Converting Non OA to Non O Visa

[nightbird]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It could be that Penang is refusing to issue single entry O visas based on starting on retirement extensions now. In that case you will want to seek that elsewhere if you want to begin in Thailand on a 90 day O visa as a base for continuous annual extensions. Where will you be living in Thailand? Ask at that office if they will issue a 90 day O visa IN THAILAND currently which you can then use as a base for your first extension. 

It is possible (though that would be big news) that there will be a big crackdown on issuing 90 day visas based on beginning with retirement status everywhere in the world, including in Thailand. 

 

Like I've said that had been stopped in the US for many years already. If you can't get a single entry O visa in Penang, in Thailand, or anywhere then you would need to go to your home country and start with an O-A visa.

No, Penang is issuing 90 day O visas. I can get it there. The info about not being able to extend it based on retirement is my issue. Penang says no. You and others say yes. 

 

I live in BKK and have for 13 years on a Non OA visa and extensions. I'm not a newbie to mis and dis information given by Thai authorities. TIT. My wife is an American citizen and she has a Non O visa. If I proceed to get the 90 day O visa from Penang, will my wife have to give up her O visa and re-apply? She is my dependent. 

[nightbird]

2 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Here is an interesting take on the future Non-O visa...

 

Good news is if you have one you are unofficially grandfathered out of insurance requirements...

Bad new is they will stop issuing Non-O for retirement purposes...

 

 

It makes sense because what is really the difference between an OA and an O visa for retirement? If you can extend both, but the OA requires insurance, it makes no sense.

[sfokevin]

6 minutes ago, nightbird said:

It makes sense because what is really the difference between an OA and an O visa for retirement? If you can extend both, but the OA requires insurance, it makes no sense.

This allows them to save face... They aren’t throwing anyone out but have closed the door for future retirees without insurance... 

 

My guess is they will also tighten the extension rules to require 800k in the bank for all renewals
 

Edited November 11, 2019 by sfokevin

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, nightbird said:

No, Penang is issuing 90 day O visas. I can get it there. The info about not being able to extend it based on retirement is my issue. Penang says no. You and others say yes. 

 

I live in BKK and have for 13 years on a Non OA visa and extensions. I'm not a newbie to mis and dis information given by Thai authorities. TIT. My wife is an American citizen and she has a Non O visa. If I proceed to get the 90 day O visa from Penang, will my wife have to give up her O visa and re-apply? She is my dependent. 

That's a complicated situation with your wife included that way. Better ask Ubonjoe.

 

Now IF Penang has told you currently correct information then that would be very big news.

 

We have heard no such announcements about that as yet on this forum.

 

The news if true (a BIG IF) would be something like this:

Thai immigration will now be refusing first annual extension applications on all NEW O visas. 

 

That news would also obviously include:

 

Thai immigration is no longer doing change of status applications from 30 day stamps or tourist visas to 90 day O visas IN THAILAND as the first step before the first annual retirement extension.

 

But we've heard NO SUCH ANNOUNCEMENTS!

 

So it's way early to make any such grand conclusions. 

 

But such news IF TRUE wouldn't be inconsistent with the reading (from Integrity Legal youtube) that those on O visa based extensions are GRANDFATHERED and O-A visas and extensions are not. So the logic from that may indeed mean that there may no longer be any FIRST annual retirement EXTENSIONS starting from O (rather than O-A visas). 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Jingthing

[Andrew Dwyer]

18 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Here is an interesting take on the future Non-O visa...

 

Good news is if you have one you are unofficially grandfathered out of insurance requirements...

Bad new is they will stop issuing Non-O for retirement purposes...

 

 

Lot o guessing in that video , a lot of “ I think this “ and “ I think that “.

 

IMHO the guy is doing a publicity video for his company and hasn’t really understood all that is happening.

Doesn’t he at one point talk about converting from a Business visa to a non O and constantly talks about retirement visas ??

[nightbird]

26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's a complicated situation with your wife included that way. Better ask Ubonjoe.

 

Now IF Penang has told you currently correct information then that would be very big news.

 

We have heard no such announcements about that as yet on this forum.

 

The news if true (a BIG IF) would be something like this:

Thai immigration will now be refusing first annual extension applications on all NEW O visas. 

