Compulsory Health insurance for 0-A visa applicants effective 31st October

[Martyp]

1 hour ago, lupin said:

There are also financial requirements for the OX visa obtained outside the kingdom (3 million thb before and 1.4 million after thb)... yet this visa ALSO requires health insurance. So the "resources to stay here" based on money in the bank argument is not consistent or seemingly relevant.

You are right. I forget about the OX because nobody actually gets it.

[Sheryl]

I presume you are focusing on item 6) there? It truly is difficult to understand this English translation. Reading it literally, every single person who has ever been granted an O-A, who now applies for a  retirement extension, will fall under this insurance requirement and limitation. Will one be required to bring old passports to prove no O-A has ever existed in their life? 
I also consider Ubonjoe's comment here.
https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1128259-extend-year-visa-where-and-how-long-before/?do=findComment&comment=14663059

The type of visa originally entered on is typically notated into a new passport when you go to Imm to transfer the permission of stay stamp or get next extension.

But even if not it will be in the computer.

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[saengd]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

You would be well advised to switch from extension based on retirement to extension based on marriage.

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Thank you for the recommendation but can you tell me why? I understand the 400k vs 800k aspect but the underlying visa would remain an O-A visa would it not hence the insurance aspect doesn't go away?

[lupin]

Probably right ????

 

Brings up and interesting comparison now though. Financials aside on the OX aside, if one of the other reasons people didn't show any interest in was because of the health insurance reqs... then it may get a big more interest now that the OA requires it too.

[Sheryl]

Thank you for the recommendation but can you tell me why? I understand the 400k vs 800k aspect but the underlying visa would remain an O-A visa would it not hence the insurance aspect doesn't go away?

The way I read the police order it is only for seeking permission to stay or Extension of Stay based on retirement under an O-A and would not apply to an Extension based on marrriage even if original visa was O-A.

But if you want to be totally sure could leave and return on an O before next extension.

Maybe wait first to see if the rule is being applied to extensions for O-As issued prior to 31 Oct in your province as insurance will be a non-issue if not. (Though personally I'd still do it if you use the lump sum method. Not only is the required amount less but you don't have the spending limitation).



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[cheeryble]

I personally do not understand why it is not reasonable to be expected to have medical insurance cover here in Thailand.

 

Everyone knows or should be aware of the non provisions for expats and should accept responsibility to make sure they have adequate cover.

 

I personally feel obliged to make sure, should I have need of it I am covered and carry a medical card around with me all the time.

 

I am now 75 and came here 27 years ago and have been covered from the day my initial 180 UK I had ran out.

 

Sure the premiums go up but I am safe in the knowledge I can depend on it should the need ever arise.

 

I'm not sure what the alternatives are but do know that without back up funds or M. Ins. your chances of getting free cover are zero as of the last time I read an article covering this important subject.

 

There could also be a massive bill being issued to your loved ones following the initial emergency treatment we are allowed ?????

 

Get insured you know it makes sense

 

Busby

 

 

I prefer to pay for myself and choose where I will be treated and buy meds and not pay for others who are insured and automatically go to the most expensive places.

I prefer not to pay for insurance offices and staff and advertising etc, and not be subject to their decisions.

In some instances if time allows I may decide to return for free treatment in the country in which I paid in in my younger years to benefit in my older years.

 

I would end with a question:

I have at least one chronic condition which will certainly not get covered by insurance. Do insurance companies reduce premiums if they reduce their potential payouts by reducing conditions covered?

 

I understand there’s a place for insurance but not for me thanks

 

 

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[Lovethailandelite]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Laws do not stem from Police orders. The other way around. Police orders are designed to operationalize laws. And they have considerable latitude in how to do this given the very general wording of most laws. They have chosen in this instance to focus on peopoe with O-A visas.

The Immigration law had not been amended for years and does not mention health insurance at sll hence the need for the recent Cabinet Resolution.

I do not see the relevance of the fact that the Immigration Law does not describe O-A as a separate visa category from O to this. The Police Order, in both Englush and Thai, clearly specifies O-A visa.

If what he means is that based on the Immigration Law and wording of the Cabinet resolution TI could, if they chose, issue an order requiring insurance for retirees on O vidas then yes, I agree. But to date they have not done so.



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Yes my bad. You are correct. I should of added a lot more to my reply

[Tuvoc]

If the O-A is just the starting point and they intend to extend this further as time goes on, I wonder how the Elite Visa would be affected. Would they be so bold as to touch that ?  Existing holders probably not, but new applicant maybe. If someone got a 20 year Elite before any changes, it may end up being either an inspired decision or else a really bad one. But nevertheless, I'm very likely to get health insurance for myself anyway.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Tuvoc

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

The way I read the police order it is only for seeking permission to stay or Extension of Stay based on retirement under an O-A and would not apply to an Extension based on marrriage even if original visa was O-A.

