I was wrong... the tourists ARE gone!

[FolkGuitar]

We went out tonight, to the Changklan Rd Night Bazaar.  I wanted some grilled lamb from the "Little Istanbul" food vendor, and a plate of Donnar Kabab so we headed downtown. We took a Grab taxi that cost 120 baht, got off at the corner of Loi Kraw and Changklan Rd, and started north along the left side of the Market, looking to see if there was something new to be seen. What there was, was empty sidewalks!
We could walk side by side talking to each other because there were no other shoppers in front or behind us... almost as far as we could see.

But it was early yet...Just 7pm.  They probably come out later. So we crossed the street and headed south, still side by side. We went into the Kalare Market, found where Little Istanbul was set up, and had a delightful, delicious, and leisurely dinner. We got a table right in front of Little Istanbul, but actually, we had a choice of many empty tables. Most of them, in fact. We were finished by 8pm, and started strolling south along the Market street... side by side. The Night Bazaar was a ghost town... on a Saturday night at 8:30.   A handful of tourists at the Loi Kraw intersection, but once past there, side by side again down to the Anusarn Market, crossing the street, and north again... side by side... back to the Loi Kraw intersection. Rather than calling another Grab taxi, I asked a Tuk-tuk driver, knowing that the last time I did that when the market was crowded they asked 250 baht, but what the hell.  I figured business must be slow. Very slow because he quoted 150, and let me bargain him down to 110 baht. Cheaper than the Grab taxi.

The tourists are gone. I don't notice it so much during the day, but at night, at least at the 'famous' Chiang Mai Night Bazaar, the tourists are gone.

[donnacha]

I happened to be out around that area last Saturday night and was astonished by how dead it was.

Hard to believe this is high season. Perhaps the Chinese are all congregating elsewhere in Chiang Mai, but I do not see how these areas, previously so popular with Western tourists, will be able to continue on in their current form.

The bar area of Loi Kroh, in particular, has struggled ever since the junta came in and enforced ridiculous closing times but, as I walked past entirely empty bars at the prime drinking time of 9pm on Saturday night, I wondered if they now even earn enough to cover the cost of electricity.

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by donnacha

[Puchaiyank]

Gone...but not forgotten!

[LomSak27]

Because of where I live I drive Chang Klan Rd occasionally in the evening. The night market is dead, its been dead for years, it’s sad actually. But you knew this is the way it would end. The fact that tourists aren’t there is not a big indicator of tourist numbers. They have better places to go than that dump.

 

Festival was packed yesterday, tourists were there, but mainly locals who wanted to get out and about after a week in the refrigerator. Saturday walking street the same with more tourists in the mix but. Chinese are here but not in the numbers of years gone by.

 

There is no high season this year.

[GeorgeCross]

9 hours ago, donnacha said:

The bar area of Loi Kroh, in particular, has struggled ever since the junta came in and enforced ridiculous closing times but, as I walked past entirely empty bars at the prime drinking time of 9pm on Saturday night, I wondered if they now even earn enough to cover the cost of electricity.

 

Chiang Mai was the pilot.. now its being rolled out nationwide

 

adios amigos

 

 

[bkk6060]

So, what is your point OP?

You hit a day when it was not crowded so I guess this is the end of tourism in CM?

Even the major tourist spots in the world have down times.

Was there a few weeks ago it was packed.

 

Let us know how things are in the coming weeks with the holiday season kicking in.

Side by side.  How sweet...

[Destiny1990]

At least the happiness has been delivered !

[Bill97]

32 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

So, what is your point OP?

You hit a day when it was not crowded so I guess this is the end of tourism in CM?

Even the major tourist spots in the world have down times.

Was there a few weeks ago it was packed.

 

Let us know how things are in the coming weeks with the holiday season kicking in.

Side by side.  How sweet...

We are sorry she cut you off and all wish you luck in getting some again soon.  

[elektrified]

We were out until around 1:00 this morning and went from the city (including the Night Bazaar area) to as far as Kad Farang and the Outlet Mall in Hang Dong and then back into the city. For the most part, it is indeed dead. But, there are pockets of very busy trade and in all of those places we saw several Chinese tour buses parked outside. The city is really dead as has been stated. But, the Saturday night market at Kad Farang was quite busy with many Chinese tourists dropping money left and right. The Outlet Mall next-door was as dead as you could imagine with perhaps no more than 10-15 people there. Certainly that place is destined for failure. The Chinese have caught on to the price gouging that goes on there. Prices there are higher than Central Festival. My wife recently bought me a very nice quality shoulder pack/bag that is part leather with good quality clasps, etc. She shopped for the longest time until she found this item from one of her suppliers in China. Surprisingly, when we went into one shop there, there was a bag on display from the same manufacturer and it was not nearly as nice as mine. Price tag = 7,999 THB. My wife revealed last night that she paid 800 THB for the bag I have. When she pulled out her camera to take a photo of the bag and price tag, a sales assistant came running over and told her no photos! Is it any wonder the Chinese tourist numbers are down?

