Ban of sugar cane burning enforced this year. Really?

[KhunBENQ]

My wife told me: this year no burning of sugar cane or the factories will not buy.

Too good to be true.

Can someone confirm?

 

[Grumpy John]

If true is that would be good news. 

[Moonlover]

This a another of those perennials isn't it.

 

I seem to recall that last year they said they would reduce the purchase price of any load that had been burned prior to cutting. Apparently it is very easy to tell. An idea that was dismissed on the grounds that if a crop was not burnt, labour costs to harvest it were much higher so they carried on burning and took the hit.

 

There is only one answer to this problem. Strict enforcement of a rule that says, 'burnt crops WILL NOT be purchased'. 

[Chazar]

sugars  going to get expensive then, also didnt they used to spray it with gramaoxone?

[4MyEgo]

50 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Can someone confirm?

I live in Issan and am always anxious about the smoke from the burning of the rice and sugar cane fields, so far so good.

 

My wife has told me that the village has announced on many occasions over the past months that there is no burning allowed, and anyone seeing anyone burning is to either report it to the mayor or police who will act swiftly.

 

So far so good, not wanting to jinx myself, but how good would it be not to have to breath in that smoke in, it is something that will send me and the family away from here if it continues, i.e. plan B is to move and rent in Hua Hin as I here it's good down there and when we went in May, we liked the place, alternatively, just close it all up and go back to Oz and pay a higher cost of living to breath fresh air.

[thoongfoned]

around us almost everyone burns the crop, there is about 10 rai  25m from where im sitting now....  loads of rai around us under cane (1000's rais) local place thats buys pays around 100 baht more per ton if not burnt, burning/cutting will start after the new year, can not see them stopping burning where we live.....

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Chazar said:

sugars  going to get expensive then, also didnt they used to spray it with gramaoxone?

Judging from the amount of obesity and diabetes that's around nowadays, I'd call that a positive benefit.

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

This a another of those perennials isn't it.

 

I seem to recall that last year they said they would reduce the purchase price of any load that had been burned prior to cutting. Apparently it is very easy to tell. An idea that was dismissed on the grounds that if a crop was not burnt, labour costs to harvest it were much higher so they carried on burning and took the hit.

 

There is only one answer to this problem. Strict enforcement of a rule that says, 'burnt crops WILL NOT be purchased'. 

Burnt sugar cane  has always had a reduced price , burnt cane is easy to tell ...........because it has burn marks on it and it is black,......and it has a  lower  sugar containt ,so a lower price ,but growers  take a lower price ,as a burnt cane crop is easy to cut than un-burnt cane ,and with cutters getting more  difficult to find each year ,growers will almost do anything to keep them happy .

And remember cutters are paid on piece work one bundle of cane has 10 storks ,and a cuter gets 1 baht /bundle ,so to earn some money a cutter needs to cut at least 300 bundles day ,can not be done with un-burnt cane.

In this area this year more cane will be cut be machine , can not find the cutters ,and most are from Burma or Cambodia ,and we get the Issan rice farmers ,come come down after harvesting they rice crop.

[KhunBENQ]

2 hours ago, Chazar said:

sugars  going to get expensive then

If only.

The price that the farmers get will fall.

Driven by world market prices. Oversupply.

 

In about two weeks the season will start here and I will know for sure.
Would be a relief but still hundreds of heavy truck loads will drive by over the months. Can last until April

[farmerjo]

8 hours ago, thoongfoned said:

around us almost everyone burns the crop, there is about 10 rai  25m from where im sitting now....  loads of rai around us under cane (1000's rais) local place thats buys pays around 100 baht more per ton if not burnt, burning/cutting will start after the new year, can not see them stopping burning where we live.....

It's a reality people have to get used to.

If it can be avoided it will but sometimes workforce logistics,disease,etc leave some with no other choice.

I don't grow sugar anymore but will burn my fire breaks on the property again this year,i have a 76 year old neighbour who has slashed and burned forever.I just make sure my boomspray is full of water to help him if it looks like getting away. The bit of smoke we put out is minimal compared to the controlled burns in the park behind us.

[kickstart]

6 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

If only.

The price that the farmers get will fall.

Driven by world market prices. Oversupply.

