Mandatory health insurance due for long stay tourists

[Max69xl]

11 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

 

The first threat to my staying in Thailand came up when it was noted that 1 out of 12 months fell below the 65K. Nevermind, "we are going to be lenient this year" or that the monthly average is above 65K. Nevermind being told I am like a paroled criminal being required to file a new TM30 if staying outside the province for 24 hours (C.Mai) and now cannot get medical insurance at a cost I can afford ... gee Thailand 400K in hospital coverage but the insurance policy will not cover my heart condition ... I sold everything in the US to be a permanent resident retiree in Thailand and you treat me like this???

What visa do you have now? The O-A? 

[wwest5829]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

What visa do you have now? The O-A? 

Non Imm O-A issued in the USA in 2011.

[Sheryl]

And I repeat my question:

What's so special about common US citizens when it comes to health insurance? I am not talking about the military. Why do you think that every european government will comment the upcoming insurance? This is not news, the police order was released in April this year,and you can only apply for the O-A Visa in your home country. So, there's no real need for embassies/consulates to comment it,but they will, of course,just for information.

Not April. September 27. You are thinking of an earlier police order which did not mention i surance.

 

The US issue is because US has a system which pays medical care costs of veterans anywhere in tbe world including Thailand. I don't know if any other countries have the same. If any do, they also should speak up.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, Almer said:

I cant praise enough the service and costs at the University hospital in KK, i have needed many visits and surgery inc 1 week inpatient, each time very reasonable and gave me the bill on the way out and trusts one to pay  on exit.

If this all ends up with any over 50 needing insurance, it will clear the country if expats, the cost will be prohibitive for any pre exsiting condition and that linked to the 800.000 baht rule will be a non starter for most.

Why does the government not take control and charge a levy at each extension, they can then direct the needy to state owned hospitals rather than insurers pushing it all to the private sector.  

Very different to Khon Kaen hospital, which is dirty and has a terrible reputation with 5 hour + waiting times.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

What visa do you have now? The O-A? 

He would be on a Non-Imm "O" visa because the "O-A" visa does not carry an income method in its financials. All the financials for an "O-A" visa are in the applicants home country. So this does not affect him. His worries have been caused by all the misinformation that has been bandied about.

 

[Max69xl]

32 minutes ago, zydeco said:

This is what happens when generals, bankers, and insurance companies control immigration policy.

Blame the Department of Health,they came up with the idea.

[Max69xl]

2 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

He would be on a Non-Imm "O" visa because the "O-A" visa does not carry an income method in its financials. All the financials for an "O-A" visa are in the applicants home country. So this does not affect him. His worries have been caused by all the misinformation that has been bandied about.

 

Yes, that's why I asked. I don't think it's so hard to understand what kind of visa all this is about. It says clearly in the article it's about the O-A.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

Blame the Department of Health,they came up with the idea.

I don't think it was them because if if was they would be saying every visa and not just the "O-A" visa. Here is something for you to think about. Financials (money) for "O-A" visa not in a Thai bank. Non-Imm "O" visa financials (money) in a Thai bank. Think about that.

[Teee]

7 hours ago, glennb6 said:

So now, a few days back I read that health insurance was to be manditory for new O-A visa applicants over 50 yrs of age. Not a very clear explanation for an official announcement, but I'm now extending my O-A visa, not applying for a new one, so I passed on the details.

 

Today I read that the plans are "updated" to include ALL over 50 O-A visas, new and extensions, and again with less than clear guidelines. I will only speak for myself because that's the only person I am an expert in knowing.

 

Seems I am considered first, a long stay TOURIST. I thought I was a long term Non-immigrant? Something about being deemed a temporary tourist bothers me both from the perspective of being considered temporary by the authorities, and from the point of security of lifestyle. The later in that I am retired here, intend to live here until I die, and if that makes me a "non-immigrant" fine, but a temporary tourist?? Maybe tourists will be limited to X number of months one of these days at the whims of, well...

 

I am very INSULTED to be called "high risk" because I am over 50 yrs old. Hey, we all die some day but some people are healthier than others regardless of age. Some people live a healthier life style than others, regardless of age. I do know age discrimination when it's typed in print in my face by the host government!

 

Me, knock on my wooden head, I am healthy, never needed a hospital or a doctor in countless years. I'm not fat/overweight. I eat healthy, I exercise regularly and am in better shape than most 30-40 yr olds. I don't smoke, I rarely drink alcohol, I am in a monogamous relationship with my GF, and my stress levels are near zero. Sound pretty good and low risk to me.

 

I rarely ride public transportation, which seem to overturn, have brake failures, and driver brain failures resulting in crashes thus ranking Thailand rather high on road fatalities and injuries. I drive an older Toyota pickup and a whimpy Honda Wave motorcycle. I have Thai driver licenses and extra insurance on the pickup truck. I drive safely, sober, and on the lookout. Anyone who has ever been here and especially who live here knows how bad the driving is.

