Thailand road carnage: A big problem that is only getting worse

[Bruntoid]

Take motorbikes out of it and everyone can stop wetting themselves as the figures are no worse than most other countries, and as most westerners drive bikes with no helmets they’re only inviting death. (Then come onto forums to complain about the high death tolls in Thailand) 

 

Personally over many years I’ve never had a problem on the roads here apart from people driving like snails everywhere, and most main road surfaces are far better than the U.K.s cratered network of minefields. 
 

However I would support a nationwide crushing scheme for all those caught without a license. (For the vehicles not the people ????)
 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Bruntoid

[Bruntoid]

42 minutes ago, dcnx said:

They almost all wear helmets in Vietnam and don’t drive too fast unless it’s on open roads. Having spent quite some time there I don’t see many accidents where in Thailand I see 2 - 3 per week.

Just saw a nasty one last night right in front of me where a big bike a-hole was zipping around everyone and smashed into a slower bike with a family on it. None of them had helmets and it was a bloody mess. I didn’t stick around to see how it turned out (it’s just another accident) but by the looks of the mess I wouldn’t be surprised if a one or two of them didn’t survive. But this is cheap life in Thailand and no one cares. And if they don’t care, I’m certainly not going to care for them. Let them die by the 1000s if that’s what they choose.

You see 2-3 accidents PER WEEK ???

 

Stop making it up 

[No1]

Every freedom has its price and each society has to determine for themselves which price they are willing to pay for their freedom. In western countries we are making the same calculations with a different outcome

[No1]

On 11/11/2019 at 12:37 PM, zhounan said:

Alcohol and drugs. These are the reasons.

Lack of skills and education, the road conditions, lack of law enforcement to name another few.
 

21 hours ago, Peterphuket said:

For example, in Europe, when they stop you at an checkpoint, they always ask for a driverlicense, at least.

Here they only ask "where are you going?"

Is that's the most important thing?

Here they always ask me for a drivers license actually. But I know that those who have none, are allowed drive away instead of being told to not continue. The fine usually never reaches the offender or the payment is not enforced and repeated offenses do not lead to a prison sentence. 
 

3 hours ago, LetsCleanUpTHAILAND said:

Let's Clean Up This Carnage. Here's my plan! 

1. all written tests for getting a driving test must be completed at Department of Transportation, NOT at private driving schools where they give you the answers. 

2. education for road safety is taught via youtube video at all mattyom schools and students are tested on it. 

3. traffic police must make "ticket quotas" every week. If they don't, they are suspended or employment terminated on bases of "job performance neglect". 

4. "driving is a full time job" campaign should utilize social media and TV and not stop until numbers drop to reasonable numbers. 

 

Any Questions? 

re 1) Many people do not even bother obtaining a license as they are not getting prosecuted. If driving without out a license would be a criminal offense with jail sentences involved, those drivers would reconsider their attitude.
re 2) good idea
re 3) They have quotas already, if it is correct what my police-neighbor told me
re 4) There are already quite a few campaigns, drastic and very explicit road-signs but it all doesn´t help if the laws are not enforced.

[kiwikeith]

On 11/11/2019 at 3:51 PM, ezzra said:

As long as the government is willing to contain the numbers and 'live with it' and hoping that will not get worse, nothing concrete will be done other than lip service from bobbing heads to show that the deserve their payday at the government's halls of doing nothing...

log books never happened, traffic police on the road is virtually none.

Speed cameras are not in place.

The speed limit is to high.

Children ride bikes to school, adults pick up multiple kids from school on one bike, and wear no helmets, they then drive as though they are bulletproof.

They scare the hell out of me when I drive, they cut in front of vehicles all the time.

Poverty dictates that bikes are the cheapest form of transport, families have to use them to get kids to school

The stupid me first mentality and the amount of modified boy racer cars and bikes on the road is a joke.

The driving mentality is abysmal.

 

So where do we start from the above?

[dcnx]

1 hour ago, Bruntoid said:

You see 2-3 accidents PER WEEK ???

