Converting Non OA to Non O Visa

[mhortig]

How do you get a police clearance?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 11/6/2019 at 7:54 PM, PETERHOF said:

I plan to apply to a "O Visa" for people over 50 yo at Penang Consulate (I live in Koh Samui). I am 58 years old, not yet retired so no have any pension and no have any income too in my country...So I can't get a retirement/income letter from my embassy. Is there another way to solve this issue ?

 

I think one possible answer to the question you raised was in this related answer that Ubon Joe provided:

 

Quote

Or a statement done at your embassy stating you are retired.

 

I believe what he was referring to, was the process of you going to your home country's embassy in BKK, writing up an affidavit stating/declaring that you are retired (either on your own form or on one provided by your embassy), and then having the Embassy officer sign and stamp your affidavit. 

 

That won't satisfy an Embassy/Consulate that's insisting on a certain level of financial proof. But it should satisfy them if they're only looking for proof/evidence that you're in fact retired.

 

PS - "retired" per se doesn't automatically mean you're receiving a pension. In the more general sense, it can just mean you're no longer working, which in your case, apparently would be true. 

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 11/6/2019 at 4:43 PM, nightbird said:

My 13th year holding a Non OA with extension of stay coming up in January.

 

This is one of those cases where you do NOT want to have a valid re-entry permit when you leave the country...

 

As I understand it, a valid re-entry permit would prevent you from being able to obtain a new visa, because the re-entry permit would keep alive your current extension of stay for a future return to Thailand.

 

But, if you're on extension of stay and leave the country without a re-entry permit, then your permission to stay ends at that point, and then you become a free man to apply for whatever kind of new visa you may qualify for.

 

[SANSAI]

I have an extension of stay based on retirement valid to May 21, 2020 originating from an O-A visa 10 years ago, along with a current Multiple exit re-entry permit to the same date. I am considering obtaining a Thai elite visa and before it can be issued my Non Imm. Visa must be cancelled.

1. Is it possible to cancel the Multiple Exit-reentry permit at the Imm. Office in Chiang Mai so that when I depart my current extension of stay will be cancelled.

2. Is it possible to cancel the extension of stay (along with the RE permit) and apply for a 7 day extension to leave the country or have the Thai Elite sticker placed in the passport at Chaeng Wattana.

Has anyone had experience with this, as I am getting conflicting stories from Visa agents and Imm.

 

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, mhortig said:

How do you get a police clearance?

For a Thai police clearance you apply for it at police clearance center. See: http://www.pcscenter.sb.police.go.th/eng/

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, SANSAI said:

1. Is it possible to cancel the Multiple Exit-reentry permit at the Imm. Office in Chiang Mai so that when I depart my current extension of stay will be cancelled.

2. Is it possible to cancel the extension of stay (along with the RE permit) and apply for a 7 day extension to leave the country or have the Thai Elite sticker placed in the passport at Chaeng Wattana.

1. No

2. No

The only way to cancel the extension is not to apply for a new extension and enter the country after the date it expires.

Or leave the country and apply for a new passport in another country. Then you could enter the country using it and get the Thai elite visa issued.

[tgeezer]

Is it now an accepted fact that if one’s original visa used to enter the country years ago and which should now be rendered irrelevant  by having been converted into a means of extending yearly is still relevant. If so then it should be challenged officially and the official answers be published in a form which even an Immigration officer can understand. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

This is one of those cases where you do NOT want to have a valid re-entry permit when you leave the country...

 

As I understand it, a valid re-entry permit would prevent you from being able to obtain a new visa, because the re-entry permit would keep alive your current extension of stay for a future return to Thailand.

 

But, if you're on extension of stay and leave the country without a re-entry permit, then your permission to stay ends at that point, and then you become a free man to apply for whatever kind of new visa you may qualify for.

 

This is the way I see it also John, I am exactly in this position ( on a retirement extension from an OA with no valid re-entry permit .

