O/A visa and insurance experience today

[el jefe]

11 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yea, whether you get a Non O say at Savannakhet/Vientiane or convert an Exempt to a Non-O at your local immigration office you are going to pay Bt2,000.  Then just before it expires you are going to pay Bt1,900 for a extension of stay.  So the core fees are same-same.  Then a person needs to price-in the associated costs of transportation (air/ground), hotel, fees to get across the border, time involved, etc....etc.  Then pick which method a person wants to use.   If you don't want to spend 2 days and a night in Laos to get a Non-O then maybe just doing a quick border run to kill off a current extension of stay/get an Exempt entry and then converting the Exempt to a Non-O is the way to go.   Cost-wise there really isn't really any major difference...it's more of just a personal choice as to which method will be easier for a person...and it will vary for each person.  

First, if you're living in CM, it's 4 days , 3 nights in Savanakhet. Vientiane is equally time consuming to get to. Some people say if you rush, you can make it just before the 11:00am closing in Vientiane. Same with the return. Too many variables.
Second, I understand the process to convert a VE entry to a Non-O. the problem is that if you live in  CM, the process isn't as easy. I tried the last time I was on a VE entry. Endless appointments and it never gets done. I know someone who tried 10 times. The only way to do it in CM is to use an agent. they want a 15,000 baht fee to "expedite" the process. I haven't heard of anyone doing it in CM themselves. Fortunately, if I time my last entry right, I can stay on my current O-A until Sept 2021. I'll deal with the new rules then.

Edited November 17, 2019 by el jefe
clarity

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, el jefe said:

No.

"Saiber" is getting an annual Non-Imm-O in his home country. Valid for 12 months but if used right it's good for 15. That visa allows a maximum stay of 90 days. No need to extend it 30 days before it expires. Just get a new one. No need for money in a Thai bank. No need to ever visit an Immigration office. For those who are traveling anyway, there is much less paperwork involved and is the easiest to get and deal with.

Until Thai Immigration changes the rules. Again.

Erm.. No..

 

Keep following the tread all the way back.. When I explained he could just go and get a non imm O (to then extend it) instead of an extended OA permission of stay he replies.. 

Quote

Where i have to leave the country every 90 days... not my intentions. O-A is absoloutely the perfect visa . ( from now on only if they accept a foreign insurer and stop this "Go-Hock" regarding mandatory Thai insurer. ) 

Which is what I am explaining isnt correct about having an O instead of an OA. You do NOT 'have' to leave the country every 90 days, anymore than you 'have' to leave at the end of 1 year on an OA. If he has managed to extend an OA based permission of stay, he can extend an O permission of stay. With exactly the same requirements minus the insurance. 

With me now ??

[Max69xl]

38 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Erm.. No..

 

Keep following the tread all the way back.. When I explained he could just go and get a non imm O (to then extend it) instead of an extended OA permission of stay he replies.. 

Which is what I am explaining isnt correct about having an O instead of an OA. You do NOT 'have' to leave the country every 90 days, anymore than you 'have' to leave at the end of 1 year on an OA. If he has managed to extend an OA based permission of stay, he can extend an O permission of stay. With exactly the same requirements minus the insurance. 

With me now ??

I also tried to explain it, but he simply doesn't understand. 

[Chill27]

It's been said on here that re entering on a Non Imm O A with a re entry permit, you shouldn't need to show proof of Med Insurance.

But my Non Imm OA visa was issued in August as a multiple entry visa.

Are people saying that in order to avoid buying the insurance, I should ignore the "Multiple Entry" on the actual visa, and in addition also buy a re entry permit? I'm going back to the Uk in December for 5 weeks.

Or are references to the "re entry permit" the same as the multiple entry that was included when I obtained the Visa?

The more I read, the more confusing it gets!

Thanks, if someone could clarify for me.

[lkv]

4 hours ago, el jefe said:

When my permission to stay is up in Sept 2021, I'll be back to one METV and one SETV every year. Of course, the rules are going to change several times between now and then.

At which point, you will be told by the IO's (and some members of this forum):

 

"Get the right visa."

 

The right visa being non O-A. ????

 

Or you might hear: "it's because of people like you that are abusing the system, that it's now harder for the rest of us", from select forum members.

Edited November 17, 2019 by lkv

[UncleMhee]

4 minutes ago, Chill27 said:

Or are references to the "re entry permit" the same as the multiple entry that was included when I obtained the Visa?

