Bottle Feeding

[macb]

My wife and I have a two month old Gorgeous daughter :

She is now 8 weeks old and the wife is breast feeding her.

But we want her to take bottle as well so that if she is left with me or the In-laws while we conduct business she could take milk from the bottle.

At the moment she will not accept the bottle and becomes very stressed, we are trying little and often.

Have any of you Mums out there got any tips, its al ong time since I raised a baby. We got Nan No 1 from the Doctor.

[think_too_mut]

My wife and I have a two month old Gorgeous daughter :

She is now 8 weeks old and the wife is breast feeding her.

But we want her to take bottle as well so that if she is left with me or the In-laws while we conduct business she could take milk from the bottle.

At the moment she will not accept the bottle and becomes very stressed, we are trying little and often.

Have any of you Mums out there got any tips, its al ong time since I raised a baby. We got Nan No 1 from the Doctor.

We had the opposite thing - our baby has never tasted mother's milk. The doctors call it "nipple effect".

I can't see what your problem is.

[GuestHouse]

What are you trying to bottle feed with?

My wife used a breast pump for the first bottles our children had. This had the advantage that it continued all the benefits of mother's milk while also freeing my wife's time. It was some months before we moved to formula, and then only as a stop gap.

If you want to move from breast milk to formula, then try breast milk in the bottle first and as time goes by dilute with formula to give your baby chance to become accustomed to the change.

[Boo]

Buy flow control teats & bottles as they help prevent the baby getting colic & also are supposed to be more like feeding from the breast than regualr bottled as they allow the baby to regulate the flow of milk as she does whilst on the breast.

Also don't discount the emotional bond a baby may feel whilst breastfeeding as well as the security aspect, if she is just held then may not feel the same security when someone other than mum is feeding her so try swaddling the baby whilst you feed her restricting her movement & arm control, this is proven to calm babies who are having difficulty feeding or settling for sleep. Babies like feeling wrapped up so swaddling is a good way of making her feel secure.

I also agree with gh suggetsion of your wife expressing milk. This expressed milk can also be frozen so your wife can "stock up" and it wont be so differnent for the baby whilst transitioning from breast to bottle.

Good luck with it.

[GuestHouse]

Just two more points.

Don't be tempted to use sugar in bottles to entice your baby to accept the bottle, doing so sets an expectation of sugar with longer term problems that that brings.

Also, don't ever underestimate one of the greatest benefits of breast feeding.. dad's can't do it. A great advantage at 3 in the morning.

[Boo]

such a man

[bina]

1. mom should not be in the same room ; have someone else try to feed the baby with formula not breast milk.

2.babies smell mom (no joke, they hear her voice/smell her, and want only titty). and many many babies wont take their mother's milk in a bottle for some reason....

try a different range of nipples.

3. in the baby house when we've had mothers going back to work and switching to bottle, some babies first had to get milk with a teaspoon or syringe and then gradually teach them to take a bottle. but they only took a bottle from the nannies or grandma. not papa and never mom.

some babies will refuse the bottle if held in the same position as the breastfeeding postiton, so try a different way, direction, more sitting up, etc. some babies u can fool them by setting them in your arm as if breastfeeding and then slipping nipple into mouth.

i did know one baby who never never agreed to take a bottle and his mother did go back to work so they did the next best thing. a friend of mom's who also just gave birth nursed the baby.

some suggestions from a kibbutz baby house nanny (nurse)(my finnish sister in law).

good luck

bina

[macb]

Buy flow control teats & bottles as they help prevent the baby getting colic & also are supposed to be more like feeding from the breast than regualr bottled as they allow the baby to regulate the flow of milk as she does whilst on the breast.

Also don't discount the emotional bond a baby may feel whilst breastfeeding as well as the security aspect, if she is just held then may not feel the same security when someone other than mum is feeding her so try swaddling the baby whilst you feed her restricting her movement & arm control, this is proven to calm babies who are having difficulty feeding or settling for sleep. Babies like feeling wrapped up so swaddling is a good way of making her feel secure.

