Embassy Explanation for Ceasing Immigration letters

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Do you know of a single case of someone fabricating documents to send to the British Embassy?

Yes..... you should not answer for other people.

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Ceasing the letters didn't affect the "bad guys", just the "good guys".

Usually the case.... as it was with the 800k in the bank. Forcing 'good guys' into the hands of agents, which is what I believe was the aim anyhow. 

I often felt the Embassy letters were an OTT requirement, then I learned how easily they were obtained, and how little they proved. 

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Do you know of a single case of someone fabricating documents to send to the British Embassy? No, me neither.

 

IME those who couldn't prove their incomes to the embassy, engaged a visa agent. Far less risky and far easier and, in practice, legitimate. Since the letters ceased, more people than ever are using this method.

 

Ceasing the letters didn't affect the "bad guys", just the "good guys".

I am also aware of spurious information being submitted (and accepted) but I don’t personally know of anyone submitting forged copies of P60s, bank statements etc.

 

The spurious stuff could largely be eradicated by the embassy stipulating specific documents.

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Usually the case.... as it was with the 800k in the bank. Forcing 'good guys' into the hands of agents, which is what I believe was the aim anyhow. 

I often felt the Embassy letters were an OTT requirement, then I learned how easily they were obtained, and how little they proved. 

 

I wouldn’t disagree with that but rather than stopping them I would have sharpened up the application process. What was submitted was barely scrutinised but it was stronger than the American system where they just said “my income is $50,000 pa” and got a letter.

[zydeco]

11 hours ago, BertM said:

I personally think it's a waste of time to complain about something that happened a year ago

And yet here you are on this forum, complaining about people you think are complaining.

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

It's semantics around the word "verified". The British Embassy verified that you submitted documents that they recognised as legitimate to proove your income.

The UK embassy didn't have a clue what they verified. In many cases they accepted sworn testaments, not stamped and signed documents showing the actual pension. 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

I contacted my US congresswoman and made the same complaint.  I understand that the embassy can not verify all pension income.  However, It would be quite simple to allow expats to waive their privacy rights and have the embassy confirm Social Security income if requested.  Thailand will not accept my Social Security benefit letter since it does not come from the embassy.  The embassy will not confirm my social security income benefit letter due to privacy concerns.  This is a circular catch-22 that should be easy to fix if the will is there.  Sadly, The US embassy can care less.

One of the other Embassies, I forget which but might have been the Danes, has solved this as follows:

 

1. Citizen requests letter from government pension source (for US woyld be SS) stating their monthly benefit to be sent to them c/o the Embassy.

 

2  When letter arrives citizen goes to the Embassy,  receives and opens letter in front of Consular officer. Shows it to Consular office who then issues an income letter stating Embassy has verified government pension income of XX.

 

Privacy issue solved. Any possibility of someone having photoshopped or otherwise falsified the documentation (which IMO is pretty farfetched anyhow) solved.

 

I see no reason US Embassy could not do the same. The limitation will be that only some people have SS benefit of 65k baht or over. At least half, maybe more, reach 65k only through combination of SS and income strwams (pensions, dividends, annuities etc). 

 

Still would work for retirees with SS of 65k and over and also for those with SS below that threshold but able to make up the difference through money in the bank (combo method). Would also work for almost everyone on marriage extension since it is rate for SS to be less than 40k baht a month.

[potless]

On 11/17/2019 at 6:48 AM, jacko45k said:

On 11/16/2019 at 12:54 PM, potless said:

Then how is it possible that other countries are able to supply such letters without any problems? zydeco already beat me to it with a post.

Have you seen the letters every other country still issues? It would be interesting to know how they are worded. 

No I havent seen the "letters" that other countries are able to supply. Hence my question.

 

On 11/17/2019 at 6:48 AM, jacko45k said:

I expect that because the Nigerian Embassy issues a letter saying Omongo does get a pension,

I recently received a letter from Omongo himself. Apparently he has $50,000,000 dollars in his bank account and needs my help to get it out of Nigeria.????

[Jingjock]

My embassy requires us to sign a Statuary Declaration signed by us to say this is our earnings. We have to produce it to the Thai immigration, our embassy doe's not release personal details, they just verify the information given.

I left UK 50 years ago, best decision I ever made in my life.

