What drill size is this saying?

[NanLaew]

[KMartinHandyman]

Looks like drill a hole at 1/2 meter but I don’t read Thai. Cyphering the universal cartoon instructions is sometimes harder than reading Thai though.

[bankruatsteve]

I can read Thai but I don't know what that's saying except that it appears to end in "0.5 cm".  Not the normal way to label a drill bit.  Usually given as 5 mm.

[johng]

It actually  says  to drill a hole  using the paper template with a drill bit that is "about" 0.5 cm smaller than the "raw plug" you'll be using.

 

0.5 cm = 5 mm  so I wouldn't follow that advise ( maybe they mean half a millimetre ? )

...quite often the drill size to use is marked on the plastic "raw plugs"   so for example  #7  

use a 7 mm drill bit.

 

edit :::

mis-read  it says drill the hole deeper than the raw plug by about 0.5 cm which makes more sense.

Edited October 16, 2019 by johng

[canuckamuck]

I thought it said to drill deeper than .5 cm

[johng]

Yes deeper than the length of the "raw plug"   

I found though that lots of times the walls are made of hollow "stuff"  and you drill through into "nothingness"   the raw plugs then push trough  into the cavity...in those cases having  a supply of those ( 5 or 6 inch long ) wooden BBQ screwer's comes in handy as they can be inserted in the hole until they reach something firm then snap them off to length and screw away.

[NanLaew]

23 minutes ago, johng said:

It actually  says  to drill a hole  using the paper template with a drill bit that is "about" 0.5 cm smaller than the "raw plug" you'll be using.

 

0.5 cm = 5 mm  so I wouldn't follow that advise ( maybe they mean half a millimetre ? )

...quite often the drill size to use is marked on the plastic "raw plugs"   so for example  #7  

use a 7 mm drill bit.

 

edit :::

mis-read  it says drill the hole deeper than the raw plug by about 0.5 cm which makes more sense.

Yes, I've seen the guide number on wall plugs... but naff all on these ones.

 

edit: just saw a mangled 7 on 4 of them. I had opted for a 5 but that did look a tad small.

 

edit: my selection of masonry bits only has 6 and 8... go figure!

Edited October 16, 2019 by NanLaew

[canuckamuck]

Those plugs are usually 6mm or 7mm. they usually have a 6 or a 7 as a raised number on the plug

 I get away with using a 6.5 on the 7's and I use a 6 for the 6's

Edited October 16, 2019 by canuckamuck

[mosan]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Those plugs are usually 6mm or 7mm. they usually have a 6 or a 7 as a raised number on the plug

 I get away with using a 6.5 on the 7's and I use a 6 for the 6's

The point, which was to drill the pilot hole 5mm deeper than the length of the plastic plug.  I don't think the thickness of the drill bit was in question unless I missed the point...

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, mosan said:

The point, which was to drill the pilot hole 5mm deeper than the length of the plastic plug.  I don't think the thickness of the drill bit was in question unless I missed the point...

I posted to see if the Thai instruction indicated drill bit size. I have no issues drilling half a centimeter deeper than the plug as I have the plugs (with screws) as a gauge, but I do need to know the size of drill bit for the hole for the plug to go in, depth isn't really the issue.

 

17 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I get away with using a 6.5 on the 7's and I use a 6 for the 6's

Sounds like a good fudge and I have done similar before. I just get p!ssed off when the hole is too small and needs messy redrilling. So far, I have mostly avoided the calamity of drilling a hole that's too big!

Edited October 16, 2019 by NanLaew

[lopburi3]

Have been using 6mm plugs and bits and they seem to work well for normal usage (not for safety rails or such).  Also find the round type from China easy to pound in and always seem to fit well.

[eyecatcher]

Theres an advantage to not reading Thai.

Just ignore it, like we do with English instructions and wing it with your best experience anddiy knowledge

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I posted to see if the Thai instruction indicated drill bit size. I have no issues drilling half a centimeter deeper than the plug as I have the plugs (with screws) as a gauge, but I do need to know the size of drill bit for the hole for the plug to go in, depth isn't really the issue.

I will usually drill a smaller hole, or at least start with a smaller bit, often 4mm as they don't wander then use the correct size bit for the material the plug is going into. For concrete the hole needs to be a bit bigger than for AAC blocks.

 

To check the correct size I use a small piece of AAC block which is where I keep a selection of bits

 

[wayned]

I always use a drill 0.5mm smaller than the plug - 6.5mm for a #7 plug.  It helps with hollow walls and if the plug doesn't drive in all of the way - solid walls - I cut it off flush with a chisel.  I wlays drill much deeper than the length of the plug.

[canopy]

Let's start with a full translation not pieces and parts:

 

Use an electric drill. Line up the drill with the hole in the paper. Drill approximately 0.5 centimeters deeper than the plug.

 

[canopy]

If you turn over the box it usually tells you a lot. This one says: (1) what screw size and length to use, (2) what drill bit size to use, (3) depth to drill in wall, and (4) fixture size the plug can safely support.

 

 

The book for Q-CON suggests selecting a drill bit the same size of the plug or up to 1mm smaller. Like others, I prefer undersizing the bit to make the plug extra tight. I also like drilling at a very slight down angle to resist pull out.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

36 minutes ago, canopy said:

If you turn over the box it usually tells you a lot. This one says: (1) what screw size and length to use, (2) what drill bit size to use, (3) depth to drill in wall, and (4) fixture size the plug can safely support.

