Motorcycle hits bicycle: who is at fault?

[Sheryl]

What is Thai law on this?

 

Daughter of my Cambodian handyman/gardener was bicycling home from school and another student driving a motorcycle very fast hit her. Totalled the bicycle and injured the girl but luckily not seriously. Motorcyclist also not seriously hurt, some damage to moto.

 

The motorcyclist is demanding money which seems outrageous to me. (1) they were driving too fast  and (2) I would expect that in a motorcycle vs bicycle collision motorcycle would automatically be liable.

 

Anyone know Thai law on this?

[NanLaew]

The Thai motorcyclist is also a student who has not yet reached the age of legal responsibility. His parents are still responsible so cops won't be overly interested here. How are these demands for money manifesting themselves? One-on-one with the your gardeners daughter? Either way, a doubt a kid can demand anything... yes, I know it's Thailand and the 'victim' here is Cambodian but maybe someone needs to speak with the motorcyclists parents?

[OneMoreFarang]

I don't know the answer but I find your assumptions a little strange.

When is too fast too fast? Did anybody measure their speed? I don't think looking at them and thinking "they are too fast" is good enough.

Why should the motorcycle automatically be liable? I.e. maybe the bicycle was suddenly wobbling from side to side on the street.

 

Obviously I don't know what happened. But without knowing all the facts I think it's strange to blame the motorcycle driver alone.

[Chazar]

37 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I would expect that in a motorcycle vs bicycle collision motorcycle would automatically be liable.

why on earth would you  think that? does liability not enter into it?

[Number 6]

1. It's Thailand the foreigner is at fault.

 

2. It's a civilized country - smaller the vehicle the greater the right of way. Pedestrians most of all.

 

What do you think?

 

- who hit whom? Appears the Moto hit the bicycle.

 

- Was the bicycle hit in the rear?

 

- was anyone crossing traffic and should yield?

 

- above but presumably moto coming so fast as to be unseen to react in time.

 

 

At face value it would appear the moto at fault imo.

[Chazar]

Just now, Number 6 said:

It's Thailand the foreigner is at fault.

nonsense, the  Thai who hits you might try this bs  on but its  just the  normal procedure

[Chazar]

1 minute ago, Number 6 said:

It's a civilized country - smaller the vehicle the greater the right of way. Pedestrians most of all.

even more nonsense

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The Thai motorcyclist is also a student who has not yet reached the age of legal responsibility. His parents are still responsible so cops won't be overly interested here. How are these demands for money manifesting themselves? One-on-one with the your gardeners daughter? Either way, a doubt a kid can demand anything... yes, I know it's Thailand and the 'victim' here is Cambodian but maybe someone needs to speak with the motorcyclists parents?

The parents are the ones demanding the money.

 

There is a meeting tomorrow at the school about it hence my desire to understand the legal aspect.

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

1. It's Thailand the foreigner is at fault.

 

2. It's a civilized country - smaller the vehicle the greater the right of way. Pedestrians most of all.

 

What do you think?

 

- who hit whom? Appears the Moto hit the bicycle.

 

- Was the bicycle hit in the rear?

 

- was anyone crossing traffic and should yield?

 

- above but presumably moto coming so fast as to be unseen to react in time.

 

 

At face value it would appear the moto at fault imo.

 

The Moto hit the bicycle.

 

The bicycle had  turned right from left lane to go into the driveway. No other vehicle in sight when she started the turn. It is a very quiet country road.

 

The motorcycle came roaring up while she was still in the middle of the road. Honked but did not slow down, the girl was afraid to move forward or back when the moto honked not knowing what the moto would do so stayed still (seems sensible to me - enable the moto to gauge her position and go around her).

 

Moto despite having seen her did not slow down. Crashed right into her hitting broadside. Moto was not driving in the left lane but rather near the center of the road.

 

No witnesses though so we cannot prove she did not turn abruptly right in front of the moto (which still shouldn't have been in the center of the road I think).

 

I doubt anyone is much up for trying to wade through the minutiae of which vehicle was exactly where, though. I just thought there might be an automatic rule or cultural norm when it is motorcycle vs bicycle. There is in Cambodia, the moto is automatically at fault. Likewise car vs moto, the car is.

[KhunBENQ]

Motorbike properly taxed/insured?

Age of student on motorbike?

Student has driving license?

(and even if and age 15 to 18 the motorbike most not be bigger than 110 ccm)

 

If family of student is "hiso", forget above questions.

 

Counter and demand compensation from the motorbike rider.

(discretely offer police a fair share)

Edited November 27, 2019 by KhunBENQ

[ExpatOilWorker]

I had a similar experience, except it was a car vs. a motorcycle. Both were a really at fault and nobody was responsible. Light damage to both vehicles. I matched their claim for compensation and at the end, after about an hour or so, we shake hands and went each to our own.

Maybe try that strategy and ask for compensation for the girl.

 

In general, the longer you can draw it out, week or months, the lower the expectation for any compensation will drop. 