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

One of the other Embassies, I forget which but might have been the Danes, has solved this as follows:

 

1. Citizen requests letter from government pension source (for US woyld be SS) stating their monthly benefit to be sent to them c/o the Embassy.

 

2  When letter arrives citizen goes to the Embassy,  receives and opens letter in front of Consular officer. Shows it to Consular office who then issues an income letter stating Embassy has verified government pension income of XX.

 

Privacy issue solved. Any possibility of someone having photoshopped or otherwise falsified the documentation (which IMO is pretty farfetched anyhow) solved.

 

I see no reason US Embassy could not do the same. The limitation will be that only some people have SS benefit of 65k baht or over. At least half, maybe more, reach 65k only through combination of SS and income strwams (pensions, dividends, annuities etc). 

 

Still would work for retirees with SS of 65k and over and also for those with SS below that threshold but able to make up the difference through money in the bank (combo method). Would also work for almost everyone on marriage extension since it is rate for SS to be less than 40k baht a month.

Retirees from Denmark have a big problem showing their total pension. In many western countries in Europe it's normal to have a pension from several sources, other than the government pension, for example insurance companies and/or banks. Only using the government pension will in many cases not be enough to satisfy Immigration when we are talking about at least 65k monthly. Pension from other sources are as official as the government pension,and it's crazy to exclude it. 

[Max69xl]

12 minutes ago, Jingjock said:

My embassy requires us to sign a Statuary Declaration signed by us to say this is our earnings. We have to produce it to the Thai immigration, our embassy doe's not release personal details, they just verify the information given.

I left UK 50 years ago, best decision I ever made in my life.

What embassy and where do your information come from? 

[Mr Smithy]

I once witnessed an American with an affidavit be asked to prove the source of his income - he could not. I was next in line and presented my BE letter which was accepted without question although had I been asked I could have shown my income derived from UK government sources.

[Seismic]

On 11/16/2019 at 12:52 PM, Matzzon said:

They are there for exactly the main reasons the man is kindly expressing, as well as creating, develop and maintain the diplomatic relationship between UK and Thailand.
 

Actually Consular services (which provided the letter) has nothing at all to do with "developing and maintaining a diplomatic relationship between the US and Thailand. That is the purpose of the Ambassador and his staff.

[Matzzon]

36 minutes ago, Seismic said:

Actually Consular services (which provided the letter) has nothing at all to do with "developing and maintaining a diplomatic relationship between the US and Thailand. That is the purpose of the Ambassador and his staff.

No but it had to do with what the man kindly expressed, as well as helping with lost passports and visas to the country of the Embassy.

And the Embassy is also in it´s whole there for developing and maintaining a diplomatic relationship between the US and Thailand.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Matzzon

[Number 6]

18 hours ago, Victornoir said:

And so 800,000 are nothing for the rich Dr. Jack.
Should I explain to you again or have you finally understood?

I'm not Jack nor am I the grammar police but I have no idea what you're talking about. What a dopey post.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Number 6

[Mac98]

On 11/17/2019 at 1:02 AM, Salerno said:

From which countries? Certainly not for Australians who would be on around 35,000 Bht per month on a full pension (single) at todays exchange rate.

I sympathize, but no reason to block those who would qualify. And again, no matter the amount, you could do the combination method with letter and bank deposit.

[Number 6]

5 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Retirees from Denmark have a big problem showing their total pension. In many western countries in Europe it's normal to have a pension from several sources, other than the government pension, for example insurance companies and/or banks. Only using the government pension will in many cases not be enough to satisfy Immigration when we are talking about at least 65k monthly. Pension from other sources are as official as the government pension,and it's crazy to exclude it. 

I think this is true everywhere, perhaps even Germany, Norway and Switzerland. 65k is a huge standard bog government retirement pension.

 

Remember thinking some years back essentially anyone with only govt pension cannot possibly get a retirement extension based on this anywhere in the world.

 

In US I think only way to get close is to start pulling at 70 not earlier.

[Mac98]

21 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

I think this is true everywhere, perhaps even Germany, Norway and Switzerland. 65k is a huge standard bog government retirement pension.

 

Remember thinking some years back essentially anyone with only govt pension cannot possibly get a retirement extension based on this anywhere in the world.

 

In US I think only way to get close is to start pulling at 70 not earlier.

 

21 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

I think this is true everywhere, perhaps even Germany, Norway and Switzerland. 65k is a huge standard bog government retirement pension.

