Thousands of people trapped in Australian coastal town by huge wildfires

[RJRS1301]

The NPWS had a hazard reduction target to treat 680,000ha of parks and reserves in the five years from 2011, which the spokesperson said it had exceeded.

The spokesperson added: “Hazard reduction is just one way of preparing for bushfires – it doesn’t remove the threat of fire.”

Bradstock says: “In New South Wales, hazard reduction work is governed by policies that are set by coordinating committee chaired by the Rural Fire Service. They bring together all players – with representatives from farmers, environment groups and governments.

“Hazard reduction work has increased because of increased funding to the RFS and to national parks. There has been more carried out in recent years than in previous decades.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/12/is-there-really-a-green-conspiracy-to-stop-bushfire-hazard-reduction

 

[bristolboy]

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Soooooo, either they are saying that the undergrowth I saw burning on a tv news clip wasn't actually there, or they are saying undergrowth had no factor in the fires. Hmmmmmmm.

It looks like you need to see this again:

Are hazard reduction burns effective in managing bushfires? 

"Professor Bradstock agreed, pointing to the example of Victoria's Black Saturday bushfires in 2009 that claimed the lives of 173 people.

His team studied the aftermath of the fires which were associated with an FFDI of well above 100.

They found that even in the areas where fuel had been treated with planned burns less than five years prior, there was no measurable effect on the intensity of the fires."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-20/hazard-reduction-burns-bushfires/11817336

[samran]

57 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Soooooo, either they are saying that the undergrowth I saw burning on a tv news clip wasn't actually there, or they are saying undergrowth had no factor in the fires. Hmmmmmmm.

No, the fires are of an unprecedented magnitude. I think you are a kiwi so I’d expect you’d know the geography of Australia somewhat. They have their targets but they can’t get everywhere due to basic geography. Add in shorter burning off windows (shorter winters). 
 

Houses and buildings surrounded with well manicured farms with fields and pastures are being destroyed. Embers flying 40km creating new fronts.

 

https://www.facebook.com/107787018440/posts/10156883674788441?sfns=mo

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, samran said:

No, the fires are of an unprecedented magnitude. I think you are a kiwi so I’d expect you’d know the geography of Australia somewhat. They have their targets but they can’t get everywhere due to basic geography. Add in shorter burning off windows (shorter winters). 
 

Houses and buildings surrounded with well manicured farms with fields and pastures are being destroyed. Embers flying 40km creating new fronts.

 

https://www.facebook.com/107787018440/posts/10156883674788441?sfns=mo

Not to mention that some of the "fire reduction burns" have escaped containments due to unexpected high winds. Couple that with a year of further drought, higher temperatures, and dryer fuel load, lightening strikes, 

Because of the danger some areas due for reduction burns have not been able to be burned, less staff on the ground in National Parks and fire crews.

Fires where I have come back to began in September and continue even though the danger which was there is much less.

We had a tree, which had not smoked or smouldered for 3 days, ignite from under the roots, spread unexpected, to already burned surface area.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, samran said:

No, the fires are of an unprecedented magnitude. I think you are a kiwi so I’d expect you’d know the geography of Australia somewhat. They have their targets but they can’t get everywhere due to basic geography. Add in shorter burning off windows (shorter winters). 
 

Houses and buildings surrounded with well manicured farms with fields and pastures are being destroyed. Embers flying 40km creating new fronts.

 

https://www.facebook.com/107787018440/posts/10156883674788441?sfns=mo

I do, but I only have experience of Sydney and the outback around Broken Hill. Never been in the forested area.

However, should similar drought and temperatures happen in NZ, the North Island is going to burn, because every pine forest I've passed by on the road has undergrowth. It hasn't been necessary to clear it in the past, though we do have fire breaks. I do hope that in the halls of forest owners and government they are considering what to do in the event of similar weather as Australia has now.

Far as I know, we only have helicopter buckets, and no planes for dropping water.

[elmrfudd]

On 12/31/2019 at 5:14 PM, Barry343 said:

Not sure where you hail from, the East Coast of Australia is 3000km made up of rainforest and National Parks that stretch 200km inland. there are cities and towns cut into these forests the problem is that Australia has been in a drought for the last 5 years and the build-up of dead vegetation that has not been cleared by legislation brought by the Labor and Greens Parties in 2005. Thi9s fire is only a small part of the millions of hectares that has be burning since August 2019.

Very well said sir. The tragic result of the eco nazi attitude. 

 

There has been a media push to blame “climate change” for the devastation (e.g., “Australia is Committing Climate Suicide“). However, several other factors are genuinely responsible for the disaster.

First off, Australians have adopted land management practices that are similar to those implemented by California…and we have covered the Golden State’s numerous, large-scale blazes regularly, including one that trapped me on an interstate in 2014.

