The Government Doesn't Want Us Here

[Flutterby]

I began visiting Thailand 17 years ago and I have been living full time in the Kingdom now for almost two and a half years plus another year as a "trial run." To all who would listen (sorry if I have been a bore on the subject), I have been very positive about the country and encouraged people to visit and even to join me in retiring here. But now I have serious doubts, at least about living here.

 

It was either in 2017 or 2018 that the Thai government started requiring retirees to maintain a Thai bank account balance of 800,000 baht (about $26,000 in US dollars) in order to get the yearly visa extension. It could drop a bit during the year but had to be at that minimum for 3 months prior to the visa extension and 2 months afterward. I've recently heard that it's not enough to just put that money in the account and leave it there, you have to show that the account is actively getting money from abroad. There is supposedly a provision to show that you have at least that yearly total amount as regular transfers from abroad, but I've heard that some folks have had problems with that. As for me, I meet the qualifications all around so it's not a big issue.

 

In 2019, the Thai government has instituted a couple of new policies that are making it untenable or at least undesirable to continue to live in Thailand. The first of those policies is that foreigners living here have to report to immigration (form TM30) every time they return from a trip of more than 24 hours outside the province where they live, whether it's inside or outside Thailand. When we stay in a hotel or other accommodation in Thailand, the management makes a copy of our passport and reports our stay to immigration which, stupidly, assumes that the hotel is our new residence. On returning home, we have 24 hours to report that we are again living where we never stopped living. When we leave the country and return, we make a report with our address on it (form TM6) to immigration on arrival and physically hand it to them. They still require a TM30 within 24 hours. Here's at least part of the annoyance. The law states that it is the landlord who is supposed to file the TM30, not the resident, but it is the resident foreigner who has to pay the 800 baht fine (about $26 USD) if the form was not promptly filed on our behalf. Landlords have balked and many have refused to file the form. What do they care, they don't have to pay the fine.

 

The government has a web site where one can do the TM30 reporting but it has big problems. First, you have to register. I tried but after two and a half months was told my registration was rejected. Some people have been able to register and it's good for them. Even my landlord (an Australian fellow) was unable to register. Supposedly, a smartphone app will be coming someday to make the process simple. Well, this is Thailand, so I don't expect it to ever happen.

Lots of people and organizations have complained to the government about this regulation but nothing happens. I will have to go and spend the better part of a day at the huge immigration center here in Bangkok at the end of January so it will be "interesting" to see what happens.

 

The second new regulation that was thrust on us in 2019 is a requirement that we have an approved health insurance plan and that they won't extend the visa without it. In other words, get the plan or get out. My friend here is 79 years old and is self-insured. Here in Thailand, you cannot buy a health insurance plan if you are over 75 so I don't know what he is going to do when his visa expires at the same time as mine.

 

The government's stated reason for requiring ex-pats to have health insurance is that some visitors to the Kingdom have come here, had medical treatment, and left the country without paying their bill. I ask, who is more likely to do something like that, someone on a short-term visa (i.e. a tourist) or a retiree who lives here? The tourists don't have the health insurance requirement, at least not yet, just the retirees. Frankly, the government's explanation is BS. I think the health insurance companies paid off some in the government to institute such a requirement and are now starting to reap big benefits.

 

It is clear to me that the Thai government doesn't want us here but are too chicken<deleted> to say it. Either that or they are just too stupid to see that these policies will end up hurting Thailand economically. Already, many of the ex-pats living here have decided to no longer travel within Thailand because of the onerous reporting requirements. Hotels, restaurants, etc. are losing the money that would have been spent without the TM30 requirement.

 

Yeah, they don't want us here so I am considering leaving and I would discourage anyone from coming to live in Thailand.

[Matzzon]

he is going to change to a Non-O visa instead of an OA visa. Simple, and no need for more doomsday play and pretend stories.

[Lacessit]

There are always options. If I travel within Thailand, my Thai GF hands over her ID to any hotel I stay at. I am invisible. I only register a TM 30 when I return from abroad.

While the 800K baht requirement is annoying, I think the government became fed up with retirees who were rorting the system with BS income claims, based on false declarations at their embassies.

One should remember the countries who do not have Thailand's financial requirements may be equally attractive in terms of cost of living, but their infrastructure is decidedly inferior.

[sunnyboy2018]

The TM30 is a non issue. As for insurance-change your type of visa. As for 800k- you have the money. No need to panic.

[david555]

10 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

The TM30 is a non issue. As for insurance-change your type of visa. As for 800k- you have the money. No need to panic.

