Gunmen kill Mormon family members in north Mexico

[car720]

Of all the places in the world where the C.I.A. have got their noses why aren't they in this place?  Or are they?

One must wonder about the money making opportunities here for them.

Trump cannot help with normal military without it being an act of war but he could use them so why doesn't he?

[KKr]

12 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

In 2010, two members of the Chihuahua Mormon community, including one from the LeBaron family, were killed in apparent revenge after security forces tracked drug gang members. The Mormons had suffered widespread kidnappings before that.

 

16 minutes ago, car720 said:

Of all the places in the world where the C.I.A. have got their noses why aren't they in this place?  Or are they?

Guys who used to go to this area, in your opinion, is it likely there is a connection between the two ?

[Tayaout]

50 minutes ago, car720 said:

Of all the places in the world where the C.I.A. have got their noses why aren't they in this place?  Or are they?

One must wonder about the money making opportunities here for them.

Trump cannot help with normal military without it being an act of war but he could use them so why doesn't he?

In the US it's mostly the DEA fighting the cartels and they have corruption issues and the CIA is not much better. In Mexico some of the military and police works for the cartel who pay the best or threaten their familly to fight competing cartels. The war on drug will never work at least not if the goal is to fight drug trafficking and violence. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Tayaout

[zydeco]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's not a rational reaction to this. Mexico is a big country. The areas that most tourists would go are not the same as the places dominated by the cartels.

Like Acapulco???  

 

[zydeco]

12 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Note to self: " Mark Mexico off your bucket list".   ????

There are some enclaves that are okay, such as Aguascalientes. But you need to look for them. And even in those places violence and cartels have begun to creep in gradually. 

[zydeco]

12 hours ago, sirineou said:

Is not on its way , it is. IMO Partly because if its geographical position , as a gateway to the US from the south.

The main consumer.

I used to import silver jewelry from a village named Taxco in Mexico, we would fly into Mexico city . once a year, some times more, then take a 2:30 hr ride through the mountains to Taxco meet with the artizans inspect designs , choose stones, set prices.  After hearing horror stories of abductions and murders we stopped doing that, We did what business we could at trade shows, and over the internet, and searched for alternate sources,

That's how I ended up  in Thailand.

 Mexico is a very dangerous place if you leave the beaten path.  

I remember as a youngster travelling with my parents in the mid 1960s. No problem whatsoever. Going by myself in the late 60s and early 1970s, the main concern and item confiscated by US Border control at Laredo was switchblades. Things sort of remained okay through most of the 1970s. By the mid 80s, the situation had greatly deteriorated. and has continued to go downhill. Nowadays, I would never even think of a border trip or drive through the border states. Lots of reasons why, including cartels being given free rein but also Nafta coming in and obliterating traditional communal life and family farms, replacing them with large scale agribusiness.

[zydeco]

5 hours ago, neeray said:

Stories like this execution, stories of heads and bodies hanging from overpasses and murders in Cancun are alarming. I'll take my chances with Thailand road carnage any day, and for the rest of my days!

A lot of Central and South America has blown up lately, including places like Ecuador and Peru which have long been touted as alternatives to Thailand because they were cheaper. Now, you know why.

[zydeco]

4 hours ago, Tayaout said:

I have a friend expat that live in Mexico city since a couple years and he had a gun pointed to his face during a bar dispute.

This is what happens when the standard of living goes up. Back in the 70s and 80s, they would have pulled knife on you, instead of a gun.

[Jingthing]

Here is an incomplete list of mostly popular areas of Mexico that are relatively safe for tourists and expats. There are probably some errors in it. Not saying 100 percent safe. No place is.

 

Asterisks on places considered among the most safe in Mexico.

 

Note that Northern Mexico in general is not considered safe.

 

This list (of course do current research) should keep people busy for several trips and more likely than not, you won't get murdered.