 

That news would also obviously include:

 

Thai immigration is no longer doing change of status applications from 30 day stamps or tourist visas to 90 day O visas IN THAILAND as the first step before the first annual retirement extension.

 

But we've heard NO SUCH ANNOUNCEMENTS!

 

So it's way early to make any such grand conclusions. 

 

But such news IF TRUE wouldn't be inconsistent with the reading (from Integrity Legal youtube) that those on O visa based extensions are GRANDFATHERED and O-A visas and extensions are not. So the logic from that may indeed mean that there may no longer be any FIRST annual retirement EXTENSIONS starting from O (rather than O-A visas). 

If I decide to test all this and go to Penang for a 90 day O visa, it means giving up my current OA and my wife's Non O. If we both apply for Non O 90 days, will she need to show financials even though she is my dependent and follows me for retirement?

 

And, if she already has a Non O, extended, if I went alone to Penang and changed status to Non O, returned to BKK, what happens to her status since she is a dependent? Essentially, if she goes with me to Penang and applies for a Non O, she is giving up her current non O for a new Non O. It's a bit crazy, no?

[nightbird]

On 11/6/2019 at 6:01 PM, ubonjoe said:

They do vary in their requirement to apply for a single entry non-o visa based upon being 50 or over for retirement.

For example Vientiane want to see 800k baht in the bank, a medical certificate and a police clearance certificate. Savannakhet wants the 800k baht in the bank and proof of retirement.

Your wife will need to get a new non-o visa since her extension will end when yours does as soon as you leave the country to cancel it.

 

Not sure why she did not apply for an extension based upon being her husbands wife. Perhaps she did not have a non-o visa entry so she used the retirement option to apply for a non immigrant visa at immigration.

She could change to that type of extension instead of retirement.

Joe, please try to clarify something for me. To refresh your memory, I hold an OA and my wife hold an O visa. Both extended yearly for many years. If we both leave BKK for Penang and acquire Non O 90 day visas, will my wife have to meet the financial requirements on the application or will she be factored in as my dependent and my financials will be enough for both of us? It seems crazy that she will need to re-apply for the same visa she already holds. Is there any workaround?

[offset]

If on a O-A visa is it possible to leave the country and just come back on a 30 day entry and then change to a NON O at the local immigration then to a normal extension

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, nightbird said:

If we both leave BKK for Penang and acquire Non O 90 day visas, will my wife have to meet the financial requirements on the application or will she be factored in as my dependent and my financials will be enough for both of us? It seems crazy that she will need to re-apply for the same visa she already holds. Is there any workaround?

When you apply for the non-o visa based upon being 50 or for retirement you wife would apply for a non-o visa for being a member your family. She would not need financial proof.

She is does not have valid visa now. She is on an extension that is based upon your extension of stay. When your extension ends her's does as well since it is tied to yours.

[Langsuan Man]

16 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

When you apply for the non-o visa based upon being 50 or for retirement you wife would apply for a non-o visa for being a member your family. She would not need financial proof.

She is does not have valid visa now. She is on an extension that is based upon your extension of stay. When your extension ends her's does as well since it is tied to yours.

I certainly would not argue anything with Ubonjoe, yet it appears that they will not even let you apply for an "O" Visa in the US unless for family visit or volunteering:  Here from Thai Embassy Washington. and New York Consulate:

 

So my confusion is where is this "over 50" for an "O" option available ?

Edited November 12, 2019 by Langsuan Man

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

I certainly would not argue anything with Ubonjoe, yet it appears that they will not even let you apply for an "O" Visa in the US unless for family visit or volunteering: 

You need to read the post I quoted. The discussion was about applying in Penang for a non-o visa.

There are still embassies and consulates that will still issue a single for multiple entry non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement.

I am well aware you cannot get one anywhere in the US.

[BertM]

16 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

I certainly would not argue anything with Ubonjoe, yet it appears that they will not even let you apply for an "O" Visa in the US unless for family visit or volunteering:  Here from Thai Embassy Washington. and New York Consulate:

 

So my confusion is where is this "over 50" for an "O" option available ?

You can get a Non-O visa in Thailand at Immigration, then get 1-yr extensions based on retirement, marriage, family, etc. I came in with visa exempt stamp, went to IM within 15 days, applied for Non-O based on retirement and have been getting extensions ever since. The embassies don't tell you that, do they...

