Britain tells EU: compromise on Brexit or we'll get nasty: Spectator source

[melvinmelvin]

52 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Loo roll shortage no problem, we have a perfect alternative, indeed it's the only sensible use for the Sun and the Mail. Maybe they can even be persuaded to print their poison on softer paper. 

 

Sun and Mail? Bad choice, too stiff.

I'd much rather use this;

 

[tebee]

59 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The point that I made in the previous threads when we discussed this is was : "Would anyone who voted Brexit , not have voted Brexit and voted Remain instead, had the figure on the bus had been £ 250 Million .?

  I have forgotten how you replied to that last time we talked about it 

But so many brexiters have changed their tune - trying to change history retrospectively.

 

[kevin612]

Boris Johnson is the right guy for brexit 

[Rocking Robert]

On 10/8/2019 at 8:55 PM, JonnyF said:

Remainers always resort to calling people racists and fascists when they've lost the argument, take it as a compliment when they reach that point, it's all they have left .

So true 

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

It can be proven that the Earth isnt flat .

It cannot be proven that people were "conned" into voting Brexit .

Many Brexit people have wanted to leave the EU for years and didnt even need any help in deciding which way to vote  

Of course there has always been eurosceptics but not to the extent you make out.

Those that did not understand brexit were misled by politicians that did not understand brexit.

One factor that many would rather ignore is the anti government sentiment that existed at the time as a result of a prolonged period of austerity. The irony is that those that voted against the government because of austerity were in fact voting for further austerity.

[baboon]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

The point that I made in the previous threads when we discussed this is was : "Would anyone who voted Brexit , not have voted Brexit and voted Remain instead, had the figure on the bus had been £ 250 Million .?

  I have forgotten how you replied to that last time we talked about it 

I don't know the answer. Maybe some would have voted remain instead, maybe they wouldn't.

But it misses the point, rather. The point about the more vociferous Brexit supporters' claims in retrospect that they wanted out because they believed the project fear claims they were deriding. That's like proudly voting for Margaret Thatcher because you support Jeremy Corbyn.

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, tebee said:

But so many brexiters have changed their tune - trying to change history retrospectively.

You mean like the farmers that campaigned to leave.

Those that thought they were well informed were not so informed as they thought they were.

 

NFU President Minette Batters said: “Without the maintenance of tariff protections, we are in danger of opening up the UK to imported food which would be illegal to be produced here, produced at a lower cost because it may fail to meet the environmental and animal welfare standards which are legally required of our own farmers - flooding our market and resulting in unsustainable price falls.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-tariff-latest-plans-farmers-betrayed-imported-food-standards-a9147836.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=INDNEWS%2309102019&utm_term=IND_Headlines_Masterlist_CDP

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Sun and Mail? Bad choice, too stiff.

I'd much rather use this;

 

Fake roll.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

I don't know the answer. Maybe some would have voted remain instead, maybe they wouldn't.

But it misses the point, rather. The point about the more vociferous Brexit supporters' claims in retrospect that they wanted out because they believed the project fear claims they were deriding. That's like proudly voting for Margaret Thatcher because you support Jeremy Corbyn.

What vociferous Brexit supporters' claims? You are making stuff up.

[nauseus]

12 hours ago, david555 said:

Mean time in emergency  need ….5555 lol????

We are not amused. 

[david555]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

We are not amused. 

But you would be amused using a € bill , I am sure ….????

[stephenterry]

20 hours ago, jayboy said:

This is pretty superficial stuff.Ultimately currency trends have little to do with Brexit notwithstanding short term reactions.In any case Sterling has been on a downward trend with the US$ for decades.But there's no reason to expect the £ to decline long term against the Euro, Brexit or not.

Apologies for cutting this extract. The actuality is that downward trends of the pound since 2016 has much to do with Brexit - which effect has been statistically proven previously on this forum. I would wager that any downward trend has accelerated owing to Brexit, as being the factual truism.

 

 

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, david555 said:

But you would be amused using a € bill , I am sure ….????

No. I'm not vindictive like you. 

[jayboy]

15 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Apologies for cutting this extract. The actuality is that downward trends of the pound since 2016 has much to do with Brexit - which effect has been statistically proven previously on this forum. I would wager that any downward trend has accelerated owing to Brexit, as being the factual truism.

 

 

Don't apologise for cutting the extract.It's completely legitimate since you didn't distort the original message.