 

Tourists who rent larger motorcycles and blast around drunk. Locals who believe Buddha will protect them and don't bother looking who they drive in front of or on which side of the road they drive. Half the population who rides motorcycles sans helmets, and frequently three plus people on two seat motorcycles...yea. Many locals don't have driver licenses, carry insufficient insurance if any, and apparently frequently run from the scene of accidents (according to the daily news reports)...yea, who is it that is 'high risk'???

 

Police? Apparently they are there at the occasional roadblock to check helmets, license, and other minor stuff. Many people remember the recent news report with pictures of three young boys stopped at a roadblock, one wearing a metal pot on his head, and the police standing around chuckling how funny that was. Too young for licenses, no helmets, insurance? Driving skills?  Say no more.

 

I stress the road safety issues because driving is high risk here, but hey, because I'm an over 50 non-Thai, I am considered high risk. Essh.

 

So, I checked the premium rates for the stated minimum required insurance of 400k in patient and 40k outpatient coverage and surprise surprise surprise... 81,746 baht per year for 61-67yr olds. Seems a bit high for very minimal coverage, especially when the government has recently and officially condoned public hospitals to charge "whatever they feel like" for foreigners.

 

My current coverage with same company is 780k inpatient, zero outpatient. If I am injured and require outpatient care I will pay out of pocket. As my visa requirement is that I must have 800k in Thai banks, I think I can cover the 40k baht minimum.

 

My current coverage including discounts for no outpatient coverage, a deductible, and not having used the insurance (now in 2.5yrs since I started) is 19,238 baht per year.

 

So for lesser coverage the government is expecting me to pay an additional 62,508 baht every year!?? Expecting me to be OK with insurance that provides me with lesser coverage but costs 425% more than what I voluntarily buy now!??!!

 

At the very best and kindest, this is full on incompetence and disregard, and at worst it smells like government corruption, collusion with the insurance business, graft, and theft from a small segment of the non-resident population that is expected to say nothing as they are not Thai and just pay, just pay.

 

I don't like (but knew and agreed to before retiring here) having to keep 800k baht in Thai banks on a permanent bases. Didn't really care for the 2 months prior and 3 months after extension requirements because it sounds like the government assumes I'm trying to cheat the system with an agent (I am not). I don't travel in country much at all so the TM30 tracking doesn't affect me, but it seems childish and ineffectual if really intended to track criminals. I grin and report myself in to immigration every 90 days even though it makes me feel like a parolee, but at least the process is quick.

 

Now, the government says I will be required to pay an additional $2050 USD for their approved insurance scheme. I am not a big spender like the 2 week millionaire tourists or rich Thais, but my spending is a 100% positive income for the country, not to mention the 800k baht stuck in the bank. It costs Thailand ZERO, NOTHING to have me here, and I expected to live this way for another 20 to 30 years.

 

This mandatory insurance scam is insulting, way over the top costly, and provides significant mistrust in what the government may come up with next for me trying to live here.  Of all the policies and rules, this is one that may well push me to look elsewhere to live in retirement.

 

This rant is mostly "preaching to the choir" but maybe it will be read by some Thais, may some Thail government officials.

Maybe you should leave Thailand and settle somewhere more suited to your lifestyle without paying extra bucks.

Still can not understand you long stay tourists who say your retired...stop moaning pay up as you all say you are rich enough to live in Thailand or ship out.

Simple really!!!

[Lacrimas]

5 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

It costs me B280 for any hospital visit as I am married to a Gov employee. My meds which cost B25,000 are covered by the same B280 fee.

Are you married to a Gov employee as well?

My wife is a government teacher, I wonder if all of this mess will apply to us as well.

[Max69xl]

26 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Non Imm O-A issued in the USA in 2011.

Really,2011? You're sure you don't have the O based on retirement? You can only extend the O-A once. 

[Max69xl]

10 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

My wife is a government teacher, I wonder if all of this mess will apply to us as well.

What type of visa are you on? If it's a marriage visa,then it doesn't concern you. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

The US issue is because US has a system which pays medical care costs of veterans anywhere in tbe world including Thailand. I don't know if any other countries have the same. If any do, they also should speak up.

 

 

However, Sheryl, there's also the parallel issue of people like you and I who already have private insurance that's valid in Thailand -- mine thru a Thai insurer on the TGIA list, and yours if I recall thru an international insurer.

 

Both are high limit policies and both insure us in Thailand. Except, neither of them are the O-A specific low-coverage policies listed on the TGIA O-A website. 

 

In my case, it's not clear that my Thai insurer policy would be accepted as valid under the new rule, since it's not one of the O-A specific policies, even though my coverage is thru one of the O-A Thai insurance providers.

