Bigger cause of expats leaving...

[MRToMRT]

Its not only the leavers (I don't know anyone myself yet who has left for these reasons I must admit) but also those coming for the first time. The increase in requirements will make people consider other, maybe "easier", alternatives. 

 

I am leaving but for neither of these reasons. Its not a cheap location anymore and a lot of its cultural individuality as a country is being lost to internationalization and greed. 

[uncleeagle]

 Actually, I think there are many other reasons.

 

Ive been taking my money out of Thailand recently (thanks for the 10% gain Thailand, did you know you have somewhat enriched this white westerner?) as I have decided the yearly non O based extension is now more trouble than its worth and the reason is the TM30.

 

The day or two at Chaengwattana, the time getting there, the time taken to get the paperwork from my bank...etc etc...it was bad enough already but now that I will need to wait at desk B for hours for the TM30 receipt, obtainable in no other way, worrying about rejection for some petty reason, plus other added complications I wont mention, has added up to too much for me to bother with. 

 

The insurance requirement apparently wont apply to me anyway, and no way would i buy it it did (hey guess what I dont like getting scammed) but the need for a TM30 receipt will and ive decided its the straw that is breaking the camels back in terms of nuisance, nonsense and wasting of my time by the immigration idiots.

 

I will therefore be spending far less time in Thailand once my current one year extension has expired. But thats OK, I will close the door on my way out and my lost revenue will easily be made up for by a couple of hundred Chinese and Indian tourists and I am sure the Thais will love their manners.

[BritManToo]

51 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

If you don't actually need the benefits, you can buy a policy with a 300,000k deductible for about half price.

 Can I buy one with a 400k deductible for 10K?

[cyril sneer]

the changes actually make me want to stay

 

shifts out a lot of scum

[john terry1001]

On 11/22/2019 at 4:34 PM, glegolo said:

I think that the most strong reason is and will be lack of knowledge how to navigate in life for many guys. I dont think that there is especially much people on Non Immigrant O-A, and those who are, can go and change to a VISA "O" instead.....

If based on retirement, only if they have 800k baht deposited in a Thai bank, there isn't a monthly income option.

[DrJack54]

16 minutes ago, moontang said:

i dont split legal hairs with losers.  Pretty obvious that some over 50 are being asked to prove insurance and others are not.  Welcome to my ignore list.  At least I wont have to read about your exploits trying to stay legal in Jomtien, again.  Join the ranks of Thainess and Just Weird...nice club.  

Backs up your poor credentials. You start post, mostly poorly informed, then spit dummy.

You cannot reply to questions mainly due to lack of credible posts about requirements for recent extensions. Based on long expired O-A entries.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

You must be comparatively young.

 

Make sure you look at costs at later ages if you are planning to stay here long.

 

And at up to what age they will guarantee renewal.

 

I should add, Falcon renews only up to age 65 maximum and does not guarantee even that, renewal is never guaranteed.

 

So absolutely not recommended for anyone retiring here permanently.

 

If you are sure you will only be here a few years, that's different (though even then I would personally be put off by the lack of renewal guarantee).

[Sheryl]

22 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 Can I buy one with a 400k deductible for 10K?

 

1. Maximum deductible is 300k

 

2. No policy is that cheap.  With PC 300K deductible and their lowest cost plan (which also means lowest cover)  around 26K at age 61-65, more at higher ages.

[moontang]

7 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Backs up your poor credentials. You start post, mostly poorly informed, then spit dummy.

You cannot reply to questions mainly due to lack of credible posts about requirements for recent extensions. Based on long expired O-A entries.

Check your bottle bottoms..you seem to have overlooked a 95 page thread on this exact matter.  

 

[Genericnic]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

You must be comparatively young.

 

Make sure you look at costs at later ages if you are planning to stay here long.

 

And at up to what age they will guarantee renewal.

Agreed. I am just 70 and it would be hard to meet the age requirement for almost all the proposed policies. Even if I was inclined to use the government mandated companies and pay their exorbitant cost for low quality coverage, I most likely would not be insurable. Of course the irony of this situation is that I am fully covered in Thailand by insurance that far exceeds the IPD and OPD requirements from immigration and does not expire until I do. ???? Of course, the reason that it is not acceptable is that it does not put any money in a Thai insurance company. I am fully convinced that the government is more interested in funneling money in to Thai insurance companies than making sure retirees (the only ones required to have insurance) don't pay their medical bills.

 

David

 

[DannyCarlton]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

That loophole will likely be closed soon.  I would think half of retirees, not married, are on OA and extensions of OA.  Was clearly the easier way starting out.

No evidence of the "loophole" being closed and I think a lot less than 50% aere on non O-As.

 

Just another harbinger of doom who wishes things were worse than they actually are. Forum is spilling over with them.

[moontang]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

1. Maximum deductible is 300k

 

2. No policy is that cheap.  With PC 300K deductible and their lowest cost plan (which also means lowest cover)  around 26K at age 61-65, more at higher ages.

