Rees-Mogg says 'common sense' could have saved Grenfell victims

[JamJar]

35 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Jacob was probably right, talking about the fire service. Problem is people stick to procedures even if common sense indicates people should be evacuated.

 

Even fire service have said in hindsight they should have been evacuated

 

 

Probably right about what?

 

Quote

Ahmed Chellat, 62, who lost five family members in the Grenfell fire, told the Daily Mirror: "What common sense is [Rees-Mogg] talking about? People died on the stairs trying to leave, they couldn't breathe.

"People needed help and directions, they tried to open doors and there was smoke everywhere. What is he talking about?

 

 

Probably best to make no comment at all, if you don't know anything of what you are speaking. That should have gone for Jacob too.

 

He would have done better to have just kept his mouth shut.

 

Quote

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt

 

has rarely been so apt. What a dolt!

 

[JamJar]

35 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Difficult call .

You would expect that the fire brigade knew what they were talking about and you would do as they say  

 

 

Not difficult at all. 

He was completely wrong. It's not the same as living in a house wherein you can just jump out of a window.

You are in a block of flats, with no easy way out. Where it would be expected that a fire would contain itself to the apartment.

If it were not for the cladding, about which the council were warned, that is exactly what would have occurred.

 

The issue was never about common sense. Many people had no choice but to stay put and hope to be evacuated, because many of the systems to contain the fire and smoke were simply inadequate.

Do you have any idea how quickly the fire spread?

 

The fact is that the council and the Fire Brigade had been put on notice for years about the issues. Nothing was done. The priority was on the block looking good from the outside, No emphasis was placed on safety.

 

So the Fire Brigade were out of their depth from the very beginning. That idiot, who clearly knows nothing at all, may have been better of admitting that he knew absolutely nothing about Grenfell. Shameful in itself.

But instead, he tried to pretend that he knew something and made, once again, a complete fool of himself.

If it walks like a duck...

An utter moron.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, evadgib said:

The 'stick to beat him with' brigade will milk this simply because he's a brexiter. His comments were perhaps ill advised but he has subsequently apologized.

Or is it you defending him because he’s a Brexiteer?

 

Regardless, he’s exposed the disconnect from and contempt of ordinary people that comes from his privileged position amongst the real elite who have no idea or concern for how ordinary people live.

[evadgib]

7 hours ago, JamJar said:

 

"Perhaps ill advised"? Have you lost all dignity and integrity? Did someone advise him to say this?

 

Those buffoons(Boris and Jacob) are making laughing stocks of us. If that is what is considered British, god help us.

 

The Mogg is being milked like a friesian on this morning's news; all of which being remain outlets which is hardly surprising. How would they have reacted if it had been Grieve or Miller?

[sanemax]

29 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Or is it you defending him because he’s a Brexiteer?

 

'

Although saying his comments were "ill-advised" can not be classified as "defending him "

Of course, you are welcome to believe that saying a person is  "ill advised" is actually defending someone 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, JamJar said:

 

 

Not difficult at all. 

He was completely wrong. -

 

I did mean the people in the building . 

Difficult call as whether to do what the fireman said or ignore what they said

[ivor bigun]

All i can say is ,if i was in a tower block it was on fire and i was able to ,i would leave ,no matter what anyone said .

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Jacob was probably right, talking about the fire service. Problem is people stick to procedures even if common sense indicates people should be evacuated.

 

Even fire service have said in hindsight they should have been evacuated

In a well designed building fires do not spread from floor to floor. 

 

The cladding added to the outside of the building created the conditions for the fire to spread vertically. 

 

Either people knew that was a risk (ie they were aware of the hazard created by the cladding) or they were not aware in which case, remain in your room is good advice. 

 

The smoked clogged stairwells made that advice the only reasonable option. 

 

It was the cladding that vectored the fire between floors.

 

The decision to apply the cladding was excluded from the scope of the public inquiry.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Although saying his comments were "ill-advised" can not be classified as "defending him "

Of course, you are welcome to believe that saying a person is  "ill advised" is actually defending someone 

When somebody makes an overtly crass and deeply offensive comment, especially in the contents of so many people losing their lives, then yes I say characterising their comments as 'ill-advised'  is defending that person. 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Chomper Higgot

[roo860]

6 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Actually, I was a macro economics teacher - but yes, I never forgot my father was a postman and my mother a housewife.

 

 

PS. Do you concider Neil Young to be a low class poor hippy?

 

Oops, edit: not a low class teacher, but a lecturer.

Well said, there's no shame in working at Macro!

????

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

All i can say is ,if i was in a tower block it was on fire and i was able to ,i would leave ,no matter what anyone said .

The stairwells were chocked with smoke, you would not have been able to leave. 

[englishoak]

The cult of political drama queen outrage strikes again... hes right, but then again common sense is in short supply these days. 

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

When somebody makes an overtly crass and deeply offensive comment, especially in the contents of so many people losing their lives, then yes I say characterising their comments as 'ill-advised'  is defending that person. 

 

Do you disagree ?

Do you think that his remarks were not "ill advised"?

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Do you disagree ?

Do you think that his remarks were not "ill advised"?

No I don't think they were 'ill advised', I think they were a window into  his detachment from the lives of ordinary people.