[Langsuan Man]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

You need to read the post I quoted. The discussion was about applying in Penang for a non-o visa.

There are still embassies and consulates that will still issue a single for multiple entry non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement.

I am well aware you cannot get one anywhere in the US.

Thank you, I was not aware that an O for retirement could not be obtained in the US until this subject came up.  Sure am glad the Thai Immigration regulations are based upon where you live and not what the law or police order is current  

[vivananahuahin]

i am 73 now under visa OA since 2013 with extension my question is,if i go to Vientiane without re rentry permit go and back the same day i will kill my OA  and take a visa exempt stamp when back,i read that i can get a NON O for 90 days and after 60 days extend to one year marriage visa.I have a good insurance from my country but not accepted by immigration,i have al the prove 2x hospital bills (500.000 baht) all pay by my insurance,no way they don't want take it.

[nightbird]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You need to read the post I quoted. The discussion was about applying in Penang for a non-o visa.

There are still embassies and consulates that will still issue a single for multiple entry non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement.

I am well aware you cannot get one anywhere in the US.

Joe, BertM says that he came into Thailand with a visa exempt stamp. Then went to Immigration and got a Non O and the subsequent extension of stay. For someone like myself, who has an OA, and is in Thailand, I would need to leave Thailand without a re-entry and then come back in with Non O, etc. I couldn't just go to Imm and ask them for a Non O. Am I correct?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, nightbird said:

Then went to Immigration and got a Non O and the subsequent extension of stay. For someone like myself, who has an OA, and is in Thailand, I would need to leave Thailand without a re-entry and then come back in with Non O, etc. I couldn't just go to Imm and ask them for a Non O. Am I correct?

You would have to leave the country to get a visa exempt entry. Then apply for a non immigrant visa.

The reply to a post I quoted was due to his wife being on an extension based upon his that would end when his does and would need a new non-o visa to apply for hers. Immigration does not issue non immigrant visas for family members.

[AAArdvark]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

You would have to leave the country to get a visa exempt entry. Then apply for a non immigrant visa.

The reply to a post I quoted was due to his wife being on an extension based upon his that would end when his does and would need a new non-o visa to apply for hers. Immigration does not issue non immigrant visas for family members.

How does that work? Presumably, he would have an existing O-A or an extension of stay.  So wouldn't someone with either of those two be simply granted entry based on one of those?

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

How does that work? Presumably, he would have an existing O-A or an extension of stay.  So wouldn't someone with either of those two be simply granted entry based on one of those?

Only if the OA visa or a re-entry permit were still valid.

If you would read back my previous posts in the topic you would see I have stated a person would have leave without a re-entry  permit to void their extension unless they entered after their extension expired,

[jacko45k]

On 11/11/2019 at 1:07 PM, nightbird said:

I understand what you are saying. But Penang says it cannot be extended. That I must leave and return.

The Visa cannot be extended. The 90 day Permit To Stay can be extended.

If the Visa is a valid multiple, one can leave and return, and receive a brand new 90 day permit to Stay. 

[nightbird]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

The Visa cannot be extended. The 90 day Permit To Stay can be extended.

If the Visa is a valid multiple, one can leave and return, and receive a brand new 90 day permit to Stay. 

Yes, I understand.  Seems like the best solution is to come in on a visa exempt and go to Immigration and apply for Non O. Before 90 days, extend it for 1 year. Problem solved. The benefit of doing it here (applying for Non O) is one will have an easier time of making sure you have all the necessary documentation. If you are outside of Thailand at an Embassy or consulate, and you've forgotten something or they want to see something that was not mentioned, you are out of luck. 

[vivananahuahin]

14 minutes ago, nightbird said:

Yes, I understand.  Seems like the best solution is to come in on a visa exempt and go to Immigration and apply for Non O. Before 90 days, extend it for 1 year. Problem solved. The benefit of doing it here (applying for Non O) is one will have an easier time of making sure you have all the necessary documentation. If you are outside of Thailand at an Embassy or consulate, and you've forgotten something or they want to see something that was not mentioned, you are out of luck. 

If possible can you tell us your experience with this situation,i will do also in march when my extension will expire, because i think you will need first go and receive a stamp when you go inside Myanmar and back again a stamp and then go back to  the thai immigration office and fill a new TM6 and enter in Thailand with 30 days stamp.