The more I read, the more confusing it gets!

Thanks, if someone could clarify for me.

O-A issued in August shouldn't require insurance. However using one of your multiple entries may require insurance. That will be an entirely new entry of one year so it's a distinct possibility. To keep your current trip you will need to buy a re-entry permit which won't require insurance if you enter on that. Your likely to be told you can't buy a re-entry permit because your visa is still valid. I have previously bought one in the same scenario though and entered on it. The IO told me the RE Permit trumped the ME.

Clear as mud I know and, up to you.

[Max69xl]

15 minutes ago, Chill27 said:

It's been said on here that re entering on a Non Imm O A with a re entry permit, you shouldn't need to show proof of Med Insurance.

But my Non Imm OA visa was issued in August as a multiple entry visa.

Are people saying that in order to avoid buying the insurance, I should ignore the "Multiple Entry" on the actual visa, and in addition also buy a re entry permit? I'm going back to the Uk in December for 5 weeks.

Or are references to the "re entry permit" the same as the multiple entry that was included when I obtained the Visa?

The more I read, the more confusing it gets!

Thanks, if someone could clarify for me.

You have to stay in Thailand while the O-A Visa is valid,and when it's about to expire,you leave the country without a re-entry permit. This way the O-A will be invalid when you re-enter Thailand after the expiration date. You have to start all over again with for example a 60 days tourist visa that after 30 days can be converted into a 90 days Non-Immigrant O at the local immigration office. Cost 2000 baht. After 60 days out of those 90 days you can apply for a 1 year extension.  Cost 1900 baht. IF you meet the financial requirements, of course. 

[Max69xl]

10 minutes ago, UncleMhee said:

O-A issued in August shouldn't require insurance. However using one of your multiple entries may require insurance. That will be an entirely new entry of one year so it's a distinct possibility. To keep your current trip you will need to buy a re-entry permit which won't require insurance if you enter on that. Your likely to be told you can't buy a re-entry permit because your visa is still valid. I have previously bought one in the same scenario though and entered on it. The IO told me the RE Permit trumped the ME.

Clear as mud I know and, up to you.

Does every IO at every border reason the same? 

[lkv]

2 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You have to stay in Thailand while the O-A Visa is valid,and when it's about to expire,you leave the country without a re-entry permit. This way the O-A will be invalid when you re-enter Thailand after the expiration date. You have to start all over again with for example a 60 days tourist visa that after 30 days can be converted into a 90 days Non-Immigrant O at the local immigration office. Cost 2000 baht. After 60 days out of those 90 days you can apply for a 1 year extension.  Cost 1900 baht. IF you meet the financial requirements, of course. 

That wasn't his question.

 

He said: should he buy a re-entry permit on the current permission of stay before he goes back to the UK for 5 weeks, and comes back in January, to keep his current permission of stay active, or should he attempt to re-enter in January on the Non O-A, request a fresh 12 month permission of stay, and be possibly hit with insurance.

 

His non O-A will expire in August 2020.

[UncleMhee]

9 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Does every IO at every border reason the same?

He's going to the UK in December for five weeks! I think as far as we know, Swampy, DMK & CNX may or may not ask for insurance on ME; but won't on RE Permit.

All other border crossing would be irrelevant I think. My experience was in C-M.

Edited November 17, 2019 by UncleMhee

[Maestro]

7 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You have to stay in Thailand while the O-A Visa is valid...

 

If you are saying that he cannot go to the UK in December for five weeks as planned, you are wrong, but it is possible that he may be asked for an insurance certificate on his return to Thailand.

[Andrew Dwyer]

1 minute ago, Maestro said:

 

If you are saying that he cannot go to the UK in December for five weeks as planned, you are wrong, but it is possible that he may be asked for an insurance certificate on his return to Thailand.

Hence him wanting to get a re-entry permit to override the ME part of the visa and not get the insurance issue.

 

By the way, I have no idea if that would work just trying to clarify his question .

[Peter Denis]

38 minutes ago, Chill27 said:

It's been said on here that re entering on a Non Imm O A with a re entry permit, you shouldn't need to show proof of Med Insurance.

But my Non Imm OA visa was issued in August as a multiple entry visa.

