Second whistleblower in Trump-Ukraine scandal comes forward - lawyer

[neeray]

13 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

You are beginning to sound like Harris in a city in the midst of urban decay.

okay

[Basil B]

Do you not think the calls were not recorded at both ends of telephone conversations?

 

IMHO the issue here is Trump being blackmailed as POTUS into doing favours for foreign states.

 

[Cryingdick]

20 minutes ago, Tug said:

The Bay Area is the driving force behind California’s thriving economy the 5 th largest on the planet I think Oakland is on fire as far as real estate and business go just so ya know

 

I agree. The irony they are going to go to war with the tech industry that started it all isn't lost on me. That's why Oakland is on fire in a way it didn't used to be.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Cryingdick

[ToddinChonburi]

Then why doesn't congress vote ?

[Cryingdick]

3 minutes ago, ToddinChonburi said:

Then why doesn't congress vote ?

It's just not the way it is done these days. 

[riclag]

Whether it is or it isn't, it is being perceived by some right wing commentators as a coup attempt by the intelligence community. I guess we will see if the new evidence has any teeth. In any case, America is continuing to pull apart.

Dem .Sen.Schumer said a few years back in regards to our intel agencies and Mr Trump.

"Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/schumer-warns-trump-intel-officials-have-six-ways-from-sunday-at-getting-back-at-you

 

Many took this as a premonition

[ToddinChonburi]

3 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

It's just not the way it is done these days. 

They have already voted twice.  LOl

[mlmcleod]

As we all know by now, any dissent for any of Trump's actions are all treason and lies.  He constantly confuses the issues by lying repeatedly.  The Republican party now just consists of office holders who will do anything to keep their power.  Even kiss Trump's butt!

[Opl]

11 minutes ago, ToddinChonburi said:

    No evidence , really how about 1..5 billion given to Biden and Kerry's business from Ukraine. Then we have Hunter being placed on the board of an Energy company and receiving $50,000 a month income. a prosecutor was terminated that was looking into corruption. Just look at how <deleted> Joe gets when asked. He also say that what is did was OK.

The main issue is the abuse of power of a sitting President, pressuring a foreign head of state for his own personal and political interest in exchange of US aide, but if you raise up the question of money, then , what do you make of Ivanka Trump and her husband who earned no less than $ 82 million in 2017 (or $ 3.5 million a month each) while they have responsibilities in the Trump Administration? Conflicts of interest are OK, right?

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Second whistleblower in Trump-Ukraine scandal comes forward

And a third whistleblower coming soon?

IRS whistleblower said to report Treasury political appointee might have tried to interfere in audit of Trump or Pence

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/irs-whistleblower-said-to-report-treasury-political-appointee-might-have-tried-to-interfere-in-audit-of-trump-or-pence/2019/10/03/0c768b34-e52e-11e9-a331-2df12d56a80b_story.html

[metisdead]

A post using a link from an unapproved source has been removed as well as a reply. 

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, Skallywag said:

Doesn't someone in authority have to actually see a statement taken under oath from these so called "whistleblowers" ?

Anyone can open a twitter account with any name and title AFAIK.

 

A statement to the "inspector general"  is mentioned, but not from the inspector general, so hearsay.

Again, someone said someone talked to someone. This is all hearsay.

Am not a Trump fan, but am waiting for some "first hand" information, as likely the Democrats will need this to proceed with impeachment

 

Trump could well have committed transgressions.

 

However, this is getting like the #metoo "revelations". When suddenly someone his denounced by multiple people. In this case the whistle blowers can remain anonymous as is their right. 

 

But after the Russian interference debacle, it does look like witch hunts and jumping on the bandwagon,

 

Of course the usual left wing posters jump on anything as gospel and present it as must be fact. Because that's what they want to believe. Just like they're not interested in wondering just how many Democrats have children who've got board seats on foreign companies and other organizations where there main skill seems to be who mummy and daddy are.

 

I'm no Trump fan, but pretending the Democrats are saintly, and as honest as the day is long is bunkum.

 

Trump, for whatever reasons, fell out with the intelligence community. And they've been stirring the pot ever since. I wonder of the Democrats have done the old lefty trick of making sure key appointments to intelligence agencies have, over time, always been filled with people with the "correct political views"? Nah, course not!

[Sujo]

23 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Trump could well have committed transgressions.

 

However, this is getting like the #metoo "revelations". When suddenly someone his denounced by multiple people. In this case the whistle blowers can remain anonymous as is their right. 