 

In about two weeks the season will start here and I will know for sure.
Would be a relief but still hundreds of heavy truck loads will drive by over the months. Can last until April

It is not  only the sugar that comes from the mills ,our local mill also makes ethylal alcohol ,from the cane bi-product molasses which then go's on to make gasohol for all our vehicles .

Can not see the price dropping that much ,the government will help out ,and that will help keeping the import of crude oil down ,

This area is well down on cane this year been dry for the past 2 years ,low cane yields farmers are going back to maize or cassava , 

[ireckonso]

16 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

It's a reality people have to get used to.

Tell that to all the children who will grow up with lung disease, asthma etc. Hope you enjoy your burning.

 

[farmerjo]

4 minutes ago, ireckonso said:

Hope you enjoy your burning.

I will.

[jak2002003]

10 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I live in Issan and am always anxious about the smoke from the burning of the rice and sugar cane fields, so far so good.

 

My wife has told me that the village has announced on many occasions over the past months that there is no burning allowed, and anyone seeing anyone burning is to either report it to the mayor or police who will act swiftly.

 

So far so good, not wanting to jinx myself, but how good would it be not to have to breath in that smoke in, it is something that will send me and the family away from here if it continues, i.e. plan B is to move and rent in Hua Hin as I here it's good down there and when we went in May, we liked the place, alternatively, just close it all up and go back to Oz and pay a higher cost of living to breath fresh air.

We have lots of those notices... massive posters, put up all over the countryside here in CM too...… today cycling I passed a couple of the signs next to rice fields that were burning.  No good having these laws and spending money and time on putting posters up, if everyone knows there is zero enforcement!  

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

We have lots of those notices... massive posters, put up all over the countryside here in CM too...… today cycling I passed a couple of the signs next to rice fields that were burning.  No good having these laws and spending money and time on putting posters up, if everyone knows there is zero enforcement!  

These posters burn well ,they  are good for starting the fires.

[SidJames]

I was told that a lot of the fires are started by the lorry drivers.

They see fields ready in an area that they are working so set fire to them, once burnt the cane doesn't have long left so needs to be cut which the farmer does.

The lorry drivers are freelancers so only get paid per load so know that the farmer needs them as much as they need the farmer.

Any truth in this?

They have stopped the burning of cane in Brazil by government intervention of pricing between burnt & unburnt (pity they don't do the same with their rain forests)

[thoongfoned]

13 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

We have lots of those notices... massive posters, put up all over the countryside here in CM too...… today cycling I passed a couple of the signs next to rice fields that were burning.  No good having these laws and spending money and time on putting posters up, if everyone knows there is zero enforcement!  

where we are they set the fires after dark.....,  drove past the local weigh station this morning,they got the tractor in clearing the weeds, get the finance in place (had a bank car in the lot also) then open the gates come new years time...

[thoongfoned]

On 11/24/2019 at 1:47 PM, kickstart said:

Burnt sugar cane  has always had a reduced price , burnt cane is easy to tell ...........because it has burn marks on it and it is black,......and it has a  lower  sugar containt ,so a lower price ,but growers  take a lower price ,as a burnt cane crop is easy to cut than un-burnt cane ,and with cutters getting more  difficult to find each year ,growers will almost do anything to keep them happy .

And remember cutters are paid on piece work one bundle of cane has 10 storks ,and a cuter gets 1 baht /bundle ,so to earn some money a cutter needs t cutat least 300 bundles day ,can not be done with un-burnt cane.

In this area this year more cane will be cut be machine , can not find the cutters ,and most are from Burma or Cambodia ,and we get the Issan rice farmers ,come come down after harvesting they rice crop.

lady that "cleans" our house also does the farm labor jobs localy, past couple of days she has been out cutting un burnt cane for re- planting. 10 "sticks" in a bundle 2 baht each bundle, says most of the day working all for about 200 baht.... working cleaning our house for a couple hours every other day seems like a dream job when you put it into context.

[thoongfoned]

from what i can make out from the wife the local government have said there is to be no burning of cane from now on.... our cleaner lady said some thing along these lines this morning, she is cutting full time at the mo, stops when she gets to 200 baht a day...

[ireckonso]

With the low prices and hopefully chemical bans most of these sugar cane toxic waste dumps will go out of business, in the last 5-6 years with the growth of cane around here the environment has taken a heavy toll let alone the children and elderly showing up at the hospital where my wife works with major lung problems. I say F&&k em all and their sugar cane !!!