Are people saying that in order to avoid buying the insurance, I should ignore the "Multiple Entry" on the actual visa, and in addition also buy a re entry permit? I'm going back to the Uk in December for 5 weeks.

Or are references to the "re entry permit" the same as the multiple entry that was included when I obtained the Visa?

The more I read, the more confusing it gets!

Thanks, if someone could clarify for me.

Post #1132 (attached) is a first-hand report of a TVF member ( @eljefe) that used exactly that strategy to avoid being queried on health-insurance when returning to Thailand on his stlll valid pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa.  Interestingly, he was simply stamped in for 12 months without any mentioning of health-insurance and ignoring the Re-entry permit he had bought as a safeguard.

 

[lkv]

40 minutes ago, UncleMhee said:

He's going to the UK in December for five weeks! I think as far as we know, Swampy, DMK & CNX may or may not ask for insurance on ME; but won't on RE Permit.

All other border crossing would be irrelevant I think. My experience was in C-M.

I think he should do the following

 

Forget re-entry permit.

 

Enter on non O-A in January.

 

Complete on the arrival card a short intended duration of stay. Let's say 30 days.

 

Claim he has travel insurance, and why does he need to buy a one year insurance, he does not stay for 1 year.

 

We had this scenario, i posted a screenshot from FB, and that person was stamped for 12 months.

 

It's complicated enough to confuse the IO's, because they cannot sell you insurance for 1 month, and "you only want to stay 1 month". And you have your own travel insurance anyway.

 

If at the time they stamp "visa exempt" (I see it illegal actually, visa exempt should be given to people not holding a visa, and the visa is valid), then just go to some land border, do a visa run, and get a year.

 

Denial of entry under 12.1 would be abusive in my opinion. There is no other paragraph in Section 12 that would potentially cover this situation.

 

And let's not forget that, when someone gets rejected, they need to be rejected under a specific paragraph from Section 12.

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by lkv

[el jefe]

23 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Post #1132 (attached) is a first-hand report of a TVF member ( @eljefe) that used exactly that strategy to avoid being queried on health-insurance when returning to Thailand on his stlll valid pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa.  Interestingly, he was simply stamped in for 12 months without any mentioning of health-insurance and ignoring the Re-entry permit he had bought as a safeguard.

 

Almost correct. I gave them my reentry permit number when I arrived because I wanted that canceled. They stamped me in for a little over 10 months in accordance with my original permission to stay. And it was a hassle getting that rentry permit.

[el jefe]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

At which point, you will be told by the IO's (and some members of this forum):

 

"Get the right visa."

 

The right visa being non O-A. ????

 

Or you might hear: "it's because of people like you that are abusing the system, that it's now harder for the rest of us", from select forum members.

Is there a maximum amount of time you can spend in Thailand as a tourist?

As I've said before, I enter and leave an average of 5 times a year for the past 15 years. Most years I spend about 150 days in Thailand. This year will be the first time I am ever spending over 200 days here. That's why I applied for an O-A visa. I read somewhere on this thread that if an expat is not in Thailand for 6 months, they're not considered a resident and can't even get insurance.
And as I said, I was only questioned on one of those 70 entries (VE at either BKK or CNX). They flipped thru my passport and saw all the entries and I showed them my plane ticket out in 14 days. The IO stamped me and and said "next time ...", the standard way of saving face.  If the NY consulate and the IO's agree I'm a tourist, then I don't care what the forum members think and say. Sorry.

The people abusing the system are the ones paying agents in CM and getting extensions from the Hua Hin office.

[lkv]

15 minutes ago, el jefe said:

Is there a maximum amount of time you can spend in Thailand as a tourist?

I don't disagree with you, I have also spent considerable amounts of time as a tourist in Thailand, up to 10 months a year in the past.

 

But what happens is, like this recent post here from Bangkok Expats, this guy is currently in a holding cell, in Suvarnabhumi, on his second METV.

 

https://m.facebook.com/groups/188966707797259?view=permalink&id=3162715650422335

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by lkv

[el jefe]

11 minutes ago, lkv said:

I don't disagree with you, I have also spent considerable amounts of time as a tourist in Thailand, up to 10 months a year in the past.

 

But what happens is, like this recent post here from Bangkok Expats, this guy is currently in a holding cell, in Suvarnabhumi, on his second METV.