 

Stop making it up 

Per week. I live in Chiang Mai. Just saw another this afternoon coming into the city. There are a few “kill zones” in the city that are notorious for accidents, usually fatal ones, and I unfortunately have to drive past a few of them (3 to be exact) every day going to and coming from the city. 

[dcnx]

1 hour ago, No1 said:

Every freedom has its price and each society has to determine for themselves which price they are willing to pay for their freedom. In western countries we are making the same calculations with a different outcome

Freedom has nothing to do with it. It’s about education, superstition, alcohol, and believing their life is left to fate. 

 

Bangkok Post ran a story where of the people they polled 30% of them drove their vehicle based on their belief in fate. That’s 3 out of 10 idiots on the road running lights and driving like maniacs because they believe when it’s their time to go, it’s their time. And this is in Bangkok where you’ll find more educated people. It’s probably 6 out of 10 in other cities, or worse.

[Goethe]

Hi"My village had a campaign that lasted a couple of weeks about wearing helmets, that very quickly evaporated, now myself included wear no helmet around the streets of the village, but I know if they keep up the pressure on fines on  not wearing of helmets this would change, persistence and application combined with a true dedication to reducing the road deaths."

 

In Sri Lanka EVERYBODY on a motorcycle wears a helmet. Why? Because it's an on-the-spot fine of approx 200 baht for non-compliance. Of course, this requires police co-operation....

 

[No1]

48 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Freedom has nothing to do with it. It’s about education, superstition, alcohol, and believing their life is left to fate. 

 

Bangkok Post ran a story where of the people they polled 30% of them drove their vehicle based on their belief in fate. That’s 3 out of 10 idiots on the road running lights and driving like maniacs because they believe when it’s their time to go, it’s their time. And this is in Bangkok where you’ll find more educated people. It’s probably 6 out of 10 in other cities, or worse.

Freedom to be ignorant, to be superstitious and to drive like an idiot without being subject to corrections is a freedom, too, of course. Not that I would agree with that but in western societies we also give our citizens freedoms which are lethal to many of us.

[No1]

10 minutes ago, Goethe said:

In Sri Lanka EVERYBODY on a motorcycle wears a helmet. Why? Because it's an on-the-spot fine of approx 200 baht for non-compliance. Of course, this requires police co-operation....

 

@GoetheNo law can protect anyone if it is not enforced. And that is the biggest issue: no police co-operation. I must admit though, that in the past five years a few things have improved at least in Chiang Mai: in the morning hours police checkpoints are everywhere and so over 95% of the motorcyclists wear a helmet. The rate drops down to an estimated 10-20% once the checkpoints are gone.

[Artisi]

4 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Take motorbikes out of it and everyone can stop wetting themselves as the figures are no worse than most other countries, and as most westerners drive bikes with no helmets they’re only inviting death. (Then come onto forums to complain about the high death tolls in Thailand) 

 

Personally over many years I’ve never had a problem on the roads here apart from people driving like snails everywhere, and most main road surfaces are far better than the U.K.s cratered network of minefields. 
 

However I would support a nationwide crushing scheme for all those caught without a license. (For the vehicles not the people ????)
 

 

Why not include a few deserving people as well?

[finnomick1]

9 hours ago, neeray said:

I could just imagine the difficulty that Thais would have catching onto the concept of "roundabouts".

Roundabouts are becoming more common in my home country of Canada but I must admit, I'm generally quite uneasy going through them. I much prefer a 4-way stop (and we do stop!).

 

Okay. I've got my flack jacket on and I'm ready to be told I need to learn how to drive (despite my 55 years of experience and millions of miles of pretty much accident-free driving).

You go around roundabouts, not through them. Maybe this is where you are going wrong.

[fusion58]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:39 AM, webfact said:

Dr Sakchai told Naew Na that the figures showed that problems on the nation's roads were a big problem for society and were just getting worse. He urged campaigns aimed at encouraging road safety to continue.