 

In your case, I believe your insurer is not among the O-A insurance providers, and your insurer/policy is based outside of Thailand. And according to the O-A insurance guidelines posted on the TGIA website, foreign insurer coverage is only going to be acceptable for the first year, and not thereafter.

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[wwest5829]

2 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Really,2011? You're sure you don't have the O based on retirement? You can only extend the O-A once. 

No, Max. Non Imm O-A granted by the Royal Thai Consulate, Chicago. Granted for 1 year, but if you time a trip out of Thailand near the end of that year you can get a 2nd year out of the original visa. From then till now, I am on an Extension of Stay. Granted 1 year at a time. So, heading into my 9th year here but the medical insurance requirement will force changes. I am good until July 2020 after that???

[Max69xl]

22 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

I don't think it was them because if if was they would be saying every visa and not just the "O-A" visa. Here is something for you to think about. Financials (money) for "O-A" visa not in a Thai bank. Non-Imm "O" visa financials (money) in a Thai bank. Think about that.

I read the first article about the insurance early this year. It was the Department of Health. The reason was the unpaid bills in hospitals. So they said, anyway.

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

No, Max. Non Imm O-A granted by the Royal Thai Consulate, Chicago. Granted for 1 year, but if you time a trip out of Thailand near the end of that year you can get a 2nd year out of the original visa. From then till now, I am on an Extension of Stay. Granted 1 year at a time. So, heading into my 9th year here but the medical insurance requirement will force changes. I am good until July 2020 after that???

Check your passport. I still think you have an O based on retirement. If so, then you don't have to worry about the insurance. How do you finance your extensions? 

[Pedrogaz]

Why is it that the government in Thailand can never seem to communicate effectively. each announcement appears ro conflict with other and leaves so many questions unanswered. Will it really destroy Thainess if a suitably qualified foreigner reviews these pronouncements before they are issued. I will volunteer.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

Just sayin:

Update on Health Insurance for OA visas.
Please note this is only for Chiang Mai immigration. They have confirmed that any person who has previously held and OA visa and then extended it inside Thailand WILL NEED health insurance for the renewal. This means if you arrived 3 years a go on an OA visa and since then have been getting extensions in Chiang Mai, you will need to show health insurance at your next extension. For those that do not qualify for insurance or cant obtain it, your option is to leave and then reapply for a NON 0 visa and then get a 1 year extension based on Retirement. Please note that health insurance isnt currently required for the Non 0 Retirement extensions. For any questions contact [email protected]

 

If true, this backs up the point a lot of us have been making about the fact that Immigration included the insurance requirement language for O-A visa holders in their regulations on retirement extensions.

 

The implication of that was they intended to apply the requirement not only against current and future O-A visa holders, but also at least against people on retirement extensions who previously had O-A visas.

 

[wwest5829]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

Check your passport. I still think you have an O based on retirement. If so, then you don't have to worry about the insurance. How do you finance your extensions? 

Max, on this particular issue, I know what I am talking about and am willing to make a $1000 USD bet that my Passport shows a Non Imm O-A Visa as I have described. My choice may be to change to an O Visa if in July 2020 I am told I must have health insurance.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Why is it that the government in Thailand can never seem to communicate effectively. each announcement appears ro conflict with other and leaves so many questions unanswered. Will it really destroy Thainess if a suitably qualified foreigner reviews these pronouncements before they are issued. I will volunteer.

 

It's like a replay of the TM30 announcements all over again -- confusing, contradictory, vague, and changing depending on who's doing the telling.

 

A total and complete cluster F***!!!

 

[Max69xl]

1 minute ago, Pedrogaz said:

Why is it that the government in Thailand can never seem to communicate effectively. each announcement appears ro conflict with other and leaves so many questions unanswered. Will it really destroy Thainess if a suitably qualified foreigner reviews these pronouncements before they are issued. I will volunteer.

Every article I've read in the newspapers have been about the O-A Visa. Also the police order released in April this year. When people don't know what type of visa they're on, how can you explain it to them?

[RedPill]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If true, this backs up the point a lot of us have been making about the fact that Immigration included the insurance requirement language for O-A visa holders in their regulations on retirement extensions.

 

The implication of that was they intended to apply the requirement not only against current and future O-A visa holders, but also at least against people on retirement extensions who previously had O-A visas.

 

Exactly, if you dig a bit deeper, more and more info comes out. Will be interesting to follow, not only interesting, these things are required to know what's going on around us with Visa changes and how far it goes/will go.

 

 

 

 

[Pedrogaz]

9 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

I read the first article about the insurance early this year. It was the Department of Health. The reason was the unpaid bills in hospitals. So they said, anyway.