 

Puerto Vallarta*

Lake Chapala (outside of Guadalajara)*

Guadalajara (probably OK for a visit but some higher risk for expats)

Mexico City (the better neighborhoods)

Oaxaca (don't miss it)

Merida*

Cancun (beach area part)

Queretaro*

Puebla / Cholula*

San Miguel de Allende*

Guanajuato (not among the safest)

Ixtapa / Zihuatanejo

Mazatlán  (not among the safest, stay in the old town area, very charming!)

In Baja California -- Cabo and La Paz  (far from border) and Ensenada (closer to border)

San Cristobal

 

That was my list. See how it compares to this list: 

https://www.thetravel.com/10-safest-places-to-travel-to-in-mexico-and-9-to-avoid/

I can see there is a lot of overlap but I haven't edited my list based on it. 

 

Acapulco has been considered VERY dangerous for many many years already. I did go before that time with no problems whatsoever but I wouldn't go now. Glad that I got a chance to see the famous cliff divers.

 

To add MEXICO CITY is the most popular destination for international younger and entrepreneurial expats. It's one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world. It's a top choice for the famous Nomad Capitalist youtuber though he likes Kuala Lumpur better.

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Jingthing

[Bournville]

13 hours ago, sirineou said:

Is not on its way , it is. IMO Partly because if its geographical position , as a gateway to the US from the south.

The main consumer.

I used to import silver jewelry from a village named Taxco in Mexico, we would fly into Mexico city . once a year, some times more, then take a 2:30 hr ride through the mountains to Taxco meet with the artizans inspect designs , choose stones, set prices.  After hearing horror stories of abductions and murders we stopped doing that, We did what business we could at trade shows, and over the internet, and searched for alternate sources,

That's how I ended up  in Thailand.

 Mexico is a very dangerous place if you leave the beaten path.  

I think more precisely.. Mexico is a dangerous place for business men and people with wealth. 

[Bournville]

12 hours ago, bendejo said:

Mexico is an example of how corruption can lead to an overall lawlessness where the bad guys become the good guys.  

People from that area tell me that El Chapo, demon villain in the press, was considered a hero because what little he did for the locals (he created jobs, didn't he?) was a lot more than what the officials did for them.  If you crossed him, or got in the way of the gunfire like these poor souls did, that's another story.

It's like a cross between The Wild Bunch and a Mad Max movie.

 

 

 

Spot on. The cartel are often regarded as more trusting and consistent than their own government.. Notably.. The police. I would never ask the Mexican police to help me. Here in Thailand I think it would be 50/50 of getting a "good cop". 

[Bournville]

5 hours ago, neeray said:

It is very sad to read of events like this. It would seem to me that murdering the women and children constitutes crossing the line.

 

While I realize Mexico is a big country and some areas are more dangerous than others, from what I read, crime and murder seems to happen almost everywhere in Mexico, of course, some places more than others.

It surprises me to no end when I see Mexico suggested as an alternative destination to Thailand for long term stayers.

Stories like this execution, stories of heads and bodies hanging from overpasses and murders in Cancun are alarming. I'll take my chances with Thailand road carnage any day, and for the rest of my days!

That's a very interesting argument... One which I think about a lot.. Having lived in both Mexico and Thailand for more than 3  or 4 years... Being a victim of a crime in Mexico via a gun... Is very remote and something I rarely though about. Being killed on the roads here in Thailand is something I think about EVERY TIME I get in my motorbike. That's MUCH more stress on a daily basis. 

 

In fact, in Chiang Mai.. I was a victim of a hit and run while I was walking on the side of a street.. I was lucky with only minor injuries. 

 

Also interesting... The only murder I ever saw.. Anywhere. .. Including bad parts of USA where I lived for 38 years and Mexico for 3 years... Was in Chiang Mai! Thai wife killed her farang husband right in the street in Chiang Mai city center. 

 

Go figure... 

[from the home of CC]

no worries - Trump just announced a 'war on drugs against the cartels' maybe he'll talk rocket man in lobbing a tactical nuke at em' lol..

[Jingthing]

Speaking for myself, as horrible an incident as this Mormon family massacre is, I don't see any logical reason (at this point anyway) for people to totally avoid the safer parts of Mexico (where they were was one of the most unsafe!) for either tourism or expatriation.