 

My intention is to travel to the uk without a re-entry permit ( on one of my routine visits) and obtain a SE non imm O visa ( based on 50+ )at a Thai consulate , return to Thailand and pursue the retirement extension on a Non Imm O visa route.

 

Could @ubonjoe confirm that this is possible please .

Edited November 9, 2019 by Andrew Dwyer

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Is it now an accepted fact that if one’s original visa used to enter the country years ago and which should now be rendered irrelevant  by having been converted into a means of extending yearly is still relevant. If so then it should be challenged officially and the official answers be published in a form which even an Immigration officer can understand. 

Yes. It is apparent now in the case of originally entering on an O-A Visa and receiving a Permit to Stay based upon it. An application for an Extension is requiring O-A terms. There have also been issues where someone, for example, obtains a Non-Imm-O based on 'retirement' then wanting to get a marriage extension, being told to change their original Non-Imm-O (read Permit to Stay) to a marriage basis. Some offices do not make an issue of this. 

Challenge Officially.... I don't see that going well. 

Edited November 9, 2019 by jacko45k

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

My intention is to travel to the uk without a re-entry permit ( on one of my routine visits) and obtain a SE non imm O visa ( based on 50+ )at a Thai consulate , return to Thailand and pursue the retirement extension on a Non Imm O visa route.

You extension will become invalid as soon as you leave the country.

Without a re-entry permit you do not have a valid permit to stay for them to see.

I see no reason for you to have a problem getting a visa.

[tgeezer]

Listen, this could effect me so I want it clarified, there are so many people who want everyone of us to be identified with them that there is a danger of it happening if this is not resolved. There is a huge financial gain to be made by many people if this provision can be forced on us all and campaigns are already underway to make this happen. 

 

I have been following the insurance requirement since it started and it is clear to me that the intention was to require people who do not regularly prove that they have funds in the country to insure against The expense of relatively minor medical problems.  

Once it is proved that the funds required or the income necessary to borrow those funds are in the country, insurance is not necessary.  Even the rules were changed for those with funds, so that 400,000THB remained untouched.  I am not surprised that some people who have to take it up the a** want to see this rule change as just another embuggerance but it makes sense in the context I have given. 

That some officers have latched onto the only thing they can understand O-A visa and are like a dog with a bone with it is incredible to me. 

 

Interestingly the importance of distinguishing between a visa and an extension has now become relevant, something which I knew the Thai language was not doing! 

[SANSAI]

Can an extension of stay based on retirement originating from a Non Imm O-A visa be changed to extension of stay based on being married to a Thai, and if so can this be done anytime prior to the Retirement extension expiring.

[vivananahuahin]

1 hour ago, SANSAI said:

Can an extension of stay based on retirement originating from a Non Imm O-A visa be changed to extension of stay based on being married to a Thai, and if so can this be done anytime prior to the Retirement extension expiring.

I think you need wit until the expiring of your extension but anyway if you change to marriage visa your basis visa will stay OA and we will see in the futur wat the lawmaker will do with this situation concerning the health insurance.

[Mapguy]

On 11/9/2019 at 8:11 AM, ubonjoe said:

1. No

2. No

The only way to cancel the extension is not to apply for a new extension and enter the country after the date it expires.

Or leave the country and apply for a new passport in another country. Then you could enter the country using it and get the Thai elite visa issued.

It is generally understood that a 60-Day tourist visa can be converted in Thailand to a NON-O Visa -- as commonly discussed --"for retirement."  Basically, that process involves a “fresh entry” into Thailand on a tourist visa and meeting the attached conditions provided (in this message) by Chiang Mai Immigration.

 

Question:  Where is this written in a valid police order or other document noting criteria and required documentation?  An information sheet from CM Immigration is all well and good, but where is the actual authority?

 

A parallel example of authoritative procedure, criteria and documents required would be Police order 548/2562 recently issued to cover the requirement for health insurance for an NI-OA visa.