 

But after the Russian interference debacle, it does look like witch hunts and jumping on the bandwagon,

 

Of course the usual left wing posters jump on anything as gospel and present it as must be fact. Because that's what they want to believe. Just like they're not interested in wondering just how many Democrats have children who've got board seats on foreign companies and other organizations where there main skill seems to be who mummy and daddy are.

 

I'm no Trump fan, but pretending the Democrats are saintly, and as honest as the day is long is bunkum.

 

Trump, for whatever reasons, fell out with the intelligence community. And they've been stirring the pot ever since. I wonder of the Democrats have done the old lefty trick of making sure key appointments to intelligence agencies have, over time, always been filled with people with the "correct political views"? Nah, course not!

Except of course trump admits he did it.

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, ToddinChonburi said:

Then why doesn't congress vote ?

Vote on what?

[billd766]

On 10/7/2019 at 8:17 AM, Skallywag said:

Trump statement on the WH lawn saying he withheld the military aid from Ukraine until they dug up dirt on Biden I cannot find online.  It sure seems Trump is in serious trouble, but I have to be skeptical as still need 2/3 vote in Senate to impeach.   No news coverage on Senate Republican comments - are there?

 

Did you look here?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/us/politics/trump-un-biden-ukraine.html

 

President Trump personally ordered his staff to freeze more than $391 million in aid to Ukraine in the days before he pressed the new Ukrainian president to investigate the Democrats’ leading presidential candidate, two senior administration officials said Monday.

Mr. Trump issued his directive to Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, who conveyed it through the budget office to the Pentagon and the State Department, which were told only that the administration was looking at whether the spending was necessary, the officials said.

 

or here

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/24/20881505/donald-trump-withhold-aid-ukraine-timeline-whistleblower

 

President Donald Trump’s latest and greatest scandal centers on a key decision: his suspension of US military aid to Ukraine.

The Eastern European nation was expecting nearly $400 million in US support — including weapons, training, and advisers — to boost its effort to fight off Russia which invaded the country in 2014.

But by the time Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky got on the now infamous July 25 call with Trump, that aid had yet to be sent. It’s therefore no surprise Zelensky mentioned the assistance to Trump, to which Trump responded he’d like Zelensky to do him a “favor” in return: investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son.

It certainly seems like a quid pro quo was pretty clearly implied: You want your aid? Help me dig up dirt on my 2020 political rival.

 

Perhaps here

 

https://www.courant.com/nation-world/ct-nw-trump-ukraine-texts-20191004-dhjbhgreyffgxaibqnh3qlttna-htmlstory.html

 

Top U.S. diplomats encouraged Ukraine’s newly elected president to conduct an investigation linked to Joe Biden’s family in return for a high-profile visit to Washington with President Donald Trump. It soon escalated into what one feared was a "crazy" swap that risked vital U.S. military aid.

That’s according to a cache of text messages released late Thursday by House investigators following a 10-hour interview with one of the diplomats, Kurt Volker, who stepped down as special envoy to Ukraine amid the Democrats’ impeachment inquiry.

The pages lay out the raw contours of a potential quid-pro-quo exchange — Trump gets his political investigation of a top Democratic rival in return for some price to be paid by the new Ukraine leader — now at the heart of the House investigation.

 

There is much more to find if you take you blinkers off.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Vote on what?

It's one of the 45 fans talking points. Making a big thing that there hasn't been a full house vote on beginning the formal impeachment inquiry process. But they fail to mention that there is absolutely ZERO requirement legally or constitutionally for a full house vote to be done to begin the formal impeachment inquiry process that Pelosi has started FULLY LEGITIMATELY. 

[johnnybangkok]

55 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Trump could well have committed transgressions.

 

However, this is getting like the #metoo "revelations". When suddenly someone his denounced by multiple people. In this case the whistle blowers can remain anonymous as is their right. 

 

But after the Russian interference debacle, it does look like witch hunts and jumping on the bandwagon,

 

Of course the usual left wing posters jump on anything as gospel and present it as must be fact. Because that's what they want to believe. Just like they're not interested in wondering just how many Democrats have children who've got board seats on foreign companies and other organizations where there main skill seems to be who mummy and daddy are.

 

I'm no Trump fan, but pretending the Democrats are saintly, and as honest as the day is long is bunkum.

 

Trump, for whatever reasons, fell out with the intelligence community. And they've been stirring the pot ever since. I wonder of the Democrats have done the old lefty trick of making sure key appointments to intelligence agencies have, over time, always been filled with people with the "correct political views"? Nah, course not!

I don't know why you insist the Mueller probe was a 'debacle'.  A total of thirty-four individuals and three companies were indicted by Mueller's investigators and although not linked to Russia directly, Mueller has indicated that Trump is at least guilty of obstruction (and probably much, much more).