As for 800k- you have the money. No need to panic.

 

For now maybe….! as on a my country forum ,someone from Udon needed to show on top of that 800K he bring money in to Thailand or spending money besides the untouched 800K …. he thought they may be think he work …. and so it goes on …., question where they go stop …? (for a while  ...)

Edited December 10, 2019 by david555

[fourpack]

Another non news day. Please don't leave the door open when you depart.

[ukrules]

You don't need to do a TM30 yourself, anyone can do it on your behalf.

 

This phrase springs to mind when it comes to Thai bureaucracy "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

Edited December 10, 2019 by ukrules

[AlexRich]

Quite true. That’s why I’ll only ever pass through on my way to somewhere else .... and my expenditure goes with me. If you don’t have ties, like wife and family, there’s no reason to be there, and plenty of alternatives.

[Isaanbiker]

When we stay in a hotel or other accommodation in Thailand, the management makes a copy of our passport and reports our stay to immigration which, stupidly, assumes that the hotel is our new residence.

 

You've started to visit Thailand 17 years ago, and I settled down here 17 years ago and lived here since then. 

 

 Your rand about the TM 30 is useless because it doesn't affect us anymore. In the province where I live, it was never enforced.

 I don't understand your anger. 

 

It was always like that, and hotels have to report their guests to the Immigration. Nobody "stupidly assumes" that a hotel is our new address.

 

 All foreigners have a massive file at Chaeng Wattana; basically, all steps documented, and I don't have a problem with it.

 

Why should Thailand pay all the medical bills for foreigners who rather like to spend their money on booze and chicks, not thinking that getting older also means getting sick more often?

 

Would you please elaborate on how America or other countries are treating people who decide that they want to live there?

 

Is it more accessible there? I doubt it. 

 

I've heard stories of sick people who didn't get medical care in the US because they didn't have the right insurance. Is that fair? 

 

 If you read the news, you might know that almost all human trash from all around the world comes to Thailand. 

And too many of these creatures want to live here, no matter how. 

And these people come in all forms and shapes.
 
From brutal criminals to pedophiles, you can find them all here. 

 

Even when I'm not okay with the "new government," it's apparent that they're trying to clean up, and if they can get rid of all the pedos and other criminals, it would be fantastic.

 

How do you find out who the good guys and who the bad guys are? The good guys have to suffer because too many bad guys make them look suspicious.

 

 If you like to go back, nobody will please you to stay. Yes, the times have changed, and the country isn't as easy going as it once was.

 

 I work here, pay my taxes, and still enjoy the hot climate, the people, my Thai family, including the extended family.

 

  There aren't money hunting relatives who give me the reason to stay away from them, I'm part of their lives, and they're part of my life.

 

 I'm aware that many Thai people started to dislike foreigners for apparent reasons. 

 

Please watch the news, read the newspapers and watch TV.

 

 Should you decide to leave, have a great flight. 

[Isaanbiker]

47 minutes ago, fourpack said:

Another non news day. Please don't leave the door open when you depart.

And please do not open the plane door when it gets too hot. 

[NCC1701A]

2 hours ago, Flutterby said:

It is clear to me that the Thai government doesn't want us here but are too chicken<deleted> to say it.

every time i go to immigration i am treated like a VIP.

thai neighbors love me. 

cannot be easier and nothing has changed for me in 6 years. 

FOR ME if i did not read Thai visa i would completely unaware anything has changed.

 

[White Christmas13]

I used to hate Thai bashers but Thai apologist are worst, I can't name any names but you know who you are just because you have a decent income form overseas don't bash the guys who are struggling.

[BestB]

You only partly correct   Thai government does not want poor foreigners but wants wealthy ones. Thailand no longer needs just anyone , they are now picky and want only those who can afford it .

 

the reporting and all the rest was always the law just not enforced and with growing number of tourists and growing number of problems it is now enforced .

 

if you want to generalise and say they do not want us here than it started 15 years ago not 3 years ago .

 

15 years ago everyone did 30 day visa runs , endlessly and some did not even have to go, for extra 500 baht only your passport went 

Edited December 10, 2019 by BestB

[Gweiloman]

OP, did you read about the Thai wife of a fellow American who had her visa application denied? I think the US govt wants Thais in US than the other way round. 
I would welcome it if Thailand imposed the same requirements on US citizens that the US govt imposes on Thais. That would be fair, don’t you think?

