Fuel

[Isaanbiker]

8 minutes ago, peterpeter said:

Hi All,

     Well I did not expect my question to bring up such a diverse amount

of questions and answers Thank you all very much for joining in and forgive me

if I still seem a little confused some say Shell V power others the basic diesel

some say V power good for engine others just paying for additives a waste

 If I go for Shell Fuel Save Diesel: 27:89 am I in the right ball park?  

 

https://www.shell.co.th/en_th/motorists/shell-fuels/shell-fuel-prices.html

Buy the ordinary Diesel oil and think more about regular oil and filter change.

 

That's way more important.

 

I change mine including filter every 5 K and my engine is running like a Swiss clockwerk after 309,000 km. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Isaanbiker

[Don Mega]

1 hour ago, VYCM said:

 

 

 

 

I know what Gasohol means, also its uses and when and where not to use.

 

Can you answer the question? - Why is gasohol at the Shell petrol stations selling 95 Gasohol (ethanol) for 5 baht more expensive?

 

Let’s keep focused, no need for info regarding Canada, petrol strimmer / warrantee or other issues.

Gasahol95  is 26.75 at Shell.... is everyone else selling for 21.75 ?

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, VYCM said:

I know what Gasohol means,

If you knew that you would have used the correct spec, E10, E20 or E85

[Tuvoc]

4 hours ago, peterpeter said:

Hi All,

     Well I did not expect my question to bring up such a diverse amount

of questions and answers Thank you all very much for joining in and forgive me

if I still seem a little confused some say Shell V power others the basic diesel

some say V power good for engine others just paying for additives a waste

 If I go for Shell Fuel Save Diesel: 27:89 am I in the right ball park?  

 

https://www.shell.co.th/en_th/motorists/shell-fuels/shell-fuel-prices.html

 

It is always a controversial topic.

 

Apparently, their FuelSave products have friction modifiers to give slightly better fuel economy

 

I believe that extra additives in VPower and other premium diesels are beneficial. But they massively overcharge for this premium fuel. In my opinion, a good compromise is FuelSave for 3 x tanks and then VPower for the 4th tank. And as one other poster says, regular oil and filter changes, frequency depending on how the vehical is used but not more than 10,000km and at least every year.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Tuvoc
typo

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

"Gasohol" means it contains ethanol which can be 10% or 20%, not sure if that creates a price difference.

As far as I am aware only Thailand and Canada have widespread use of this type of fuel. The idea being that it keeps the engine clean by effectively wearing the metal away.

I have a petrol strimmer and the warranty prohibits the use of fuel with a higher than 5% ethanol content. I use Benzine, it is more expensive and becoming difficult to find.

The pure hydrocarbon version is still in demand for older vehicles/engines, which have plastics that are attacked by polar solvents such as ethanol.

The term benzine is a misnomer. Benzene in fuels in most countries is kept to less than 2%, as it is a known human carcinogen which causes leukemia.

[Cricky]

18 hours ago, sandyf said:

23 hours ago, VYCM said:

I know what Gasohol means,

If you knew that you would have used the correct spec, E10, E20 or E85

I have no idea what you are talking about, read my post #28 before commenting.

I replied to you professionally, try to show the same courtesy.

 

It's always a good idea to make sure you are on the same page as the rest of us before commenting.

[Cricky]

21 hours ago, Don Mega said:

23 hours ago, VYCM said:

 

 

 

 

I know what Gasohol means, also its uses and when and where not to use.

 

Can you answer the question? - Why is gasohol at the Shell petrol stations selling 95 Gasohol (ethanol) for 5 baht more expensive?

 

Let’s keep focused, no need for info regarding Canada, petrol strimmer / warrantee or other issues.

Gasahol95  is 26.75 at Shell.... is everyone else selling for 21.75 ?

Ok, it's clear that nobody can answer the question highlighted above as I'm getting many comments but only waffle, so i'll assume the answer.

 

Why is gasohol at the Shell petrol stations selling 95 Gasohol (ethanol) for 5 baht more expensive?..............Greed

 

 

[nard]

2 or 3 tanks of shell fuel save then 1 of shell v power,helps keep the injectors clean

The fuel save gives slightly better mpg though

[stevenl]

On 1/12/2020 at 5:40 AM, Don Mega said:

You need to familiarise your self with the differences of cetane and Octane then you understand why Octane ratings are irrelevant with diesel fuel.

I was responding to this statement " Diesel have cetane rating but never octane rating ", which is incorrect according to the link I supplied.

[Suitcase]

On 1/11/2020 at 11:24 AM, action said:

I only use Shell V-power in my 2008 3.0L Vigo.  When I first got the truck I would use regular diesel for a few tanks and record the mileage, then use V-power for a few tanks.  I found that the V-power gave more mileage per baht.  Close to 400k on that truck and I've never... ever had a problem.