 

I doubt he has ever even set foot in a tower block, and yet he pontificates on what people should have done in this tragedy. 

 

Utterly disgusting. 

 

 

 

[sanemax]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No I don't think they were 'ill advised', I think they were a window into  his detachment from the lives of ordinary people.

 

I doubt he has ever even set foot in a tower block, and yet he pontificates on what people should have done in this tragedy. 

 

Utterly disgusting. 

 

 

 

OK, so as you dont think his comments were "ill advised", you must feel that his comments were wise and considered  ?

[transam]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No I don't think they were 'ill advised', I think they were a window into  his detachment from the lives of ordinary people.

 

I doubt he has ever even set foot in a tower block, and yet he pontificates on what people should have done in this tragedy. 

 

Utterly disgusting. 

 

 

 

What on earth are you talking about....You clearly do not like people who are way up the ladder from yourself...????

[PremiumLane]

7 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Still teaching the low class nonsense? Rich is bad...poor is good...stay poor children. Mummy Uk will take care of you. How Mummy? Shh don't you worry your pretty heads about that. Mummy will take the money from the rich people. How can I be rich mummy..shhhhh….don't ever think about that. Mummy...yes child...where have all the rich people gone?

I think you are confused, you will find it is the rich that get the benefits from 'Mummy UK', from paying people bad wages so they have to claim benefits just to survive to giving them huge tax breaks - the whole system is geared to pumping money from society to the pockets of the few

[Emdog]

Common sense tells us the victims should have been born wealthy and entitled, thus avoiding the disaster altogether. Not too many rich were staying there....

[Orton Rd]

How dare he tell an obvious truth he will be criticizing all the scammers who conned the authorities out of over 700k next.

[DannyCarlton]

I have always maintained that social class is inversly proportional to intelligence. Also, in the priveliged UK, intelligence doesn't equate to education.

 

Thank you Mogg for proving me right on both premises. A highly educated, upper class, idiot.

 

His excuse doesn't hold any water. If you saw the initial interview, it was quite clear that he was belittling the victims for having less intelligence than him. You're having a laugh Moggie. He clearly said "what I would've done", "with the benefit of hindsight" didn't come into it. A particularly pathetic walk back as it's claimed that he has a better command of the English language than most.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[RickBradford]

6 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Then change the system, so that there is no more need for envy.

There is never any need for envy; it's a personal choice, along with its siblings, resentment and bitterness.

 

There are undoubted inequalities around, and there always will be. Indulging in envy is the worst possible response to being on the wrong side of an inequality.

[evadgib]

41 minutes ago, transam said:

What on earth are you talking about....You clearly do not like people who are way up the ladder from yourself...????

The 'Grenfell bonfire in the back garden' thread from a year ago will no doubt offer some perspective on the current faux outrage. It'll be interesting to compare views expressed there to those expressed here today (& NO I CAN'T be bothered to look it up but somehow don't feel i'll need to ???? )

Edited November 6, 2019 by evadgib

[thaiguzzi]

14 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

just a typical politician, brainless..

No.

Much worse.

An entitled toff who is a class snob, looks down on commoners, and anyone "beneath" him.

So far out of touch with reality, and thinks Britain should be like it was in the 1930's, pre war, when it was still "important", had an empire, a large Commonwealth that it could rule over and keep those "Fuzzy Wuzzies" under control.

The guy is an elitist sicko, who longs for the past, and what once was.

He'd fit right in over here with this current govt....

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Not sure of all the facts in this particular incident but why should anyone apologise for being who they are? Should I apologise for being ozzie.

Apologise for having an education?

Apologise for being a hiso etonian tory?

You've lost me to be honest.

People are who they are.

Like you say, you are not sure of all the facts in this particular incident.

[Chomper Higgot]

29 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

There is never any need for envy; it's a personal choice, along with its siblings, resentment and bitterness.

 

There are undoubted inequalities around, and there always will be. Indulging in envy is the worst possible response to being on the wrong side of an inequality.

While I would generally agree with you on this, envy is not always a personal choice.

 

The incitement of envy is a centuries old means to divide people for political ends and used used by politicians across the political spectrum.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

55 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

There is never any need for envy; it's a personal choice, along with its siblings, resentment and bitterness.

 

There are undoubted inequalities around, and there always will be. Indulging in envy is the worst possible response to being on the wrong side of an inequality.

I don't think it is envy that makes people criticise Mogg, but, rather, frustration that we live in a society where many people automatically defer to those who were born into privilege. Mogg was brought up to believe that he was a leader of men and the rest of us have been conditioned to accept that. 

 

If we continue to accept it, we will continue to have people like Mogg, Johnson, Cameron etc make the major decisions in our lives, rather than actually being governed by competent, intelligent and capable people who have experienced life beyond their class bubble. 

[DannyCarlton]

^ This.

[Estrada]

If Rees-Mogg used common sense we would not be leaving the EU.

[evadgib]

3 minutes ago, secondfusilier said:

Rees-Mogg and common sense should never be used in the same sentence.

He seems quite good at it to me:

 

[Baerboxer]

Complete <deleted>!  If people had ignored the FB advice and been killed he'd have said they shouldn't have ignored it.

 

He should get together with Baroness Lawrence who claimed the FB would've tried harder to save people if they'd been white!

 

With morons like those two we still wonder why the countries in a mess.