 

As far as the lack of tourists from Europe, America, etc. just take a look at the exchange rates! It's more expensive to vacation in Koh Samui than it is to go to many places in Europe. I had a friend coming to visit last month with one of his adult kids and after he figured out all the costs of decent hotels, transportation, etc. and the rate of exchange - he cancelled the trip. It's really expensive these days.

Edited December 15, 2019 by elektrified

[Ventenio]

wait until the end of January and then check.

 

last year it wasn't that busy before Xmas

[GeorgeCross]

35 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

wait until the end of January and then check.

 

last year it wasn't that busy before Xmas

 

thats the point. last year was <deleted> too.

 

 

[FolkGuitar]

2 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

So, what is your point OP?

 

 

The point is that Tourism is way down. We generally don't go out in the evenings, so I was only basing my earlier observations that Tourism was still generally OK, but with a different demographics,  from day-time rides through the center of town.

I ran a successful 'non-package tour' type tourist-based business here in Chiang Mai from 2001-2010. At that point I could see the writing in the wall (in Mandarin) and sold the business. The fellow I sold to went out of business within the year.

Last night, by 8:30, vendors were covering up their shops. THAT is NOT the sign of a healthy tourist economy.

[1FinickyOne]

3 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Gone...but not forgotten!

is that your personal motto? 

[cmsally]

On the weekends the Night Bazaar area is doubly dead because of the weekend markets and the Chinese who tend to migrate towards Nimman area.

Most of the Night Bazaar area seems to have been bought or leased out by the Beer Chang Group. Not quite sure what the plan is behind that. Maybe there is actually no plan at all!

They seem quite happy to sit around while the "original Night Bazaar building " sits at least 80 % vacant. I was told that particular building is on a long lease to Chang. Why lease a building that is mostly empty??

Then of course there is the fact that tourism is way down. It is not just up and down , it is totally down. If next year turns out to to be worse or the same as this year, it is really going to be a problem!

[Proboscis]

12 hours ago, donnacha said:

I happened to be out around that area last Saturday night and was astonished by how dead it was.

Hard to believe this is high season. Perhaps the Chinese are all congregating elsewhere in Chiang Mai, but I do not see how these areas, previously so popular with Western tourists, will be able to continue on in their current form.

The bar area of Loi Kroh, in particular, has struggled ever since the junta came in and enforced ridiculous closing times but, as I walked past entirely empty bars at the prime drinking time of 9pm on Saturday night, I wondered if they now even earn enough to cover the cost of electricity.

 

Tourists are not completely stupid. THe terrible pollution in Chiang Mai and elsewhere is still recent and would have been close to the time when folks would have been thinking of their getaway for around now.

 

Not to mention the high thai baht, some of the political stories coming out and problems with immigration etc. There are other places in the world for a winter holiday in the sun.

[baansgr]

CM was always a must see for backpackers, visa restrictions, prices, and what's shared on social media has caused its decline. Vietnam is now the must see for gap year students....its not gonna get any better anytime soon anywhere in Thailand. Such a shame that a country that had a stronghold on such a vast diverse amount of tourists have killed the goose

[hobz]

Why would somebody go to night bazaar on a Saturday when the Saturday market is open? 

I bet Saturday market was filled with people as usual.

 

 

[spidermike007]

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism. Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $2,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, most said no more. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, many in this region, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine service and selection at fair prices, which rich tourists demand), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.  

 

 So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. And now the Indians. They came. They came in droves. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. Low baht tourists are the majority who visit Thailand now. Sure, they spend some money in restaurants, and in 7/11 and in Tesco. But, that is about it, for some of the super low budget Chinese tours. Not many rich Chinese or Westerners are visiting Thailand these days, for a dozen good reasons. They have too many other options.

 

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists. The very first thing would be to repeal the anti farang wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that would be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of 460%. The five star hotels would have major wine events, and the entire industry would flourish here. Then the could lower the inane luxury taxes. Wealthy tourists love to spend money while on vacation. Is the wife going to spend 450,000 baht on a Prada handbag, that she can get for $4,500 in Singapore, Tokyo, London, New York, Dubai, Miami, Hong Kong, or Milan? The answer is an emphatic NO! 

[henry2109]

29 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism. Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $2,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, most said no more. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, many in this region, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine service and selection at fair prices, which rich tourists demand), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.  

 

 So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. And now the Indians. They came. They came in droves. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. Low baht tourists are the majority who visit Thailand now. Sure, they spend some money in restaurants, and in 7/11 and in Tesco. But, that is about it, for some of the super low budget Chinese tours. Not many rich Chinese or Westerners are visiting Thailand these days, for a dozen good reasons. They have too many other options.

 

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists. The very first thing would be to repeal the anti farang wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that would be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of 460%. The five star hotels would have major wine events, and the entire industry would flourish here. Then the could lower the inane luxury taxes. Wealthy tourists love to spend money while on vacation. Is the wife going to spend 450,000 baht on a Prada handbag, that she can get for $4,500 in Singapore, Tokyo, London, New York, Dubai, Miami, Hong Kong, or Milan? The answer is an emphatic NO! 

