Embassy Explanation for Ceasing Immigration letters

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, Number 6 said:

Anyway it looks like you're all going home apparently because you cannot manage the technical aspects of the extension requirements. Namely getting your money into the bank on time.

Always managed to get my 65k in the bank on time. Just waiting for the last one to hit my Thai bank account as we speak. Will be applying for my extension next month. Will put the 800k in the bank if it doesn't pan out but I really don't want to. The whole process is just much more inconvenient than the simple process of obtaining an embassy letter.

[elviajero]

18 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

I very much doubt that it's the opinion of the UK embassy. Just an exercise in downsizing. Not the opinion of the 80 other embassys that continue to produce the letters either.

And the US embassy was "downsizing" too? 

 

Both had a very simple system that required very little man power effort. Verifying the income is a whole new ball game.

 

It's probably no more than 20 or so 'western' embassies that get involved with producing these letters. And most of those 20 don't have anywhere near the numbers the UK/US embassy process.

[DannyCarlton]

Just now, elviajero said:

And the US embassy was "downsizing" too? 

The US embassy was the original target for the TI declaration. They were aware that numbers of US citizens had made ficticious declarations regarding their incomes. This was evidenced by a number of reports from IOs, Chaing Mai in the main but others too, that US citizens bringing in their affidavits to apply for their extensions were increasingly being asked to provide further evidence of income. AFAIAA this only happened to US citizens and started even before TI made the declaration. Never heard of even one Brit being asked to provide further evidence of income. Clearly TI were quite happy with British income letters.

 

So don't blame us scummy Brits for this, blame the scamming Americans.

[DannyCarlton]

14 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It's probably no more than 20 or so 'western' embassies that get involved with producing these letters. And most of those 20 don't have anywhere near the numbers the UK/US embassy process.

Whether it's 80 or 20 embassys involved and no matter how many letters they process, they haven't changed their verification methods since the TI announcement. We have already heard from one poster whose embassy still uses the stautary declaration method.

[sweatalot]

On 11/16/2019 at 2:57 PM, elviajero said:

Because they are prepared to confirm that they’ve confirmed the income.
 

The British embassy are not willing to verify the income — as required by immigration; therefore, they’re not prepared to provide a letter to immigration stating they have.

Solution could be that the embassy issues the letter if their citizens support them with valid documents from their source of income?

 

This would be the correct way. But I suppose most of them who complain would not be happy with that solution, because they don't have the requested income.

[DannyCarlton]

15 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

Solution could be that the embassy issues the letter if their citizens support them with valid documents from their source of income?

 

This would be the correct way. But I suppose most of them who complain would not be happy with that solution, because they don't have the requested income.

This is how it was always done with the British Embassy. Those that didn't have the income always used an agent (and still do).

[thailand49]

On 11/15/2019 at 11:57 PM, elviajero said:

Because they are prepared to confirm that they’ve confirmed the income.
 

The British embassy are not willing to verify the income — as required by immigration; therefore, they’re not prepared to provide a letter to immigration stating they have.

And how does an Embassy do that in 10 minutes?  My cousin walked into the Chinese Embassy and came out in 10 minutes 3 minutes of that time he said he had to us the bathroom????? 

I use to help out family business with loans it took at least a week to do a credit check and verify income,  even if not ten minutes 15 minutes top?  What is correct something does smell?

Edited November 17, 2019 by thailand49

[GordonP]

Interestingly, my 2016,7+8 requests for "income letter" from the British Embassy had to be accompanied by;

1. A current letter from my pension provider confirming the annual/monthly pension amount. 

2. Copies of my UK bank account for the previous three months showing receipt of said pension. 

 

Was that not a comprehensive validation? 

[DrJack54]

34 minutes ago, GordonP said:

Interestingly, my 2016,7+8 requests for "income letter" from the British Embassy had to be accompanied by;

1. A current letter from my pension provider confirming the annual/monthly pension amount. 

2. Copies of my UK bank account for the previous three months showing receipt of said pension. 

 

Was that not a comprehensive validation? 

So if I have many investment rentals what do I show to the UK embassy.

Rental returns with bank records showing real estate agent deposits into my bank would mean what exactly. 

Perhaps they are all mortgaged to the max. Perhaps all have zero debt.

What next....my tax return?

Capital depreciation allowance can wipe off actual income of 5kusd per property. Oh how I wish I could possess a pension. Sadly only available for poor folk.

[Wake Up]

On 11/15/2019 at 11:52 PM, Matzzon said:

Oh dear, for crying out load! It´s an Embassy that represents UK in a foreign country. They are not there to create a better life for UK citizens that wish to settle down in Thailand.

They are there for exactly the main reasons the man is kindly expressing, as well as creating, develop and maintain the diplomatic relationship between UK and Thailand.