I also agree with gh suggetsion of your wife expressing milk. This expressed milk can also be frozen so your wife can "stock up" and it wont be so differnent for the baby whilst transitioning from breast to bottle.

Good luck with it.

Can you get the flow control teats and bottles in THailand ?

[macb]

1. mom should not be in the same room ; have someone else try to feed the baby with formula not breast milk.

2.babies smell mom (no joke, they hear her voice/smell her, and want only titty). and many many babies wont take their mother's milk in a bottle for some reason....

try a different range of nipples.

3. in the baby house when we've had mothers going back to work and switching to bottle, some babies first had to get milk with a teaspoon or syringe and then gradually teach them to take a bottle. but they only took a bottle from the nannies or grandma. not papa and never mom.

some babies will refuse the bottle if held in the same position as the breastfeeding postiton, so try a different way, direction, more sitting up, etc. some babies u can fool them by setting them in your arm as if breastfeeding and then slipping nipple into mouth.

i did know one baby who never never agreed to take a bottle and his mother did go back to work so they did the next best thing. a friend of mom's who also just gave birth nursed the baby.

some suggestions from a kibbutz baby house nanny (nurse)(my finnish sister in law).

good luck

bina

Bina as usual you are a Hive of information thanks again and to your sister-in-law.

THanks to al the folks for responding so quickly:

I will be in the future observing things that go in the the Family Room here so to speak.

I have 2 boys in the UK but its a lot of years since they were babies.

[SweGuava]

Buy flow control teats & bottles as they help prevent the baby getting colic & also are supposed to be more like feeding from the breast than regualr bottled as they allow the baby to regulate the flow of milk as she does whilst on the breast.

Also don't discount the emotional bond a baby may feel whilst breastfeeding as well as the security aspect, if she is just held then may not feel the same security when someone other than mum is feeding her so try swaddling the baby whilst you feed her restricting her movement & arm control, this is proven to calm babies who are having difficulty feeding or settling for sleep. Babies like feeling wrapped up so swaddling is a good way of making her feel secure.

I also agree with gh suggetsion of your wife expressing milk. This expressed milk can also be frozen so your wife can "stock up" and it wont be so differnent for the baby whilst transitioning from breast to bottle.

Good luck with it.

Can you get the flow control teats and bottles in THailand ?

We had the same problem when we started with the bottle.

But, after changing to Pigeon (the brand) wide neck bottles with some kind of special teat that is supposed to be very similar to the mothers nipple, my daughter doesn't care if she gets the breast or the bottle.

I don't know, maybe we were just lucky, but it really works great for us. They are more expensive than the normal bottles, but at least for us it is totally worth it.

[chanchao]

> Also, don't ever underestimate one of the greatest benefits of

> breast feeding.. dad's can't do it. A great advantage at 3 in the morning.

Given the right hormones, men can most certainly lactate. So there's an option.

[macb]

Thought I would give an up-date:

Well a variety of Normal teats even some brought from UK and Bkk have failed :

Last Monday my wife put the daughter with her Mama , I was not in favour of this because I knew it would not work, the idea being she would get hungry and drink from bottle.

To cut a long stoy short it failed and on the evening of the 2nd day my daughter was brought back home. however I was in Town yesterday and found in the local Supermkt something New in the Baby Section:

I can only describe the Teat at the shape of a mouth piece for a Wind intrument called a Recorder, I though well I will take these and try:

On returning home and after sterilization the wife gave the new teat to the daughter and she started suckling YIPEEEEEEEEEEEE : Fresh made orange juice and water

On the milk side she is suckling but I think its a case of getting used to the milk, so improvements being made.

At the moment we are using NAN H.A. 1 which the Doctor recommended plus its dearer haha

Has anyone any other suggestions on the milk powder side. Or is it trial and error, the idea now being to get her of Breast milk as its making wife very tired and of course moody runs in line with it as well.