 

A long time ago a gear head told me the best thing for your engine is to use the same gas every time.  If you use PTT fuel, you should ALWAYS use PTT.  if you use Shell, you should Always use shell.  He said the different additives used by different companies can cause issues.  Not sure it's true but it couldn't hurt.

That is an old wives tale if I have ever heard one!

[rech]

On 1/12/2020 at 2:38 PM, sandyf said:

If you knew that you would have used the correct spec, E10, E20 or E85

 

What is the difference between 95 and E20 please ?

 

 

[Suitcase]

On 1/12/2020 at 9:42 AM, sandyf said:

"Gasohol" means it contains ethanol which can be 10% or 20%, not sure if that creates a price difference.

As far as I am aware only Thailand and Canada have widespread use of this type of fuel. The idea being that it keeps the engine clean by effectively wearing the metal away.

I have a petrol strimmer and the warranty prohibits the use of fuel with a higher than 5% ethanol content. I use Benzine, it is more expensive and becoming difficult to find.

You need to Google countries that use ethanol

The majority of the countries around the world use ethanol in their gasoline

Brazil uses 85% in all their fuel and there are some countries that go all the way to 100% ethanol

Where I live in the Midwest of the USA I can get anything from

E-10 up to E-85

[Suitcase]

On 1/12/2020 at 12:04 PM, Isaanbiker said:

Please buy the ordinary stuff everybody's buying. There's no fancy Super Diesel", it's only a lie.

 

  And that's from people who work at gas stations. 

If the people you’re asking at gas stations are here in Thailand I wouldn’t put too much faith in it

I don’t imagine most of those people pumping fuel have more than a grade school education

[Cricky]

2 hours ago, rech said:

 

What is the difference between 95 and E20 please ?

 

 

Octane 

[KhunBENQ]

2 hours ago, rech said:

What is the difference between 95 and E20 please ?

95 stands for octane rating.

E stands for ethanol.

Basically unrelated.

 

The usually sold "95" is "gasohol" 95 with 10% ethanol.

E20 is a 95 octane (or better) with 20% ethanol.

About all cars (non Diesel) produced in Thailand in the last 10 years or so are fit for E20.

 

To make confusion perfect, PTT still sells gasoline(petrol) without ethanol, also 95 octane.

Edited January 13, 2020 by KhunBENQ

[Coremouse]

On 1/12/2020 at 9:42 AM, sandyf said:

"Gasohol" means it contains ethanol which can be 10% or 20%, not sure if that creates a price difference.

As far as I am aware only Thailand and Canada have widespread use of this type of fuel. The idea being that it keeps the engine clean by effectively wearing the metal away.

I have a petrol strimmer and the warranty prohibits the use of fuel with a higher than 5% ethanol content. I use Benzine, it is more expensive and becoming difficult to find.

Bro Gasohol is E10, 20% they call E20 here. 

Most big power turbos run E85 nowadays, which is 85% alcohol. It is super beneficial to engine health and in some engines, the only way to prevent #ringlands without expensive forged internals is go E85. It does wear oil faster and require larger injectors / E85 proof fuel lines.

 

On 1/12/2020 at 10:07 AM, VYCM said:

 

 

 

 

I know what Gasohol means, also its uses and when and where not to use.

 

Can you answer the question? - Why is gasohol at the Shell petrol stations selling 95 Gasohol (ethanol) for 5 baht more expensive?

 

Let’s keep focused, no need for info regarding Canada, petrol strimmer / warrantee or other issues.

Esso also does this they sell gasohol95, also more expensive "supreme plus" gasohol95. They claim that had superior additives to protect the engine, personally I don't buy it if some fuels are superior they SHOULD be better base oil thus higher octane

 

Always envious the neighbour Malaysian guys, they got proper high octane V-Power, and with far cheaper price! 

[Coremouse]

19 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

95 stands for octane rating.

E stands for ethanol.

Basically unrelated.

 

The usually sold "95" is "gasohol" 95 with 10% ethanol.

E20 is a 95 octane (or better) with 20% ethanol.

About all cars (non Diesel) produced in Thailand in the last 10 years or so are fit for E20.

 

To make confusion perfect, PTT still sells gasoline(petrol) without ethanol, also 95 octane.

To find RON numbers for Thai E20 also got me confused. I know at least PTT is claiming their E20 using 98-99 oil base and thus have 98-99 RON: 

https://web1.pttplc.com/en/Products-Services/Consumer/For-Vehicle/PTT-Blue-Innovation/Pages/PTT-Gasohol-Blue-E20-Test.aspx

https://web1.pttplc.com/en/Products-Services/Consumer/For-Vehicle/PTT-Blue-Innovation/Pages/PTT-Blue-Innovation.aspx

 

I think E20 is generally safe to most cars, me currently driving a 25yr old daily I know her fuel system would fail with >40% alcohol, yet I run purely on E20 without any problem to date. 

[transam]

1 hour ago, Coremouse said:

Bro Gasohol is E10, 20% they call E20 here. 