NON-O Conversion Requirements Chiang Mai 11:19.pdf

[nightbird]

On 11/6/2019 at 6:43 PM, ubonjoe said:

It is not really be a conversion. It is simply applying for a non-o visa after you cancel your extension by leaving the country without a re-entry permit.

 

There seems to be some confusion here of thinking that a Non 0-A has the same priviliges that a Non O visa for retirement has. I hold an O-A. I was planning on leaving the country and return on a Non O visa. The main reason was to avoid the mandatory insurance. After having contacted the Penang Thai Consulate to make sure that I understood all the implications and had all the necessary paperwork prepared, the bomb dropped for me. A Non O visa does not entitle you to remain in Thailand continuously on an extension of stay as it does on a Non O-A. You must leave every 90 days. Only an O-A allows you to remain in country for 1 year. There was no work-around such as extension of stay as in the O-A .This is coming directly from the Penang Office. 

 

Now, a poster on Thaivisa, MJKT2014, said that he has a Non O and has been continuously extending his stay for over 10 years. According to Immigration, that is not possible. It is possible to extend the stay if the O visa is changed to an OA, which may have been the case with this poster but he forgot to mention it? Penang says impossible to extend for 1 year on Non O without visa run.

 

Anyone care to comment?

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, nightbird said:

There seems to be some confusion here of thinking that a Non 0-A has the same priviliges that a Non O visa for retirement has. I hold an O-A. I was planning on leaving the country and return on a Non O visa. The main reason was to avoid the mandatory insurance. After having contacted the Penang Thai Consulate to make sure that I understood all the implications and had all the necessary paperwork prepared, the bomb dropped for me. A Non O visa does not entitle you to remain in Thailand continuously on an extension of stay as it does on a Non O-A. You must leave every 90 days. Only an O-A allows you to remain in country for 1 year. There was no work-around such as extension of stay as in the O-A .This is coming directly from the Penang Office. 

 

Now, a poster on Thaivisa, MJKT2014, said that he has a Non O and has been continuously extending his stay for over 10 years. According to Immigration, that is not possible. It is possible to extend the stay if the O visa is changed to an OA, which may have been the case with this poster but he forgot to mention it? Penang says impossible to extend for 1 year on Non O without visa run.

 

Anyone care to comment?

You're incorrect.

Both O and O-A can and are extended continuously indefinitely. I've extended my original O visa for OVER ten years and now doing that on a new passport. There has been NO DIFFERENCE. But now it appears a new difference has emerged. Those that started on O-A based visas are facing INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS upon extension, and those that started on O visas are not.

 

I got my original single entry O visa in the U.S. but they haven't been granting those based on planning retirement in Thailand for many years already. I happened to live near a consulate that didn't offer O-A. If I had been near the embassy or a consulate that did offer O-A I'm sure I probably would have started with an O-A. Of course happy now that I didn't!

Edited November 11, 2019 by Jingthing

[nightbird]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're incorrect.

Both O and O-A can and are extended continuously indefinitely. I've extended my original O visa for OVER ten years and now doing that on a new passport. There has been NO DIFFERENCE. But now it appears a new difference has emerged. Those that started on O-A based visas are facing INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS upon extension, and those that started on O visas are not.

 

I got my original single entry O visa in the U.S. but they haven't been granting those based on planning retirement in Thailand for many years already. I happened to live near a consulate that didn't offer O-A. If I had been near the embassy or a consulate that did offer O-A I'm sure I probably would have started with an O-A. Of course happy now that I didn't!

You mean Penang Thai Consulate is incorrect as that is where this info is coming from. I would like to believe you, but since what you say contradicts what they just told me, I am reluctant to give up my O-A for a Non O and then be required to leave every 90 days. The Consulate said no way to extend stay for 1 year continuously. Perhaps this is a new rule applied after you obtained your Non O in the States many years ago. 