[leisurely]

To be honest MacB, I would stick with what Gloria is happiest with. I was advised with both of my daughters not to mess around with their milk. ONce you find a brand you are happy with don't change it. It is only for a while longer that she needs powder anyway. Certainly in UK and western Europe the recommendation is not to start cows milk until 12 months babies under that age lack an enzyme to digest it. Also, my eyes popped out when I read about orange juice and water. I am sure that my girls never had citrus fruit until about a year too. On the other hand I think we are a bit brainwashed in the west. My mum was horrified that my eldest didn't start solids until 4 months. She happily gave me weetabix from about 3 weeks old. Too many experts I think.

[macb]

To be honest MacB, I would stick with what Gloria is happiest with. I was advised with both of my daughters not to mess around with their milk. ONce you find a brand you are happy with don't change it. It is only for a while longer that she needs powder anyway. Certainly in UK and western Europe the recommendation is not to start cows milk until 12 months babies under that age lack an enzyme to digest it. Also, my eyes popped out when I read about orange juice and water. I am sure that my girls never had citrus fruit until about a year too. On the other hand I think we are a bit brainwashed in the west. My mum was horrified that my eldest didn't start solids until 4 months. She happily gave me weetabix from about 3 weeks old. Too many experts I think.

Thanks for the input, well we will try different powders till finding the right one: She loves the Fresh orange juice ( Made from frsh oranges ourselves) and water and is eating banana with Sililac baby food. The wife is Snappy because not getting enough sleep due to Breast Feeding, but I found a Teat the daughter likes I am hoping we can move on slowly:

My problem here is dealing with the Culture on rasing babies, To many village ladies throwing in there penny worth, a lot of them and one Farang : mmmmmmmmmmmm God I need a Holiday lol

[leisurely]

TBH, she'll be right. So many Thais and I doubt they started solids on organic baby rice! Go with the flow.

Have a good weekend

Leisurely

[samran]

such a man

such a very, very wise man!

[Rhys]

It maybe... if you are going to supplement with formula, you just have to experiment with the brands that are out there now.. Remember.. 60/40 whey to casein ratio is the breast milk standard... Then.. possibly, since this is an Asia children.. the old lactose intolerance gambit comes into play.. then it is time for a soy formula.. and again, you will find that most are loaded with sucrose.

Nipples.... NUK they are shaped like mom during suckling...

Next, if you don't want to supplement... then the wife has to express her BM and store it...at times it maybe practical..

Last unofficial advice... the Youngster should be Breast feed for at least 6 months.. this way the youngster has aquired at the IgG, IgA... factors.... and mom has bonded, and her uterus has contracted.. Fun for you dad.. The youngster will have less allergies...will be healthier... and most of all it is naturally original convience food.. Do you know how much it cost to formula feed your infant for one year... even while you introduce foods at 9 months?

And this colic business..make sure baby has proper feeding techiques... when bottle feeding... Colic is a catch all for general infant feeding disorder..

Actually, many of the infant formula companies have good information sources on feeding recommendations.. of course they will want you to select their formula.. but the information is general spot on..

Cheer.. Trust the sleeping pattern are established...

[Neeranam]

Thought I would give an up-date:

Well a variety of Normal teats even some brought from UK and Bkk have failed :

Last Monday my wife put the daughter with her Mama , I was not in favour of this because I knew it would not work, the idea being she would get hungry and drink from bottle.

To cut a long stoy short it failed and on the evening of the 2nd day my daughter was brought back home. however I was in Town yesterday and found in the local Supermkt something New in the Baby Section:

I can only describe the Teat at the shape of a mouth piece for a Wind intrument called a Recorder, I though well I will take these and try:

On returning home and after sterilization the wife gave the new teat to the daughter and she started suckling YIPEEEEEEEEEEEE : Fresh made orange juice and water

On the milk side she is suckling but I think its a case of getting used to the milk, so improvements being made.

At the moment we are using NAN H.A. 1 which the Doctor recommended plus its dearer haha

Has anyone any other suggestions on the milk powder side. Or is it trial and error, the idea now being to get her of Breast milk as its making wife very tired and of course moody runs in line with it as well.