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, nightbird said:

Yes, I understand.  Seems like the best solution is to come in on a visa exempt and go to Immigration and apply for Non O. Before 90 days, extend it for 1 year. Problem solved. The benefit of doing it here (applying for Non O) is one will have an easier time of making sure you have all the necessary documentation. If you are outside of Thailand at an Embassy or consulate, and you've forgotten something or they want to see something that was not mentioned, you are out of luck. 

In the past, obtaining a Non-Imm-O before travel was such an easy thing it was always recommended as the simplest route to the Retirement Ext. There was also a short spell of time when the in-country conversion could only be done by Bangkok, and for example, Pattaya/Chonburi was not able to do them. Now they can, and Non-Imm_O procurement outside Thailand has become more difficult. Situation reversed. 

[AAArdvark]

How can an O-A (not extension and in the first year) be invalidated?  Would getting a 30 day stamp upon reentry make the O-A invalid?

Am I wrong in thinking that someone on an O-A and still in the first year would not be able to apply for an O based on retirement?

[yamadajr]

I am currently looking at helping my elderly mother (who has been declined for a Thai insurance policy due to pre-existing conditions) convert her Non-OA visa to a Non-O visa by having her leave the country without a re-entry permit (after her Non-OA visa expires on 25 Nov 2019 - she is currently permitted to stay until Oct 2020) and returning on a Visa Exempt then go through the Non-O conversion process at Chaeng Wattana.

 

She has been living in Thailand continuously for one year under the Non-OA visa (with only a couple regional vacation trips).  Her last Visa Exempt entry would have been almost 10 years.  As such, do you foresee any problems with her getting the Visa Exempt stamp upon entering at DMK airport in this situation?  I presume she should be ok, but wanted your thoughts?  Many thanks.

Edited November 19, 2019 by yamadajr

[ubonjoe]

29 minutes ago, yamadajr said:

I am currently looking at helping my elderly mother (who has been declined for a Thai insurance policy due to pre-existing conditions) convert her Non-OA visa to a Non-O visa by having her leave the country without a re-entry permit (after her Non-OA visa expires on 25 Nov 2019 - she is currently permitted to stay until Oct 2020) and returning on a Visa Exempt then go through the Non-O conversion process at Chaeng Wattana.

There is no need for her to do anything until October 2020. She can still get a reentry permit and enter the country until then if she wants to travel.

[yamadajr]

22 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no need for her to do anything until October 2020. She can still get a reentry permit and enter the country until then if she wants to travel.

Thanks Ubonjoe.  This is exacty why I chose to have her leave and re-enter Thailand on her OA visa just before the 31 Oct 2019 effective date (in case there was any confusion on the implementation of the new regulations), so she could have another year to figure things out. But so far, the outcome is not going the way I expected.

 

While I do understand this is still "playing out" with respect to insurance being required for pre-31 Oct 2019 OA visa holders at the time of extension, I am a bit worried they may stop accepting in-country Non-O conversions based on retirement. Do you think this is a possibilty?  And it would be difficult for my mother to do a trip to Savannakhet for a Non-O assuming they keep allowing as well.  

 

Regarding the visa exempt entry at DMK, do you think she should be ok in this situation if we choose this route?  Thank you.

[beddhist]

Every man and his dog seem to be aiming for non-O visas now to avoid the insurance requirement. This cannot last and the loophole will soon be closed.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, yamadajr said:

I am a bit worried they may stop accepting in-country Non-O conversions based on retirement. Do you think this is a possibilty? 

No I do not think they will stop them.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, beddhist said:

Every man and his dog seem to be aiming for non-O visas now to avoid the insurance requirement. This cannot last and the loophole will soon be closed.

Nonsense

How is that loophole?

[jacko45k]

13 minutes ago, beddhist said:

Every man and his dog seem to be aiming for non-O visas now to avoid the insurance requirement. This cannot last and the loophole will soon be closed.

I am not seeing it as a loophole.... 

They require people coming to live in Thailand for a year (maybe 2), who did not have to show any assets or money transfers to Thailand to have insurance. That is achieved.  Not yet convinced the discrepancy of a retirement extension based on an O-A, and a O was desired, yet! Or perhaps a deliberate sweep up of the O-A Exts!

Edited November 19, 2019 by jacko45k