etc. None of this happens by accident nor without emotional manipulation or propaganda. 

 

  Did it ever occur to you there are bigger agendas and players behind what the media puts on the front pages and rams down your throat day after day ? probably not..you probably dont realise for instance the biggest payout the MSM has had is Trump being elected, it has made them vast sums of money and allowed it if for a short period again flourish and time to move into social media, get online and begin changing or restricting the narrative there. I could bore you with statistics, data  and consolidation figures I wont, but its all out there in various reports from think tanks, charts, white papers, viewing figures and profits should you care to research awhile. True to say the old analog media woke up late but its now in full swing, very busy and actively taking over the new net age media rapidly by deplatforming, demonising and by acquisition. Its not an accident nor innocent or an exception, its become the rule and the norm with a very real agenda to control the narrative entirely where possible ASAP. it MUST or perish along with its masters and owners.

 

 All I have said about Iran and economics, political agenda and oil etc is not hard to confirm , nor is anything re social engineering and easily verifiable. If you choose to dismiss it thats your prerogative but it dosnt change its happening anyway. 

 

 They are indeed throwing everything at populism and democracy, they MUST. Its become too inconvenient in the new age and exposes the real power tech has over the very thoughts and emotions people manifest. By appealing to or manipulating emotion you move the mob, thus it can move a nation, or policy, or justify a war. This has always been true just tech and social media platforms do it better and more efficiently than anything ever before. You should be smart enough to notice the obvious, even if you dont like it. Remember the Iraq war ? Saddam for all his evil had zero to do with 9/11, that is widely accepted by everyone now  yet the narrative appealed to emotions allowing that false war to happen, then Libya and so on, LOTS of people who should have ad a life DIED for nothing but a whim, money and power grabbing. These people are NOT stupid, everything is played out in think tanks before any political move is made.  Wake up man, your being played by these little dramas while theres far more behind all of it. 

 

One thing i fervently hope to be wrong about however is the outcome. 

 

 

Again, englishoak, a simply marvelous overview.    You have saved me so much typing.  As time is money, and so mine is, I owe you and should we ever meet the beers are on me, my friend.

[Becker]

50 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

It wasnt a rant, more of an overview beyond the drama noise, I couldnt care less about these little dramas but like I said people are fixated by them these days and far too invested in such things like Orange man bad yet that is what propaganda campaigns are supped to do. Well done you for being sucked in.  Nor was it off topic, more like on topic and way beyond and behind it. Sorry if thats over your head, it wasnt for you anyway but others here that can follow a bigger picture that might be interested.

Oh great, another "seer" who, unlike us silly lemmings, can grasp things which go over the head of us mere mortals. Nothing to see here folks, the whole whistleblower situation is just a propaganda campaign and Trump has done nothing wrong - move along now!

Edited September 29, 2019 by Becker

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, Becker said:

Oh great, another "seer" who, unlike us silly lemmings, can grasp things which go over the head of us mere mortals. Nothing to see here folks, the whole whistleblower situation is just a propaganda campaign and Trump has done nothing wrong - move along now!

You got that wrong, it is part of Trump's grand plan to entrap the democrats.

[opalred]

wait till it comes out /asking  Arabia to help son in law with money

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.   Please stay on topic.   Continuing to post off-topic remarks will result in post removal.

 

[Jingthing]

Oh great, another "seer" who, unlike us silly lemmings, can grasp things which go over the head of us mere mortals. Nothing to see here folks, the whole whistleblower situation is just a propaganda campaign and Trump has done nothing wrong - move along now!

Yeah denial of posting a rant with another rant. Clearly very evolved way past us mere mortals.

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[englishoak]

11 minutes ago, Becker said:

Oh great, another "seer" who, unlike us silly lemmings, can grasp things which go over the head of us mere mortals. Nothing to see here folks, the whole whistleblower situation is just a propaganda campaign and Trump has done nothing wrong - move along now!

 

Clearly you have already decided as no doubt you had on the Russia collusion scam before it i suspect. I am far more interested in the bigger game being played. You have an emotional investment in Trump i do not have, you also make up things i have not said but of course its a propaganda campaign, just as Russia collusion was. Are you really that naive to suppose ANY president does not do wrong things ? on the contrary every single one in the past 30 years has more blood on their hands than DT and quite dramatically so too. The Bushes were/are war criminals as is Obama who is also imo a traitor and Clinton is a serial rapist AND a war criminal, Johnson, Reagan and Nixon, the list goes on no matter the party.. 

