The Thailand of today.

[swissie]

40 years ago, Thailand was a truly 3rd world country. Everbody welcome with "hard-currency" in their pocket. (Non)-Existing Immigration Legislation was hardly enforced.
Now, Thailand is no more a 3rd world country, with a solid industrial base in place. Them having discovered that it's the millions of Tourists that bring in the money, not a few 100 thousand permanent Farang residents.
As the "Patriotic-Element" in Western-Societies" is waning, an extreme "Patriotic-Element" is alive and well in Thailand. As every Farang having lived in Thailand for any lenght of time will freely confirm.
Unless working in a high-tech enterprise and contributing to the technological advancement of Thailand, "long-term Farangs" have become "unnecessary" (financially and otherwise).
A farang, having to leave behind 50% of his immovable assets may cause a major headache for the Farang, but certainly not to any potential Thai-beneficiaries.

THAI RAK THAI, and nobody else. Bottom line.

Plan B: Re-Locating to other SE/Asian countries? Possible. But as soon those countries leave their 3rd-word status behind, one may face a "rinse and repeat" situation.

I myself have activated my "Plan C" in 2016. A time when I started to realise that some fundamental changes concerning "Long-Term-Farangs" are slowly in the making.
I can highly recommend Plan ???? Nothing wrong with Europe during spring/summer/autumn. Winter months in Thailand. As long as they let me in, that is.

[Isaanbiker]

You don't have to go back 40 years.

 

Thailand was different 20 years ago, and foreigners were usually welcome, teaching positions were readily available all over the country.

 

Everything was cheap, and people were much friendlier than they are now.

 

    Seventeen years ago, my ex-neighbor, a now-retired female teacher who calls me her younger brother, was glad to see foreigners and have a chat with them. 

 

 But that's over now for various reasons. Foreigners have done too many criminal activities and did a huge damage to the picture Thais have of us. 

 

Some foreigners bet the shi_e out of their wives, more and more foreigners got arrested with drugs, some of them were even dealing bigger amounts of drugs, or got caught smuggling them.  

 

But that has changed. She doesn't want to make new foreign friends these days.

 

Too many things have happened where foreigners were involved in all sorts of suspicious activities, and that changed her mind.

 

Foreign pedophiles were too often topic in Thai news, thieves and killers, pretty much all crimes you can think of where foreigners were involved. 

 

 Working at a school was pure fun. Thai colleagues were way more open-minded and happy to work with somebody so different.

 

Before Thaksin's war on drugs, you could buy 24/7 companionship for 500 baht, plus a little bar fine. 

 

 But then more and more, unfortunately, many criminals came to Thailand in all shapes and sizes and committing so many crimes that the word Farang rapidly changed into something very negative. 

 

From pedophiles to bank robbers, bag snatchers, more and more beggars received enough cash to continue their holiday in SEA, but then there were guys like the big legged German who later made fun of the "stupid Thais" who's spending the cash on girls and booze and posted photos of it on Facebook. 

 

 There's the one-legged guy who had Aids and slept with countless women without telling them what he had. I don't know if it's true, he denied a test, but that's what all the locals believed. 

 

After a short period, he got deported, just to be back after only two weeks.

 

 It's true that a lot of foreigners had (have) motorbike accidents and couldn't (can't) pay for their hospital bills.

 

You can hardly blame the rental shops for it if they don't check if the foreigners have a license. It's their income to rent out bikes, you can hardly blame them when a drunk foreigner's crashing. 

 

Thais are used to drive without one.

 

 Then there were countless drug-related stories about drug dealing foreigners, even some of them in Isaan. Foreigners who killed their wives, burnt down houses, and other weird things.

 

  Too many foreigners called the police and committed insurance fraud, but the cops mostly found the "stolen items" in their hotel rooms or homes. 

 

Way too many foreigners who worked on fake degrees, lies after lies. 

 

 We are a minority in Thailand and would Thais behave like that in any European country we'd also have our opinion about Thais in general. 

 

 Sadly, many of us were planning to live here until we die, but that has obviously changed.

 

Many of us can't afford it to have some good money just sitting on a bank account, and the new insurance policy seems to do the rest.

 

I've never done anything against the law, I pay my annual taxes, raise my family, try to help the extended family and I know some foreigners who are honest guys, living their lives in the same situation. 

 

I've learned the language well enough to have a conversation, but I've also realized that fewer Thais like foreigners.

 

That was different when I settled down here.

