It's taken 6 years of me telling the wife...and finally the penny has dropped!

[Grumpy John]

I guess we all learn in our own time!  Take me for example I may have been raised on a sheep, beef and wheat farm until I was 16 but I sure as heck ain't claiming I am an expert on sheep, beef and wheat!  With the wife it's the same with mango farming.....not that she is claiming to be an expert.  She was raised when the family grew bananas and later mangoes, but she had to go work in Bangkok at 17......then at 20 her Auntie got her a job in Korea which lasted 7 years with one company, then back again for 4 years with another.  Several years in Taiwan and then back again.  So her mango experience when she inherited the orchard was slim!   Her brother ran it for her till we took over. Over the 6 years we have taken over running the orchard the profits have been slim.   This year looks to be the same so far.  So, at dinner the other night I was a little shocked when she started talking about the business and all the points I had been making for years.  The penny has dropped!

 

Point 1/ It's a crowded market segment and as a small seller so your at the mercy of the seemingly corrupt manipulative buyers.

Point 2/ Because there is an entrenched system of wholesale marketing the dons in the markets can keep you out.....unless you pay tea money.

Point 3/ Other countries are busting a nut establishing their own mango industry: China, Laos, Myanmar

Point 4/ The trend is away from traditional farming to more environmentally friendly, more intensive factory farming techniques.  Good results are being seen from trellising Mangoes in Australia.  Higher tonnage and better quality fruit from having more trees, higher sun exposure combined with better pest management practices.  

Point 5/ Value adding is difficult.  The common practice of selling fruit on the side of the road is the simplest way to get more money.  Everything else seems to have a lot of expenses.  Pulping needs not only the equipment to do the pulping but reefer storage space as well.   Making sauces is simpler but still requires added ingredients not grown locally, cooking facilities, bottling plant and bought in bottles and lids.  Then there are food regulations.....

 

Will we change?  Yes, but probably not as quickly as whatever we decide to grow will take years to establish.  It's possible now the penny has finally dropped!!

[ramrod711]

Good advice, no question you were right. Free advice to you, don't rub it in if you want to stay happily married lol.

[djayz]

If I were you, I'd compliment Mrs Grumpy for having an open mind to change, observing what's happening on both the local as well as the national level and finally for realising that there is a problem and she needs to think about alternatives. Those are rare qualities in this neck of the woods. 

Mrs Djayz doesn't go anywhere near the traditional Thai fruits as she knows there's no money in it for the little farmer. Things like raspberries, blackberries, avocados, figs, etc. seem to be growing in popularity here. But like everything else, these markets will become saturated, too. 

 

[Grumpy John]

Your both right......I was going to  say your "Wise Old Men" but I doubt either of you are over 80 yet!  The secret to change is to pick the right fruit for 4 years from now......  The only mango which can return us 40baht a kg is kel savoy (spelling?) and who is to say that will be true in 4 years!  Or our 12 R2-E2 but their 3 years away.

[farmerjo]

GJ,you and your wife must have more confidence in the fruit industry than cash crops.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

Pick up trucks going round Pattaya selling 3kg for 100 baht etc seem to be doing ok, gap in the market for more trucks

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, Grumpy John said:

Your both right......I was going to  say your "Wise Old Men" but I doubt either of you are over 80 yet!  The secret to change is to pick the right fruit for 4 years from now......  The only mango which can return us 40baht a kg is kel savoy (spelling?) and who is to say that will be true in 4 years!  Or our 12 R2-E2 but their 3 years away.

YUM R2E2 the best

[MikeN]

Interesting bit about the trellised mangos.....I googled for more info. I was thinking about some espaliered citrus to separate our ornamental garden from the vegie section. Might have to think about some mango trees instead, although I am sure everybody in the family will say it will not work here ...Thailand not same same.

[Grumpy John]

20 hours ago, farmerjo said:

GJ,you and your wife must have more confidence in the fruit industry than cash crops.

 

 

Hi FarmerJo,  Not drawing any comparisons between the 2......just being practical.  My best years have gone.   After a couple of seasons doing corn and rice I  knew I had to cut back......a bit.  Tik had 12 rai of mangoes and doing that and corn and rice for a couple of years knocked her about too.  I suggested sweet potatoes/taro but she wasn't keen on that.  I have a greenhouse I recently completed the steelwork....will be built in the coming weeks.  With a bit of experimentation I hope to find a crop that can bring in good money without using buyers.  First up is organic capsicum, melons and tomatoes. When we hit a winner I'll build another greenhouse......then another.....  If I can find the road to Success.....I can then suggest to Tik why don't we lease out the mango orchards and concentrate on greenhouse.  By crikey,  I think there is method in my madness!  