[Sheryl]

21 minutes ago, Chazar said:

why on earth would you  think that? does liability not enter into it?

In many countries liability is automatically ascribed to the motorcycle or car in a collision with a bicycle or pedestrian. This is so in the US and also in Cambodia.

 

May or may not be like that in Thailand, this is what I am trying to ascertain. Both the law and normative practice.

 

[Sheryl]

10 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Motorbike properly taxed/insured?

Age of student on motorbike?

Student has driving license?

(and even if and age 15 to 18 the motorbike most not be bigger than 110 ccm)

 

If family of student is "hiso", forget above questions.

 

I don't know if taxed/insured.  The driver did NOT have a license.

 

Not remotely hiso. Lower middle class rural people.

[tifino]

• if a moving vehicle collides with a stationary vehicle
• and the moving vehicle was actually capable of avoiding an accident, by slowing or stopping; especially as she was honking, therefore fully aware of the stopped vehicle ahead...

 

well, it seems obvious to me 

[thequietman]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I don't know if taxed/insured.  The driver did NOT have a license.

 

Not remotely hiso. Lower middle class rural people.

No licence, tell them to sod off. Really.

 

As mentioned a counter claim for driving a motorcycle illegally and hitting the cyclist. Nationality doesn't come into this. Stand firm.

[cyril sneer]

i've not read the story in full but the Cambodian is in the wrong, for obvious reasons

[sunnyboy2018]

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

In many countries liability is automatically ascribed to the motorcycle or car in a collision with a bicycle or pedestrian. This is so in the US and also in Cambodia.

 

May or may not be like that in Thailand, this is what I am trying to ascertain. Both the law and normative practice.

 

Not in the UK. Increasingly cyclists are being prosecuted for a variety of traffic transgressions.

[Isaanbiker]

16 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I don't know if taxed/insured.  The driver did NOT have a license.

 

Not remotely hiso. Lower middle class rural people.

Sheryl, if the rider didn't have a license the rider of the motorbike is at fault.

 

   Please tell the girl to see a doctor and complain about very serious back pain, or similar. 

 

No matter if there's a meeting with the school, make sure that the license less rider has injured an innocent girl on a bicycle and ask for a huge sum.

 

   If you don't come to an agreement at school, the cops will try to solve that issue and then it's getting complicated.

 

   

Who pays the cop first, is usually the winner.

 

    Tell her to see a doctor now, or early morning tomorrow.

 

    The motorbike rider needs a license, by not having one, the motorbike rider would automatically be at fault.

 

   Make a huge bill for a new bicycle, the pain, the medicine, the consultation of a clinic, etc and present that tomorrow at the meeting.

 

  make sure that you come with her, if she's alone they'd have the better cards.

 

    Why is it at a school and not at a neutral place? The rider might have a daddy or mom who's a teacher at this school.

 

   Please be polite ( I know that I don't have to tell you that), well dressed and make sure that they are aware that they are not dealing with a little stupid girl from Cambodia now.

 

    The motorbike hit the bicycle, not vice versa. And riders of motorbikes should always be able to stop to prevent an accident.

 

  Best of luck for you guys tomorrow. Please make sure that they don't pay a cop off and change the whole story. 

 

  No license= guilty. 

 

   

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Isaanbiker

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Not in the UK. Increasingly cyclists are being prosecuted for a variety of traffic transgressions.

 

OK. But the question remains: what about Thailand?

[kingdong]

53 minutes ago, Chazar said:

why on earth would you  think that? does liability not enter into it?

They tried that stunt in UK where if any accident between motor vehicle and bicycle the motorist was automatically guilty,it got thrown out.

[Sheryl]

16 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

Sheryl, if the rider didn't have a license the rider of the motorbike is at fault.

 

   Please tell the girl to see a doctor and complain about very serious back pain, or similar. 

 

No matter if there's a meeting with the school, make sure that the license less rider has injured an innocent girl on a bicycle and ask for a huge sum.

 

   If you don't come to an agreement at school, the cops will try to solve that issue and then it's getting complicated.

 

   

Who pays the cop first, is usually the winner.

 

    Tell her to see a doctor now, or early morning tomorrow.

 

    The motorbike rider needs a license, by not having one, the motorbike rider would automatically be at fault.

 

   Make a huge bill for a new bicycle, the pain, the medicine, the consultation of a clinic, etc and present that tomorrow at the meeting.

 

  make sure that you come with her, if she's alone they'd have the better cards.

 

    Why is it at a school and not at a neutral place? The rider might have a daddy or mom who's a teacher at this school.

 

   Please be polite ( I know that I don't have to tell you that), well dressed and make sure that they are aware that they are not dealing with a little stupid girl from Cambodia now.

 

    The motorbike hit the bicycle, not vice versa. And riders of motorbikes should always be able to stop to prevent an accident.

 

  Best of luck for you guys tomorrow. Please make sure that they don't pay a cop off and change the whole story. 

 

  No license= guilty. 