And when you say 'left wing posters jump on anything as gospel and present it as must be fact' are you referring to the things that are actually coming out of Trumps mouth because I'm not sure how much more factual you can get? He is saying these things. It's an undisputed transcript and he's standing on the WH lawn asking for China's help. We aren't making this up. It's there for all to see. 

Also, we all understand that nepotism is rife in politics (just look at the Trump family) and that 'jobs for the family' are common but that doesn't exonerate Trump and his actions in this case. If Bidens son is guilty of anything (and there is literally nothing to say he is at this stage) then an investigation through the appropriate channels should have been done. But by asking a foreign government to look into a political appointment (again straight out of Trumps mouth) he is guilty of undermining the integrity of US elections, violating the civil rights of US citizens and by calling on a foreign entity to assist in the investigation of a political rival, he is violating campaign finance laws.

None of this is being disputed so if you really are 'no Trump fan' then perhaps you could stop deflecting his actions and stoking conspiracy theories about a partisan intelligence community. It's not helpful and more importantly, it's unsubstantiated.  

   

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I don't know why you insist the Mueller probe was a 'debacle'.  A total of thirty-four individuals and three companies were indicted by Mueller's investigators and although not linked to Russia directly, Mueller has indicated that Trump is at least guilty of obstruction (and probably much, much more).

And when you say 'left wing posters jump on anything as gospel and present it as must be fact' are you referring to the things that are actually coming out of Trumps mouth because I'm not sure how much more factual you can get? He is saying these things. It's an undisputed transcript and he's standing on the WH lawn asking for China's help. We aren't making this up. It's there for all to see. 

Also, we all understand that nepotism is rife in politics (just look at the Trump family) and that 'jobs for the family' are common but that doesn't exonerate Trump and his actions in this case. If Bidens son is guilty of anything (and there is literally nothing to say he is at this stage) then an investigation through the appropriate channels should have been done. But by asking a foreign government to look into a political appointment (again straight out of Trumps mouth) he is guilty of undermining the integrity of US elections, violating the civil rights of US citizens and by calling on a foreign entity to assist in the investigation of a political rival, he is violating campaign finance laws.

None of this is being disputed so if you really are 'no Trump fan' then perhaps you could stop deflecting his actions and stoking conspiracy theories about a partisan intelligence community. It's not helpful and more importantly, it's unsubstantiated.  

   

Also, the Mueller report clearly indicated that it couldn't invoke obstruction of justice charges because of Dept. of Justice policy that a sitting president can't be indicted and it wouldn't be fair to Trump to put him in that position. For that reason, the report clearly indicated that there was another way to get to the bottom of this. That other way obviously being impeachment.

[Skallywag]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

President Trump personally ordered his staff to freeze more than $391 million in aid to Ukraine in the days before he pressed the new Ukrainian president to investigate the Democrats’ leading presidential candidate,

Thanks for posting some links.  I really have been dumbfounded since Trump took office and we see that the "checks and balances" of having 3 branches of government seems to mean diddly squat.

How can the U.S.A. still call itself a Constitutional republic, when most elected officials are corrupt or just plain ineffectual.  Sad really

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

You are beginning to sound like Harris in a city in the midst of urban decay.

And you aren't beginning but rather continuing to make utterly irrelevant comments

[hobz]

I hate Trump. I really do. All the lying. The racism. Destruction of Obama care. Etc.

 

That being said, I also hate injustice.

 

I have some questions: 

 

1. Is eye witness testimony enough to remove a president? Doesn't there need to be hard evidence? It would be too easy....

 

2. Does the president have the right to investigate ANYONE? Isn't almost EVERYBODY his political rival at some point? 

 

3. If Biden has nothing to hide, then the Ukraine won't find anything. And then Ukraine is not interfering in the election. If However Biden did something illegal in the Ukraine, then surely the public deserves to know about it. How is that Election interference?

 

4. Didnt Hillary get the infamous Trump dossier from a UK intelligence officer? Isnt that Also a foreign entity interfering in American election?

 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by hobz

[soalbundy]

5 hours ago, Tug said:

Not surprised some people care about America and democracy it takes great courage to stand up to a viscous mentally ill powerfull person especially when he has corrupted the system to support him but cracks are appearing soon the dam will break and a coup is not what is happening far from it it is a measured careful exposure of the facts 

It will only take a few more whistleblowers to come forward and then many GOP senators will suddenly discover that they have a backbone after all.

[sfokevin]

3 hours ago, amexpat said:

It wasn't dems who claimed for a decade that President Obama was born in Kenya, said the top priority was to make sure he was a one-termer, blocked voting on supreme court justice, voted against healthcare and everything else proposed by the winners. 