But if you want to be totally sure could leave and return on an O before next extension.

Maybe wait first to see if the rule is being applied to extensions for O-As issued prior to 31 Oct in your province as insurance will be a non-issue if not. (Though personally I'd still do it if you use the lump sum method. Not only is the required amount less but you don't have the spending limitation).



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It isn't mentioned because as far as I can remember, it isn't possible to get an extension for being married from an O-A. It never has been. Hence, I doubt they would allow switching from a retirement extension based on an O-A to one for being married.

[lupin]

9 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

If the O-A is just the starting point and they intend to extend this further as time goes on, I wonder how the Elite Visa would be affected. Would they be so bold as to touch that ?  Existing holders probably not, but new applicant maybe. If someone got a 20 year Elite before any changes, it may end up being either an inspired decision or else a really bad one. But nevertheless, I'm very likely to get health insurance for myself anyway.

????  got mine last Wednesday... but yes, I'm aware insurance reqs may be applied at a later date.

[sqwakvfr]

I just checked the MFA website and no mention of Health Insurance under Non Immigrant Visa OA(Long Stay).  Under Channels of Submission this somewhat confusing line:

 

 

Channels to submit application

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

 

So I can submit my application at Immigration? 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

I wonder how the Elite Visa would be affected. Would they be so bold as to touch that ?  Existing holders probably not, but new applicant maybe. If someone got a 20 year Elite before any changes, it may end up being either an inspired decision or else a really bad one.

 

I've asked @Lovethailandelite that question here via a post yesterday. And thus far, he hasn't offered any comment on what the new Immigration insurance requirements will or won't mean for current and future Elite Visa holders....

 

That seems particularly pertinent, especially after he posted yesterday that Immigration is planning to extend the insurance requirement to all non-immigrant visa classes sometime in the coming weeks.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I just checked the MFA website and no mention of Health Insurance under Non Immigrant Visa OA(Long Stay).  Under Channels of Submission this somewhat confusing line:

 

 

Channels to submit application

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

 

So I can submit my application at Immigration? 

 

The insurance requirement has already been added to the Thai London Embassy's website section for O-A visas.... Various others haven't been updated thus far.

 

[Sheryl]

14 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It isn't mentioned because as far as I can remember, it isn't possible to get an extension for being married from an O-A. It never has been. Hence, I doubt they would allow switching from a retirement extension based on an O-A to one for being married.

 

Yes, it is possible you would have to first either get visa type changed to O in-country (if possible) or leave and come back under an O.

[Tuvoc]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I've asked @Lovethailandelite that question here via a post yesterday. And thus far, he hasn't offered any comment on what the new Immigration insurance requirements will or won't mean for current and future Elite Visa holders....

 

That seems particularly pertinent, especially after he posted yesterday that Immigration is planning to extend the insurance requirement to all non-immigrant visa classes sometime in the coming weeks.

 

I suspect he hasn't offered any comment because he doesn't know yet.

 

Given that Thai Elite are not exempt from TM28, TM30, 90 day reports etc they may well not be exempt from any future insurance requirement. Or maybe they will be and part of the plan is to rake in a lot of cash from pushing people in the Elite direction.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Tuvoc

[rabas]

18 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It isn't mentioned because as far as I can remember, it isn't possible to get an extension for being married from an O-A. It never has been. Hence, I doubt they would allow switching from a retirement extension based on an O-A to one for being married.

 

Take a look at this post from yesterday, apparently its trivial.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1127739-compulsory-health-insurance-for-0-a-visa-applicants-effective-31st-october/?do=findComment&comment=14664271

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes they transferred the original visa information, but the point I was making is I am now on a marriage extension after originally entering on an OA visa. I am not tied to the visa I came on when it comes to extensions.

 

Likewise, I've always understood it's no problem to transition directly from a retirement extension, once it's coming to an end, to a new marriage extension, obviously assuming you meet the marriage extension requirements.

 

In my case, the only actual visas I've ever had were two B visas that I originally entered the country on... And my first and ensuing extensions were retirement extensions flowing from that those B visas. (I can't find any mention of even an in-country O visa being done in my passport between the B visas and the retirement extensions.).

Edited October 14, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Lovethailandelite]

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I've asked @Lovethailandelite that question here via a post yesterday. And thus far, he hasn't offered any comment on what the new Immigration insurance requirements will or won't mean for current and future Elite Visa holders....