 

 And I think I know why immigration regularly changed laws.

 

There's always a reason for it, and in my humble opinion, we can thank these people who messed it up for the rest of us.

 

 

  

 

 

 

  

 

    

 

  

[SEAsia Traveler]

RENT

[473geo]

As usual over emphasis on foreigners, well I suppose that is core reason this forum exists

 

Used to be the Thai way was laid back, no clock watching, cash only for Thai, credit was few baht at the local shop, borrowing from the village fund, or the city dwellers monthly salary

 

Thai people have moved into the work, borrow, repay, financial slavery the western working culture brings with it, only longer hours!!! Levels of expectation have risen, as in the western world a motorsi is no longer seen as the correct status vehicle, first a family ute now teenagers moving upward to the small car. young families taking on a mortgage.

 

This steady progression from the family farm subsistence system means the majority of employment age Thai people require stable income supplied by regular employment, leaving a much reduced availability and time frame to 'entertain' foreigners other than those actively working in the tourist zones.

 

I fully intend to shortly retire to be with my family in Thailand full time, you see the thing is I don't really have the time or inclination to bother about how Thai strangers view me, only my Thai family and friends I interact with on a daily basis.

I am therefore not surprised when the Thai people who do not know, or know of me, react indifferently, it is to be expected.

 

Perhaps better to lower our level of expectation, move with the times, or get left behind........or of course as you have done swissie, just move and become a welcomed tourist ????

Edited October 19, 2019 by 473geo
spelling

[yogi100]

I'm not an ex pat but I'm a regular visitor and have been since 1999 and since I retired about 15 years ago spend about half my life in Pattaya.

 

I get a special rate for my hotel room so have kept it on permanently since then. It also saves me lugging luggage backwards and forwards to England.

 

But things have changed especially financially and to a less noticeable degree the attitude of some Thais towards us falangs. We sometimes forget we're paying guests in their country.

 

The visa problems have only compounded these issues.

 

I have a lot of stuff in my room and on my next visit I will have a half empty suitcase so that I can start taking some of my belongings back home with me because I can see the writing on the wall. They no longer want us staying in the LOS for longer than a few weeks holiday.

 

I know they don't want us to spend a lot of time in their country. They are nationalists and in their eyes we do not belong here, are not wanted and are not needed. The people have no understanding of political correctness, no appreciation of diversity and neither have their rulers.

 

It's mainly the bar girls who welcome us as do their families because we are simply milk cows and a doorway to a life on Easy Street for them. That also goes for falangs who have married local women.

 

I've heard bar girls cursing Prayut and the Thai govt but no one cares about what they want. They'll be told to get off their ar**s and get a real job.

 

I don't think the future looks too good in the long term for any Westerners settled or hoping to settle in the LOS any more unless they've got serious money.

[KMartinHandyman]

Gas was $0.24 a gallon and people left their doors unlocked when I was a kid. Things change.

[473geo]

I don't really care if everybody around me is on 'easy street', as I will be there too, unfortunately we will still have the inconvenience of harvesting the rice crop, and other menial tasks, to help us along, but it will be fun ????

 

I know people who have worked at companies for 30 or 40 years, feel they have made friends and been useful. Once they step out of the door nobody is interested or contacts them. 30 or 40 years of pure illusion - then what? a burst of reality in Thailand because everybody does not need to be over polite or be their 'friend'

[473geo]

I am staggered by how many of the guys on Tvisa feel unwanted!! By whom, a government that requires and applies some regulatory control on immigration? The Thai finance system that is running a high baht thus making things more expensive for all tourists? Not really eh?

 

My wife is constantly asked by family and friends when I will join my family to live in Thailand - I am disappointed that I must stick to my plan but I need to make it work, which means work a little longer ????

[Samui Bodoh]

Respectfully, I think that while you guys are telling a fairly accurate story, you are also omitting some key info.

 

Yes, there have been and always will be some bad foreigners.

Yes, there have been some horror show incidents of kiddy-fiddling and other heinous crimes.

Yes, there have been some foreigners who have skipped out on their hospital/hotel/restaurant/etc bill.

Yes, some bad visitors.

 

You know what else has changed? The ideological, economic and cultural outlook of the Thai leadership class/caste, and they have opted for a policy of blaming foreigners; it is the same ugly <deleted> that Trump and the like use. Life for the average Thai person hasn't improved much, despite the tall buildings in Bangkok, despite the infrastructure in Bangkok, despite the newly paved roads in Bangkok, despite the office jobs in Bangkok, despite the availability of special foods in Bangkok, despite the shopping malls in Bangkok, Etc. Anyone notice a pattern?

