Dukes

[mcgriffith]

Let me start by saying that I love this forum and truly enjoy the banter that goes on here.

But I must say, this "obession" with The Dukes is absolutely unbelievable to me.

What the hel_l?

I like Duke's.

1) fast attentive service

2) simple "middle market" Chicago steakhouse decor/menu

3) the foccaccia bread that appears immediately

4) the reasonable prices for the quality received

5) nice beef, perfectly cooked to order (medium rare, thank you very much)

Don't know owner, have no outstanding mafia loan, not dating any of the staff...

I have friends here (long time residents) who go for everything but the meat- Mex night, bean soup, pizza, whatever.

I don't understand it- it's a USA Midwest-style STEAKHOUSE!

No lark's tongues in aspic, that's for sure.

But I like it.

[p1p]

Perhaps the aspect which most caught my attention was that p1p, who has never appeared to me to be anything but rational and reasonable, and is a moderator of this very forum, expressed hesitation about voicing an opinion on this topic.

I certainly agree with supporting businesses that provide good products/service at good value - who wouldn't ? That doesn't mean criticisms of such businesses should be suppressed, one would hope.

It might be good for us to spend rather more time recommending and discussing good local businesses, too. Anyone care to start a "best Thai meal for 25-30 baht" thread ?

Best Thai meal for 20-30 Baht. Time for a new thread methinks.

I expressed some reservations about typing anything critical of the Dukes because, as I explained elsewhere, the last time I did so I was almost flamed off the board and suffered some extremely unpleasant, not to say libellous attacks on myself personally. This is not an experience I would wish to repeat.

I accept that they may well serve some good, cheap food there, but the dishes I have had there to date have been well below the quality I would have hoped for.

[Rasseru]

i'm american . . .

Then . . . I have . . . bingo!

[1bigeater56]

I am going to say something here although I have been questioned about saying anything about The Duke's and have been threatened to be censored.

I know Dave, the manager of The Duke's personally. I like the restaurant and I posted some positive comments about The Duke's. I was not paid to do so, I was not offered a free drink, I did it because I liked this forum and I wanted to promote a restaurant I liked a lot.

I was told to stop promoting The Duke's.

This is what I got from Dave, it has nothing to do with me:

"P1P came into the restaurant with his kids and my wife, Pin, and I were going somewhere. We did not have the time at that point to fix his problem. He gave us an unavoidable review. It was a problem that we knew we had and we appreciated the critique. But a week later P1P came in with the expressed interested of blasting The DUKE’S. He came in a week later with a few of the Thai Visa people wanting the same review and when he could not get it from them he fell silent. Now, he posts rats. He should be ashamed."

[Rasseru]

Simply don't believe you, 1bigeater56.

[p1p]

"P1P came into the restaurant with his kids and my wife, Pin, and I were going somewhere. We did not have the time at that point to fix his problem. He gave us an unavoidable review. It was a problem that we knew we had and we appreciated the critique. But a week later P1P came in with the expressed interested of blasting The DUKE’S. He came in a week later with a few of the Thai Visa people wanting the same review and when he could not get it from them he fell silent. Now, he posts rats. He should be ashamed."

I am sorry but this is cr@p. Worse than that, it is false libellous cr@p and this is the second thread concerning the Dukes that you, 1bigeater56, have turned to personal attacks against myself in person, rather than addressing the issues I raise. I will be discussing this with other moderators to see if action is required in your case. Until a decision is reached, I am placing you on moderator preview of your further posts. You can rest assured that, apart from bringing this to the attention of the moderating team, I will take no personal part in any decision that might be reached.

I have visited the Dukes on two occasions, some months apart. I have never visited with "a few of the Thai Visa people" and never with any intention to "blast" the Dukes. After my first visit, I wrote a review in a thread that deifies

the restaurant. I gave my honest impressions and also posted suggested ways to overcome the problems I experienced.

I did not write any review after the second time I visited and have simply responded to occasional posts since then. If the Dukes had fixed the problems I raised after my first visit, I would have posted saying so. The problems were not fixed, so I wrote nothing.

As I state above, I have never entered the Dukes or any other restaurant with the intention of "blasting" it. I go to eat or to drink or meet friends. If I find a place to be truly good, I am very happy to support the place and tell people about it. If I find a place to be below acceptable standards, I keep quiet. If I believe a place is dangerous in their food hygiene practices or in other ways, I will warn people about it.

The only reason I posted at all in the initial thread about the Dukes was because I had gone there on the reccommendation of the apparent sycophants posting in that thread. I simply posted a differing view and was severely attacked, by yourself and others, for doing so.