Edited December 29, 2019 by Grumpy John
Smelling

[Grumpy John]

16 hours ago, MikeN said:

Interesting bit about the trellised mangos.....I googled for more info. I was thinking about some espaliered citrus to separate our ornamental garden from the vegie section. Might have to think about some mango trees instead, although I am sure everybody in the family will say it will not work here ...Thailand not same same.

Hi MikeN, I talk about the orchard and 700+ trees so my thought process is on a grand scale but there are a lot of similarities between the home garden and a commercial operation.  Same insect pests,  same fungal diseases, same soil condition questions.  I would say do it!  You will never know if you don't give it a go.  Then you can keep us all updated on how it goes.  The big difference between us is if we do labour intensive work in the orchard we need a good yield and a good return to cover the cost.  The year before last we got our #4 mangoes about this time of year and we had 23 working till just after 9 at night and next day 17 people till 5pm.   The pay and O/T, the cost of meals and soft drink,  soda and whiskey and ice came to almost 19000 baht.  When you only get 29 baht a kilo you need lots of kilos! 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Grumpy John
Smelling

[farmerjo]

48 minutes ago, Grumpy John said:

Hi FarmerJo,  Not drawing any comparisons between the 2......just being practical.  My best years have gone.   After a couple of seasons doing corn and rice I  knew I had to cut back......a bit.  Tik had 12 rai of mangoes and doing that and corn and rice for a couple of years knocked her about too.  I suggested sweet potatoes/taro but she wasn't keen on that.  I have a greenhouse I recently completed the steelwork....will be built in the coming weeks.  With a bit of experimentation I hope to find a crop that can bring in good money without using buyers.  First up is organic capsicum, melons and tomatoes. When we hit a winner I'll build another greenhouse......then another.....  If I can find the road to Success.....I can then suggest to Tik why don't we lease out the mango orchards and concentrate on greenhouse.  By crikey,  I think there is method in my madness!  

I take my hat off to you and Tik for thinking of alternatives and ahead.

Will you be applying for organic certification with the greenhouses and can that be done splitting area's of farming on the farm.

I see the certification most beneficial for internet based export and domestic selling,probably not so for other local markets.

Why i ask is the better half here has been selling at local markets and to some other organisations without certification.Commonly asked questions are did you grow it yourself and is it chemical free.

A simple yes gets the sales done. 

 

 

[Grumpy John]

22 hours ago, farmerjo said:

I take my hat off to you and Tik for thinking of alternatives and ahead.

Will you be applying for organic certification with the greenhouses and can that be done splitting area's of farming on the farm.

I see the certification most beneficial for internet based export and domestic selling,probably not so for other local markets.

Why i ask is the better half here has been selling at local markets and to some other organisations without certification.Commonly asked questions are did you grow it yourself and is it chemical free.

A simple yes gets the sales done. 

 

 

Love it!  Selling yourself,  going to organic grown and marketing on the net.  Not an easy task with the mangoes unless we can convince the other orchardists on all sides to do it. Would be difficult.....maybe not impossible.  The greenhouse is a first for me.   There is a thousand things to think of before planting your first crop.  But the only thing needed now is CO2 generator.....but with perforated plastic for the walls it may not be needed.....maybe!  Certification is a high priority.  For export sales to Korea and Japan when we get big it's a must. 

[farmerjo]

Would be good if you could keep us updated on the certification when you get settled and apply for it.

We have around 13 pinned topics in the organic forum but none about actual organic certification in Thailand.

 

[Grumpy John]

It May take a while! Even here in Thailand you have to document every thing.....in Thai I would say. So translating from English will prove interesting!  I'll report on progress as we go. 

[Michael Hare]

To get organic certification that meets the organic certification standards demanded by the EU and the USA is a long and complicated process. First of all, your crops must be inspected and meet the standards. Then your packing shed or packing plant must also be certified to [produce and export organic produce. 

[Grumpy John]

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

To get organic certification that meets the organic certification standards demanded by the EU and the USA is a long and complicated process. First of all, your crops must be inspected and meet the standards. Then your packing shed or packing plant must also be certified to [produce and export organic produce. 

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

To get organic certification that meets the organic certification standards demanded by the EU and the USA is a long and complicated process. First of all, your crops must be inspected and meet the standards. Then your packing shed or packing plant must also be certified to [produce and export organic produce. 

I think your right.  BUt the first step is to meet Thai organic standards and prove I can actually grow something in a greenhouse environment, which is something I  have not done before.  

Edited January 1, 2020 by Grumpy John
Smeling