Is that the max with PC, or per immigration rules?  PC does not offer the best value from what I have seen, but that may be different for older folks.  My brother is paying 700 usd per month with a 7500 deductible on an Obama plan, at under 60.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, moontang said:

That loophole will likely be closed soon.  I would think half of retirees, not married, are on OA and extensions of OA.  Was clearly the easier way starting out.

what loophole are you talking about ?   please explain

[Sheryl]

Just now, moontang said:

Is that the max with PC, or per immigration rules?  PC does not offer the best value from what I have seen, but that may be different for older folks.  My brother is paying 700 use per month with a 7500 deductible on an Obama plan, at under 60.

 

It is PC max but they are the only one on the "list" offering deductible as an option.

 

Typical Thai health insurances have very low cover, no deductible, include OPD  and are comparatively expensive. Pretty much the exact opposite on all counts of what an expat would want. They clearly do nto understand anything about the expat market and are basically offering their usual products, developed for the Thai consumer, at higher prices to somewhat older people. They have nto adjusted the products to address needs or demands from expats.

 

As to why the products aimed at Thais are as they are, I am not sure but I think it may be because the few Thais who buy private insurance (very, very few) do so mainly as a status thing, because they want the "luxury" of treatment in a private hospital and it supplements their free access to government hospitals. If anything major happens, they will use their free care in the government system, but they want to be able to enjoy the nicer amenities at a private hospital for more minor things and they have  enough money to spare to not mind the premium. Likely the companies include the OPD cover because they have found Thais tend to drop policies if a year or two passes and they did nto use it, having OPD makes it likely they will have gotten some use. All of this being very, very different from the situation and thinking of most expats.

[rumak]

9 minutes ago, moontang said:

My brother is paying 700 usd per month with a 7500 deductible on an Obama plan, at under 60.

Really ???   700  usd PER MONTH ?    this is a serious question 

[DrJack54]

18 minutes ago, moontang said:

Check your bottle bottoms..you seem to have overlooked a 95 page thread on this exact matter.  

 

And how many actual extensions applications have been reported rejected. You stated early in your thread that O-A were accounting for "half" of extensions based on retirement. My guess less than 10-20%.

In any event where are the actual reports. You would imagine heaps given the insurance gig started 21 days ago.

 

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

Really ???   700  usd PER MONTH ?    this is a serious question 

 

Yes, in the USA health insurance can cost that much and much, much more.

[Number 6]

Kind of stupid poll. Those leaving for lack of 800k sure have no money for insurance if when that hits.

 

Now, I think it's 800k.

 

I'll leave over insurance because I don't trust what I'm buying and that it will be available essentially until death.

 

Ironic, force you to have insurance but it's unavailable or like everything in this country sold to farang, a scam.

[Genericnic]

For me, it will be the insurance requirement.

 

I have been here for 9 years and while I love Thailand, I anticipate being gone by this time next year. It will not be by my choice but by the necessity imposed by the Thai government. The government has put in place requirements for a new non-O-A visa that at my age (70), I can not meet. Despite having better insurance coverage than the government requires, it requires that I get insurance from Thai companies that will not insure me. In the short term, I will be getting a non-O based on retirement when I return in January - assuming the government has not started applying the current rule to non-Os as well. That, of course would put me in the same situation as I am with the non-O-A extension I have now. 

 

While it is not yet in place, I am convinced that the odds are high that sometime next year the insurance requirement will be extended to non-O visas based on retirement and possibly others as well. It makes no logical sense to have it apply to non-O-As and not to non-Os based on retirement. With that in mind I plan to spend the next year with a non-O and extension doing serious evaluations of places to go when I can no longer legally stay in Thailand. I hope that I am wrong about this but the reality is that I am most likely correct.

 

David

 

 

[rumak]

Just now, Sheryl said:

 

Yes, in the USA health insurance can cost that much and much, much more.

Well thank god i left a long time ago .  Actually I might have even considered going back but I did know (even without checking)  that I would never pay the crazy costs of insurance /health care that the US  demands.   

It is why (besides the way less cost of living here FOR ME)  that I shake my head in disbelief at those that find living here " getting to be too much".    OK, I have left 800k in the bank for the last ten years.  Before that 400 k as i had a thai dependent.  When they told me I needed to change to retirement visa i did not cry and say how terrible and unfair life was.  I dealt with it.  

Truly sorry for those that cannot or do not want to do this method  ( under 50 or not married is a different case, but i will not go into their options)

I never earned a big salary.   I never inherited a cent.   I saved.   Now,  those who are angry at me go to it  ????   Now I am almost 70 and have always "self insured" .   Many people might think I will be sorry.   So far it has worked out great for me.

[Caldera]

My vote goes to health insurance. The way the requirement has been designed, it's just a shameless money grab.