 

https://m.facebook.com/groups/188966707797259?view=permalink&id=3162715650422335

 

The link isn't working and I can't read Thai. But if 2 METV's got him a holding cell, I should have life in prison, as should the many others who are doing the same.
If you stayed 10 months as a tourist then I should be just fine with my 150-200 days a year. Thanks.

[lkv]

11 minutes ago, el jefe said:

If you stayed 10 months as a tourist, then I should be just fine with my 150-200 days a year. Thanks.

Not in 2019 I haven't. If the link is not working, you can search on Google/Facebook with keywords.

 

I don't wish to go too much offtopic, this is about non O-A, the point was, METV and SETV may or may not be a solution to people avoiding non O-A, if they spend too much time on them.

 

For genuine short touristic usage, shouldn't be a problem.

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by lkv

[Momofarang]

33 minutes ago, el jefe said:

The people abusing the system are the ones paying agents in CM and getting extensions from the Hua Hin office.

Not wrong, indeed...

[el jefe]

16 minutes ago, lkv said:

Not in 2019 I haven't. If the link is not working, you can search on Google/Facebook with keywords.

 

I don't wish to go too much offtopic, this is about non O-A, the point was, METV and SETV may or may not be a solution to people avoiding non O-A, if they spend too much time on them.

 

For genuine short touristic usage, shouldn't be a problem.

 

Actually, I thought this thread was for reporting actual experiences of those arriving on O-A visas. 1260 posts and I've only seen about 10 first hand reports. One was mine.
I also thought that this was for alternative solutions to the lack of health insurance problem. I gave one of those -- get a reentry permit if you're on your first year of an O-A. Worked for me.
Not everyone reading this lives in Thailand 365 days a year. I know more people here on SETV's and METV's than on O-A's. A METV gives you 9 months. If Immigration and the MFA want to change that, they can.
It this works for some, I'm glad I could help.

[lkv]

Just now, el jefe said:

A METV gives you 9 months. If Immigration and the MFA want to change that, they can.
It this works for some, I'm glad I could help.

No no, MFA says permission of stay 60 days per entry.

 

If you want 9 months per entry, use non O-A.

 

[TheAppletons]

6 minutes ago, lkv said:

No no, MFA says permission of stay 60 days per entry.

 

If you want 9 months per entry, use non O-A.

 

  Get METV. 

 

  Enter for 60 days, get 30 days extension.  Leave.

 

  Enter for 60 days, get 30 days extension.  Leave again.

 

  Enter for 60 days, get 30 days extension.  Leave. 

 

  Total: 9 months - end of METV.

 

[Chill27]

1 hour ago, UncleMhee said:

O-A issued in August shouldn't require insurance. However using one of your multiple entries may require insurance. That will be an entirely new entry of one year so it's a distinct possibility. To keep your current trip you will need to buy a re-entry permit which won't require insurance if you enter on that. Your likely to be told you can't buy a re-entry permit because your visa is still valid. I have previously bought one in the same scenario though and entered on it. The IO told me the RE Permit trumped the ME.

Clear as mud I know and, up to you.

Thanks Uncle for the clarification and to everyone else who responded.

So am I correct in thinking that if I exit again next July then re enter Thailand again before the expiry of my original Non Imm O A visa, I'll be stamped with another year, which will take me through to July 2021? Ie, every time I depart and re enter during the first year, I'll get stamped with a fresh one year stay on re entry?

If that's the case I may try to circumvent the insurance issue by purchasing re entry permits every time I leave the country until July 2021

 

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

I don't disagree with you, I have also spent considerable amounts of time as a tourist in Thailand, up to 10 months a year in the past.

 

But what happens is, like this recent post here from Bangkok Expats, this guy is currently in a holding cell, in Suvarnabhumi, on his second METV.

 

https://m.facebook.com/groups/188966707797259?view=permalink&id=3162715650422335

 

 

In 2019 this person entered Thailand 3 times

Entered on 21/2/2019 with a multi entry tourist visa
Left Thailand on 5/4/2019
He stayed in Thailand for 2 months

 

(Info added by me: 2 months out of Thailand)

 

Entered on 20/6/2019 with a tourist visa (they don't write which type)
He made a border run at Phu Nam Ron crossing and got a 30 day visa exempt. (Exact dates, and possible extensions are not mentioned)
Left Thailand on 13/10/2019
He stayed in Thailand for 4 months.