 

 

The book for Q-CON suggests selecting a drill bit the same size of the plug or up to 1mm smaller. Like others, I prefer undersizing the bit to make the plug extra tight. I also like drilling at a very slight down angle to resist pull out.

 

 

For AAC (Q-CON) the best plugs I have found are indeed the ones you show, this is a better picture

 

though do not drill undersized if going into a post or column as they will deform as you try to get them in DAMHIKT. I also use a punch (steel rod slightly larger in diameter than the plug (a nail reversed will work) to sink them slightly under the wall surface this means that the item I'm fitting is flush to the wall.

Edited October 17, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[canopy]

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

though do not drill undersized if going into a post or column

Simple rule: if you are going into AAC then use metal plugs. Everything else like concrete or red bricks use plastic plugs. Never use plastic plugs on AAC and never use metal plugs on concrete.

 

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I also use a punch...to sink them slightly under the wall surface

Me too. This is especially good for assuring the hammer does not bang against/harm the finished wall.

 

[bankruatsteve]

8 minutes ago, canopy said:

Simple rule: if you are going into AAC then use metal plugs. Everything else like concrete or red bricks use plastic plugs. Never use plastic plugs on AAC and never use metal plugs on concrete.

Not saying the "rule" is right or wrong, but can you explain it?  FWIW: I have many, many plastic plugs in "Super Block" AAC and, except when the hole is too big, have never had issues.  These support everything from hooks and paintings to kitchen cabinets.

[canopy]

The short answer is whole reason they made the steel ones is the plastic ones don't work right with AAC. The plastic ones can more easily pull out, spin in place, and loosen over time. Wrong fastener for the job. The steel ones have fins that are designed to drive into AAC block and then bite in real good with the screw winching the tapered and ribbed sides into place. You don't get any of that with the plastic ones that are a simple friction joint and that friction can lead to crushing AAC grits or be very weak rather than actual tightening unlike when used with stronger materials like concrete and red bricks. I don't like the "it's worked so far" approach to validating a building choice and instead want to understand what has been engineer approved and up to date. The steel ones aren't expensive so I just don't know why a knowledgeable person would deliberately chance opening a can of worms. Better to have peace of mind, no worries sleeping at night, and not chancing needing to go back and fix things you just got done doing I think.

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by canopy

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Not saying the "rule" is right or wrong, but can you explain it?  FWIW: I have many, many plastic plugs in "Super Block" AAC and, except when the hole is too big, have never had issues.  These support everything from hooks and paintings to kitchen cabinets.

The saw steel plugs in AAC blocks have a phenomenal holding power due to the way the legs expand and bite into the blocks whereas plastic plugs just expand uniformly, as the AAC blocks are relatively soft a plastic plug will have very much less resistance to a direct pull than the ones illustrated. For holding things in shear the length and strength of the screw is the important factor not the holding power of the plugs.

 

So for hooks and paintings any reasonable plugs will do, though if you are putting up kitchen cabinets that will be loaded with china, so very heavy, I personally will use metal plugs, maybe overkill but I will have peace of mind.

 

For my French cleat system in my workshop I can't guarantee that there will be little pulling force, so rather than taking any risks I have standardised on those metal plugs in various sizes.

[lopburi3]

Not aware steel plugs were invented due AAC - seem to recall them being in use 50 years ago.  And would and do use for any heavy duty use regardless of cement type.  Agree in AAC they would be a much better option as that stuff crumbles easily (like drilling through butter).

[sometimewoodworker]

46 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Not aware steel plugs were invented due AAC - seem to recall them being in use 50 years ago.  And would and do use for any heavy duty use regardless of cement type.  Agree in AAC they would be a much better option as that stuff crumbles easily (like drilling through butter).

AFIK all the older style metal plugs worked on just expanding a relatively smooth body to grip and I was using them 50 years ago myself. I think the saw edged version may be designed for AAC and relatively new. Although AAC have been around for quite a few decades so maybe the saw edge plugs are not so new either.

[bankruatsteve]

Well, I did ask so thanks for the info. I didn't know about the steel plugs so will probably get some. As far as "it's worked so far", I'm OK with that. The cabinets, for example, have been holding fine for 10 years. 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

Well, I did ask so thanks for the info. I didn't know about the steel plugs so will probably get some. As far as "it's worked so far", I'm OK with that. The cabinets, for example, have been holding fine for 10 years. 

Good to know that, the best place if you want a supply of just the plugs, at least round here, is Thai Watsadu, you can easily find smaller quantities on Lazada though I think the price might be a little high. AFIK these are the available sizes.

the smallest screw I use is a No 7 the biggest a No 12

 

 

[canopy]

13 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

As far as "it's worked so far", I'm OK with that. The cabinets, for example, have been holding fine for 10 years. 

It's like saying "i put a wheel on my car omitting one of the lug nuts and so far it hasn't fallen off so I am thinking it's safe". That doesn't sound terribly reassuring. The cabinets could already be in a state of failure or they could last forever; we just don't know. If at anytime a kid were to pull themselves up using a cabinet door or something else unusual happens the results might not be so good. It's the really rare but inevitable abnormal usage, not the normal everyday usage of a product that tells you about the quality of what you have. A lot of things in Thailand work fine until that big storm hits, then they just blame the storm.

 

[wayned]

14 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Well, I did ask so thanks for the info. I didn't know about the steel plugs so will probably get some. As far as "it's worked so far", I'm OK with that. The cabinets, for example, have been holding fine for 10 years. 

My cabinets don't rely on any wall plugs, they are all tied into the steel joists above the drop ceiling.  They are really heavy, I know because I built them reworking under counter cabinet doors that I bought from Home Pro.