You are very lucky having women around - leave the whole thing up to them. I'm sure they know how to look after kids. Don't confuse them with how it's done in the UK etc and your baby will be fine.

[macb]

When I say ladies helping there not helping us, just giving there views on ohw this and that should be done:

Typical day for me yesterday up early before the wife and daughter about 0545 hrs cleaned the Oven then Did the Household laundry, then washed baby clothes by hand, then coffee, then cleaned downstairs Shower Room:

Now am I lucky

I know I would make a good wife

[Heng]

Buy flow control teats & bottles as they help prevent the baby getting colic & also are supposed to be more like feeding from the breast than regualr bottled as they allow the baby to regulate the flow of milk as she does whilst on the breast.

Also don't discount the emotional bond a baby may feel whilst breastfeeding as well as the security aspect, if she is just held then may not feel the same security when someone other than mum is feeding her so try swaddling the baby whilst you feed her restricting her movement & arm control, this is proven to calm babies who are having difficulty feeding or settling for sleep. Babies like feeling wrapped up so swaddling is a good way of making her feel secure.

I also agree with gh suggetsion of your wife expressing milk. This expressed milk can also be frozen so your wife can "stock up" and it wont be so differnent for the baby whilst transitioning from breast to bottle.

Good luck with it.

Can you get the flow control teats and bottles in THailand ?

You can get most of the more popular brands (Avent, Evenflo, etc.) at any Central or Mall group department store. You can also order gear through babycenter.com

[think_too_mut]

Also don't discount the emotional bond a baby may feel whilst breastfeeding as well as the security aspect, if she is just held then may not feel the same security when someone other than mum is feeding her so try swaddling the baby whilst you feed her restricting her movement & arm control, this is proven to calm babies who are having difficulty feeding or settling for sleep. Babies like feeling wrapped up so swaddling is a good way of making her feel secure.

Sure, even without breast feeding.

[sylvafern]

Young babies shouldn't be given citrus (including fresh fruit juice) until at least 6 months as their intestinal tract is too immature to cope with it. Experts are experts for a reason and I don't think certain advice should be ignored. Do a quick search and every website will say the same thing. In fact, some even say a breast-feeding mother shouldn't drink orange juice as the baby could also have gastric problems due to dringking citrus through the mother's milk. The fact that your baby is not drinking formula could be related to the fact she is drinking orange juice - if her stomach is upset by the juice, then she's not going to want the formula. By the way, even at 6 months when juice can be introduced, you should be diluting it one part juice to ten parts water for fresh juice (this is what UK Dept of Health suggests).

Maybe she doesn't like the formula you are using. When my son was young, I treid about four or five types before finding one he really liked which was Enfalac. Great because you can also get it in single serving sachets which are brill when out and about for the day. To get him drinking formula I ended up tricking him. When he was breastfeeding I would have a warm bottle of formula waiting and when he moved his mouth off the nipple for a break, I quickly slipped in the bottle (or nudged it in without him knowing). After 3 or 4 days he happily took the bottle whenever he needed it and I finally had some freedom! I did this at about 11 weeks as I went back to work when he was 13 weeks old.

[Stephen Cleary]

Starting baby on the bottle

Well, it is highly advisable to start your baby on the bottle when he doesn't go to sleep as he should.

If, after putting him to bed, he just continues to scream his head off - just slip a tiny bitta your best Scotch in to the bottle. He'll be so irritable and sleepy that he wont realize his milk tastes weird.

Edited May 21, 2007 by stevesuphan

[Rhys]

Do check your information with your Pediatrician on feeding problems...

[macb]

THanks guys so much information coming in: THink I will let the daughter read it all lol:

Well yesterday I was playing with her having been outside for sometime with her, presented her the bottle and she suddenly guzzled 20 ml Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee: I think its catrching her at the right time, we will get there in the end I am sure:

I got two boys alrerady in the UK but that was a long time ago, this is my wifes 1st child and she has been told so many different things by ladies in the village, I think it confusses her sometimes certainlt makes her frustrated.