It turns out built-up layers of dry eucalyptus twigs and leaves make excellent fuel. A warning given in 2015 seems to have gone unnoticed.

[Odysseus123]

4 hours ago, samran said:

No, the fires are of an unprecedented magnitude. I think you are a kiwi so I’d expect you’d know the geography of Australia somewhat. They have their targets but they can’t get everywhere due to basic geography. Add in shorter burning off windows (shorter winters). 
 

Houses and buildings surrounded with well manicured farms with fields and pastures are being destroyed. Embers flying 40km creating new fronts.

 

https://www.facebook.com/107787018440/posts/10156883674788441?sfns=mo

No..not a Kiwi..

[bristolboy]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I do, but I only have experience of Sydney and the outback around Broken Hill. Never been in the forested area.

However, should similar drought and temperatures happen in NZ, the North Island is going to burn, because every pine forest I've passed by on the road has undergrowth. It hasn't been necessary to clear it in the past, though we do have fire breaks. I do hope that in the halls of forest owners and government they are considering what to do in the event of similar weather as Australia has now.

Far as I know, we only have helicopter buckets, and no planes for dropping water.

So what's the range of the FDDI on the North Island?

[bristolboy]

If you want to see where a lot of the lies about how Greens are responsible for the fires, or that this fire season is no worse than others, or that arsonists are largely to bloom, look no further than Rupert Murdoch.

How Rupert Murdoch Is Influencing Australia’s Bushfire Debate

 

The idea that “greenies” or environmentalists would oppose measures to prevent fires from ravaging homes and lives is simply false. But the comment reflects a narrative that’s been promoted for months by conservative Australian media outlets, especially the influential newspapers and television stations owned by Rupert Murdoch.

...His standard-bearing national newspaper, The Australian, has also repeatedly argued that this year’s fires are no worse than those of the past — not true, scientists say, noting that 12 million acres have burned so far, with 2019 alone scorching more of New South Wales than the previous 15 years combined.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/world/australia/fires-murdoch-disinformation.html

[Odysseus123]

Yes-it is an exceedingly false narrative which started on day 1 of the fires.Perhaps one should mention the radio station's "talk-back jocks" as well as this form of media is still very popular in Australia and it's influence is often under-rated.

[Don Mega]

On 1/5/2020 at 7:25 PM, Olmate said:

But you know so much about Australian bush fires and tree huggergreens. I grew up in that area as a young fella ,I know the grazing of the high country was an issue then. It was the precursor to the current thinking of locking up the national parks and generally using political pressure to prevent controlled back burns and other measures in the name of conservation? Really if you know nothing about that area what,s the point of replying.

Just because I don't come from down south don't mean I don't know anything of the area.

 

Before I moved to the Gold Coast in the 90's I lived in Canberra.

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, Odysseus123 said:

Yes-it is an exceedingly false narrative which started on day 1 of the fires.Perhaps one should mention the radio station's "talk-back jocks" as well as this form of media is still very popular in Australia and it's influence is often under-rated.

I wonder how many posters on the subject of “back-burning” have read the links to the expert articles on it, and comprehended what has been written and said on the subject.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

No..not a Kiwi..

As he was replying to my post I assume you are referring to me, so perhaps you can explain your very strange claim.

I don't go on facebook so I have no idea what the link is about.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, bristolboy said:

So what's the range of the FDDI on the North Island?

Why are you asking about Fiber Distributed Data Interface on a thread about forest fires?

[Odysseus123]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I wonder how many posters on the subject of “back-burning” have read the links to the expert articles on it, and comprehended what has been written and said on the subject.

When you are running a narrative such as this you keep it simple and re-enforce it repeatedly-Dr Goebbels knew the trick...

 

If challenged you merely shift from one topic to another-an endless "whataboutism"

 

In terms of the Murdoch press it fitted seamlessly into the already existing campaign that they have been running for years-climate change denial,"anti-Greens" and,most recently,virulently anti Greta Thunberg.

 

We all knew in my area that the fires were coming due to the three year intense drought,the very short winter season,the hot and high winds and the fact-experienced by all-that there was no rain-and there still hasn't been any.

 

So this was going to go up like a bomb..

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Odysseus123

[RJRS1301]

These two links may be of interest to some

It may not fit some folks narrative

Opinion pieces for consideration.

 

https://theconversation.com/scott-morrisons-biggest-failure-in-the-bushfire-crisis-an-inability-to-deliver-collective-action-129437

 

https://theconversation.com/theres-no-evidence-greenies-block-bushfire-hazard-reduction-but-heres-a-controlled-burn-idea-worth-trying-129350

 

[TopDeadSenter]

Arson, mischief and recklessness: 87 per cent of fires are man-made

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/arson-mischief-and-recklessness-87-per-cent-of-fires-are-man-made-20191117-p53bcl.html

 

The main thrust of Australians now must be to ignore the climate cultists, and catch all these firebugs. How many of them turn out to be members of the climate cult trying to prove the fallacy that man made climate change caused the fires(that they themselves set!) would be interesting to know. I suspect the majority were.