My initial posted story about rats in food had no bearing on the Dukes. It was simply a story about restaurant reviewing. Indeed, I made it plain that the rats were of an imported edible variety and were even on the menu of the restaurant in question, albeit in a foreign language. Serving rats was considered problematic only because of the British food hygeine laws, which forbade serving of such..

[Ulysses G.]

I am freindly with both p1p and David Duke - and maybe Big Eater as well - so forgive me guys for staying out of this completely!

[Jai Dee]

I am sorry but this is cr@p. Worse than that, it is false libellous cr@p and this is the second thread concerning the Dukes that you, 1bigeater56, have turned to personal attacks against myself in person, rather than addressing the issues I raise. I will be discussing this with other moderators to see if action is required in your case. Until a decision is reached, I am placing you on moderator preview of your further posts. You can rest assured that, apart from bringing this to the attention of the moderating team, I will take no personal part in any decision that might be reached.

Action supported p1p.

As I'm sure do many of the CM locals.

[Tywais]

Action supported p1p.

As I'm sure do many of the CM locals.

I concur.

[meadish_sweetball]

Thirded.

[Donnyboy]

anyway................

I wont make up my mind on Dukes 2 until I have tried it.

Will be interested to see how it goes in a highly competitive area, esp from may to october when the NM is alot quieter. Probably most directly in competition will be the German restaurant across Loi kroy rd, and to a degree the restaurant next to Starbucks, The Red Lion, OMalleys etc etc. Dukes is at a good location thou.

[mongoose]

Thirded.

Thank you moderators for all your work to eliminate the personal attacks and attackers from the forum. It is so much more pleasant to read without them.

[mcgriffith]

Yeah, why are we getting so worked up about this- it's a restaurant, for crissakes!

With all the problems in the world today, it seems somewhat petty to be arguing about a restaurant, IMHO.

Let's give it a rest, and post to the NEW thread, best places for Thai food, 20-30 B..........

[tuky]

You have got my vote p1p.

And thanks to mongoose for realising how much work we do put in to thaivisa.com in order to keep the place readable. It is not easy.

[tigerbeer]

so anything else anyone wants to share about Duke's branch number 2? UG? where are u buddy? not much information about it since i mentioned MSG.

[chiang mai]

I'm hugely disappointed by this thread and some of the comments and innuendo's that have been made. Some folks seem to think it's okay to express an opinion but fail to realize that there's a big difference between expressing an opinion to a friend or a small group versus expressing an opinion that will be read by several thousand people. When you do the latter you set yourself up as a critic and whether you intend it or not your opinion, or more likely, lose casual thought, becomes fact in the minds of a small percentage of readers. When a persons business and reputation are at stake that scenario becomes wholly unacceptable.

I for one would like to see a TV policy to address this issue, even if that policy extends to not naming business names.

[sabaijai]

i do not say that the owners of various businesses under discussion do not hold the same standards i had, but some of the posters here seem to think that i, as a customer, owe something to them, as owners.

Yes, and if you don't agree that the place is the best in Chiang Mai, the self-appointed touts will question your taste (or worse, imply you're being somehow malicious for not being impressed with the food/service/ingredients/decor/etc).

Seems to me if a poster thinks the food at your favourite place is crap, one should accept it as a differing opinion, rather than taking it as a personal affront or an attack on that business.

I'm afraid I have little time or respect for business owners who are always on the defensive about their business. Being defensive makes failure likely. Accepting critique and resolving problems when brought to their attention will, in many cases, turn certain failure into a strong likelihood of success.

Couldn't agree more. I've been writing restaurant reviews for longer than I care to mention, and have noticed that the owners who complain most about bad press/WOM are almost invariably the ones whose restaurants are most sorely in need of improvements. These are the same ones who like to plaster the walls of their restaurants with yellowing review columns ...

On the other hand if someone maliciously sets out to trash a place in order to attack the owner, that's bad form and if detected it won't be tolerated here. Likewise to attack another member because they've criticised a restaurant (eg, as 1bigeater56 has), and worse, to recount details of their personal lives here, won't go down well.

[lannarebirth]

Am I the only person in Chiang mai who has no idea where The Dukes is, and has no wish to know either?

[Gonzo the Face]

Maybe ,,,,, just you and the Maytag Repair Man

[Donnyboy]

Am I the only person in Chiang mai who has no idea where The Dukes is, and has no wish to know either?

perhaps, then why did you click the topic then?

.......get away from the force of the Duke, it will draw you in from the smell of their BBQ tender juicy steak, home made meat patty hamburgers, and cold draught beer.......aaarrrrghhhh

Edited April 8, 2007 by Donnyboy

[Ulysses G.]

so anything else anyone wants to share about Duke's branch number 2? UG? where are u buddy? not much information about it since i mentioned MSG.

I was out of town, but am back.

More info as I get it.