 

(Info added by me: 1 month out of Thailand)

 

Entered on 15/11/2019 with a tourist visa (they don't write which type)
The foreigner indicated that he will stay for 3 months.
Because of his history they assume he wants to stay in Thailand continuously and he might work in Thailand, he does not enter Thailand for tourism.
Thus he will be denied under Immigration Act sections 12(2) and (3)

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by jackdd

[UncleMhee]

1 hour ago, Chill27 said:

So am I correct in thinking that if I exit again next July then re enter Thailand again before the expiry of my original Non Imm O A visa, I'll be stamped with another year, which will take me through to July 2021?

Yes.......that entry will be on an original ME and may or may not require insurance.

 

1 hour ago, Chill27 said:

every time I depart and re enter during the first year, I'll get stamped with a fresh one year stay on re entry?

Without a RE Permit.....Yes. Possibility of insurance requirements.

1 hour ago, Chill27 said:

If that's the case I may try to circumvent the insurance issue by purchasing re entry permits every time I leave the country until July 2021

I was unsure of the whole ME deal, was wrongly told I needed a permit and bought a single no worries, no questions asked. Though there are many posts here that say RE Permits cannot be bought with live ME's still on the visa i.e. before your "Enter Before" date. Your expiry date.

Eg. I first entered in May 2018, got one year. Bought permit August, went out for a month Dec-Jan, stamped back on RE till May 2019. Visa expiry April 2019, went out prior for two days, got stamped back in till April 2020. April 2020 is my next hurdle.....will I or won't I need insurance for an extension.

 

Note:- After July 2020 buy a multi RE or you will void your visa 

Edited November 17, 2019 by UncleMhee

[AAArdvark]

On 11/16/2019 at 10:11 PM, Max69xl said:

If the O-A is about to expire,then leave the country without a re-entry permit, and the O-A is officially invalid. Go to the consulate in, let's say Savannaket in Laos and apply for a 90 days Non-Immigrant O Visa based on retirement. Enter Thailand and after 60 days apply for a 1 year extension at the local immigration office. IF, he meets the financial requirements. 

That person would have to leave while the O-A is still valid and stay outside of Thailand until it expires since the valid O-A would have a ME with it.  This might be tricky if there are any issues with the 90 day O.

[brianj1964]

On 16 November 2019 at 7:43 PM, stat said:

Why not "simply" get a second passport from your homecountry and get new visa? Perfectly legal in most countries I know. Leave TH with old passport enter with 2nd passport. u can just send the 2nd pp from Thailand to embassy in your native country and have it resend to mate in homecountry who then forwards your passport to Thailand. Worked for me in 2011 with 2 tourist visas back 2 back, alas before biometrics at airports were introduced. But to my knowledge they just confirm if you fit the biometrics in your passport not if you have left Th in the morning with another passport as in my case.

 

Good luck!

Should he order new fingerprints too? Things have changed since you did that in 2011, they will have his prints somewhere if he has entered recently

Edited November 17, 2019 by brianj1964

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

Because of his history they assume he wants to stay in Thailand continuously and he might work in Thailand, he does not enter Thailand for tourism.

That's how most people find a legitimate job in Thailand.

 

They enter on a tourist visa, find a job, then leave the country and change visa type to one that allows work, of course this can only be done once you have found your job.....

[Chill27]

2 hours ago, UncleMhee said:

Yes.......that entry will be on an original ME and may or may not require insurance.

 

Without a RE Permit.....Yes. Possibility of insurance requirements.

I was unsure of the whole ME deal, was wrongly told I needed a permit and bought a single no worries, no questions asked. Though there are many posts here that say RE Permits cannot be bought with live ME's still on the visa i.e. before your "Enter Before" date. Your expiry date.

Eg. I first entered in May 2018, got one year. Bought permit August, went out for a month Dec-Jan, stamped back on RE till May 2019. Visa expiry April 2019, went out prior for two days, got stamped back in till April 2020. April 2020 is my next hurdle.....will I or won't I need insurance for an extension.

 

Note:- After July 2020 buy a multi RE or you will void your visa 

Great, so my additional one year from July 2020 to July 2021 will be devoid of the ME and if I fail to then buy a ME permit from Immigration and leave the country, when I try to re enter my visa will be invalid?

Best of luck with your extension next April, hopefully things will be much clearer by then!