U.S. diplomat's wife involved in fatal crash should return to UK - foreign minister

[snoop1130]

U.S. diplomat's wife involved in fatal crash should return to UK - foreign minister

 

FILE PHOTO: Conservative Party candidate Dominic Raab speaks at a counting centre for Britain's general election in Esher, Britain December 13, 2019. REUTERS/Chris Radburn

 

LONDON (Reuters) - British foreign minister Dominic Raab appealed to the of wife of a U.S. diplomat who was given diplomatic immunity after her alleged involvement in a car crash which killed a British teenager to “do the right thing” and return to the UK.

 

Harry Dunn, 19, died in August after his motorcycle collided with a car driven by Anne Sacoolas near the RAF Croughton air force base in Northamptonshire, central England, used by the U.S. military.

 

Sacoolas left Britain shortly after the accident, setting off a diplomatic tug-of-war between London and Washington over whether she should return to face investigation.

 

“I appeal to Anne Sacoolas herself to do the right thing,” Raab said in a statement on Tuesday after meeting Dunn’s family. “If there is a charging decision from the Crown Prosecution Service, I urge her to come back to the United Kingdom and cooperate with the criminal justice process.

 

“We are united in our determination to get justice for Harry. The government will do everything it can,” he added.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-12-18

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[nev]

And so should be forced to go back, It's  bad enough killing someone but to run away from taking responsibility  is deplorable. 

[Sujo]

Agree. You did wrong, own it.

[z42]

Disgraceful behaviour. I didn't know that the spouses and kids of Diplomats were entitled to diplomatic immunity. This sets an awful precedent if allowed to go unchecked.

What a gutter human being ????

[Scott]

2 hours ago, z42 said:

Disgraceful behaviour. I didn't know that the spouses and kids of Diplomats were entitled to diplomatic immunity. This sets an awful precedent if allowed to go unchecked.

What a gutter human being ????

Diplomatic immunity extends to the immediate family as well as the diplomat.   There are different levels of diplomatic immunity, with lesser staff members at an embassy having functional immunity.  

Sadly, there have been many instances of people abusing their diplomatic immunity, however, on the whole it protects the diplomatic corp in many ways.   It's a case of, 'you don't mess with ours and we won't mess with yours.'   

 

This lady should do the right thing.   The laws in the UK are roughly comparable to the US and she does not face any punishment that she would not receive in the US.  

[White Christmas13]

3 hours ago, nev said:

And so should be forced to go back, It's  bad enough killing someone but to run away from taking responsibility  is deplorable. 

They do in Thailand every day

[tifino]

this Diplomatic Impunity leaves behind in it's wake...

 

 - a trail of Collateral damage,

conveniently swept under the carpet

[Bluespunk]

7 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

 

“I appeal to Anne Sacoolas herself to do the right thing,” Raab said in a statement on Tuesday after meeting Dunn’s family

Not going to happen. 

[legend49]

4 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Not going to happen. 

she is gutless, karma will get her one day.

[Aussieroaming]

The US should detain her and deport her, however by ensuring that she has diplomatic immunity them are complicit. Pretty poor effort for such "strong allies". I hope the family gets justice and sues her ass off.

[Emdog]

I get reason for diplomatic immunity and I think she should return and face the music.

By the way, whatever became of the case of British policewoman shot dead by someone in Libyan embassy 1984? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yvonne_Fletcher

[IAMHERE]

She hasn't been charged yet.

Thought her husband was a spy not a diplomat.

Sue her in America; must be able to if Musk got sued for insulting someone overseas.

If the UK doesn't kick out her husband too then they got no guts.

[Almer]

Strikes me the husband is somewhat important not just for the US but also the UK, my inexperienced guess she was whisked out quick to save some difficult questioning and i think i have read that no aircraft left the airbase at the time she returned, so begs the question who in the Uk helped her quick and to my mind unnecessary departure other than to save the difficult days of who is who and what is the nature of the husbands employment, agreed she could come back and would face  a UK driving ban   and fine but maybe she is being told not to come back, husband wants a low profile.

[stevenl]

21 minutes ago, Almer said:

Strikes me the husband is somewhat important not just for the US but also the UK, my inexperienced guess she was whisked out quick to save some difficult questioning and i think i have read that no aircraft left the airbase at the time she returned, so begs the question who in the Uk helped her quick and to my mind unnecessary departure other than to save the difficult days of who is who and what is the nature of the husbands employment, agreed she could come back and would face  a UK driving ban   and fine but maybe she is being told not to come back, husband wants a low profile.

She had diplomatic immunity, so could leave without being harassed from anywhere she wanted.

 

I would guess she would face more than a UK driving ban and a fine.

[fvw53]

11 hours ago, Scott said:

Diplomatic immunity extends to the immediate family as well as the diplomat.   There are different levels of diplomatic immunity, with lesser staff members at an embassy having functional immunity.  

Sadly, there have been many instances of people abusing their diplomatic immunity, however, on the whole it protects the diplomatic corp in many ways.   It's a case of, 'you don't mess with ours and we won't mess with yours.'   

 

This lady should do the right thing.   The laws in the UK are roughly comparable to the US and she does not face any punishment that she would not receive in the US.  

She is NOT in charge here ...in her case US State Department will instruct her what to do.....and I doubt they will create a precedent about diplomatic immunity for the tragic accident - not crime - she caused.  I made the same mistake twice after crossing by car from the European continent to the UK but I was lucky not to hurt or kill somebody.

[Scott]

3 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

She is NOT in charge here ...in her case US State Department will instruct her what to do.....and I doubt they will create a precedent about diplomatic immunity for the tragic accident - not crime - she caused.  I made the same mistake twice after crossing by car from the European continent to the UK but I was lucky not to hurt or kill somebody.