 

I am just as scathing of my own ex leaders btw be it Thatcher, Major, Blair or Cameron etc war criminals all. I am not partisan by any means but there are ways of ousting a sitting president or PM in a democracy and that should be by the people, at an election, as it should be and has been to date. If you were honest and clear headed youd admit that is impossible by democratic means because Trump is so popular so yes its a propaganda campaign and will be done by lawful coup whilst Democrats will cheer it on because losing to the opposition can no longer tolerated, this history teaches us leads to tyranny, it also utterly undermines your democratic system and you will lose your Republic and undermine your Constitution if allowed to happen as we are losing ours for nothing but a circus with drama fuelled by media and political manipulation of your emotions to see your "team" win at any cost.. you are a fool not to look deeper. They do not care about you or the people nor does Trump but he cares more about your country than most of his predecessors have that much im sure of simply because he is NOT a war monger, just a businessman given the opportunity to be POTUS and for that he is hated by TPTB, any sensible and non partisan critical thinker should be able to see that by now. The media is there to stop sense, clear thinking and inject narrative and bias. im sure youd agree hat is what fox media does and so do CNN and all the rest, choose your poison.  

 

Dont worry if Trump is removed by lawful coup as i believe is very likely youll get your war and can cheer whilst many more lives are wasted in the name of some narrative peddled as necessary while the powerful will continue to consolidate the march towards total control and less freedoms for you and your offspring. You are the blind mob, keen to have your personal political ego massaged no matter the means and are thus easily led, sleep well and continue your partisan slumber friend. One day you might wake up and ask where your freedoms went.     

[Jingthing]

Removal by impeachment then conviction isn't a coup. It's fully constitutional.

Next
...

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[Tippaporn]

21 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

Clearly you have already decided as no doubt you had on the Russia collusion scam before it i suspect. I am far more interested in the bigger game being played. You have an emotional investment in Trump i do not have, you also make up things i have not said but of course its a propaganda campaign, just as Russia collusion was. Are you really that naive to suppose ANY president does not do wrong things ? on the contrary every single one in the past 30 years has more blood on their hands than DT and quite dramatically so too. The Bushes were/are war criminals as is Obama who is also imo a traitor and Clinton is a serial rapist AND a war criminal, Johnson, Reagan and Nixon, the list goes on no matter the party.. 

 

I am just as scathing of my own ex leaders btw be it Thatcher, Major, Blair or Cameron etc war criminals all. I am not partisan by any means but there are ways of ousting a sitting president or PM in a democracy and that should be by the people, at an election, as it should be and has been to date. If you were honest and clear headed youd admit that is impossible by democratic means because Trump is so popular so yes its a propaganda campaign and will be done by lawful coup whilst Democrats will cheer it on because losing to the opposition can no longer tolerated, this history teaches us leads to tyranny, it also utterly undermines your democratic system and you will lose your Republic and undermine your Constitution if allowed to happen as we are losing ours for nothing but a circus with drama fuelled by media and political manipulation of your emotions to see your "team" win at any cost.. you are a fool not to look deeper. They do not care about you or the people nor does Trump but he cares more about your country than most of his predecessors have that much im sure of simply because he is NOT a war monger, just a businessman given the opportunity to be POTUS and for that he is hated by TPTB, any sensible and non partisan critical thinker should be able to see that by now. The media is there to stop sense, clear thinking and inject narrative and bias. im sure youd agree hat is what fox media does and so do CNN and all the rest, choose your poison.  

 

Dont worry if Trump is removed by lawful coup as i believe is very likely youll get your war and can cheer whilst many more lives are wasted in the name of some narrative peddled as necessary while the powerful will continue to consolidate the march towards total control and less freedoms for you and your offspring. You are the blind mob, keen to have your personal political ego massaged no matter the means and are thus easily led, sleep well and continue your partisan slumber friend. One day you might wake up and ask where your freedoms went.     

I agree with all you say, englishoak, except for this one point:  the war they get may be a civil one.  People can endure nonsense for only so long.  And they are being pushed mightily these days.  I would not assume that if the Dems were able to remove Trump that the sane citizens of America would take it lying down.  I think we should all hope that the outcome never comes to that.  Think people, think of what you are being led to, why and by whom.  We're at a cross road.  Not only in the U.S. but as englishoak can confirm, the U.K. as well.  Look to Hong Kong.  Look to France.  The pot is boiling over.

[rabas]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

Agreed. But not my point.

 

So you're saying that the current president is the same as President Obama in this regard? Is that good? Bad? Defensible?

 

Carry on.

Aye aye, sir!

 

Regarding politicians, it's all bad, sir!

Defensible? Only by lemmings.

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by rabas

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I agree with all you say, englishoak, except for this one point:  the war they get may be a civil one.  People can endure nonsense for only so long.  And they are being pushed mightily these days.  I would not assume that if the Dems were able to remove Trump that the sane citizens of America would take it lying down.  I think we should all hope that the outcome never comes to that.  Think people, think of what you are being led to, why and by whom.  We're at a cross road.  Not only in the U.S. but as englishoak can confirm, the U.K. as well.  Look to Hong Kong.  Look to France.  The pot is boiling over.

Oh look, it’s the  ‘Leave our traitor in the WH alone or we’ll break your windows’ defense.

[lannarebirth]

14 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I would not assume that if the Dems were able to remove Trump that the sane citizens of America would take it lying down. 

The Democrats can't remove Trump, only the Republicans can.

[Tippaporn]

4 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

The Democrats can't remove Trump, only the Republicans can.

Thankfully they won't.  There are still some sane among us.