 

Not that you will stop claiming the opposite. Cult members can't change. 

Exactly!... Republicans should read a little history...

#Thelma&Louise

 

[Sujo]

7 minutes ago, hobz said:

I hate Trump. I really do. All the lying. The racism. Destruction of Obama care. Etc.

 

That being said, I also hate injustice.

 

I have some questions: 

 

1. Is eye witness testimony enough to remove a president? Doesn't there need to be hard evidence? It would be too easy....

 

2. Does the president have the right to investigate ANYONE? Isn't almost EVERYBODY his political rival at some point? 

 

3. If Biden has nothing to hide, then the Ukraine won't find anything. And then Ukraine is not interfering in the election. If However Biden did something illegal in the Ukraine, then surely the public deserves to know about it. How is that Election interference?

 

4. Didnt Hillary get the infamous Trump dossier from a UK intelligence officer? Isnt that Also a foreign entity interfering in American election?

 

 

1. Trump admitted he asked, then went further and asked china.

 

2. Yes the president can, but he cannot ask a foreign govt to do it.

 

3. Because it was already investigated and a nothing burger. Trump wanted it investigated again. But he should have asked his own agencies, not a foreign govt.

 

4. The dossier is from a FORMER intelligence officer. Not a govt official.

[cycolista]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

Dem .Sen.Schumer said a few years back in regards to our intel agencies and Mr Trump.

"Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/schumer-warns-trump-intel-officials-have-six-ways-from-sunday-at-getting-back-at-you

 

Many took this as a premonition

Well I wish they would get on with it then. 

[hobz]

12 minutes ago, Sujo said:

1. Trump admitted he asked, then went further and asked china.

 

2. Yes the president can, but he cannot ask a foreign govt to do it.

 

3. Because it was already investigated and a nothing burger. Trump wanted it investigated again. But he should have asked his own agencies, not a foreign govt.

 

4. The dossier is from a FORMER intelligence officer. Not a govt official.

Ok. So let me get this straight. What you are saying is that Trump can ask to investigate Biden but only if he asks his own government agencies to do it. Why didn't trump simply do that? Didn't he know it was illegal what he did?

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

it is being perceived by some right wing commentators as a coup attempt by the intelligence community.

And by crying COUP, some right wing commentators are simply parroting DJT's own, clenched fist, toys out of the pram tweet.

[NanLaew]

42 minutes ago, hobz said:

1. Is eye witness testimony enough to remove a president? Doesn't there need to be hard evidence? It would be too easy....

If you speak with just about any lawyer, be it defense or prosecution, they will agree that eyewitness testimony by itself isn't any sort of silver bullet.

 

42 minutes ago, hobz said:

2. Does the president have the right to investigate ANYONE? Isn't almost EVERYBODY his political rival at some point? 

Trump much prefers to tweet about alleged wrongdoing instead of actually use any of the constitutionally available investigatory mechanisms.

 

42 minutes ago, hobz said:

3. If Biden has nothing to hide, then the Ukraine won't find anything. And then Ukraine is not interfering in the election. If However Biden did something illegal in the Ukraine, then surely the public deserves to know about it. How is that Election interference?

The Ukrainians aren't Americans. You can't solicit the active help of a foreign government to influence or leverage a constitutional US procedure.

 

42 minutes ago, hobz said:

4. Didnt Hillary get the infamous Trump dossier from a UK intelligence officer? Isnt that Also a foreign entity interfering in American election?

Yes, but the source was a former UK intelligence operative, a private citizen per-se and not employed by or elected to a foreign government.

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by NanLaew

[hobz]

23 minutes ago, Sujo said:

1. Trump admitted he asked, then went further and asked china.

 

2. Yes the president can, but he cannot ask a foreign govt to do it.

 

3. Because it was already investigated and a nothing burger. Trump wanted it investigated again. But he should have asked his own agencies, not a foreign govt.

 

4. The dossier is from a FORMER intelligence officer. Not a govt official.

What does the law say. The law that trump is breaking. 

[candide]

11 minutes ago, hobz said:

Ok. So let me get this straight. What you are saying is that Trump can ask to investigate Biden but only if he asks his own government agencies to do it. Why didn't trump simply do that? Didn't he know it was illegal what he did?

My two cents:

- there is a legal process to be followed in order to start an official investigation, it's not only about the POTUS asking to do it. In particular, there must be a strong enough ground for starting it.

- he likely knew it was illegal.

BTW, all the issues you are wondering about have been extensively documented in this thread, with sources linked, quotes, etc.... You may benefit from reading it.

Edited October 7, 2019 by candide