Rees-Mogg says 'common sense' could have saved Grenfell victims

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The stairwells were chocked with smoke, you would not have been able to leave. 

at what point were they "chocked with smoke"? perhaps they could have been evacuated early. The report concludes the staying put in their flats was a mistake

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

He seems quite good at it to me:

 

 

So you agree with his comments on this tragedy?

 

That in the face of dying, you should have the calm "common sense" to know the advice being instructed by the trained professionals coming to rescue you, is wrong and ignore it!

 

Hindsight - such a useful thing for politicians!

[DannyCarlton]

Tory campaign going off the rails.

 

It was announced a couple of days ago that Dominic Cummings won't be running the Tory election campaign. I didn't believe it for one minute. Now I'm not so sure. They claim that they are targetting "Workington Man". Yesterday's half page header, in the Telegraph, exhalting Britain's need to maintain a super rich elite and depricating Corbyn for claiming that they need reigning in, added to Mogg's gaffe, will not impress Workington Man on iota, so it is indeed possible that Cummings has been sidelined.

[DannyCarlton]

10 minutes ago, evadgib said:

He seems quite good at it to me:

 

21 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I don't think it is envy that makes people criticise Mogg, but, rather, frustration that we live in a society where many people automatically defer to those who were born into privilege. Mogg was brought up to believe that he was a leader of men and the rest of us have been conditioned to accept that. 

 

If we continue to accept it, we will continue to have people like Mogg, Johnson, Cameron etc make the major decisions in our lives, rather than actually being governed by competent, intelligent and capable people who have experienced life beyond their class bubble. 

Evadgib, you've clearly been well conditioned. 555

[transam]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

 

Evadgib, you've clearly been well conditioned. 555

Pot/kettle...????

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Pot/kettle...????

Sorry, I don't feed trolls. (particularly those with little or no imagination).

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

at what point were they "chocked with smoke"? perhaps they could have been evacuated early. The report concludes the staying put in their flats was a mistake

I think one of the challenges for those who are required to draft emergency response procedures for the general public to follow is that there are so many various potential incidents to consider, and there may not be a 'one size fits all' approach.

 

In all my many years of working on oil platforms, one of the consistent mantras drilled into you is that in the event of an emergency, you must follow instructions and head to your designated muster point. One of the many sad facts about the Piper Alpha tragedy was was a significant number of the dead were found in their designated muster point inside the accommodation module; those who survived were the ones who ignored their training and fled. 

[Jane Dough]

12 hours ago, evadgib said:

The 'stick to beat him with' brigade will milk this simply because he's a brexiter. His comments were perhaps ill advised but he has subsequently apologized.

I wonder when he will apologize for misleading people over Brexit. 

 

We're waiting.

 

Rooster

[scubascuba3]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I think one of the challenges for those who are required to draft emergency response procedures for the general public to follow is that there are so many various potential incidents to consider, and there may not be a 'one size fits all' approach.

 

In all my many years of working on oil platforms, one of the consistent mantras drilled into you is that in the event of an emergency, you must follow instructions and head to your designated muster point. One of the many sad facts about the Piper Alpha tragedy was was a significant number of the dead were found in their designated muster point inside the accommodation module; those who survived were the ones who ignored their training and fled. 

People are told they MUST follow procedures in many\all industries, not much scope for thinking outside the box. Fireman didn't adapt their thinking in this case. Many other people to blame though, who signed off the cladding, etc etc.

 

Having a go at Jacob is just political. Election coming up and remainers take every opportunity to stick a knife in

Edited November 6, 2019 by scubascuba3

[evadgib]

25 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

So you agree with his comments on this tragedy?

??

Tom Newton-Dunne summed it up perfectly on today's press preview on Sky.

[scubascuba3]

7 minutes ago, Jane Dough said:

I wonder when he will apologize for misleading people over Brexit. 

 

We're waiting.

 

Rooster

How about going into the EU in the first place? people were badly misled then

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

People are told they MUST follow procedures in many\all industries, not much scope for thinking outside the box. Fireman didn't adapt their thinking in this case. Many other people to blame though, who signed off the cladding, etc etc.

 

Having a go at Jacob is just political. Election coming up and remainers take every opportunity to stick a knife in

That is what I am saying - there are multiple ways a situation might arise and develop; procedures cannot possibly account for every possible eventuality. To blame the FB for not fully understanding the fast moving and complex situation is grossly unfair in my opinion. Mogg's almost 'natural selection' response was utterly crass and totally inept, and shows a lack of both empathy and understanding. 

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

??

Tom Newton-Dunne summed it up perfectly on today's press preview on Sky.

Ayesha Hazarika summed it up much better. I'd rather take note of a columnist from the Evening Standard, than one from the Sun.

[scubascuba3]

14 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

That is what I am saying - there are multiple ways a situation might arise and develop; procedures cannot possibly account for every possible eventuality. To blame the FB for not fully understanding the fast moving and complex situation is grossly unfair in my opinion. Mogg's almost 'natural selection' response was utterly crass and totally inept, and shows a lack of both empathy and understanding. 