Like I said to her its our daughter so we do what we think best for her: Thats why I start Topic here because you guys are supportive for me and I can pass it on to the wife ( Specially the other Thai Mums that give there input)

I dont understand giving your baby to another ( Even if it is wifes mother) and let her scream hoping she takes bottle, its not in my culture to do this , so I found it upsetting :

Thanks again

[bina]

macb,

often a baby will take a bottle from anyone who is NOT the mother as the baby wants the mother's breast; its a trick we do in the baby house on kibbutz when a mother wants to move her baby to a bottle; often the grandmother or auntie (father doesnt always work out with the bottle either)or sister will come to give bottle and mommy will come to give breast but baby will refuse bottle from mommy or dad... they can smell their mother frm a mile away so a nervous mother hovering over dad while he tries to feed often doesnt work either.

orange juice is a big no no for allergy reasons but different countries have different rules/suggestions for eating foods

in israel we seem to be reversed from the states in starting with fresh mushy fruit like banana and apple and not cooked veggies etc...

also when babies are over the limit in screaming/fussing they also wont take a bottle and u have to wait until they are almost asleep and relaxed a bit before trying again.

[bina]

macb,

often a baby will take a bottle from anyone who is NOT the mother as the baby wants the mother's breast; its a trick we do in the baby house on kibbutz when a mother wants to move her baby to a bottle; often the grandmother or auntie (father doesnt always work out with the bottle either)or sister will come to give bottle and mommy will come to give breast but baby will refuse bottle from mommy or dad... they can smell their mother frm a mile away so a nervous mother hovering over dad while he tries to feed often doesnt work either.

orange juice is a big no no for allergy reasons but different countries have different rules/suggestions for eating foods

in israel we seem to be reversed from the states in starting with fresh mushy fruit like banana and apple and not cooked veggies etc...

also when babies are over the limit in screaming/fussing they also wont take a bottle and u have to wait until they are almost asleep and relaxed a bit before trying again.

[macb]

macb,

often a baby will take a bottle from anyone who is NOT the mother as the baby wants the mother's breast; its a trick we do in the baby house on kibbutz when a mother wants to move her baby to a bottle; often the grandmother or auntie (father doesnt always work out with the bottle either)or sister will come to give bottle and mommy will come to give breast but baby will refuse bottle from mommy or dad... they can smell their mother frm a mile away so a nervous mother hovering over dad while he tries to feed often doesnt work either.

orange juice is a big no no for allergy reasons but different countries have different rules/suggestions for eating foods

in israel we seem to be reversed from the states in starting with fresh mushy fruit like banana and apple and not cooked veggies etc...

also when babies are over the limit in screaming/fussing they also wont take a bottle and u have to wait until they are almost asleep and relaxed a bit before trying again.

once again you come up with the goods talk about Jack of All trades the orange juice has stopped which I didnt want her to have in the first place, this could be what has caaused the Blotchy red skin, but I think its the heat, my wife came back from letting her mama look at the little red blotches with a bunch of leaves to bathe the baby with and this apparently will take the blotches away, apparently its the heat.

I said if she is poorly she goes to doctors, she is at Docs on Saturday for 2nd injection so if not gone away then I will ask him to look.

[bina]

blotches could be prickly heat; usually, food allergies to strawberries, oranages, tomatoes will show up as diahreah and/or a colicky baby , or rash on cheeks, behind ears, stomach etc. if its heat, will be small dots all over, in general with general fussiness, not screaming jeebies type fuss.

all kind of leaves in the bath water do help and every country has its own leaves (my son was bathed in a tea of mallow leaves, it really helped... my mom thought it was wierd.)

thanx macb, that seems to be me jack of all trades and master of non ... but always glad to help.

bina

[macb]

I just want to thank everyone for there support and input over the weeks:

Gloria is on S 26 now well I am working on getting her drinking from the bottle, getting there slowly, but then the wife will give her breast milk when I finish bottle so making it hard work