[Odysseus123]

41 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Arson, mischief and recklessness: 87 per cent of fires are man-made

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/arson-mischief-and-recklessness-87-per-cent-of-fires-are-man-made-20191117-p53bcl.html

 

The main thrust of Australians now must be to ignore the climate cultists, and catch all these firebugs. How many of them turn out to be members of the climate cult trying to prove the fallacy that man made climate change caused the fires(that they themselves set!) would be interesting to know. I suspect the majority were.

Ah..yet another emissary of looney,right wing Tralfamadore.

 

They are penetrating our air space thick and fast these days...

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Odysseus123 said:

We all knew in my area that the fires were coming

and yet.............................

Seems all the people currently in need of evacuation didn't get the message.

[Odysseus123]

58 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

These two links may be of interest to some

It may not fit some folks narrative

Opinion pieces for consideration.

 

https://theconversation.com/scott-morrisons-biggest-failure-in-the-bushfire-crisis-an-inability-to-deliver-collective-action-129437

 

https://theconversation.com/theres-no-evidence-greenies-block-bushfire-hazard-reduction-but-heres-a-controlled-burn-idea-worth-trying-129350

 

The point about Scott Morrison is that he is entirely a creation of the Murdoch press and would love to dance to their tune.

 

Hence the climate change denial but the increasing confusion between ideology and the actuality on the ground.

 

As long as Rupert and his Tralfamadorean crew pull the strings ScoMo will remain in a state of confusion.

 

Considering that a substantial portion of his party consist of looney right wing Tralfamadoreans who believe that the Earth is but 6,000 years old you can see that he will have a problem when independant decision making is called for.

 

Meanwhile the greatest danger to all looney right wing Tralfamadoreans is the miscreants from the planet Greenie who may inhibit free access to the airspace.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Odysseus123

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

These two links may be of interest to some

It may not fit some folks narrative

Opinion pieces for consideration.

 

https://theconversation.com/scott-morrisons-biggest-failure-in-the-bushfire-crisis-an-inability-to-deliver-collective-action-129437

 

https://theconversation.com/theres-no-evidence-greenies-block-bushfire-hazard-reduction-but-heres-a-controlled-burn-idea-worth-trying-129350

 

I read your second link and THIS seemed to hit the spot.

South-eastern Australia has long experience of intense fires, yet our population has spread into the bushlands of coastal hinterlands and urban fringes. This has occurred despite scientists warning for more than 30 years that wildfire risks were intensifying due to climate change.

 

So long as people continue to ignore reality, such events will happen. Fire in bushland is NORMAL. People trying to stop bush fires is not the best strategy, IMO, when they should be working WITH nature, not against it.

 

PS. The actions suggested seem to be overly dependent on volunteers, so I can't see that working. Perhaps 30 years ago when people were more community minded. Asking VOLUNTEER fire fighters to do even more is a bit cheeky, IMO.

They need to come up with a better strategy than asking communities to do the work for nothing.

Edited January 9, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[steven100]

The fires are a natural occurrence however now to the extremes, I believe this along with floods, earthquakes, cyclones & tornado's, drought and landslides, and the ice age are what killed off the mammoths, dinosaurs and made others extinct. The world moves in cycles and times change, as well as weather patterns. Hot one century and cold the next or whatever, but this is what is happening.  imo  

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by steven100

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, Odysseus123 said:

The point about Scott Morrison is that he is entirely a creation of the Murdoch press and would love to dance to their tune.

 

Hence the climate change denial but the increasing confusion between ideology and the actuality on the ground.

 

As long as Rupert and his Tralfamadorean crew pull the strings ScoMo will remain in a state of confusion.

 

Considering that a substantial portion of his party consist of looney right wing Tralfamadoreans who believe that the Earth is but 6,000 years old you can see that he will have a problem when independant decision making is called for.

 

Meanwhile the greatest danger to all looney right wing Tralfamadoreans is the miscreants from the planet Greenie who may inhibit free access to the airspace.

 

 

Their creation,s latest stuff up, on Kangaroo Island...oops sorry I forgot the two residents who died!

[giddyup]

44 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

 

And what's truly alarming about these fires is that they began in October. January and February used to be the fire season. Thank you climate change.

What difference does it make that the fires used to be in Jan Feb?  Do you honestly believe that the earth's climate has been constant for a million years?

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

What difference does it make that the fires used to be in Jan Feb?  Do you honestly believe that the earth's climate has been constant for a million years?

