More foreign English teachers set to be hired as Thais aim for better than basic English

[Prairieboy]

They will never learn English, even with a native English speaking teacher, unless they use it, or attempt to use it, outside of the classroom.  Students are so afraid of making a mistake and losing 'face' that the extent of their 'outside the classroom' usage is confined to saying "Good Morning" regardless of the time of day.  My wife's business is within 150 m of the local school.  After school, about 4 PM, many of the kids walk past and say "Good Morning"!

[Leonard Thong]

Singapore values experience teachers even when they do not have a degree. The government pays well as good teachers are the pillars of society in building an educated work force. I worked as a mentor in a government educational institutes to guide teachers till I retired. 

Unfortunately, the older generations like myself (except for the richer families in the 1950) do not have the finances to pursue a university degree. These seniors have excellent work attitude, good networking skills and can deliver any given task.

Singapore spoken English is without the British or American slang and is clearly understood by all. One good example is our late PM, Lee Kuan Yew who is well respected by many leaders when he presents his views.

My Thai wife does not have the common ascent of that Thai slang that is commonly heard and travels overseas independently using English. Her English proficiency is way above any university graduate because she makes an effort to learn it in structured curriculum. 

A person with high paper qualifications may not be a good teacher, it is the dedicated teacher who will succeed. They say teaching is a "Calling", to choose teaching you can never be rich.

It is sad to see Thai students learning English through rote memory without any understanding and love for the language.

 

 

[ubon farang]

16 hours ago, balo said:

 

The Filipino teachers I know personally in Bangkok earn around 20 to 24k baht. And some of them do not have any degrees. I don't think any Filipino would accept a salary as low as 9000. 

Well I  am afraid my man my friend who is a Thai teacher here and she has Filipino teachers as friends and teach at same school  That is what she was told by this teacher who is Filipino. So I am taking her word on it.  Mind you its a pvt school not government You know it amazes me though They wont let Falang Teach with no degrees but Filipinos they let Can you explain that to me Just curious. No worries I guess if they can get away with it but somebody must be pulliing some strings somewhere

[ubon farang]

1 hour ago, Leonard Thong said:

Singapore values experience teachers even when they do not have a degree. The government pays well as good teachers are the pillars of society in building an educated work force. I worked as a mentor in a government educational institutes to guide teachers till I retired. 

Unfortunately, the older generations like myself (except for the richer families in the 1950) do not have the finances to pursue a university degree. These seniors have excellent work attitude, good networking skills and can deliver any given task.

Singapore spoken English is without the British or American slang and is clearly understood by all. One good example is our late PM, Lee Kuan Yew who is well respected by many leaders when he presents his views.

My Thai wife does not have the common ascent of that Thai slang that is commonly heard and travels overseas independently using English. Her English proficiency is way above any university graduate because she makes an effort to learn it in structured curriculum. 

A person with high paper qualifications may not be a good teacher, it is the dedicated teacher who will succeed. They say teaching is a "Calling", to choose teaching you can never be rich.

It is sad to see Thai students learning English through rote memory without any understanding and love for the language.

 

 

Well said my man. Sometimes teachers with no degrees are better teachers than ones that do have degrees I call it communication and if you have great communication with students everybody wins. Notice i said some teachers with degrees are not good at teaching and then you get some that are. I have a friend a Falang he teaches in Thailand. He has a degree but the crazy part is he has a degree in accounting. So tell me when does an accountant learn how to teach kids but he has a degree that is all that matters in Thailand.

[jaffas21]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:23 PM, miamiman123 said:

Start P1 students early

hire older teachers not the young ones 

teach English no games in class!!

this is what’s wrong now!!!!

 

well sadly  the games and activities are worse with P1 -3 however, native speakers make a difference. But you will find some kids are in school 6 or 7 days a week. My analysis of the situation tells me one thing. The schools know this so are making school fun to compensate for none at home. Disagree if you want, but ive seen two months rehearsal for sports day and currently one month of activities for christmas.

 

I asked are these the kids who are best at dancing as I couldn't believe it. No, I was told its the ones who want to go (i.e bunk off class)

[DrTuner]

3 hours ago, Leonard Thong said:

Singapore spoken English is without the British or American slang and is clearly understood by all.

Singlish is awful.

[ChipButty]

2 hours ago, ubon farang said:

Well I  am afraid my man my friend who is a Thai teacher here and she has Filipino teachers as friends and teach at same school  That is what she was told by this teacher who is Filipino. So I am taking her word on it.  Mind you its a pvt school not government You know it amazes me though They wont let Falang Teach with no degrees but Filipinos they let Can you explain that to me Just curious. No worries I guess if they can get away with it but somebody must be pulliing some strings somewhere

Is it some thing to do with being in the Asean region?