[Genericnic]

5 minutes ago, rumak said:

Well thank god i left a long time ago .  Actually I might have even considered going back but I did know (even without checking)  that I would never pay the crazy costs of insurance /health care that the US  demands.   

It is why (besides the way less cost of living here FOR ME)  that I shake my head in disbelief at those that find living here " getting to be too much".    OK, I have left 800k in the bank for the last ten years.  Before that 400 k as i had a thai dependent.  When they told me I needed to change to retirement visa i did not cry and say how terrible and unfair life was.  I dealt with it.  

Truly sorry for those that cannot or do not want to do this method  ( under 50 or not married is a different case, but i will not go into their options)

I never earned a big salary.   I never inherited a cent.   I saved.   Now,  those who are angry at me go to it  ????   Now I am almost 70 and have always "self insured" .   Many people might think I will be sorry.   So far it has worked out great for me.

I'm always happy to see people that manage their finances to take care of themselves. The problem will be what happens when they change the rules and "self insured" is not an option? Self insured is not currently an option with non-O-As and I fully anticipate that will be the case with non-Os sometime next year. 

 

David

[Brer]

In my small little world I know about 20 expats who live here permanently all aged between 50 and 75. Whilst we have discussed  800k and health insurance not one of us has considered leaving.

I am pretty sure I am the only one who is on an O/A so that represents 5%.

With all it’s almost daily surprises I love Thailand and it’s better the devil you know.

Au revoir losers.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, moontang said:

That loophole will likely be closed soon.  I would think half of retirees, not married, are on OA and extensions of OA.  Was clearly the easier way starting out.

Well I did a poll about this and the results were about 20 percent started with OA and 80 percent O.

[david555]

31 minutes ago, Genericnic said:

For me, it will be the insurance requirement.

 

I have been here for 9 years and while I love Thailand, I anticipate being gone by this time next year. It will not be by my choice but by the necessity imposed by the Thai government. The government has put in place requirements for a new non-O-A visa that at my age (70), I can not meet. Despite having better insurance coverage than the government requires, it requires that I get insurance from Thai companies that will not insure me. In the short term, I will be getting a non-O based on retirement when I return in January - assuming the government has not started applying the current rule to non-Os as well. That, of course would put me in the same situation as I am with the non-O-A extension I have now. 

 

While it is not yet in place, I am convinced that the odds are high that sometime next year the insurance requirement will be extended to non-O visas based on retirement and possibly others as well. It makes no logical sense to have it apply to non-O-As and not to non-Os based on retirement. With that in mind I plan to spend the next year with a non-O and extension doing serious evaluations of places to go when I can no longer legally stay in Thailand. I hope that I am wrong about this but the reality is that I am most likely correct.

 

David

 

 

The only logical thing against your expectations for non "O" . is that non "O" already must keep 450 000Baht on bank not usable , how …. well 5months 800K and 7 month's 400k  put it together and over the whole year a 450 000 is blocked for free use …. strange enough same as the insurance , so if insurance also enforced non "O" is double punished 

[rumak]

13 minutes ago, Genericnic said:

I'm always happy to see people that manage their finances to take care of themselves. The problem will be what happens when they change the rules and "self insured" is not an option? Self insured is not currently an option with non-O-As and I fully anticipate that will be the case with non-Os sometime next year. 

 

David

I understand your concern.  And like you I hope you are wrong.  Who knows?   Did the brits know that their pensions would be dismantled over the years?  Did the US citizens know that the accounts (stock accts and some bank) they saved for all those years would one day out of the blue send them a letter saying that they would be closed.  Or companies that one worked for would suddenly change the pension schemes?  Or that health care costs in the US would bankrupt multitudes of retirees ?  

The older we get the more we have to fear.  It is out of our control.  Unless you are ready to wear a V mask and take back control .   V for Vendetta....    a classic (fantasy )

In the meantime.... we all have to live and choose from our options.  The elderly and less mobile amongst us have it the hardest

[The Man Who Sold the World]

1. What do you think will cause more expats over age 50 to move out of Thailand?

The requirement to have 800k in a Thai bank?

The requirement to purchase health coverage from their list of specific vendors?

 

Well of course it'll be the health insurance requirement - the ones who can't afford THB 800k are already gone.

[david555]

Just now, The Man Who Sold the World said:

1. What do you think will cause more expats over age 50 to move out of Thailand?

The requirement to have 800k in a Thai bank?

The requirement to purchase health coverage from their list of specific vendors?

 

Well of course it'll be the health insurance requirement - the ones who can't afford THB 800k are already gone.

Not all , many use agents …..

[The Man Who Sold the World]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

many use agents …..

and will also use them for insurance

[DannyCarlton]

25 minutes ago, david555 said:

The only logical thing against your expectations for non "O" . is that non "O" already must keep 450 000Baht on bank not usable , how …. well 5months 800K and 7 month's 400k  put it together and over the whole year a 450 000 is blocked for free use …. strange enough same as the insurance , so if insurance also enforced non "O" is double punished 

I make that 566,666.