 

Thailand's economic development has been limited to very small groups and locations, and that doesn't sell well to the wider population.

 

So, blame the foreigner.

 

I also started visiting in the 90's, and I find my life, at a micro-level, still as wonderful as always and the Thais as nice as can be. It is only when the macro-level blame game starts that people react negatively. It is very simple; Thailand is developing with massive, massive inequality, and someone needs to be blamed for that. And, as seen in time immemorial, it is always the "Other".

 

It is sad to watch. Everyday you see newspaper stories of 'evil' foreigners. Everyday you see newspaper stories of 'international criminals'. Everyday you see newspaper stories of foreigners 'taking Thai jobs'. It goes on and on, everyday. Again and again.

 

But, day to day it is the most wonderful place to live, I adore the Thai people, have many friends, and will be here for a long time. Period.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Samui Bodoh
Lack of coffee

[brokenbone]

its going to take an awful lot of time for surrounding

nations to semi catch up, and for sure im going to be dead

if and when cambodia ever catches up somewhat.

agree thai economy is doing exceptionally well,

its overall not cheaper here then home now.

still warm here tho, and i find thais as social and easy going as ever, but have to note with displeasure

that the young A rated lasses doesnt even register me

on their radar

[Matzzon]

This is very easy explained.

 

40 years ago: No Internet, No social media. Not many people reading newspaper, if existing, and if they exist they were only available in Bangkok and some other big cities. That means your neighbour did not know much more than the way to his rice field and the closest shop as well as a local market.

 

20 years ago: Have Internet but not many people connected at home, and almost invisible in mobile phones. Social media have not entered every single persons life, and brought them news about all that happened in Thailand just by clicking a link and after beeing able to share and read what other think and believe. Newspaper are starting to get more widely seen.

Today: All Thais almost everywhere have acces to the whole country and all that happens. Mean that they see the things the still small percent of bad foreigners is doing. That is changing their mind about us. It´s also natural that happens, and we are also affected by everything we read and somethimes change opinions about things.

I believe that is fair, and that they see a few bad apples doesn´t bother me. Lived here long enough to talk and explain to them and share my point of view with them. The big misstake many expats that feel unwanted here have been doing, is refusing to learn the language in the country they choose to reside in. Probably that is the biggest part of the ones feeling unsecure and not wanted today.

[Skallywag]

5 hours ago, swissie said:

"long-term Farangs" have become "unnecessary" (financially and otherwise).

And why were we "necessary" 20 - 40 years ago?  As teachers? Bar owners? 

I believe tourism has always been more "necessary" to Thailand as it is in most countries.

Again, tourism accounts for around 12% of GDP, expats around 0.02% GDP  

4 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

Seventeen years ago, my ex-neighbor, a now-retired female teacher who calls me her younger brother, was glad to see foreigners and have a chat with them. 

Have become acquainted with many interesting foreigners living at our condo complex during the last year. (Newbie, I know)  They all seem positive, friendly, and well adjusted. 

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Thailand is developing with massive, massive inequality, and someone needs to be blamed for that. And, as seen in time immemorial, it is always the "Other".

According to an online search, Thailand is not among the top 15 countries with the greatest gaps between rich and poor.  But i agree the number of poor are likely growing in LOS, but is also occurring globally.

[Samui Bodoh]

Just now, Skallywag said:

And why were we "necessary" 20 - 40 years ago?  As teachers? Bar owners? 

I believe tourism has always been more "necessary" to Thailand as it is in most countries.

Again, tourism accounts for around 12% of GDP, expats around 0.02% GDP  

Have become acquainted with many interesting foreigners living at our condo complex during the last year. (Newbie, I know)  They all seem positive, friendly, and well adjusted. 

According to an online search, Thailand is not among the top 15 countries with the greatest gaps between rich and poor.  But i agree the number of poor are likely growing in LOS, but is also occurring globally.

"...According to an online search, Thailand is not among the top 15 countries with the greatest gaps between rich and poor.  But i agree the number of poor are likely growing in LOS, but is also occurring globally...."

 

Respectfully, this is flat out, completely, utterly, 100% incorrect.