 

Doesn't the good doctor understand such campaigns are like pissing in the wind insofar as an acknowledgement that his/her driving skills are less than exemplary constitutes a loss of face for the average Thai?

 

 

 

[dcnx]

8 hours ago, No1 said:

@GoetheNo law can protect anyone if it is not enforced. And that is the biggest issue: no police co-operation. I must admit though, that in the past five years a few things have improved at least in Chiang Mai: in the morning hours police checkpoints are everywhere and so over 95% of the motorcyclists wear a helmet. The rate drops down to an estimated 10-20% once the checkpoints are gone.

That doesn’t really help anyone though (other than the police). Chiang Mai still always has some of the highest accident and death numbers because most of the drunk driving happens at night, as does more speeding when the roads are not so congested. It’s difficult to speed when there’s heavy traffic. 
 

Canal road would be the exception. That’s where I usually see day time crashes. 

[mikebell]

20 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Can we see the source of your '50/day' stat mike?

'Last year, up to 22,000 people, or an average of 50 to 60 people a day, died in car crashes, said Dr Thaejing.' 

'Thailand now tops the road death list on the World Atlas website.'

Newspaper published in Thailand.

[mikebell]

20 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Can we see the source of your '50/day' stat mike?

'

Many organisations and activists put the toll at 24,000 to 26,000 per year.

 

Source: Naew Na

[biplanebluey]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:53 AM, 4MyEgo said:

This stats look awfully low as I have always read it was around 20,000 plus dead annually.

Yes I had a bit of a laugh over that one myself------ an average of 3500 a year,are they kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[natway09]

The carnage will just continue until the Government gives a direct mandate to the police to work 

on it with proper funding to supply mufti cars & bikes & & give them a will to help.

The laws in place can only be upheld if the Police are backed by the Government as well

Will the Police really work with an Army Government directive ? I think not.

They will do as little as possible.

Why the Insurance Council does not put more pressure on the Government is beyond me.

It must be costing them a fortune

[dcnx]

12 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

Also look at the many tourists they drive without helmet.

True, it’s dangerous and stupid but it’s not foreigners who are causing the road carnage statistics. 
 

Most of the foreigner fatal accidents are from big bikes and speed or they get hit by a Thai driving a speeding car or truck.

 

Loads of road rash though. You can easily spot them with clean bandages on their legs and arms.

 

And yes, some areas of the US do need police and heavy enforcement. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by dcnx

[transam]

16 minutes ago, dcnx said:

True, it’s dangerous and stupid but it’s not foreigners who are causing the road carnage statistics. 
 

Most of the foreigner fatal accidents are from big bikes and speed or they get hit by a Thai driving a speeding car or truck.

 

Loads of road rash though. You can easily spot them with clean bandages on their legs and arms.

 

 

Really............????

[Rhys]

No enforcement....if they did  more money for the fuzz..money first...

[dcnx]

29 minutes ago, transam said:

Really............????

Yes. Really. There is data to tell you everything you need to know about road accidents and fatalities in Thailand. Educate yourself.

[hobz]

On 11/11/2019 at 4:31 PM, Bassosa said:

That's good to hear.

 

The cynic in me immediately suspects the fines are never paid. Hope that's not true.

Many of them are not paid i bet. But it seems clear to me that people are afraid of the system. 

[dcnx]

Regarding helmets...

 

Yes, it’s the smart thing to do. It greatly increases your chances of survival.

 

Now let’s look at the other things besides wearing a helmet that the majority of Thais do:

 

- Drive under the influence

- Drive with little or no sleep

- Drive at dangerously high speeds 

- Overtaking around blind corners 

- Overtaking where you shouldn’t overtake 

- Drive the wrong way on a road

- Drive with no lights on at night 

- Run red lights 

- Jump green lights

- No looking at intersections

- Pulling into traffic without looking 

- Dangerous U-turns 

- Putting entire family on a bike 

- Using phone while driving 

- Parking in the road 

- Passing on the right at a right turn intersection 

- Believing in fate while driving 

- Not getting a driver education

- Not having license

- Lack of vehicle maintenance  

 

The list goes on and on. All of these things greatly increase the chance of an accident and almost every Thai on wheels does them all, every day.