 

That seems particularly pertinent, especially after he posted yesterday that Immigration is planning to extend the insurance requirement to all non-immigrant visa classes sometime in the coming weeks.

I won't comment any further until there is a concrete link I can post. That would be pointless and start another argument. Suffice to say though, I am not the only one pointing to this route. I caught a cold before with this O-A visa and particularly with the E visa news. It actually happened rather later than I said it would. I am not aware of anything changing with the way Thailand Elite operates at this time.

[Lovethailandelite]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Likewise, I've always understood it's no problem to transition directly from a retirement extension, once it's coming to an end, to a new marriage extension, obviously assuming you meet the marriage extension requirements.

I don't believe it is possible to go from an O-A to an extension on marriage. Only to retirement. Marriage would need to start from a simple 'O' visa. 

[Exploring Thailand]

5 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I won't comment any further until there is a concrete link I can post. That would be pointless and start another argument. Suffice to say though, I am not the only one pointing to this route. I caught a cold before with this O-A visa and particularly with the E visa news. It actually happened rather later than I said it would. I am not aware of anything changing with the way Thailand Elite operates at this time.

Are you in some way associated with Thailand Elite?

[lupin]

29 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I've asked @Lovethailandelite that question here via a post yesterday. And thus far, he hasn't offered any comment on what the new Immigration insurance requirements will or won't mean for current and future Elite Visa holders....

 

That seems particularly pertinent, especially after he posted yesterday that Immigration is planning to extend the insurance requirement to all non-immigrant visa classes sometime in the coming weeks.

I thought we'd already gone over this and established the PE is not a NON Immigrant visa

[Tuvoc]

1 minute ago, lupin said:

I thought we'd already gone over this and established the PE is not a NON Immigrant visa

 

Sure, but that doesn't mean that they can't or won't change the rules for it.

[Lovethailandelite]

2 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Are you in some way associated with Thailand Elite?

Absolutely 100% not. Are you a tour guide? ???? 

[lupin]

Just now, Tuvoc said:

 

Sure, but that doesn't mean that they can't or won't change the rules for it.

Agreed but I was replying to the comment that .... " seems particularly pertinent, especially after he posted yesterday that Immigration is planning to extend the insurance requirement to all non-immigrant visa classes sometime in the coming weeks. "

[Lovethailandelite]

5 minutes ago, lupin said:

I thought we'd already gone over this and established the PE is not a NON Immigrant visa

Correct. It is visa class of it's own but.....never say never regarding what may or may not change at some stage in the future. For now though, it isn't mentioned

Edited October 14, 2019 by Lovethailandelite
Spelling

[rabas]

12 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I don't believe it is possible to go from an O-A to an extension on marriage. Only to retirement. Marriage would need to start from a simple 'O' visa. 

 

Type O-A is a newer sub-category of the type O visa, which is used for many purposes. If a person was on an O-A type visa then they were also on an O-type visa. 

 

Did you read the link I provided?

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1127739-compulsory-health-insurance-for-0-a-visa-applicants-effective-31st-october/?do=findComment&comment=14664271

Edited October 14, 2019 by rabas

[lupin]

2 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Correct. It is visa class of it's own but.....never say never regarding what may or may not change at some stage in the future. For now though, it isn't mentioned

Had this convo couple of days ago... as far as Thailand elite/TAT says, the PE falls under the tourist visa class. But there seems to be a lot of contention over whether their claim is true or not.

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, rabas said:

 

Type O-A is a newer sub-category of the type O visa, which is used for purposes. If a person was on an O-A type visa then they were also on an O-type visa. 

 

Did you read the link I provided?

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1127739-compulsory-health-insurance-for-0-a-visa-applicants-effective-31st-october/?do=findComment&comment=14664271

I read it and I believe he is mistaken on what visa he had OR the extension was issued mistakenly.

[Exploring Thailand]

7 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Absolutely 100% not. Are you a tour guide? ???? 

OK. No worries. If you're not, you're not.  I'm not trying to be confrontational, just curious.  I'm not a tour guide, btw, nor am I ever likely be one ????

Edited October 14, 2019 by Exploring Thailand
spelling

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, lupin said:

Had this convo couple of days ago... as far as Thailand elite/TAT says, the PE falls under the tourist visa class. But there seems to be a lot of contention over whether their claim is true or not.

It is treated as a kind of tourist visa. Tourist visas are not stamped in for a 12 month stay. The visa class is printed on the visa as 'PE'