 

https://livingasean.com/explore/thailand-income-equality-wealth-report-2018-indonesia-economy/

 

Or you can simply google the Bangkok Post for the same numbers (Mods frown on BP links).

 

Thailand has the highest income inequality in ASEAN and is number 4 in the world (2018 figures).

 

As I noted in my post above, that isn't a selling point to the Thai masses, so someone else besides the Thai Hi-So's need to be blamed. And, foreigners are blamed because blaming people who don't look like you is easy; see Donald Trump.

 

It is neither a new practice, a practice with a sense of decency, nor ethically defensible.

 

However, it often works.

 

Sadly

[villagefarang]

My wife and I are treated pretty much the same by our Thai friends, except that she is prettier and younger than I am.  I am welcome and encouraged to join in conversations or activities.  I speak polite Thai and I don’t encounter any animosity from the people in my life.  The only thing which seems to fluster them is finding out I am much older than they think I am at first.

 

Sure things have changed since the mid-70s but even back then the purveyors of doom were hard at work predicting the demise of Thailand and lamenting the loss of the good old days.  I have watched as people have come and gone over the years, and yes some are magnets for misfortune but I somehow doubt they could be protected from themselves.

 

We age, circumstances change, and we adapt, at least that is the way I look at it.  I prefer to focus on my own ability to adapt than some fantasy that the world is going to change just to make me happier.  I have always found it pretty easy to navigate the ins and outs of life in Thailand but I get that not everyone finds life here as easy as I do.  The choice seems pretty simple to me...you either adapt or move.

[Orton Rd]

' Now, Thailand is no more a 3rd world country '

 

Any country that lets millions of stray dogs roam about, that has heaps of rubbish dumped along smaller roadways and where hundreds are slaughtered on the roads every month is still 3rd world.

[RichardColeman]

7 hours ago, swissie said:

Now, Thailand is no more a 3rd world country, with a solid industrial base in place. Them having discovered that it's the millions of Tourists that bring in the money

........................but still filled with 3rd world mumbo jumbo

[meechai]

We also now do the snowbird routine having moved away from Thailand.

A simple Type O 90 day visa is easily obtained once a year by mail in our home country

 

To be honest we now much prefer it.

We have a home in a much nicer climate & return to our Thai home for

2-3 months a year only during the more tolerable climate months.

 

Overall with the lack of Immigration hassles & lack of hot weather or burn season it is so much nicer for us.

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by meechai

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/20/2019 at 8:48 AM, Isaanbiker said:

Before Thaksin's war on drugs, you could

buy 24/7 companionship for …………. plus a little bar fine. 

 

Specifics can't be posted on TVF so I deleted the amount, though I think you remember wrong decade. Perhaps in Nakhon Nowhere, but even in Pattaya it was more than that, and in Bkk way more before Thaksin appeared on scene.

 

 

[geronimo]

Good post. I agree that Thailand is not the same as it was a few decades ago, but that would apply to any country. I'm not so sure there is a general consensus of opinion that long-term expats are not wanted, all these hoops we have to jump through could just be the result of ambitious high ranking officials who want to be remembered.

 

I fell in love with Thailand 35 years ago, and despite all the changes, I am still besotted with this unique nation. I have always had positive experiences with the locals, mind you, I couldn't imagine life without the ability to speak Thai.

 

I'm here for the duration and will negotiate all obstacles they put in front of me, whatever it takes.

 

When I arrived here in 1985, something clicked, it wasn't infatuation, as I had already been to more than 50 countries prior to Thailand, and whatever happens, I'll spend the rest of my days here.

 

A point worth noting, I have yet to meet a farang who speaks Thai that is unhappy living here. Could it be that without the language, foreigners will always be outsiders?

[OneMoreFarang]

On 10/20/2019 at 1:49 AM, swissie said:

As the "Patriotic-Element" in Western-Societies" is waning, an extreme "Patriotic-Element" is alive and well in Thailand. As every Farang having lived in Thailand for any lenght of time will freely confirm.

I live and work here since 20 years and I can't confirm such element.

[OneMoreFarang]

I wonder where TV members experience all the problems in Thailand. Is this something you read in the news or on fb or something you actually experience yourself?

I am in the middle of Bangkok. Sometimes in typical farang areas and sometimes in almost Thai only areas (like the fresh market, etc.). Yesterday I also paid a traffic ticket at the police. My experience is friendly people, friendly people and friendly people. And once a year when I have to go to immigration I also see friendly people.

Where do you see all those problems?