[thoongfoned]

4 hours ago, ireckonso said:

With the low prices and hopefully chemical bans most of these sugar cane toxic waste dumps will go out of business, in the last 5-6 years with the growth of cane around here the environment has taken a heavy toll let alone the children and elderly showing up at the hospital where my wife works with major lung problems. I say F&&k em all and their sugar cane !!!

we have 4 children all have lived in the village full time, only now the eldest is off at school in bkk, never any lung problems, we are surrounded by cane land.... around the village there is no rubbish collection, so people just burn all the non sell items, always have since i ve been coming here. i would think that living in say bkk would be more harmful to ones health then living in the sticks.... not to menetion chaing mai...

even if the price at the gate drops alot the processor plant we still be making good bahts, dont hold ya breath on the banning of the chemicals to control weeds...

the returns per rai on say growing cane vs say rice, what returns the best baht do you think?

[IsaanAussie]

7 hours ago, ireckonso said:

With the low prices and hopefully chemical bans most of these sugar cane toxic waste dumps will go out of business

Toxic waste dumps? Please..... spend a little time looking at the value creation chain in the sugar industry. Much of the cane waste is burnt co-generating power in the sugar refineries. I for one would take as much of that black gold end product as they could send me. Sugar cane bagasse, yes please....

 

[farmerjo]

25 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

Toxic waste dumps? Please..... spend a little time looking at the value creation chain in the sugar industry. Much of the cane waste is burnt co-generating power in the sugar refineries. I for one would take as much of that black gold end product as they could send me. Sugar cane bagasse, yes please....

 

I agree,this year will be the first where i will use their by-product soil mate as my main fertilizer.

We enquired a couple of years back but the compaction of the 6 wheeler trucks on the field was a concern at that time.

I feel now the land is suitable for this application.

So there are many benefits of growing sugar cane despite the obvious. 

 

[kickstart]

10 hours ago, ireckonso said:

With the low prices and hopefully chemical bans most of these sugar cane toxic waste dumps will go out of business, in the last 5-6 years with the growth of cane around here the environment has taken a heavy toll let alone the children and elderly showing up at the hospital where my wife works with major lung problems. I say F&&k em all and their sugar cane !!!

I live in a big cane growing area ,and last year  our local mill received 4 million ton of cane ,never seen a toxic waste dump ,what ever one of those are ,as IA said most of the waste or the crushed cane stalks is used as fuel, as in the following .   { At the mill, the sugar cane is crushed by large rollers. The extracted juice is then clarified to remove soil and impurities. This juice is concentrated into a syrup by boiling off excess water, seeded with raw sugar crystals in a vacuum pan and boiled until sugar crystals have formed and grown.}.

As for banning sugar cane ,if you want to pay 10 baht more for your fule for the car motorbike,  molasses go's on to make ethylal  alcohol, known as gasohol, so be it.

 

Right back to the subject ,soil mate ,we have a lot of that applied in this area ,been trying to find out how much a load is ?,is EM mixed with it ?,any one  know the analysis. 

AS FJ  said, around here 10 wheeled trucks apply   the soil mate ,  soil compaction would be a problem especially if the crop has been harvested by machine  ,with   10 wheeled trucks collecting the crop .

But now,  most growers subsoil between the rows after harvest ,applying fertilizer at the same time, often thought  the fertilizer is put in too deep almost out our reach of the plant .  

[farmerjo]

9 hours ago, kickstart said:

Right back to the subject ,soil mate ,we have a lot of that applied in this area ,been trying to find out how much a load is ?,is EM mixed with it ?,any one  know the analysis.

Hi KS,

Last time i enquired the liquid product was free from the factory,you just had to pay for the 10 wheelers to deliver and spread.

For memory you had to apply at 1000 litres/rai so a truck could do 10-12 rai depending on tank size and had some EM,molasses mixed in the product.

We are 40 km's from the factory.

Will give a more detailed analysis after i finish harvest here and revisit the factory,it may of changed a bit as they also make bagged fertilizer now.  

[IsaanAussie]

I didn't know about the fertiliser output, that is interesting. We aren't in a cane area and therefore don't have the cane trucks returning empty past us that can deliver bagasse. 