Fires still are in Jan and Feb, It's just that now they're also in October, November, and December. What denialists don't seem to understand is that it's not a question of climate change, it's about the increased rate of change and what's causing it.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Fires still are in Jan and Feb, It's just that now they're also in October, November, and December. What denialists don't seem to understand is that it's not a question of climate change, it's about the increased rate of change and what's causing it.

Can you categorically say that similar changes haven't happened before in Earth's history.

[TopDeadSenter]

55 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And what's truly alarming about these fires is that they began in October. January and February used to be the fire season. Thank you climate change.

Wrong. The fire are arson as per my post 257 above. I will copy paste for your benefit and to stop the propagation of fake news. The Aussie fires have as much relation to man made climate change as the Smollett lynching had to do with the MAGA movement.

 

Arson, mischief and recklessness: 87 per cent of fires are man-made

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/arson-mischief-and-recklessness-87-per-cent-of-fires-are-man-made-20191117-p53bcl.html

 

The main thrust of Australians now must be to ignore the climate cultists, and catch all these firebugs. How many of them turn out to be members of the climate cult trying to prove the fallacy that man made climate change caused the fires(that they themselves set!) would be interesting to know. I suspect the majority were.

[bristolboy]

13 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Wrong. The fire are arson as per my post 257 above. I will copy paste for your benefit and to stop the propagation of fake news. The Aussie fires have as much relation to man made climate change as the Smollett lynching had to do with the MAGA movement.

 

Arson, mischief and recklessness: 87 per cent of fires are man-made

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/arson-mischief-and-recklessness-87-per-cent-of-fires-are-man-made-20191117-p53bcl.html

 

The main thrust of Australians now must be to ignore the climate cultists, and catch all these firebugs. How many of them turn out to be members of the climate cult trying to prove the fallacy that man made climate change caused the fires(that they themselves set!) would be interesting to know. I suspect the majority were.

Police contradict claims spread online exaggerating arson's role in Australian bushfires

Victoria police say there is no evidence any of the devastating bushfires in the state were caused by arson, contrary to the spread of global disinformation exaggerating arsonist arrests during the current crisis.

A misleading figure suggesting 183 arsonists have been arrested “since the start of the bushfire season” spread across the globe on Wednesday, after initial reports in News Corp were picked up by Donald Trump Jr, US far-right websites and popular alt-right personalities.

The figure included statistics from some states covering the entirety of 2019, rather than just the current bushfire season, which began in September.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/08/police-contradict-claims-spread-online-exaggerating-arsons-role-in-australian-bushfires

[bristolboy]

25 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Wrong. The fire are arson as per my post 257 above. I will copy paste for your benefit and to stop the propagation of fake news. The Aussie fires have as much relation to man made climate change as the Smollett lynching had to do with the MAGA movement.

 

Arson, mischief and recklessness: 87 per cent of fires are man-made

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/arson-mischief-and-recklessness-87-per-cent-of-fires-are-man-made-20191117-p53bcl.html

 

The main thrust of Australians now must be to ignore the climate cultists, and catch all these firebugs. How many of them turn out to be members of the climate cult trying to prove the fallacy that man made climate change caused the fires(that they themselves set!) would be interesting to know. I suspect the majority were.

And even Paul Read, the person whom you cite, says this:

"We do not have an 'arson emergency,'" he says. "They might light the fires, but the consequences are due to climate change first, fuel load second."

https://sea.mashable.com/science/8478/the-arson-emergency-trending-amid-australias-bushfire-crisis-is-actually-not-a-thing

[RJRS1301]

I returned from Thailand in September to assit some coordination around our family property in Norther NSW, we have expereiced 3 years of drought. We have had a fire expert advise and design control and protection measures, including roof top spinklers on several of the dwellings, external water storage tanks, generators to run pumps in strategic places.

Much of our clearing in preparation over the years has been carried out by the RFS (volunteers)

Due to extreme weather they hadve severely limted, in their control burning work, due fire restrictions (total fire bans as early as August) 

 

I can assure many of the experts here, that the fire which destroyed my sisters home, several of the out buildings on our family property , and a large orchid was not the work of an arsonist.

 

It was a lightening strike in a state forest on one of the borders, the state forest has been logged on rotational basis and had subsequtly been cleared of a huge amount of flamable material. the fire came down the hill at great rate knots driven by the wind of a dry thunderstorm, it created its own weather withing that firestorm driving embers several kilometers ahead of it.

Luckily we were well prepared and feel grateful to the fire expert we have consulted for several years, and are much luckier than some of our neighbours. We fortunate enough to save most of the live stock, but still lost several treasured head, 

 

I hope you never have to expereince this in your lifetime, we are so lucky to be supported by loyal employees, a great surrounding comunity and able to offer some assitance to others.