 

   

 

 

Thanks. I am not in the country at present so will not be there. Which may be just as well.

 

The girl was already seen, examined and treated at the hospital. And I (and they) are not up for playing a game with exaggerated injuries. She has some real (fortunately not major) injuries and legitimately incurred some medical costs for which we have receipt and the bicycle is destroyed.

 

It is not huge sums at issue here so doubt it would be with their while paying off police. Also would expect they'd be afraid to bring police into it given no license.

 

The family does not have anyone on staff at the school. I am satisfied with the school as a neutral place and also with having the first round of talks there. It is a good school and the girl's teacher has always been very nice and very fair in dealings with the family.

[scubascuba3]

41 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I just thought there might be an automatic rule or cultural norm when it is motorcycle vs bicycle. There is in Cambodia, the moto is automatically at fault. Likewise car vs moto, the car is.

I've heard Thais think this also so whoever plays arbitrator may think the same.

 

Girls word against motorbike riders word so she can maintain its his fault and going too fast. No one can prove either way, so hopefully it will be dropped. I'm not sure having a falang there will help her case

[EricTh]

The Cambodian gardener is very poor and it's difficult enough for them to come to Thailand and work in a foreign land with meagre salary.

 

The motorcyclist is unreasonable in demanding money from a poor girl who is probably struggling to earn money for their daily food.

 

Motorcyclist is the one should pay for damaging the bicycle and injuring the poor girl. I always slow down in small lanes so as not to hit anybody.

 

I've seen many Thai motorcyclists revving in small lanes as if he owns the road.

 

Bring the case to the police station.

Edited November 27, 2019 by EricTh

[Lacessit]

First question I would ask at any meeting is show me the driving licence of the motorcycle rider, then show me the insurance certificate. If neither is forthcoming, tell the parents they will need a very good lawyer. Pay nothing.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Anyone know Thai law on this?

Ask to see the student drivers ID, tax, insurance and driving licence and cc of the M/c.

My bet is the m/c driver was underage and/or no D/L.

End of story.

 

(needs to be over age 15 for under 110cc, over age 18 for over 110cc.)

Edited November 27, 2019 by BritManToo

[Isaanbiker]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Thanks. I am not in the country at present so will not be there. Which may be just as well.

 

The girl was already seen, examined and treated at the hospital. And I (and they) are not up for playing a game with exaggerated injuries. She has some real (fortunately not major) injuries and legitimately incurred some medical costs for which we have receipt and the bicycle is destroyed.

 

It is not huge sums at issue here so doubt it would be with their while paying off police. Also would expect they'd be afraid to bring police into it given no license.

 

The family does not have anyone on staff at the school. I am satisfied with the school as a neutral place and also with having the first round of talks there. It is a good school and the girl's teacher has always been very nice and very fair in dealings with the family.

They don't want the cops because the ride rhad no license. So how could the girl on her bicycle be at fault? 

 

   I hope it all goes well for her. I knock on wood. 

[Isaanbiker]

7 minutes ago, EricTh said:

The Cambodian gardener is very poor and it's difficult enough for them to come to Thailand and work in a foreign land with meagre salary.

 

The motorcyclist is unreasonable in demanding money from a poor girl who is probably struggling to earn money for their daily food.

 

Motorcyclist is the one should pay for damaging the bicycle and injuring the poor girl. I always slow down in small lanes so as not to hit anybody.

 

I've seen many Thai motorcyclists revving in small lanes as if he owns the road.

 

Bring the case to the police station.

The warning alone to involve cops should be enough to change their thinking in a positive way for the poor Cambodian girl .

 

Let's face it here and now. Thais look down at people from countries like Cambodia, without even looking into a mirror.

 

  Time to show them that they are so wrong. 

[Moonlover]

The only reference I can find in the Thai Traffic Laws reads as follows:

 

Title 3 Use of roadways.

 

Section 32.  The driver shall be careful not hit pedestrians and may use the horn if necessary. The driver shall be especially careful with children, elderly persons and disabled persons.

 

My note. 'The driver' includes a motorcyclist.

 

Full rules attached. Good luck.

Thai Traffic Laws.pdf

[bwpage3]

I think KhunBenq is on to something.

 

Many students do NOT have drivers licenses

 

I would ask they they produce proof of licence, registration and insurance

 

The law states you must be in control of a motor vehicle at all times. If a motorcycle hit a bicyclists this does not appear to be the case.

 

 

[Sheryl]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Ask to see the student drivers ID, tax, insurance and driving licence and cc of the M/c.

My bet is the m/c driver was underage and/or no D/L.

End of story.

 

(needs to be over age 15 for under 110cc, over age 18 for over 110cc.)

She is around 13-14. No license.

 

I have no idea re tax & insurance on the moto.

 

But my question was really what is the norm here when it is moto vs bicycle. Are the 2 vehicles treated equally i.e. same as if it had been 2 motos that collided or is there a greater liability ascribed to the moto.As is the case in many places.