[spidermike007]

Legalize all drugs tomorrow, including heroin and cocaine, and the cartels disappear off the face of the earth in 30-60 days. Also, you are then able to release one million people from US prisons, who are there on drug charges, most of which are minor offenses. The added benefit is that with the legalization, comes decreased demand.

 

Just admit that the "war on drugs" has failed miserably, and the billions of dollars spent, the thousands of lives sacrificed, and the entire effort has been a waste of time. The only reason this silly battle continues in the US, is to bow down to, and support the private prison industry.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, from the home of CC said:

no worries - Trump just announced a 'war on drugs against the cartels' maybe he'll talk rocket man in lobbing a tactical nuke at em' lol..

Mexicans don't want an escalated war. It's was very undiplomatic of 45 (as usual) to push for that. 

[madmen]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Speaking for myself, as horrible an incident as this Mormon family massacre is, I don't see any logical reason (at this point anyway) for people to totally avoid the safer parts of Mexico (where they were was one of the most unsafe!) for either tourism or expatriation.

If that happened in Thailand you would have bashed for 50 pages yet somehow its OK in Mexico ? Unbelievable double standards

[from the home of CC]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Mexicans don't want an escalated war. It's was very undiplomatic of 45 (as usual) to push for that. 

I agree, it's always the innocents that pay the price and they have suffered enough.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, madmen said:

If that happened in Thailand you would have bashed for 50 pages yet somehow its OK in Mexico ? Unbelievable double standards

What a bizarre post. 

Please desist from personally attacking me based on garbage, false assumptions.

I was here during the Bangkok burnings and mass shootings in the streets.

Even Pattaya was hit by that madness during the conference.

I never said people should leave because of that.

[Jane Dough]

13 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Seems like the Mormans stuck there noses in where it wasn't wanted, and paid the price. Don't <deleted> with the cartel.

 

I have similar feelings about the Jehovahs Witnesses

Why do you say that? Do you have personal involvement in the drugs trade or with cartels?

 

Why do you have antipathy towards Jehovah's Witnesses?

 

Rooster

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Jane Dough said:

Why do you say that? Do you have personal involvement in the drugs trade or with cartels?

 

Why do you have antipathy towards Jehovah's Witnesses?

 

Rooster

It's well documented that the Mormon enclave there had a history of opposing the drug cartels there. Rightfully so of course but a dangerous business. It's not known yet if that was the reason for this slaughter or if it was more of a random mistaken identity thing. 

[jak2002003]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's well documented that the Mormon enclave there had a history of opposing the drug cartels there. Rightfully so of course but a dangerous business. It's not known yet if that was the reason for this slaughter or if it was more of a random mistaken identity thing. 

 

 

Well, they can get comfort they are all together with their god now in paradise for eternal bliss….. their god let that happen to them... so it must have been his will, or they were such bad sinners they all got this as gods punishment as he is all seeing and all knowing and controls everything.... that is the sort of thing they believe.    What is sad is that the children and babies, innocent human beings that don't know better got murdered for nothing and now the rest of these people will be praying to their god and still going on with all their nonsense, when clearly this shows their religion is a fairy tale.  

 

I agree with other posters that this war of drugs is to blame for the mass crime and violence in Mexico.  Just legalise all drugs and be done with it!  

 

 

[Lucky dog]

I started a blueberry farm near Guadalajara and after three years the cartel took it. They said they would kill us if we returned. We had some friends that it happened to and they returned and it hey cut them up In little pieces. I feel very safe here compare to there. Also had cops break into my car caught in video. 

[car720]

7 hours ago, Tayaout said:

In the US it's mostly the DEA fighting the cartels and they have corruption issues and the CIA is not much better. In Mexico some of the military and police works for the cartel who pay the best or threaten their familly to fight competing cartels. The war on drug will never work at least not if the goal is to fight drug trafficking and violence. 

So it would seem that the answer to all drug problems is to legalize them all but I don't think that would stop the extortion etc.., etc..