It´s horrendous! First you all complain about Thai Immigration and they are so bad. When that doesn´t work. Yeah, then you are looking down at your own Embassy that represents your own country in Thailand.

Whenever will you people come to the conclusion that you might be wrong instead of Thai Immigration, your Embassy and everything else you can look down on and shuffle the blame to?

I agree it is called saving money for retirement.  Leave your parents after your education and youth, Get a job, save some money so one day you don’t have to work. Spend less than you make when you work. Don’t rely on governments or others to take care of you.  If you don’t have enough money in retirement then accept you screwed up and if possible get a job.
 

Thailand is not your home birth country and never will be unless you make the effort to become a Thai permanent resident or citizen. I don’t care how many Thai wives and Thai kids you chose to have and pay for you are still and always will be an immigrant temporarily staying in a foreign country. The Thai government has told you that every year you get an extension of stay. No one lied or deceived you and no one is to blame for where you are right now and where you will wake up tomorrow.  
 

Apologize to the men and women on this forum who do not need this information as they have a nice retirement. 
 

 But clearly a lot of posters think they are victims and are entitled to special treatment because they are barely surviving financially in a foreign country and others are to blame for their life choices. 

[Number 6]

1 minute ago, Victornoir said:

Why lie ?

An embassy may choose formal elements to validate the income letters. For example, mine requires the tax notice, which excludes hidden or unreported income. It takes 1 minute charged 30€ and everyone is happy.

No. Obviously the embassy is not happy with it or theyd still be doing it.

 

Most of it is lies.

 

The rest of it is paper pushing, bureaucratic BS which they don't want to deal with. No one at the embassy wants to do this work. Are you surprised? They practice diplomac6and statecraft not hand holding and ass wiping.

 

You're here. You want to stay here? It's super ez as the British embassy knows. Put 800k in the bank.

 

It's done. Shall we just end the thread and discussion?

[sirineou]

I have a friend who complains about the 400k required in the bank for an extension based on marriage while driving around on 1.5 million bht SUV. Is it only me or does anyone else think he should have bought a less expensive vehicle? Do you suppose some of the ones complaining in this forum might be a bit of the same?

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

If you are so rich (?) you have placed 800,000 in deposit and so this thread is not for you...

I opened 1 mill FD account with K bank when the min 8k 3 month after then min 4k after that rule started for extensions based on retirement. Have never used stat dec from au embassy. In the main because its a scam.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I suggest that monthly income cannot be verified/certified by embassies here. 

As per my earlier posts. AU stat decs are not even valid outside of OZ.

Again income is not confined to "pensions" 

Edit...your last comment.. "This thread is not for you". Are you forum police. PO

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by DrJack54

[Number 6]

1 minute ago, Victornoir said:

If you are so rich (?) you have placed 800,000 in deposit and so this thread is not for you...

800k rich... I thought the laffs for the evening were over

.

Why are you people so broke ass poor in a foreign land? The country is so easy to live in by Thai standards

 

I'm thinking 8 million thb isn't even close to rich. Maybe 80 million is getting to the first rung of wealth.

 

[Matzzon]

18 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

f you are so rich (?) you have placed 800,000 in deposit and so this thread is not for you...

Really? How do you consider 800k baht as beeing rich? 

[Number 6]

17 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I have a friend who complains about the 400k required in the bank for an extension based on marriage while driving around on 1.5 million bht SUV. Is it only me or does anyone else think he should have bought a less expensive vehicle? Do you suppose some of the ones complaining in this forum might be a bit of the same?

I think it's worse.

 

Men that have an absolute inability to manage their money and at the same time cling to a western standard of living. So that's a flash pad, ac 24/7, fast cable, fat mobile data package, TVs, new phone, private transport, western food, no clue how to cook themselves, evening out to kill the loneliness, girls $$$ to kill the loneliness. Sunday roasts, imported pints. Like that. Would find it absolutely impossible to live not only in Bangkok but even upcountry on 25k pm. Can't eat Thai food. Hate rice. If we are really blunt.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Number 6

[Toadie]

So the gist of the compliant is, "I cannot provide evidence of income as a required and my embassy won't verify my income for me". Hence everybody is not looking after me as they should.

 

With that logic why not go further and go for, "If my county puts 800k thb in a Thai bank for me and maintains it I will cost them less in the long run as I am not using govt services at home. Therefore it is a cost savings for them."

 

Works for me...

[BertM]

50 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I have a friend who complains about the 400k required in the bank for an extension based on marriage while driving around on 1.5 million bht SUV. Is it only me or does anyone else think he should have bought a less expensive vehicle? Do you suppose some of the ones complaining in this forum might be a bit of the same?