[RedPill]

The headline suggests a way forward, not like the headlines for the past 5 years (with the mantra Thai teach Thai to teach English)

 

That's all good, however it pans out ... but forward, not backward, all that counts!

 

It's refreshing to see headlines like this in the news.

[Snow Leopard]

On 12/3/2019 at 1:46 PM, donnacha said:

Sadly, "foreign English teachers" means very little unless you are talking about native English teachers from countries where English is the main language.

I like Filipinos, and I hear they are far cheaper and far less trouble than Western employees, but there is nothing standard about the English they speak. The same goes for Indians, Africans and West Indians.

I have often thought that native English speakers should do a better job of clubbing together and highlighting the difference. A natural flow with a language puts you on a different level for many jobs: teaching, marketing, copy-writing, sales etc.

Even 30 years ago, I thought it sad that innocent Thai kids were getting short-changed because their headmaster hired Poles to teach English on the basis that white faces would be enough to impress the parents.

They have a vast resource already of in country, Native and Natural English speakers. They are all on retirement visa extensions. I am sure many would gladly donate 10 hours a week for a few sheckles if asked. Obviously for younger kids. 

[Isaanbiker]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:29 PM, Somtamnication said:

Well, get rid of the agents and school directors; then we'll talk!

1. Get rid of the agencies that hire everybody, no matter how bad they are, including alcs, druggies and kiddie fiddlers.

    Some of these "English teachers" are even worse than Thai teachers who can't speak any English. 

There are agencies who create fake degrees for their "new teachers" to be able to get a Non- B.

2. A friend is working for an agency that doesn't pay any insurance, no sick leave days, no business leave.

 

    His contract is totally against Thai law, but the agency doesn't give a flying one about it. 

 

    2. Stop hiring Filipinos on fake degrees who can't even have a normal conversation with a good English speaking person.

 

   3. Change the whole system, let students and teachers fail. And then we can start to talk! 

 

 

  

  

 

[RedPill]

So as a non-native, English first language person, how can I best start to teach English in Thailand?

[zydeco]

54 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

I am sure many would gladly donate 10 hours a week for a few sheckles if asked. Obviously for younger kids. 

Probably don't want a lot of these old guys around kids.

[Snow Leopard]

3 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Probably don't want a lot of these old guys around kids.

Good point. Is there a vetting process in place currently?

[tifino]

Tutor's Cheat Sheet, for the University English Entrance Exam 

 

 

[simon43]

18 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Probably don't want a lot of these old guys around kids.

Oh yes I forgot.  All male teachers become pedophiles when they reach 50 years old.... ????

[cyril sneer]

8 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Oh yes I forgot.  All male teachers become pedophiles when they reach 50 years old.... ????

not all, I’m 43

[ThomasThBKK]

https://www.ft.com/content/bc8f9c5c-12a3-11ea-a225-db2f231cfeae?segmentId=09d3ed8b-33db-132b-eb60-c9f2617cc2e5 

 

FT article from today about the issues of having to listen to native speakers 

????

[DrTuner]

10 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

https://www.ft.com/content/bc8f9c5c-12a3-11ea-a225-db2f231cfeae?segmentId=09d3ed8b-33db-132b-eb60-c9f2617cc2e5 

 

FT article from today about the issues of having to listen to native speakers 

????

Dunno why it's so hard, just go get a pound of crisps with the lorry. Or a kilo of chips with the truck. All you need is Ancient English<->Modern English translation.

[gamini]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:46 PM, donnacha said:

Sadly, "foreign English teachers" means very little unless you are talking about native English teachers from countries where English is the main language.

I like Filipinos, and I hear they are far cheaper and far less trouble than Western employees, but there is nothing standard about the English they speak. The same goes for Indians, Africans and West Indians.

I have often thought that native English speakers should do a better job of clubbing together and highlighting the difference. A natural flow with a language puts you on a different level for many jobs: teaching, marketing, copy-writing, sales etc.

Even 30 years ago, I thought it sad that innocent Thai kids were getting short-changed because their headmaster hired Poles to teach English on the basis that white faces would be enough to impress the parents.

I hope they don't hire them locally because most of the native English living in this country seem to have strong regional accents, sometimes difficult to understand. My Thai wife speaks better English than most of them. Many Indians I have met speak the Queen's English and they will be be the best people to teach English here because they will be a lot cheaper than employing Westerners. The government could afford to employ a lot more. 

[KhaoYai]

18 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Thank-you for the courage in stating why Thai kids can't speak good English ????

I didn't say that and you know that very well. I'm saying it doesn't help kids learn when they are taught the wrong version of a word - which may be questioned later. And just to be clear - by wrong I mean something other than the Oxford English word.