He was basically saying that "stay put" order by the fire service was a mistake, which is what the report says

[Jane Dough]

21 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

How about going into the EU in the first place? people were badly misled then

Please explain how they were misled on that occasion. I would like to hear your reasons.

 

Rooster

[transam]

46 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Sorry, I don't feed trolls. (particularly those with little or no imagination).

Well, I suppose that is one way out of not liking another's comment........????

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

He was basically saying that "stay put" order by the fire service was a mistake, which is what the report says

You can try to spin it any way you choose, but that is not what he said. 

 

16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

“And I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do.”

That is not only an implied criticism of the FB but a clear statement of his belief that those who followed instructions were, somehow, lacking in common sense. Hopefully neither you nor I will find ourselves in a situation where we need to make such a dramatic life or death decision, but to suggest that whichever decision you might take is an indication of common sense is appallingly insensitive and shows an utter lack of understanding. 

 

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Well, I suppose that is one way out of not liking another's comment........????

QED

[Chomper Higgot]

49 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

He was basically saying that "stay put" order by the fire service was a mistake, which is what the report says

What is reported is a product of and limited by the scope of the inquiry.

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/2019/10/blame-fire-service-grenfell-let-government-hook

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

??

Tom Newton-Dunne summed it up perfectly on today's press preview on Sky.

Right winger defends fellow right winger scoop.

 

An interview with a few survivors of this tragedy might be more instructive.

[Jonnapat]

Yet another crass comment from one of the Tories' many turds.

This is the priveleged Commons Leader who hides his fortune abroad to avoid his fair share of taxation. 

I should add far from being the only one.

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Right winger defends fellow right winger scoop.

 

An interview with a few survivors of this tragedy might be more instructive.

T N-D didn't defend any more than I did but as usual you've opted for poster rather than content.

Edited November 6, 2019 by evadgib

[jayboy]

19 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Over entitled evil piece of excrement.

 

Have you actually listened to the interview? I have.Rees Mogg showed poor judgement in one particular comment (for which he has apologised) but overall he was sympathetic and understanding about the Grenfell victims..

 

Yet your language indicates a view he is evil personified. It's not a view I share.

Edited November 6, 2019 by jayboy

[Darkside Gray]

He probably said what a lot of other people where thinking!

[dunroaming]

16 hours ago, evadgib said:

The 'stick to beat him with' brigade will milk this simply because he's a brexiter. His comments were perhaps ill advised but he has subsequently apologized.

What nonsense.  Sorry but to try to suggest that this has anything to do with him being a Brexiteer is ludicrous.  He is, and always has been an arrogant dick head and his comments are just typical of him.  If you think his "apology" was in any way sincere then you are in the minority.  His initial apology was that he was sorry if people had misunderstood what he was saying.  Must be too thick to get it eh Jacob!

 

Then you get his friend Andrew Bridgen trying to defend him.  I suggest you listen to that farce.  He has subsequently apologised.  JRM won't resign and Johnson certainly won't get rid of him. Cleverley was on the TV this morning squirming and trying again to excuse Mogg's crass comments before moving on to try to excuse the fake news story about Keir Starmer. 

 

This Election is certainly proving to be what we all thought it would be.  Despicable people dragging despicable people through the mire, bottom feeders all of them.

[Thingamabob]

When I heard the full recording of what JR-M said it sounded much less offensive than is being portrayed here. I suggest you guys acquaint yourselves with with the facts before commenting, and watch your language. 

[vogie]

Jacob Rees Mogg does not have to do anything to get castigated by the lefties on here, a couple of years ago they were having a go at him for 'talking posh', the mind boggles.

It's like Jeremy Corbyn having a go at the elitists, when privately schooled millionaire Corbyn himself is part of the crowd that are elite.

[dunroaming]

14 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

When I heard the full recording of what JR-M said it sounded much less offensive than is being portrayed here. I suggest you guys acquaint yourselves with with the facts before commenting, and watch your language. 

I listened to the full interview which was played pretty much on the hour every hour yesterday on several media outlets.  The condemnation of his comments was widespread with even his own party members saying what he said was a serious mistake.  Mogg was then quick to make a cack handed attempt at an apology suggesting people didn't understand what he had said.  The arrogance was still clearly there.  Then after (I imagine) talks with "his people" he came out and made a full unconditional apology.  Even Cleverley conceded that this was a serious error of judgement.

 

If this was such a minor thing why would JRM be squirming like he is? 

[natway09]

And who signed off on the very doubtful insulation cladding in the first place which has been banned from use for 20 years without full encapsulation & not allowed in a place which is used for sleeping anyway. Money talks ????? 

[tebee]

4 hours ago, jayboy said:

Have you actually listened to the interview? I have.Rees Mogg showed poor judgement in one particular comment (for which he has apologised) but overall he was sympathetic and understanding about the Grenfell victims..

 

Yet your language indicates a view he is evil personified. It's not a view I share.

If he had any common sense himself he wouldn't have made the comment though !