Compulsory Health insurance for 0-A visa applicants effective 31st October

[Lovethailandelite]

2 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

OK. No worries. If you're not, you're not.  I'm not trying to be confrontational, just curious.  I'm not a tour guide, btw, nor am I ever likely be one ????

It's OK. I was just having a laugh with you. My name is just a simple screen name. Nothing more lol

[lupin]

3 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It is treated as a kind of tourist visa. Tourist visas are not stamped in for a 12 month stay. The visa class is printed on the visa as 'PE'

 

I know, I know, I know ... I am on my second PE, had the conversation in TV couple of days ago... quoted Thaielites own website (faq explicitly states what class it falls under). Not gonna get into it again since what they say and what others say seem to be in conflict

????

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by lupin
speeeeeling

[Tuvoc]

5 minutes ago, lupin said:

Had this convo couple of days ago... as far as Thailand elite/TAT says, the PE falls under the tourist visa class. But there seems to be a lot of contention over whether their claim is true or not.

 

It is an odd one, they promote it for business travellers who come to Thailand and also for long stay purposes. If the intent of the government is eventually to require all long-stay aliens to have health insurance, then Elite holders are potentially in scope since a lot of them use it for retirement / quasi residency.

[lupin]

1 minute ago, Tuvoc said:

 

It is an odd one, they promote it for business travellers who come to Thailand and also for long stay purposes. If the intent of the government is eventually to require all long-stay aliens to have health insurance, then Elite holders are potentially in scope since a lot of them use it for retirement / quasi residency.

Agree... then again it is owned/operated by Tourism Authority of Thailand

[lupin]

3 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

 

It is an odd one, they promote it for business travellers who come to Thailand and also for long stay purposes. If the intent of the government is eventually to require all long-stay aliens to have health insurance, then Elite holders are potentially in scope since a lot of them use it for retirement / quasi residency.

the really interesting thing though is IF it falls under the tourist visa class AND tourist visa class wont likely to ever be required to have thai health insurance ... then... ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 minutes ago, lupin said:

Agree... then again it is owned/operated by Tourism Authority of Thailand

 

Which apparently is unwilling at least for now to impose an insurance requirement on tourist visitors (the vastly larger population of folks coming to Thailand compared to O-A holders) out of fear doing so will curtail their precious tourist visitor numbers.

 

If the authorities were really serious about dealing with unpaid farang medical bills at government hospitals, which is their claim, there's no way in the world they could/should leave the tourist visitors without an insurance requirement.

 

But that's exactly what they're doing thus far, and it suggests the hypocrisy of their policies and their explanations for them.

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lupin]

On a side note ... chonburi immigration website seems to have been hacked http://www.immchonburi.go.th/main/ bahahahaa

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, lupin said:

the really interesting thing though is IF it falls under the tourist visa class AND tourist visa class wont likely to ever be required to have thai health insurance ... then... ????

 

I'm waiting for the future news article about some farang old codger here who can't get the govt. required health insurance at all or at any decent price in his advanced years, who thus spends a boatload to buy a Thailand Elite visa and thus avoid the Immigration insurance requirement...

 

Only then to later end up in a Thai government hospital with some serious malady and unable to pay his medical bills -- because he spent his nest egg buying a PE visa in order to be able to remain in Thailand.

 

Assuming the PE remains exempt from the Immigration insurance requirement, surely that day is going to come....  

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lupin]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm waiting for the future news article about some farang old codger here who can't get the govt. required health insurance at all or at any decent price in his advanced years, who thus spends a boatload to buy a Thailand Elite visa and thus avoid the Immigration insurance requirement...

 

Only then to later end up in a Thai government hospital with some serious malady and unable to pay his medical bills because he spent his nest egg buying a PE visa in order to be able to remain in Thailand.

 

Assuming the PE remains exempt from the Immigration insurance requirement, surely that day is going to come....

 

no doubt will be a sound decision to buy a 20 year PE at the spritely age of 104.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, lupin said:

no doubt will be a sound decision to buy a 20 year PE at the spritely age of 104.

 

If you look at the current O-A policy insurance rates once people start reaching 70 and above, those are a pretty strong incentive to find some other solution. Not to mention that a lot of the current insurers won't write new policies as people get older and/or won't continue existing policies past certain ages.

 

Unless something significant changes with the current insurance setup, the insurance requirement is going to become an increasingly dire problem, either financially or in terms of availability, as people get older and older.

 

[EricTh]

On 10/9/2019 at 2:08 PM, ubonjoe said:

Let's make it clear that it is only for those who already have a still valid OA long stay visa.

Front the police order.

 

Sorry, is that for new applicants only?

 

How about those who have renewed their retirement visas for several years?