 

I take your point but would emphasize that in the longer term all currencies rise and fall depending on supply and demand.Brexit may be a factor.Post Brexit the main factors will be economic growth and Bank of England monetary policy.

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

Don't apologise for cutting the extract.It's completely legitimate since you didn't distort the original message.

 

I take your point but would emphasize that in the longer term all currencies rise and fall depending on supply and demand.Brexit may be a factor.Post Brexit the main factors will be economic growth and Bank of England monetary policy.

In the long term I'll be dead. It's my current situation since 2016 that I'm concerned about, being mainly Brexit induced. And I can see that continuing post Brexit (if it happens) for at least another 3 years, if not more.

 

Unless, of course, the tories get blown out at the next GE. And some sanity returns.

[el torro]

It was always the 'remain at any cost' crew that were conned - as even though they agree the EU needs serious reform, they accept the EU refusing to reform....

 

Even when it's obvious that more than a few of the electorate throughout the EU are becoming ever more sceptical about EU politicians....

[el torro]

13 hours ago, baboon said:

I am afraid I cannot agree with you at all.

The chief 'leavers' will always point the finger of blame elsewhere, no matter what. Hell, they have even stopped pretending that they believe the UK will be tangibly better off. And their support base will never admit to having been conned, probably not even to themselves in private moments alone. There will be no calling to account.

Sorry, this should have been quoted as the post to which I was replying.

[el torro]

13 hours ago, baboon said:

Funny how at the time they weren't pointing out that while they were all for Brexit, they didn't believe that the 350 Million for the NHS was true. Or all that nonsense about the 'easiest deal in history'.

So that makes them as dishonest as the tricksters who did try to sell that nonsense, when all the while they wanted their country to be poorer and its clout in the world reduced.

Because they are 'True Patriots' and the like, as many of their namesakes would have us believe on the wider internet.

 

The EU isn't perfect to any degree. But I would far rather be with them than the dubious characters who seem to want to divide people and sow hate.

What a load of rubbish!

 

But I did like this point "The EU isn't perfect to any degree."

 

Do you seriously think that if UK and EU politicians are allowed to get away with (yet again, in the case of the EU) sabotaging the referendum result - the EU politicians will agree to reform??

 

And if UK politicians are allowed to get away with thwarting the referendum result, they will (IMO) be even worse in the future .

[el torro]

11 hours ago, baboon said:

No need. The bus thing happened. No Thaivisa member who wishes to leave the EU pointed out at the time that they did not believe the bold claim on the side of the bus.

My point stands.

The first time I heard about 'the bus' was when it was brought up after the referendum.

 

And repeated endlessly by remainers as a reason why brexiteers were 'thick'....  Unlike the remainers, who are the only ones who believe, think or care about the bus....????

[el torro]

11 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Loo roll shortage no problem, we have a perfect alternative, indeed it's the only sensible use for the Sun and the Mail. Maybe they can even be persuaded to print their poison on softer paper. 

You forgot the Express and, sadly, the Guardian/Independent (????) and Telegraph.

 

Newspapers are making it ever more clear that they are far from unbiased.

 

This has always been the case obviously - but hopefully it will be a 'wake up' call to those with an open mind that all their reporting is biased in one way or another.

 

David555's post that brexit would lead to a shortage of toilet paper ???? pretty much encapsulates most of what has been said in MSM!

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

Post Brexit the main factors will be economic growth and Bank of England monetary policy.

The main factor will be borrowing, growth is forecast to be about half of what it's been. The brexit dividend was never anything more than a myth.

 

* Borrowing set to be more than £50bn next year – more than double the official forecast as recently as March.

* At 2.3 per cent, this would breach the ceiling of 2 per cent of national income, imposed by the chancellor’s own fiscal rules.

* Even a “relatively benign no-deal Brexit” would send borrowing close to the £100bn mark – and debt to almost 90 per cent of national income for the first time since the mid 1960s.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-economy-brexit-boris-johnson-institute-fiscal-studies-growth-exports-a9146386.html

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

 

 

Unless, of course, the tories get blown out at the next GE. And some sanity returns.

Yes I'm quite sure that the international currency markets will react very positively to a far left socialist as PM with a policy of nationalisation, expropriation of assets, and penal taxes on business.

[Jip99]

. 

[Jip99]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Of course there has always been eurosceptics but not to the extent you make out.

Those that did not understand brexit were misled by politicians that did not understand brexit.