No, she is not in charge, however, she can make it easy on everyone and simply return to face the situation.  

[Baerboxer]

34 minutes ago, stevenl said:

She had diplomatic immunity, so could leave without being harassed from anywhere she wanted.

 

I would guess she would face more than a UK driving ban and a fine.

 

Depends what the CPS decides the charges are, if any. She hasn't been charged with anything yet.

 

I did read news reports, not sure how reliable, at the time that suggested she was over the drink-drive limit. 

 

That could make the charges more serious if so. But I guess she'd most likely get a fine, a ban and a suspended sentence at worst.

[jany123]

6 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

The US should detain her and deport her, however by ensuring that she has diplomatic immunity them are complicit. Pretty poor effort for such "strong allies". I hope the family gets justice and sues her ass off.

They should... but king don has long ago said no us citizen should be tried by a foreign country.

 

meanwhile, the US courts granted some 500 million in the case of Otto Warmbiers death.... a precedent is set... the UK family should look at this and follow suit... sue the bejesus out of the divisive states... goose / gander.

 

in the meantime, the UK (et al) should require that people with immunity be given (hire/employ) local drivers who are accountable. 

[Almer]

12 hours ago, stevenl said:

She had diplomatic immunity, so could leave without being harassed from anywhere she wanted.

 

I would guess she would face more than a UK driving ban and a fine.

Reports say her immunity ended once she was air side from which ever airport she departed, what do you think her penalty could have been ?

[LukKrueng]

16 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

The US should detain her and deport her, however by ensuring that she has diplomatic immunity them are complicit. Pretty poor effort for such "strong allies". I hope the family gets justice and sues her ass off.

She is a us citizen. She can't be deported from the USA 

[Aussieroaming]

7 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

She is a us citizen. She can't be deported from the USA 

good point

[Bruntoid]

On 12/18/2019 at 11:19 PM, White Christmas13 said:

They do in Thailand every day

The thread has absolutely nothing to do with Thailand but you still manage to get a weary predictable slur in - all so sad!

[fvw53]

23 hours ago, Scott said:

No, she is not in charge, however, she can make it easy on everyone and simply return to face the situation.  

She can do nothing unless instructed by her superiors otherwise she will face sanction at home (suspended, fired, no pension etc...) If US State Department would want her to return she would be back in the UK quickly....and then what?

This matter has to be settled US State Department and UK Foreign Service and UK Police could be invited to question her in the USA. 

If she would be suspected of a crime and not a tragic mistake then she would certainly face a US Criminal Court : that is how it works.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, fvw53 said:

She can do nothing unless instructed by her superiors otherwise she will face sanction at home (suspended, fired, no pension etc...) If US State Department would want her to return she would be back in the UK quickly....and then what?

This matter has to be settled US State Department and UK Foreign Service and UK Police could be invited to question her in the USA. 

If she would be suspected of a crime and not a tragic mistake then she would certainly face a US Criminal Court : that is how it works.

Even tragic mistakes can lead to prosecution. I don't think anyone is suggesting that she set out to kill the guy, but her negligence led to his death and for that she can be held criminally responsible. 

[fvw53]

13 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Even tragic mistakes can lead to prosecution. I don't think anyone is suggesting that she set out to kill the guy, but her negligence led to his death and for that she can be held criminally responsible. 

yes if she was negligent ...but what about being absentminded ...I made twice the mistake of starting to drive on the wrong side of the road when crossing by car from the EU to the UK but luckily I could correct it without harming or killing somebody.  However the accident she caused should generate at least compensation money for the bereaved family and that will be settled between State Dept and Foreign Ministry.

[RuamRudy]

43 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

yes if she was negligent ...but what about being absentminded ...I made twice the mistake of starting to drive on the wrong side of the road when crossing by car from the EU to the UK but luckily I could correct it without harming or killing somebody.  However the accident she caused should generate at least compensation money for the bereaved family and that will be settled between State Dept and Foreign Ministry.

In England there is an offence of 'Causing Death by Careless or Inconsiderate Driving'. Based upon what I have read, this would sound most likely in this case. This does not necessarily entail a custodial sentence if found guilty, but sentencing guidelines provide scope for up to 3 years.

 

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/causing-death-by-careless-or-inconsiderate-driving/

 

Here is a report on a trial following a similar tragedy in Scotland. It is a different legal system there, but the offence is broadly similar.

 

American tourist spared jail for causing fatal crash after driving on the wrong side of the road

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by RuamRudy

[Sujo]

3 hours ago, fvw53 said:

She can do nothing unless instructed by her superiors otherwise she will face sanction at home (suspended, fired, no pension etc...) If US State Department would want her to return she would be back in the UK quickly....and then what?

This matter has to be settled US State Department and UK Foreign Service and UK Police could be invited to question her in the USA. 

If she would be suspected of a crime and not a tragic mistake then she would certainly face a US Criminal Court : that is how it works.

Why would she be charged in the US for an offence in UK?

 

She should return and then her bail refused for lying to the court.

[Sujo]

14 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

She is a us citizen. She can't be deported from the USA 

Citizens cannot be deported, but thats not what is asked. Deportation is for doing something wrong in US and ordered to

leave.

 

Its for extradition to another country to face charges there.

 

yes a US citizen can be extradited.

[cleopatra2]

22 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Why would she be charged in the US for an offence in UK?

 

She should return and then her bail refused for lying to the court.

Which court did she lie to

[LukKrueng]

54 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Citizens cannot be deported, but thats not what is asked. Deportation is for doing something wrong in US and ordered to

leave.

 

Its for extradition to another country to face charges there.

 

yes a US citizen can be extradited.

I replied to a poster who wrote she should be deported