[Lovethailandelite]

35 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Which apparently is unwilling at least for now to impose an insurance requirement on tourist visitors (the vastly larger population of folks coming to Thailand compared to O-A holders) out of fear doing so will curtail their precious tourist visitor numbers.

 

If the authorities were really serious about dealing with unpaid farang medical bills at government hospitals, which is their claim, there's no way in the world they could/should leave the tourist visitors without an insurance requirement.

 

But that's exactly what they're doing thus far, and it suggests the hypocrisy of their policies and their explanations for them.

 

I believe, for now they are just working on the over 50 year old High risk category starting with the O-A visa and extensions of: There is far too much money to be made from Tourists arriving in to Thailand without Travel Insurance and to be able to sell them a policy before they can enter to ignore them.
Remember that only last month it was reported all this Health Insurance suggestion had gone away and been put to bed? ???? 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Lovethailandelite

[lupin]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If you look at the current O-A policy insurance rates once people start reaching 70 and above, those are a pretty strong incentive to find some other solution. Not to mention that a lot of the current insurers won't write new policies as people get older and/or won't continue existing policies past certain ages.

 

Unless something significant changes with the current insurance setup, the insurance requirement is going to become an increasingly dire problem, either financially or in terms of availability, as people get older and older.

 

I agree... I believe you and I have the same policy from the same provider. I wouldn't even consider staying in Thailand long term without it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Remember that only last month it was reported all this Health Insurance suggestion had gone away and been put to bed?

 

The way I read that news report was as pertaining to the tourist insurance proposal that had been floated previously....  And that it wouldn't be considered at least until into 2020.

 

In general, I believe people should have health insurance or some other suitable replacement. But until the government here applies the insurance requirement also to the tourist population, their claims about farang unpaid bills at govt. hospitals are hollow rhetoric.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I believe, for now they are just working on the over 50 year old High risk category starting with the O-A visa and extensions of: 

 

I'd argue the higher risk category are the drunken 20-40 year old motorcycle riders jetting about Thailand on their two-week millionaire holidays until they end up getting nailed or nailing others, and finding themselves laid up in some Thai hospital with broken heads, limbs, etc...

 

Those are the types who you regularly see the "go fund me" pleas from for people stuck in Thai hospitals -- not the 60-70 year old codgers living quietly at home tending to their gardens or typing posts on ThaiVisa!

 

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, Tuvoc said:

 

It is an odd one, they promote it for business travellers who come to Thailand and also for long stay purposes. If the intent of the government is eventually to require all long-stay aliens to have health insurance, then Elite holders are potentially in scope since a lot of them use it for retirement / quasi residency.

Suppose there is a “quality” tourist as can be: wealthy, spending tons of money, supporting Thai families, making investments and being able to self finance any health issue.

 

But he is diabetic - a quite common disease but preventing to get insurance.

 

Do you think the authorities want him to leave only because of an insurance over the ridiculously small amount of 400KTHB coverage ? Which would not even help in a serious case ?

Edited October 14, 2019 by moogradod

[Lovethailandelite]

24 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The way I read that news report was as pertaining to the tourist insurance proposal that had been floated previously....  And that it wouldn't be considered at least until into 2020.

 

In general, I believe people should have health insurance or some other suitable replacement. But until the government here applies the insurance requirement also to the tourist population, their claims about farang unpaid bills at govt. hospitals are hollow rhetoric.

 

 

I was referring more to this bloke and others like him regarding the O-A Medical Insurance gone away.
 

 

[lupin]

3 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I was referring more to this bloke and others like him regarding the O-A Medical Insurance gone away.
 

 

I think I need to go do 20 Sudoku puzzles to regain the IQ points I feel I've lost after watching that

[Sheryl]

Sorry, is that for new applicants only?

 

How about those who have renewed their retirement visas for several years?

A visa cannot be renewed.

 

Are you asking about getting subsequent new O-A visas? If so then they will definitely fall under the insurance requirement if issued after 31 October. These are vonsideted new visas, diesn't matter how many you had in the past, each time you have to mwet whatever the current requirements are.

 

Or are you asking about extensions of permission of stay? And if so, was original permission granted under an O or O-A visa?

 

If an extension of permission to stay and initial permission came under an O visa the requirement does not apply. If the initial permission to stay came under an O-A visa opinions differ but some would say it applies. However it would be for future extensions nade after Oct 31, you can finish out any existing permission to stay without it.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[The Man Who Sold the World]

The problem with this is; 1) it is a new requirement, 2) we are reading an English translation, and, most importantly, 3) the enforcement of this regulation is up to the individual Immigration Office.

 

We really will not know just what this means, how it will be enforced and just who it will impact until the reports start coming in. Hopefully the impact on existing Visa holders and their extensions will be minimal. 