[Ajarn]

I am sorry but this is cr@p. Worse than that, it is false libellous cr@p and this is the second thread concerning the Dukes that you, 1bigeater56, have turned to personal attacks against myself in person, rather than addressing the issues I raise. I will be discussing this with other moderators to see if action is required in your case. Until a decision is reached, I am placing you on moderator preview of your further posts. You can rest assured that, apart from bringing this to the attention of the moderating team, I will take no personal part in any decision that might be reached.

Action supported p1p.

As I'm sure do many of the CM locals.

But, not all, to be sure!

[Donnyboy]

I am sorry but this is cr@p. Worse than that, it is false libellous cr@p and this is the second thread concerning the Dukes that you, 1bigeater56, have turned to personal attacks against myself in person, rather than addressing the issues I raise. I will be discussing this with other moderators to see if action is required in your case. Until a decision is reached, I am placing you on moderator preview of your further posts. You can rest assured that, apart from bringing this to the attention of the moderating team, I will take no personal part in any decision that might be reached.

Action supported p1p.

As I'm sure do many of the CM locals.

But, not all, to be sure!

perhaps the 2 parties could Duke it out

Edited April 8, 2007 by Donnyboy

[Ulysses G.]

I'm hugely disappointed by this thread and some of the comments and innuendo's that have been made. Some folks seem to think it's okay to express an opinion but fail to realize that there's a big difference between expressing an opinion to a friend or a small group versus expressing an opinion that will be read by several thousand people. When you do the latter you set yourself up as a critic and whether you intend it or not your opinion, or more likely, lose casual thought, becomes fact in the minds of a small percentage of readers. When a persons business and reputation are at stake that scenario becomes wholly unacceptable.

I for one would like to see a TV policy to address this issue, even if that policy extends to not naming business names.

sabaijai Posted Yesterday, 2007-04-07 20:53:03

if someone maliciously sets out to trash a place in order to attack the owner, that's bad form and if detected it won't be tolerated here.

It is true that TV does not tolerate posters who make it obvious that they are out to trash someone else's reputation or business, however, some folks know how to keep their cards hidden and don't actually advertise what they are up to.

Sometimes the only difference between a differing opinion and a clever assault is the intention behind it .

[Jai Dee]

It is true that TV does not tolerate posters who make it obvious that they are out to trash someone else's reputation or business, however, some folks know how to keep their cards hidden and don't actually advertise what they are up to.

Sometimes the only difference between a differing opinion and a clever assault is the intention behind it .

Is there something in particular you might want to get off your chest UG?

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, no. Sorry to be so cryptic.

Just wanted to point out that it is difficult to always be fair to everyone because sometimes it is not always easy to figure out a poster's real motives.

QUOTE(chiang mai @ 2007-04-07 18:42:48)

I'm hugely disappointed by this thread and some of the comments and innuendo's that have been made. Some folks seem to think it's okay to express an opinion but fail to realize that there's a big difference between expressing an opinion to a friend or a small group versus expressing an opinion that will be read by several thousand people. When you do the latter you set yourself up as a critic and whether you intend it or not your opinion, or more likely, lose casual thought, becomes fact in the minds of a small percentage of readers. When a persons business and reputation are at stake that scenario becomes wholly unacceptable.

I for one would like to see a TV policy to address this issue, even if that policy extends to not naming business names.

I agree with chiang mai that a lot of damage can be caused to innocent people on the Net, but making a rule that businesses should not be named at all would sure take a lot of the fun out of the forum.

[Jai Dee]

I agree with chiang mai that a lot of damage can be caused to innocent people on the Net, but making a rule that businesses should not be named at all would sure take a lot of the fun out of the forum.

I do agree with you there... but there is a difference between giving a personal opinion (albeit negative) and outright slander.

[Ulysses G.]

Slander is untrue, but when something is presented as "personal opinion", that is not always easy to prove or disprove.

[Jai Dee]

True... and sometimes a difficult call for moderators to make on a public forum.

That's why we encourage you, the local members, to use the Report function to alert mods of anything you know to be slanderous or untrue.

It's human nature to be critical... and it's easy to use the forum as our voice to criticise. Dangerous too... as has been rightly pointed out, thousands of people, members as well as guests read the opinions posted here.

We don't want to take the fun out of the forum... but on the other hand, if a negative viewpoint is made, we should be mature enough to respect that opinion.

[Ulysses G.]

True... and sometimes a difficult call for moderators to make on a public forum.

That's why we encourage you, the local members, to use the Report function to alert mods of anything you know to be slanderous or untrue.

In my experience, the moderators have jumped on such behavior right away when it is pointed out to them, but sometimes it is not easy for them to spot if no one brings it to their attention.

Click that Report button when needed.