[KhaoYai]

On 12/4/2019 at 12:04 PM, BigStar said:

and British English, with its laughably antiquated spelling, even less relevant. American English is most desirable in absence of an official standard,

I think you're missing the point.  If, whenever it was decided, the International Language was American English, I would have no problem with that. What I'm talking about is teachers diverging from the agreed standard (and yes, there is one). This leads to confusion.

 

With reference to your use of 'antiquated' spelling, I can't agree.  On the face of it, American spelling looks more logical in some cases but when you look further into it, American English contains its own anomalies.  However, the use of a totally different word such as hood (bonnet), trunk (boot) and eraser (rubber), is bound to lead to confusion for pupils.

 

All languages develop and evolve. Some English spelling has changed over the years - hence the yearly dictionary revisions. The use of unnecessary grammar is also beginning to fade - i.e. 'an hotel' to 'a hotel'.

 

The most important thing to me is that all children learning English in a country where it is not the first language should be taught the same standard.

[KhaoYai]

On 12/4/2019 at 12:48 PM, DrTuner said:

Indeed, who needs a language of a small dying island in the Atlantic. 

Well you seem to, as you're writing it here.

 

By the way, how many mass shootings have you had in the USA this year to date?

[JAFO]

Learning the language means little if they do not speak it regularly. The problem I have witnessed in a few classes that I saw was that they are being taught English but the rest of the class communication is Thai. They write it on the board, say it poorly then move on.  You couple that with the student goes home to their family that speaks Thai so the English skill does not develop. 

 

When I took a Spanish language class years ago the instructor made everyone speak the language being taught as soon as you entered the class room. All questions spoken and answered in the language being learned.

 

Sadly another disservice is allowing teachers to teach English with a terrible accent. The Thai government wants to save money versus allowing quality English teachers to be hired. I would enjoy volunteering at a school but I do not want to go through the battle of work permit and all the documentation required. 

 

[GinBoy2]

The whole issue of 'native' speakers I think derives from the British among you.

 

English is the latin of the modern age, but comes in many variants

But at the end of the day the beauty of the English language, is despite those variants we can all understand each other.

 

Even between my Thai wife, who grew up in Chicago, and me as a Californian have differences. My soda is her pop.

 

But, we both speak English as our first language, as do many Indians, Philippino's, West Indians's etc, but with regional differences.

 

The problem with Thailand is, that they utilize a majority Thai teaching staff that in reality speak or read zero English...at least none that any of us would understand!  

[Moo 2]

The only way to get serious about learning a second language is to start teaching from age 4/5.

Obviously teachers have to be top notch at teaching. Our daughter who will graduate to be a teacher

in the next few months still cannot put two words together in English, and that has a lot do with the teacher.

[Stoker58]

I think it would be kinda fun if they hired most of the ‘native English’ speakers from Jamaica.

[DrTuner]

10 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Well you seem to, as you're writing it here.

 

By the way, how many mass shootings have you had in the USA this year to date?

I fancy myself as a fan of the country that drove the Brits away in 1781. My language skills, if any, stem from the best TV series ever produced in that country, Miami Vice. I reckon that's the way most of the world has learned English since Great Britain started to shrink into the Little Britain. Ze times of grandeur are far in the rear view mirror, everybody else except the island frozen in time has already noticed.

 

I haven't had any school shootings in the USA, but I take your remark as a salute to my acquired yankee twang. 

[gamini]

On 12/6/2019 at 9:50 AM, Moo 2 said:

The only way to get serious about learning a second language is to start teaching from age 4/5.

Obviously teachers have to be top notch at teaching. Our daughter who will graduate to be a teacher

in the next few months still cannot put two words together in English, and that has a lot do with the teacher.

I was lucky when I was a 4 year old kid in England. We had a French Cook and i had a French nanny. Consequently I speak fluent French. It helped me get some good jobs.

[DrTuner]

Just now, gamini said:

I was lucky when I was a 4 year old kid in England. We had a French Cook and i had a French nanny. Consequently I speak fluent French. It may get some good jobs.

You're set for a UN job. One of the oddballs where French is an advantage.

[Isaan Alan]

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Any decent native speaker can get triple the salary working in China. In my experience native speakers working in Thailand only do it for lifestyle, girlfriends or wives.

Add to that, the bureaucratic overkill that you need to go thru, including not being able to get a visa for teaching without leaving the the country if you are currently in Thailand. For instance schools must provide a GPS location sheet of where they are, as if the Thai bureaucracy doesn't know where there own schools are,  At one stage I considered working for a school here and went off to Laos with at least 50 pages of documents. In general they don't reimburse visa costs. medical exam costs or provide accommodation. China commonly does all that.

Filipino teachers are good with American accent fluency and work for 50% of the native speaker wage in China.  Sadly most Chinese parents don't want Asian or Asian-looking English teachers, Maybe Thais are less fussy.