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, geronimo said:

A point worth noting, I have yet to meet a farang who speaks Thai that is unhappy living here. Could it be that without the language, foreigners will always be outsiders?

I couldn't speak conversational Thai, and I loved the place. Mind you I did know enough to get by.

Speak Thai or not, no farang will ever be an insider. Always an outsider for ever and ever and ever.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I wonder where TV members experience all the problems in Thailand. Is this something you read in the news or on fb or something you actually experience yourself?

I am in the middle of Bangkok. Sometimes in typical farang areas and sometimes in almost Thai only areas (like the fresh market, etc.). Yesterday I also paid a traffic ticket at the police. My experience is friendly people, friendly people and friendly people. And once a year when I have to go to immigration I also see friendly people.

Where do you see all those problems?

You must be born lucky. I've had multitudes of problems in LOS with Thai people from con men to the travel agent wouldn't let my THAI GF on a bus.

I've been insulted, ignored, gossiped about, exploited, treated like dirt, ripped off, had rockets fired at me, been abandoned at railway stations, lied to, had food poisoning from an expensive restaurant, severely injured by an idiot m'bike rider, nearly killed more times that I can remember while driving, property stolen by relatives, not had loans repaid, never thanked for anything I did to help relatives. I'm sure there are more but that's enough to be going on.

Sadly, that's pretty normal in my life, wherever I am. 

[OneMoreFarang]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You must be born lucky. I've had multitudes of problems in LOS with Thai people from con men to the travel agent wouldn't let my THAI GF on a bus.

I've been insulted, ignored, gossiped about, exploited, treated like dirt, ripped off, had rockets fired at me, been abandoned at railway stations, lied to, had food poisoning from an expensive restaurant, severely injured by an idiot m'bike rider, nearly killed more times that I can remember while driving, property stolen by relatives, not had loans repaid, never thanked for anything I did to help relatives. I'm sure there are more but that's enough to be going on.

Sadly, that's pretty normal in my life, wherever I am. 

Looking at your last sentence: Did you every think about what YOU do wrong in your life?

 

I am sure at some stage in my life someone insulted me, someone ignored me and probably some people gossiped about me. I guess it's impossible to go through life without any of this happening from time to time. But do I care? No! It's like a dog barking at me. Who cares?

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Looking at your last sentence: Did you every think about what YOU do wrong in your life?

 

I am sure at some stage in my life someone insulted me, someone ignored me and probably some people gossiped about me. I guess it's impossible to go through life without any of this happening from time to time. But do I care? No! It's like a dog barking at me. Who cares?

Of course, but in the end, I reckon I was born unlucky. The bad luck started when I was 4, so hardly old enough to be a bad person by then.

You may disagree, but some are born lucky or unlucky.

My biggest flaw was that I trusted the wrong people too much, and didn't work that out till way too late.

 

From the problems you detail you haven't had anything really bad happen to you. I have, from sibling death too young, to losing everything at 35 and having to start from scratch, to cancer.

Edited October 21, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[HLover]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I reckon I was born unlucky. The bad luck started when I was 4

Do you spout this in public places?  I recall hearing similar tales of self woe last weekend at the pub.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, HLover said:

Do you spout this in public places?  I recall hearing similar tales of self woe last weekend at the pub.

I was responding to One More Farang. What's your point, or do you enjoy just coming on to say pointless things.

[HLover]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was responding to One More Farang. What's your point, or do you enjoy just coming on to say pointless things.

Just asking if it may have been you. There is your valid point.

Welcome.

[emptypockets]

19 minutes ago, HLover said:

Just asking if it may have been you. There is your valid point.

Welcome.

Unless you were in an Ozzie pub, it wasn't him.

[marko kok prong]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You must be born lucky. I've had multitudes of problems in LOS with Thai people from con men to the travel agent wouldn't let my THAI GF on a bus.

I've been insulted, ignored, gossiped about, exploited, treated like dirt, ripped off, had rockets fired at me, been abandoned at railway stations, lied to, had food poisoning from an expensive restaurant, severely injured by an idiot m'bike rider, nearly killed more times that I can remember while driving, property stolen by relatives, not had loans repaid, never thanked for anything I did to help relatives. I'm sure there are more but that's enough to be going on.

Sadly, that's pretty normal in my life, wherever I am. 

I have some advice,one from the great band Crowded House 'everywhere you go,you alway's take the weather with you" the second part is "Better call Saul"