 

   

[MartinKal]

1. A common-sense understanding is that the thai authorities want foreign residents to have health insurance. And more specifically, for health expenses of up to 40,000b outpatient and 400,000 inpatient. 

 

2. Then the part concerning the target group: only those applying for a retirement visa.  So those on an extension of stay are not subject to this requirement.

 

I get point 1, but cannot understand why existing residents would be exempted, pt 2. Any ideas?

Edited October 14, 2019 by MartinKal

[moogradod]

6 minutes ago, MartinKal said:

..... cannot understand why existing residents would be exempted, pt 2. Any ideas?

Would this understanding help anybody ? Should not this be the focus ?

[Martyp]

16 minutes ago, MartinKal said:

1. A common-sense understanding is that the thai authorities want foreign residents to have health insurance. And more specifically, for health expenses of up to 40,000b outpatient and 400,000 inpatient. 

 

2. Then the part concerning the target group: only those applying for a retirement visa.  So those on an extension of stay are not subject to this requirement.

 

I get point 1, but cannot understand why existing residents would be exempted, pt 2. Any ideas?

For #2 the argument would be that the new requirement is not retroactive.  Ubon Joe has said that they have never made a new regulation retroactive.

[Lovethailandelite]

54 minutes ago, lupin said:

I think I need to go do 20 Sudoku puzzles to regain the IQ points I feel I've lost after watching that

He won't be toasting now ????

[Sheryl]

Sheryl... do you know if in fact it is possible for a foreigner, who is married to a government employee, is covered by government health insurance if they ARE NOT on a marriage visa /extension? If they must be on such a marriage visa/extension to qualify, then presumably this wont affect them

If you are asking whether a foreigner on an O-A visa and covered under the Civil Service SS by virtue of marriage to a Thai iz exempted from the indurance requirwment at pdesent NO.

Nobody is exempted, not people covered by either SS system, not people covered in Thailand through public or private schemes of their home country and not people who are una le to get a policy here because of age or pre-existing vonditions.

One can hope it will change but at present no exemptions for anyone. People who already have guaranteed access to free health are in Thailand would still be required to buy one of these policies.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[lupin]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

If you are asking whether a foreigner on an O-A visa and covered under the Civil Service SS by virtue of marriage to a Thai iz exempted from the indurance requirwment at pdesent NO.

Nobody is exempted, not people covered by either SS system, not people covered in Thailand through public or private schemes of their home country and not people who are una le to get a policy here because of age or pre-existing vonditions.

One can hope it will change but at present no exemptions for anyone. People who already have guaranteed access to free health are in Thailand would still be required to buy one of these policies.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

No I get that... I was wondering if those on say a visa exemption (as an extreme example) can be covered under the Civil Service SS by virtue of marriage to a Thai, even though not on a marriage visa/extension. But it appears you've covered that and they are in fact covered.

[Sheryl]

No I get that... I was wondering if those on say a visa exemption (as an extreme example) can be covered under the Civil Service SS by virtue of marriage to a Thai, even though not on a marriage visa/extension. But it appears you've covered that and they are in fact covered.

Yes. The relevant law makes no distinction by nationality and does not discuss visa status.

A legal spouse is covered, period.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[The Man Who Sold the World]

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

For #2 the argument would be that the new requirement is not retroactive.  Ubon Joe has said that they have never made a new regulation retroactive.

If they made the requirement retroactive there is the issue of collateral damage. There are certainly people who are supporting a Thai wife and children who would not be able to get insurance due to age, pre-existing conditions and/or   cost. 

 

These people would be forced out of Thailand, abandoning their families. Humanitarian crisis? 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

For #2 the argument would be that the new requirement is not retroactive.  Ubon Joe has said that they have never made a new regulation retroactive.

 

The Immigration regulations recently released don't mainly deal with the date a visa was issued in the past. They deal more with dates of entry into Thailand that will occur from Oct. 31 onward. So in that context, covering new issue visas and prior issue visas for entries from the Oct. 31 date onward is not being retroactive.

 

[Martyp]

53 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The Immigration regulations recently released don't mainly deal with the date a visa was issued in the past. They deal more with dates of entry into Thailand that will occur from Oct. 31 onward. So in that context, covering new issue visas and prior issue visas for entries from the Oct. 31 date onward is not being retroactive.

 

By not retroactive I'm saying (or suggesting) that I don't buy the argument that if you came on an O-A visa 10 years ago and you are now on 1-year extensions that these new regulations have any application to you. Not now. Not in the future.

 

I will just wait it out and see what transpires next month.

 

The depth of speculation and paranoia on TVF, while entertaining, is hardly useful.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Martyp