Hmm.. that sounds all correct, but on the other hand, the tourist numbers are growing, are even exploding: According to Wikipedia, there were 336'000 tourists in 1967, and this number went up to the sky, with 32.5 Mio. in 2016. This year Thailand might welcome 38 Mio. tourists.

 

Do they spend less than before? Maybe. Does the change of demographics of the tourists lead to lower revenue? Maybe, probably at least per head count. 

 

I am certain that the tourist numbers will keep growing. And that is why your valid points will not be addressed by the people in charge. Besides, even if they want to change certain things, they are not good in execution, so change will not be easy. 

[heybuz]

Maybe they have gone to Chang rai was there on the weekend and walking st,and night bazaar were packed, I cannot say though it was packed with tourists maybe locals.

[atyclb]

5 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Gone...but not forgotten!

 

my my, hey hey

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism.

 

 

you dont understand thai culture/mindset/education completely.  they never learn and they wont teach that at any school.

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

CM was always a must see for backpackers, visa restrictions, prices, and what's shared on social media has caused its decline. Vietnam is now the must see for gap year students....its not gonna get any better anytime soon anywhere in Thailand. Such a shame that a country that had a stronghold on such a vast diverse amount of tourists have killed the goose

 

many backpackers/tourists are free spirited and stay longer at a whim but why risk getting arrested, manhandled and sent to a nasty lockup for a few days overstay? even the terrible burma regime does not do this, overstayers simply pay a 3usd per/day fine when they leave. not to mention the baht exchange rate and the scamming/cheating.

[SteveK]

Chiang Mai in my eyes is only the kind of place you'd want to spend 2-3 nights in anyway. It's not exactly exciting really. Much better to stay in Bangkok or go to one of the islands, especially if you've only got a couple of weeks in Thailand.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists. The very first thing would be to repeal the anti farang wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that would be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of 460%. The five star hotels would have major wine events, and the entire industry would flourish here. Then the could lower the inane luxury taxes. Wealthy tourists love to spend money while on vacation. Is the wife going to spend 450,000 baht on a Prada handbag, that she can get for $4,500 in Singapore, Tokyo, London, New York, Dubai, Miami, Hong Kong, or Milan? The answer is an emphatic NO! 

Completely agree.   Every few months I  take a trip to Bangkok and  visit friends or conduct  some personal business.    In the hotels I use normally about 3 Star- I hardly see any Westerners- only Asians and some Middle Easterners but at about 50% occupancy.  

 

I used to enjoy a nice buffet at a  large  hotel- but no more- the prices are  increadibly high from 2000 Baht to 5000 Baht for  a night time meal without any alcohol.  Add a decent bottle of wine and a single diner can spend 7-10,00 Baht.   Ridiculous.  I can do much better in Las Vegas; Mexico; Hanoi or Manila

 

People didn't become wealthy paying exorbitant prices for things they know should be less and of better quality. No one likes to be taken advantage of/

 

The raises in the excise tax on mostly everything imported have made Thailand a poor choice .  Throw in  pollutionl poor beaches;  surly immigration officers who refuse to smile when tourists enter; and double pricing have  finally killed the 'golden goose.

 

I feel sorry for the average Thai person who has to put up with this nonsense. The Thai Government raised the daily minimum wage a  whopping 5-6 Baht per day. That ought to pay for a one way ride on a 50 year old bus with no air.

[Enoon]

Not surprising if this sort of "word" reached the wider world:

 

Chiang Mai remains most air-polluted city in world

 

Who would "dream" of visiting or retiring there?

 

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Enoon

[roobaa01]

so tourist business really down in bangkok, phuket, krabi, pattaya, chiang mai....due to an overvalued baht, obviously the people in charge dont understand sales and customers. once a customer changed the product, it is possible to get em back with the same price .

 

wbr

roobaa01

[donnacha]

I wonder.
 

Perhaps my general assumption that Thailand is governed by a form of greed and ego-fueled free fall is wrong.

Perhaps there is one far-sighted individual in the upper echelons of the Thai establishment who, having made an honest assessment of the air pollution situation, concluded that Thailand will never have a policing infrastructure capable of preventing it from continuing to deteriorate.
 

Therefore, knowing that Western tourism will evaporate anyway as the bad air seasons continue to expand, it makes sense to jettison the Westerners now and focus entirely on tourists from countries with such bad pollution of their own that they won't even notice it in Thailand.

[Benmart]

Tourists will tolerate a lot. But once you start killing them in bus, van and hired car crashes; drown them in a ferry boat accident, or chop them up in speed boat propellers, it's hard for that to be ignored. The country has so many obstacles to overcome, and public safety here is in a sorry state indeed. "Come to the Land of Smiles, and you'll never(want to) leave.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Benmart

[ThaiBunny]

9 minutes ago, Benmart said:

Tourists will tolerate a lot. But once you start killing them in bus, van and hired car crashes; drown them in a ferry boat accident, or chop them up in speed boat propellers, it's hard for that to be ignored. The country has so many obstacles to overcome, and public safety here is in a sorry state indeed. "Come to the Land of Smiles, and you'll never(want to) leave.

Be fair - at least there are no active volcanoes for them to climb