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, nightbird said:

You mean Penang Thai Consulate is incorrect as that is where this info is coming from. I would like to believe you, but since what you say contradicts what they just told me, I am reluctant to give up my O-A for a Non O and then be required to leave every 90 days. The Consulate said no way to extend stay for 1 year continuously. Perhaps this is a new rule applied after you obtained your Non O in the States many years ago. 

Oh geez man! You're totally confused. If your goal is to avoid the insurance requirement by all means get a SINGLE ENTRY 90 day O visa in Penang (or anywhere else you can get it) ASAP. Then do your first annual extension based on retirement in Thailand. No visa runs! Under the current rules you can then of course continue to do annual extensions for the rest of your life.

 

That said, there is no guarantee that the insurance requirement won't be migrated onto those on O based extensions as well. But for now -- not. 

[nightbird]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Oh geez man! You're totally confused. If your goal is to avoid the insurance requirement by all means get a SINGLE ENTRY 90 day O visa in Penang (or anywhere else you can get it) ASAP. Then do your first annual extension based on retirement in Thailand. No visa runs! Under the current rules you can then of course continue to do annual extensions for the rest of your life.

 

That said, there is no guarantee that the insurance requirement won't be migrated onto those on O based extensions as well. But for now -- not. 

Confused? I was just told by the consulate that it is not possible to extend the Non O based on retirement to continuously stay for 1 year. I would have to leave every 90 days. To me, this means that they may have changed the rules and you are a lucky guy and are grandfathered in. You want me to take your word over the Thai Consulate? I'm not saying that what you wrote is wrong for yourself. I know this is a typical Thai Catch-22 situation where no definitive answer exists, yet. 

 

I understand that the insurance may also become mandatory for Non O. That is not my concern at the moment. 

[LivinLOS]

39 minutes ago, nightbird said:

There seems to be some confusion here of thinking that a Non 0-A has the same priviliges that a Non O visa for retirement has. I hold an O-A. I was planning on leaving the country and return on a Non O visa. The main reason was to avoid the mandatory insurance. After having contacted the Penang Thai Consulate to make sure that I understood all the implications and had all the necessary paperwork prepared, the bomb dropped for me. A Non O visa does not entitle you to remain in Thailand continuously on an extension of stay as it does on a Non O-A. You must leave every 90 days. Only an O-A allows you to remain in country for 1 year. There was no work-around such as extension of stay as in the O-A .This is coming directly from the Penang Office. 

 

Now, a poster on Thaivisa, MJKT2014, said that he has a Non O and has been continuously extending his stay for over 10 years. According to Immigration, that is not possible. It is possible to extend the stay if the O visa is changed to an OA, which may have been the case with this poster but he forgot to mention it? Penang says impossible to extend for 1 year on Non O without visa run.

 

Anyone care to comment?

Your confused.. 

 

Your non imm O generates a permission of stay of 90 days.. This can then be extended, for 12 months, when the conditions to do so are met (the same conditions as the OA minus insurance). 

[LivinLOS]

4 minutes ago, nightbird said:

Confused? I was just told by the consulate that it is not possible to extend the Non O based on retirement to continuously stay for 1 year. I would have to leave every 90 days. To me, this means that they may have changed the rules and you are a lucky guy and are grandfathered in. You want me to take your word over the Thai Consulate? I'm not saying that what you wrote is wrong for yourself. I know this is a typical Thai Catch-22 situation where no definitive answer exists, yet. 

 

1000s of people extended non imm Os annually.. 

 

Penang either did a poor job of explaining the 90 day entry rules, or you miss understood what they said. 

[Jingthing]

Just now, nightbird said:

Confused? I was just told by the consulate that it is not possible to extend the Non O based on retirement to continuously stay for 1 year. I would have to leave every 90 days. To me, this means that they may have changed the rules and you are a lucky guy and are grandfathered in. You want me to take your word over the Thai Consulate? I'm not saying that what you wrote is wrong for yourself. I know this is a typical Thai Catch-22 situation where no definitive answer exists, yet. 