I'm sure some people complaining on the forum now and during the past year are in similar situations, short on cash in the bank, but with some assets and find themselves having to xfer each month. That's a hassle. And, I'm sure many others probably never had the required income in the first place and was using income letters & affidavits fraudulently. I know one person who's pension was only 34k THB per month and was getting the income letters. He even told me to just put a fictitious number down, but he didn't know my pension was 3 times the required amount and I wasn't going to tell him either. So, when the embassy stopped, it wasn't a problem for me. Now, I just use the money in the bank for convenience instead of having to xfer each month.

Edited November 17, 2019 by BertM

[DrJack54]

32 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

I think it's worse.

 

Men that have an absolute inability to manage their money and at the same time cling to a western standard of living. So that's a flash pad, ac 24/7, fast cable, fat mobile data package, TVs, new phone, private transport, western food, no clue how to cook themselves, evening out to kill the loneliness, girls $$$ to kill the loneliness. Sunday roasts, imported pints. Like that. Would find it absolutely impossible to live not only in Bangkok but even upcountry on 25k pm. Can't eat Thai food. Hate rice. If we are really blunt.

Is your post even remotely related to op. Just to remind you it is/was about embassy services. May as well post about your dinner tonight. Geezus.

[BertM]

31 minutes ago, Toadie said:

So the gist of the compliant is, "I cannot provide evidence of income as a required and my embassy won't verify my income for me". Hence everybody is not looking after me as they should.

It's called the victim mentality. Some people are victims and some people take responsibility for their own situation and adapt. I personally think it's a waste of time to complain about something that happened a year ago, but apparently it makes some people feel better to blow off some steam and do the blame game. Good night...

Edited November 17, 2019 by BertM

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

And so 800,000 are nothing for the rich Dr. Jack.
Should I explain to you again or have you finally understood?

I appreciate that English is not your first language so I will cut you some slack.

The OP is regarding embassies providing document to satisfy Thai imm for extensions based on income method.

Does your embassy provide that? If so detail what docs you provide. That would be positive info.

Sadly don't think it will be forthcoming. 

[WhatupThailand]

So many things in Thailand are made by only a ID Copy that is signed,

Why is there no similar Income Statement for Immigration ?

 

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, WhatupThailand said:

So many things in Thailand are made by only a ID Copy that is signed,

Why is there no similar Income Statement for Immigration ?

 

Best joke so far this month.

Can you explain what an income statement is? 

 

[Mr Smithy]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Can you explain what an income statement is?

A Statement of Income?  

[Max69xl]

"As part of this process we worked hard to ensure that Thai authorities provide alternative ways for British Nationals to prove their income."

Why would Thai authorities provide alternative ways to prove their income? 

If the UK Embassy couldn't handle the verification, why should Immigration be able to do it? 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Max69xl

[mlmcleod]

I contacted my US congresswoman and made the same complaint.  I understand that the embassy can not verify all pension income.  However, It would be quite simple to allow expats to waive their privacy rights and have the embassy confirm Social Security income if requested.  Thailand will not accept my Social Security benefit letter since it does not come from the embassy.  The embassy will not confirm my social security income benefit letter due to privacy concerns.  This is a circular catch-22 that should be easy to fix if the will is there.  Sadly, The US embassy can care less.

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

I always sent an original payslip from my pension company, original P60 (annual tax return) and copies of 3 months bank statements. More than adequate for verification.

That is not actual verification though is it.... unless they contact the pension provider it is not verified. They are certifying you have provided evidence and they have seen it.... Thai immigration wanted the job done for them. Actually the letter from the Embassy was never written in the rules, more specified in a Q and A section. It became de-facto after a period of accepting a right  mishmash of paperwork that they had no understanding of. My neighbours,for years, submitted a letter from some investment guy.... who later turned out to be a fraudster!

Edited November 17, 2019 by jacko45k

[DannyCarlton]

18 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

That is not actual verification though is it.... unless they contact the pension provider it is not verified.

It's semantics around the word "verified". The British Embassy verified that you submitted documents that they recognised as legitimate to proove your income.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

It's semantics around the word "verified". The British Embassy verified that you submitted documents that they recognised as legitimate to proove your income.

Sadly, fabricating legitimate 'looking' documents is relatively easy. The phrase 'recognized as legitimate' makes my head spin too. Some sources of income surely have no such documents too. They are not very 'trusting' in Thai immigration.

[DannyCarlton]

13 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Sadly, fabricating legitimate 'looking' documents is relatively easy. The phrase 'recognized as legitimate' makes my head spin too. Some sources of income surely have no such documents too. They are not very 'trusting' in Thai immigration.

Do you know of a single case of someone fabricating documents to send to the British Embassy? No, me neither.

 

IME those who couldn't prove their incomes to the embassy, engaged a visa agent. Far less risky and far easier and, in practice, legitimate. Since the letters ceased, more people than ever are using this method.

 

Ceasing the letters didn't affect the "bad guys", just the "good guys".