The first article said that unpaid bills cost the country 300 million baht ($10 million, a drop in the bucket compared to the tourist indusr=ty).

Of course the $10 million is at farang rates so you can easily halve that amount. Next of course, is that hospitals fixed costs are huge and represent the majority of any hospital bill.....the ER has to pay staff and keep the lights on even if there are no patient. Variable costs of a hospital (ie directly attributable to a given patient) account for less than 20% of hospital running costs. So of the $5 million there is perhaps a loss of $1 million that the hospitals have to bear which reduce their profits.

 

Yesterday, the amount of the loss jumped up to 500 million baht....still a drop in the tourist ocean. One wonders why they can't make the whole thing very simple and demand that stayer for more than 2 weeks pay an insurance premium to the government for care in public hospitals?

 

The answer is probably aggressive lobbying by the insurance industry who will make a killing from this new demand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Every article I've read in the newspapers have been about the O-A Visa. Also the police order released in April this year. When people don't know what type of visa they're on, how can you explain it to them?

 

I think you're the one who's not reading here....  Just one example:

 

  1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

Just sayin:

Update on Health Insurance for OA visas.
Please note this is only for Chiang Mai immigration. They have confirmed that any person who has previously held and OA visa and then extended it inside Thailand WILL NEED health insurance for the renewal. This means if you arrived 3 years a go on an OA visa and since then have been getting extensions in Chiang Mai, you will need to show health insurance at your next extension. For those that do not qualify for insurance or cant obtain it, your option is to leave and then reapply for a NON 0 visa and then get a 1 year extension based on Retirement. Please note that health insurance isnt currently required for the Non 0 Retirement extensions. For any questions contact [email protected]

 

 

 

[wwest5829]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If true, this backs up the point a lot of us have been making about the fact that Immigration included the insurance requirement language for O-A visa holders in their regulations on retirement extensions.

 

The implication of that was they intended to apply the requirement not only against current and future O-A visa holders, but also at least against people on retirement extensions who previously had O-A visas.

 

You see the source and they state this applies only to Chiang Mai. That said, I agree with you that this bears watching. First, I will look for a way around this. Only as a last resort would I be forced to leave my family and I would raise bloody hell inside and outside of Thailand. There is a reason that first they kill the educated to avoid problems ...

[Pedrogaz]

6 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Max, on this particular issue, I know what I am talking about and am willing to make a $1000 USD bet that my Passport shows a Non Imm O-A Visa as I have described. My choice may be to change to an O Visa if in July 2020 I am told I must have health insurance.

WW, my original visa is from 2006 and was a non OA. I have long since had a new passport and the only thing mentioned now is "NoN RE". If your original visa was extended recently you will still have a stamp in your passport indicating Non OA. If you have changed your passport there will be no reference to the original non OA visa.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, wwest5829 said:

You see the source and they state this applies only to Chiang Mai. That said, I agree with you that this bears watching. First, I will look for a way around this. Only as a last resort would I be forced to leave my family and I would raise bloody hell inside and outside of Thailand. There is a reason that first they kill the educated to avoid problems ...

 

There also was the separate thread and report out of Jomtien Immigration earlier today basically giving the same interpretation.

 

At this point, I personally have no idea how exactly this whole thing will be enforced. But there certainly seems to be a mounting pile of indicators suggesting it will NOT be limited only to current and future O-A visa holders.

 

[wwest5829]

1 minute ago, Pedrogaz said:

WW, my original visa is from 2006 and was a non OA. I have long since had a new passport and the only thing mentioned now is "NoN RE". If your original visa was extended recently you will still have a stamp in your passport indicating Non OA. If you have changed your passport there will be no reference to the original non OA visa.

I renewed my Passport (my 5th = good for 10 years each) in 2011 before retiring so this is the Passport with the original Thai Visa. That is why I know the fact.

[Max69xl]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If true, this backs up the point a lot of us have been making about the fact that Immigration included the insurance requirement language for O-A visa holders in their regulations on retirement extensions.

 

The implication of that was they intended to apply the requirement not only against current and future O-A visa holders, but also at least against people on retirement extensions who previously had O-A visas.

 

If you're on an O-A extension,then when your extension expires, leave the country and go to let's say Laos and apply for a 90 days Non-Immigrant O based on retirement.  After 60 days you can apply for the 1 year extension. If you're married to a thai, you can go for an extension based on marriage. That's cheaper than an extension based on retirement.

[zydeco]

10 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

WW, my original visa is from 2006 and was a non OA. I have long since had a new passport and the only thing mentioned now is "NoN RE". If your original visa was extended recently you will still have a stamp in your passport indicating Non OA. If you have changed your passport there will be no reference to the original non OA visa.

Just renewed my US passport this past April. When I went to Chaengwattana for the visa stamp transfer they filled in a square stating that my extensions were from a "non-B" originally.