 

I understand that the insurance may also become mandatory for Non O. That is not my concern at the moment. 

I give up. I am talking about getting a 90 day O visa there and then start your retirement extensions in Thailand. You're fixated on one year multientry O visas which do require visa runs.

Seek advise from someone else now as it's clear you don't want to listen to me. 

[nightbird]

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

Your confused.. 

 

Your non imm O generates a permission of stay of 90 days.. This can then be extended, for 12 months, when the conditions to do so are met (the same conditions as the OA minus insurance). 

I understand what you are saying. But Penang says it cannot be extended. That I must leave and return.

[vivananahuahin]

40 minutes ago, nightbird said:

There seems to be some confusion here of thinking that a Non 0-A has the same priviliges that a Non O visa for retirement has. I hold an O-A. I was planning on leaving the country and return on a Non O visa. The main reason was to avoid the mandatory insurance. After having contacted the Penang Thai Consulate to make sure that I understood all the implications and had all the necessary paperwork prepared, the bomb dropped for me. A Non O visa does not entitle you to remain in Thailand continuously on an extension of stay as it does on a Non O-A. You must leave every 90 days. Only an O-A allows you to remain in country for 1 year. There was no work-around such as extension of stay as in the O-A .This is coming directly from the Penang Office. 

 

Now, a poster on Thaivisa, MJKT2014, said that he has a Non O and has been continuously extending his stay for over 10 years. According to Immigration, that is not possible. It is possible to extend the stay if the O visa is changed to an OA, which may have been the case with this poster but he forgot to mention it? Penang says impossible to extend for 1 year on Non O without visa run.

 

Anyone care to comment?

If you are married officially in Thailand with a Thai lady you can go very easy to a NO O marriage visa(90 days) in first and then extend after the first 60 days to extend for one year and this without border run.

[nightbird]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I give up. I am talking about getting a 90 day O visa there and then start your retirement extensions in Thailand. You're fixated on one year multientry O visas which do require visa runs.

Seek advise from someone else now as it's clear you don't want to listen to me. 

I understand you perfectly, but Penang said I could not extend in Thailand. I will talk to them again and make sure they are talking about a 90 day O visa and not a 1 year multi-etry O visa. 

[nightbird]

2 minutes ago, vivananahuahin said:

If you are married officially in Thailand with a Thai lady you can go very easy to a NO O marriage visa(90 days) in first and then extend after the first 60 days to extend for one year and this without border run.

Doesn't apply to me.

[LivinLOS]

7 minutes ago, nightbird said:

I understand what you are saying. But Penang says it cannot be extended. That I must leave and return.

You didnt understand them correctly, or they gave bad information. Simple as that. 

[beddhist]

Consider that consulates do not process extensions, IOs do. To get the info from the horse's mouth you need to speak with the IO where you live (or intend to live).

Edited November 11, 2019 by beddhist

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, nightbird said:

I understand you perfectly, but Penang said I could not extend in Thailand. I will talk to them again and make sure they are talking about a 90 day O visa and not a 1 year multi-etry O visa. 

It could be that Penang is refusing to issue single entry O visas based on starting on retirement extensions now. In that case you will want to seek that elsewhere if you want to begin in Thailand on a 90 day O visa as a base for continuous annual extensions. Where will you be living in Thailand? Ask at that office if they will issue a 90 day O visa IN THAILAND currently which you can then use as a base for your first extension. 

It is possible (though that would be big news) that there will be a big crackdown on issuing 90 day visas based on beginning with retirement status everywhere in the world, including in Thailand. 

 

Like I've said that had been stopped in the US for many years already. If you can't get a single entry O visa in Penang, in Thailand, or anywhere then you would need to go to your home country and start with an O-A visa.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Jingthing

[sfokevin]

Here is an interesting take on the future Non-O visa...

 

Good news is if you have one you are unofficially grandfathered out of insurance requirements...

Bad new is they will stop issuing Non-O for retirement purposes...

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by sfokevin