 

Remember thinking some years back essentially anyone with only govt pension cannot possibly get a retirement extension based on this anywhere in the world.

 

In US I think only way to get close is to start pulling at 70 not earlier.

I took my U.S. pension for average career at age 65 and it is currently at 64,000b per month after the recent dollar fall. An embassy letter confirming this amount and 32,000b in a Thai bank would meet the minimum income requirements. Any amount of confirmed income makes it easier to attain the 800,000 threshold. FYI: Government workers, police, firemen get much higher retirement payments, sometimes 80% of their salary.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Mac98
Add clarification.

[Number 6]

1 minute ago, Mac98 said:

I took my U.S. pension for average career at age 65 and it is currently at 64,000b per month after the recent dollar fall.

That's great I'm sure you pretty much worked until that age as well.

[Mac98]

4 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

That's great I'm sure you pretty much worked until that age as well.

Actually retired at 62. Thailand was calling.

[Number 6]

Just now, Mac98 said:

Actually retired at 62. Thailand was calling.

Yes. So many here at 50, 52, 55 will be different. Me 43.

[Number 6]

15 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Wow ! What essential information...

And outside of you, your age and your life in general, do you have anything interesting to propose to advance the debate?

Go, ignored

How strident. This was obviously something between the two of us and nothing more. Funny, people come to Thailand, bring the same shrillness.

 

I'm going to lose sleep over being ignored by you, I'm certain.

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

I think this is true everywhere, perhaps even Germany, Norway and Switzerland. 65k is a huge standard bog government retirement pension.

 

Remember thinking some years back essentially anyone with only govt pension cannot possibly get a retirement extension based on this anywhere in the world.

 

In US I think only way to get close is to start pulling at 70 not earlier.

Only Denmark as far as I know (I might be wrong), excludes other pensions than the government pension when issuing income letters for Immigration. 

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

Only Denmark as far as I know (I might be wrong), excludes other pensions than the government pension when issuing income letters for Immigration. 

Rest my case. Many countries eg AU do not refer to "pensions". In au that means government old age pension for very poor folk. 

I not wish to sound superior but I have several rentals. Point is, I can provide evidence of monthly deposits from rental manage agent. That means f..all if I have debt/mortgage obligations. Which I do not.

Point is no embassy can VERIFY/CERTIFY my income.

Poor folk have pensions.

[DannyCarlton]

59 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Poor folk have pensions.

In the UK, everyone, rich and poor gets a pension. I have just started recieving mine.

 

Prior to that, I lived in Thailand on my company pension (which more than satisfied immigration requirements) and investments in the UK. I would rather not put 800k in a Thai bank account as I can earn considerably more from it by investing it in the UK. It's not just poor people who are prudent with their money.

 

"Arrogance is ignorance".

[gimo]

    Could an American or Brit please write to their Embassy and ask the specific question ----  If Embassies of other countries can still provide these proof of pension income letters for their citizens , why can't ours ? What's the difference ?   Because  if the Brit and American Embassies change their minds the Aussie Embassy will follow suit , and I'll be happy .

[DrJack54]

8 hours ago, gimo said:

    Could an American or Brit please write to their Embassy and ask the specific question ----  If Embassies of other countries can still provide these proof of pension income letters for their citizens , why can't ours ? What's the difference ?   Because  if the Brit and American Embassies change their minds the Aussie Embassy will follow suit , and I'll be happy .

The au embassy will not "follow" because they were using stat dec previously. Stat decs can only be used within Australia. According to published info and endorsed by embassy staff.

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, Mr Smithy said:

I once witnessed an American with an affidavit be asked to prove the source of his income - he could not.

And was he hauled off to the cells! ????

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, gimo said:

    Could an American or Brit please write to their Embassy and ask the specific question ----  If Embassies of other countries can still provide these proof of pension income letters for their citizens , why can't ours ? What's the difference ?   Because  if the Brit and American Embassies change their minds the Aussie Embassy will follow suit , and I'll be happy .

What other countries do is not necessarily a good guideline for what developed countries should do. Many have rights to privacy.

[gimo]

6 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The au embassy will not "follow" because they were using stat dec previously. Stat decs can only be used within Australia. According to published info and endorsed by embassy staff.

    So that means that there must have been a change of policy regarding stat decs , and that change of policy happened coincidentally , at the same time as the Brit and U S Embassies  stopped their proof of pension / income letters .