[Yinn]

2 hours ago, Flutterby said:

Yeah, they don't want us here so I am considering leaving and I would discourage anyone from coming to live in Thailand.

You think Thai government should build a wall? 

 

 

[spiekerjozef]

Doesn't want YOU here

[White Christmas13]

8 minutes ago, Yinn said:

You think Thai government should build a wall? 

 

 

They already have one

[NCC1701A]

3 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

Miss Yinn seems to live in your neighborhood and knows you well......

she calls me Uncle.

[White Christmas13]

3 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

Miss Yinn seems to live in your neighborhood and knows you well......

[NCC1701A]

2 minutes ago, White Christmas13 said:

why are you clapping?

[White Christmas13]

Just now, NCC1701A said:

why are you clapping?

Because I have many girls calling me uncle 

[White Christmas13]

OK I lied, they call me sugar daddy

[sunnyboy2018]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

every time i go to immigration i am treated like a VIP.

thai neighbors love me. 

cannot be easier and nothing has changed for me in 6 years. 

FOR ME if i did not read Thai visa i would completely unaware anything has changed.

 

You are correct about reading about problems on Thai Visa. It acts as an echo chamber and amplifies issues even when people are wrong. All the paranoia,  neurosis and worry seems to come from people reading about it not actually experiencing it. We thus have the situation where new visitors to Thailand are worrying about TM30s etc without realizing its normal hotel procedure.

[sunnyboy2018]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

As for 800k- you have the money. No need to panic.

 

For now maybe….! as on a my country forum ,someone from Udon needed to show on top of that 800K he bring money in to Thailand or spending money besides the untouched 800K …. he thought they may be think he work …. and so it goes on …., question where they go stop …? (for a while  ...)

Mainly hearsay and second guessing.

[SpanishExpat]

To the OP.....it`s not about not being wanted. It`s about the fact that many Thai ppl don`t use their brains at all. Mix that with the ridiculous education of not being able to admit a fault/not losing their face, that`s the natural result.

 

The percentage of educated and smart Thai ppl are everywhere, but not in the government:) It`s sad ,but the reality. 

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[Number 6]

It's a bit of a tirade but I will agree in principle the Thai government is anti western in it's outlook. It has and continues to nurture relationships with Communist China despite this nation's historical anti communist stance. It doesn't want Western long stay tourists as they are nosing about in Thai politics. It doesn't want western governments. For decades Thailand has kept many outside ngos out.

 

While the local people and economy needs spenders, it's absolute folly to turn away tourists. Nevertheless, with massive cash reserves the government couldn't care less.

 

Thailand has no system to distinguish wealthy and working class tourists so while they may market to the wealthy there is no program encouraging this lot. In fact wealthy people might visit once at best. Thailand has nothing to offer rich people who don't like hassles, crime and thuggery. Finally, Thailand is absolutely clueless about the nature of work in the 21st century. I'm not surprised look how each government office and bureaucrat functions. The nation's ability to serve its own needs is dubious at best.

 

Thailand's government since 2006 has had this mindset. It's only since 2014 have things really taken a turn downward.

 

What thaivisa members apparently don't realize is that they in particular are being singled out. Thailand has had enough of middle aged, brokeass, complaining sex tourists. This lot is extremely angered at the situation because Thailand is free and easy and they have everything sorted out here. STOP coming here.

 

As for long stay women. They tend imo to be more likely to work. Women in general are less capitalized and less mischief to get up to here. So they're teaching babies or working on islands. Maybe an online business with their foreign bf.

 

Finally, while the simple, clear solution is to provide guidelines and why this has not been done i can only offer cynicism that all the idiots that continue fronting up and being rejected, need extensions this feeds jobs. But in a larger frame I think any grand announcement about only allowing 4 weeks a year or two or whatever would really sink tourism. It had in Indonesia not that Thailand has taken note. Indo has had the same anti western mindset for decades.

 

I really don't know why men continue to suffer this. It's not going to change as well except for the worse. I really start to question the intelligence of those that bang on with their tourist entries. The O visa mongers using illegal agents - well, they are living out their last days in warmth before they are forced home.

 

 

 

[RichardColeman]

Better to bung the agent the 13k or whatever than tie up $26,000 !

[tgeezer]

27 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Better to bung the agent the 13k or whatever than tie up $26,000 !

For a Brit the money may as well be tied up here as in the UK. You need to add 10,000THB loss of interest to the cost of an agent. 

[Destiny1990]

Seems indeed that  we are not wanted.

Could we be to opinionated?