 

And then the biggest problem of all is ZERO law enforcement.

 

Its going to take generations before they even have a fighting chance of getting better. The government will fudge the reports long before they actually stop doing all of the ignorant things they do, and am wearing a helmet isn’t going to chance much.

[dcnx]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

Educate myself, why do you say that...?

 

I think most of your post I replied to was made up....????

That’s why I say educate yourself. The data is out there to back up everything I’ve said.

[bbi1]

With Thailand having sooooo many accidents every year, the insurance premiums must cost an arm and a leg. How much more are insurance premiums compared to Western countries?

[transam]

1 hour ago, dcnx said:

That’s why I say educate yourself. The data is out there to back up everything I’ve said.

Really.........????

[HaleySabai]

On 11/11/2019 at 10:11 AM, isaanistical said:

Pointless to get outside help to state the obvious. It's a UN problem – very large numbers of Thais on the roads are

 

UNlicensed

UNinsured

UNprotected (helmets, seatbelts)

UNaware (no proper scheme of tuition for driving – but see above: if you don't have a licence, you won't have had the tuition…)

and

UNable to stay off the booze just till they get home.

 

Farang advisers will not help in this situation because the laws already exist and are generally similar to international standards. The problem is with law enforcement, which is at the core of almost all non-political (as well as most political) problems in the soi-disant LoS. Farang advisers would be a waste of consultancy fees; Thai authorities would never accept their recommendations (the most obvious being to ban motorcycles…….).

Note also, as the OP says, that the real numbers are far greater than stated – DOAs, uninsureds, and many many others just don't even get recorded.

.....ban motorcycles?....huh?....I have some rubber bands you can have to shoot at the moon!

 

I've heard many "they should do" from Farangs..all of them are "right" but lack applicable reality to a point of absurdness.

Thais have to work it out by themselves. After all only they could possibly navigate a solution through the quagmire and rote of present day Thai-ness.

[gosmk10]

My wife recently got her licence she went to a school that had a road track laid out

during the month she was there she went round  the track at a tick over pace and after that month she did a test passed the test without ever driving on the road with all the motorbikes and grazy drivers around her

 

[lampangguy]

On 11/13/2019 at 2:42 PM, dcnx said:

Regarding helmets...

 

Yes, it’s the smart thing to do. It greatly increases your chances of survival.

 

Now let’s look at the other things besides wearing a helmet that the majority of Thais do:

 

- Drive under the influence

- Drive with little or no sleep

- Drive at dangerously high speeds 

- Overtaking around blind corners 

- Overtaking where you shouldn’t overtake 

- Drive the wrong way on a road

- Drive with no lights on at night 

- Run red lights 

- Jump green lights

- No looking at intersections

- Pulling into traffic without looking 

- Dangerous U-turns 

- Putting entire family on a bike 

- Using phone while driving 

- Parking in the road 

- Passing on the right at a right turn intersection 

- Believing in fate while driving 

- Not getting a driver education

- Not having license

- Lack of vehicle maintenance  

 

The list goes on and on. All of these things greatly increase the chance of an accident and almost every Thai on wheels does them all, every day.

 

And then the biggest problem of all is ZERO law enforcement.

 

Its going to take generations before they even have a fighting chance of getting better. The government will fudge the reports long before they actually stop doing all of the ignorant things they do, and am wearing a helmet isn’t going to chance much.

I don't think that "almost every thai on wheels, does them all every day", but it is certainly a substantial percentage. The key, in my mind for the short term gains is enforcement. For instance, a cop can drive or ride right by a motorcyclist with no helmet and not pull him over, if it is after 6 PM, or not "downtown"...and the police ignore so many other traffic violations. But, if they started enforcement and the cop asked for a "cash payment with no receipt"...that will not work. There has to be some respect for the laws. And how often do we see cops "patrolling"...not that often. They are normally at checkstops.