One factor that many would rather ignore is the anti government sentiment that existed at the time as a result of a prolonged period of austerity. The irony is that those that voted against the government because of austerity were in fact voting for further austerity.

 

 

Presumably they didn’t understand in 2017 whey returned the Tory government. That was despite Corbyn promising to wipe out student loans and T. May screwing up with their manifesto.

 

Don’t worry, Farage will come out to play this time - and play he will. He has already been campaigning and will likely attract 5-10m votes. 

[sandyf]

14 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Yes I'm quite sure that the international currency markets will react very positively to a far left socialist as PM with a policy of nationalisation, expropriation of assets, and penal taxes on business.

Bit of a far fetched assumption. I would suspect that a GE will result in another Tory /Lib Dem coalition.

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Presumably they didn’t understand in 2017 whey returned the Tory government. That was despite Corbyn promising to wipe out student loans and T. May screwing up with their manifesto.

 

Don’t worry, Farage will come out to play this time - and play he will. He has already been campaigning and will likely attract 5-10m votes. 

You are perfectly free to believe that a vote against JC was a vote for brexit.

A GE never has and never will provide an answer to the brexit question. If the 2017 GE had answered the question then we wouldn't be in this mess. TM threw away the majority and had to bribe the DUP, what sort of answer was that.

It is highly likely that come the GE the vote will be more distributed than ever before. You are probably quite right that Farage will take a hefty slice of the vote but no one is going to get into bed with him and there is every chance there will have to be an alliance.

[sandyf]

The government is said to be considering sending a second letter to the EU along with the first letter required by the Benn Act requesting an extension to Article.

Asked on ITV’s Peston if Johnson could still send a second letter explaining he doesn’t actually want an extension, business secretary Andrea Leadsom replied: “Absolutely”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-news-live-latest-brexit-today-eu-letter-no-deal-deaths-a9149946.html

 

The EU are not going to bend over for Johnson, every chance they will take the

view that as the letter is subject to an act of parliament, any amendment would need to be approved by parliament and just grant the extension. 

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

14 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Yes I'm quite sure that the international currency markets will react very positively to a far left socialist as PM with a policy of nationalisation, expropriation of assets, and penal taxes on business.

IN REPLY TO:-    2 hours ago,  stephenterry said: 

Unless, of course, the tories get blown out at the next GE. And some sanity returns.

 

Brexit has already amounted to a  "penal tax on business", - or many businesses I should say - damaging some and driving others out of the country. 

Personally I don't think massive re- nationalization is a good idea, the  "State good private bad" duopoly has always been idiotic. Many State run businesses are overmanned, expensive (If monopolies), inefficient, and believe they can treat customers like sh#t. The workers are un-sackable unless you are a whistleblower. Taking the profiteers out of the NHS would be an excellent move though. 

 

Corbyn is running at a steady 16-18% popularity with the general public, the greatest thing he could do for his party is to step down. Even then the Labour Party are never going to win an overall majority, their power would be restricted as things stand, so have no fears. The LP seats in Scotland are going the way of the Dodo for a start. However the demise of the worst Tory government I have seen in my lifetime would be a great blessing for UK, and indeed the rest of the world. Rarely in politics has a cabinet so dishonest, inadequate, self serving, uncaring, venal, and incompetent ever been assembled. 

[nauseus]

58 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The main factor will be borrowing, growth is forecast to be about half of what it's been. The brexit dividend was never anything more than a myth.

 

* Borrowing set to be more than £50bn next year – more than double the official forecast as recently as March.

* At 2.3 per cent, this would breach the ceiling of 2 per cent of national income, imposed by the chancellor’s own fiscal rules.

* Even a “relatively benign no-deal Brexit” would send borrowing close to the £100bn mark – and debt to almost 90 per cent of national income for the first time since the mid 1960s.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-economy-brexit-boris-johnson-institute-fiscal-studies-growth-exports-a9146386.html

If it's austerity it's bad. If it's extra spending/borrowing it's bad. This decision is not dependent on Brexit.

 

 

 

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

Of course there has always been eurosceptics but not to the extent you make out.

Those that did not understand brexit were misled by politicians that did not understand brexit.

One factor that many would rather ignore is the anti government sentiment that existed at the time as a result of a prolonged period of austerity. The irony is that those that voted against the government because of austerity were in fact voting for further austerity.

You obviously have no idea how many leavers have understood what, why and for how long.