ForEverFord used to get loads of the stuff, about 2,000 baht a ten wheeler delivered. Perfect for composting as it had some moisture and sugars which meant a perfect biological high carbon breeding ground. Just add the nitrogen. LAB builds up naturally in quantity in a bagasse heap and the pile will heat moderately adding nothing else. So if you were to use it in preparing a seed bed for sunhemp or legumous covers it should do wonders for the soil.

I would be very interested in the range and pricing of these "new" products. 

[kickstart]

3 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

I didn't know about the fertiliser output, that is interesting. We aren't in a cane area and therefore don't have the cane trucks returning empty past us that can deliver bagasse. 

ForEverFord used to get loads of the stuff, about 2,000 baht a ten wheeler delivered. Perfect for composting as it had some moisture and sugars which meant a perfect biological high carbon breeding ground. Just add the nitrogen. LAB builds up naturally in quantity in a bagasse heap and the pile will heat moderately adding nothing else. So if you were to use it in preparing a seed bed for sunhemp or legumous covers it should do wonders for the soil.

I would be very interested in the range and pricing of these "new" products. 

Having lived in this area for a good few years ,never seen bagasse outside of a sugar mill ,as I said it is used as fuel for the sugar boilers ,I did know some one who looked in to getting babasse as an cattle feed ,but that went no where also it would not make a good feed .

As you said the thought of all that compost that could be made is mind boggling .

But saying that I have seen loads of bagasse on trucks going though our area during the closed season ,it was the smell that I noticed very sweet  fermented  smell,where it was going I do not know .

One guy a few years ago made some sugar cane silage and sold it to local farmers ,again not the best of feeds,low protein ,but when the silage bag was opened ,it smelt like lao khow ,cattle did like it ,now how would sugar cane put though a chipper shredder  and made in to compost work ,we have cane in this area that is only 5 foot tall ,hardly making economical sense  to cut  they say you can compost almost anything ,might work . 

[IsaanAussie]

This is one of the things I was thinking of trying as fermented feed. Use the shredder to reduce the cane, add some rice bran EM and molasses. Then bale the lot with the round baler and wrap the bales in plastic. Should be fermented in about 3 weeks and ready to go. Bales are about 700mm long and about 500mm dia.

The baler is almost here, wrapper close behind. Got a hammermill with a choose of screens and fitted with a cyclone.

Where does the cane come from? Love to give it a go.

[kickstart]

2 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

This is one of the things I was thinking of trying as fermented feed. Use the shredder to reduce the cane, add some rice bran EM and molasses. Then bale the lot with the round baler and wrap the bales in plastic. Should be fermented in about 3 weeks and ready to go. Bales are about 700mm long and about 500mm dia.

The baler is almost here, wrapper close behind. Got a hammermill with a choose of screens and fitted with a cyclone.

Where does the cane come from? Love to give it a go.

Fermented feeds a good idea,but your idea of using a shredder to shred the cane and then  balling  I think will not work ,the shredded crop  would be to short to bale ,it would not hold together in a bale, a round baler rotates the crop as it bales ,I would say it would not rap in to a bale ( have a look at at a You Tube video ,),you could mix it with rice straw ,that I would say would hold together ,a labor intensive job and it would drop the protein and energy value of the feed. 

What we do,and could be better for you, is make bagged silage , we use  nappier grass cut and wilted for 24 hours then put though a shredder ,a bag weighs about 25-30 kg ,you can see a sample ,that is longer than some I have seen/made  ,but cattle eat it ok .

Around here   bagged maize silage is made it is almost an industry ,farmers grow the crop for chopping in to silage,one 25 kg bag is sold for 55-65 baht /bag .

The plastic bags are brought locally 56 baht/kg about 30 bags /kg ,feed sacks are used on the out side.

We are feeding maize silage ,mixing it with our grass silage ,this year being so dry we are down 45% on our own silage , we are paying 60 baht/bag ,not doing the farm profits any good ,but we have no choice ,certainly better than feeding rice straw   

[Speedo1968]

Two nights ago, Saturday 30 November saw smoke from definite crop burning, 50km south and about 2-5km west of Khon Kaen.    Dark enough to be that from cane but people also burn rice stubble.