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, car720 said:

So it would seem that the answer to all drug problems is to legalize them all but I don't think that would stop the extortion etc.., etc..

It worked when they revoked prohibition, how many gunfights have there been with bootleggers recently?

So why wouldn't it work if they legalised recreational drugs?

Edited November 6, 2019 by BritManToo

[metisdead]

Some off topic trolling posts and replies have been removed. 

[metisdead]

 

Mexico family shooting: Suspect arrested in connection with 'incomprehensible' attack

 

 

Criminal investigators in northern Mexico say a suspect has been arrested and is under investigation for a possible connection with the deaths of nine family members — three women and six children — slaughtered Monday when cartel gunmen ambushed their vehicles.

In a statement posted on Facebook, the Agency for Criminal Investigation for the state of Sonora said Tuesday the suspect was found in the town of Agua Prieta, close to Arizona's border, holding two hostages who were gagged and tied inside a white pickup truck. 

The suspect, whose gender was not specified in the release, was also found in possession of four assault rifles and ammunition, as well as various large vehicles including a bullet-proofed SUV.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/11/06/mexico-family-ambush-gunmen-carry-out-evil-attack/4170787002/

 

[Crazy Alex]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Here is an incomplete list of mostly popular areas of Mexico that are relatively safe for tourists and expats. There are probably some errors in it. Not saying 100 percent safe. No place is.

 

Asterisks on places considered among the most safe in Mexico.

 

Note that Northern Mexico in general is not considered safe.

 

This list (of course do current research) should keep people busy for several trips and more likely than not, you won't get murdered.

 

Puerto Vallarta*

Lake Chapala (outside of Guadalajara)*

Guadalajara (probably OK for a visit but some higher risk for expats)

Mexico City (the better neighborhoods)

Oaxaca (don't miss it)

Merida*

Cancun (beach area part)

Queretaro*

Puebla / Cholula*

San Miguel de Allende*

Guanajuato (not among the safest)

Ixtapa / Zihuatanejo

Mazatlán  (not among the safest, stay in the old town area, very charming!)

In Baja California -- Cabo and La Paz  (far from border) and Ensenada (closer to border)

San Cristobal

 

That was my list. See how it compares to this list: 

https://www.thetravel.com/10-safest-places-to-travel-to-in-mexico-and-9-to-avoid/

I can see there is a lot of overlap but I haven't edited my list based on it. 

 

Acapulco has been considered VERY dangerous for many many years already. I did go before that time with no problems whatsoever but I wouldn't go now. Glad that I got a chance to see the famous cliff divers.

 

To add MEXICO CITY is the most popular destination for international younger and entrepreneurial expats. It's one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world. It's a top choice for the famous Nomad Capitalist youtuber though he likes Kuala Lumpur better.

 

There were 540 murders in Cancun in 2018. If that's relatively safe, I'd hate to see the risky cities.

 

http://therivieramayatimes.com/cancun-sees-record-540-murders-in-2018/

[Cryingdick]

18 hours ago, Tayaout said:

 

 

Glad this came up. I was just digging for the Vice documentary on this from 7 years ago. These people weren't killed randomly they were targeted and the beef goes way back. That being said 90% of Mexico is a no go zone.

 

 

[Cryingdick]

12 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Legalize all drugs tomorrow, including heroin and cocaine, and the cartels disappear off the face of the earth in 30-60 days. Also, you are then able to release one million people from US prisons, who are there on drug charges, most of which are minor offenses. The added benefit is that with the legalization, comes decreased demand.

 

Just admit that the "war on drugs" has failed miserably, and the billions of dollars spent, the thousands of lives sacrificed, and the entire effort has been a waste of time. The only reason this silly battle continues in the US, is to bow down to, and support the private prison industry.

 

Legalize those drugs with out trying to tax it to death. They legalized weed in California and Washington D.C. The price of an ounce legally in D.C. is $280. The black markets still thrive. California and Canada are finding nobody buys their pot legally for this reason. 

 

You have to take the profits out of it and we all know they would tax all of it to death.