Most big power turbos run E85 nowadays, which is 85% alcohol. It is super beneficial to engine health and in some engines, the only way to prevent #ringlands without expensive forged internals is go E85. It does wear oil faster and require larger injectors / E85 proof fuel lines.

 

Esso also does this they sell gasohol95, also more expensive "supreme plus" gasohol95. They claim that had superior additives to protect the engine, personally I don't buy it if some fuels are superior they SHOULD be better base oil thus higher octane

 

Always envious the neighbour Malaysian guys, they got proper high octane V-Power, and with far cheaper price! 

I thought base oil had nothing to do with octane, octane is achieved via additives..

 

https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/don't-confuse-gasoline-octane-and-quality

Edited January 14, 2020 by transam

[Don Mega]

1 hour ago, Coremouse said:

 

Most big power turbos run E85 nowadays, which is 85% alcohol. It is super beneficial to engine health and in some engines, the only way to prevent #ringlands without expensive forged internals is go E85. It does wear oil faster and require larger injectors / E85 proof fuel lines.

 

 

Whilst it wasn't Turbo I had my Mazda 3 tuned to run only on E85 (14to1 compression) and whilst the gains were modest (injector duty cycle limits) it made a real noticeable difference to daily driving... helped that I had the shift points in the box changed and both speed and rev limiter removed.

Down side was horribly bad fuel economy and E85 availability which then  gave me the perfect excuse to not drive to the inlaws !!

[Coremouse]

28 minutes ago, transam said:

I thought base oil had nothing to do with octane, octane is achieved via additives..

 

https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/don't-confuse-gasoline-octane-and-quality

I'm refering to base fuel regarding to alcohol blend, but excuse my inaccurate use of the term???? you get my point, it's such a waste if it's high-purity-high-quality gasoline and only give it 95 RON... Also I think high quality fuel like avgas not only high in purity, but also high isooctane content, thus inherently higher octane number even before adding lead?

 

Maybe those "supreme plus gasohol95" have more expensive detergent added, thus better for direct-injection cars? Heard they're more prone to carbon builtup - sensitive to fuel quality

[transam]

Way back in the days when cars had 16 cylinders and large ci's, they had very low HP, cos the gasoline was around 40 octane...????

[Tuvoc]

On 1/14/2020 at 8:08 AM, Coremouse said:

I think E20 is generally safe to most cars, me currently driving a 25yr old daily I know her fuel system would fail with >40% alcohol, yet I run purely on E20 without any problem to date. 

 

How long is "to date" ?

 

Many many cars aren't recommended to run on E20. For example my 15 year old BMW is not recommended to run more than 10% Ethanol. I investigated the issue because I was thinking of bringing it to Thailand, but that idea went out the window very quickly when I found out about the 200% or 300% tax etc.

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Tuvoc

[rambling]

Has anyone noticed that Diesel prices are now about 1 Baht higher than Gasohol (91/95)? That's new to me here in Thailand, used to be the opposite with Diesel being about 1B cheaper. Has there been some shift in policy?

[Coremouse]

4 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

 

How long is "to date" ?

 

Many many cars aren't recommended to run on E20. For example my 15 year old BMW is not recommended to run more than 10% Ethanol. I investigated the issue because I was thinking of bringing it to Thailand, but that idea went out the window very quickly when I found out about the 200% or 300% tax etc.

 

Started mixing e20/gh95 from mid 2018, and in feb 19 did a through inspection, filter/pump/tank seems in prime condition. Then started fill pure e20.

 

Though tbh haven't been driving recently as doing some new mods. Might need dismantle fuel tank again to mount trunk rad, if I do I'll snap some photos

[Cricky]

2 hours ago, rambling said:

Has anyone noticed that Diesel prices are now about 1 Baht higher than Gasohol (91/95)? That's new to me here in Thailand, used to be the opposite with Diesel being about 1B cheaper. Has there been some shift in policy?

Yep, a few years ago the government remove subsidies 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, VYCM said:

Yep, a few years ago the government remove subsidies 

To a certain extend. The government is keeping diesel within a certain range. At the moment with the strong Baht imports get cheaper, so gasohol also gets cheaper. Same goes for diesel, but since it is within the range the government can add a few Baht to use that to subsidise later when necessary.

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, VYCM said:

Yep, a few years ago the government remove subsidies

No.

The so called "oil fund" is the instrument to "balance" prices between different fuels. I had posted the graphic below on 26 Dec 2019.

Can be updated anytime.

"ULG" stands for petrol/benzene without ethanol.

Pays highest taxes and highest contribution to the oil fund (more than 6 Baht).

 

E85 is the most subsidised fuel, receiving more than 8 Baht from the oil fund. Retail price lower than ex-refinery price! If that is not subsidy, what else?

 

Standard Diesel only slightly preferred, B10 and B20 with more benefit from the fund. All intended to increase bio-fuel use.

 

(click to see full size)

Edited January 16, 2020 by KhunBENQ

[rambling]

Interesting data KhunBENQ. Looks like the diesel subsidies have move from the regular diesel to B10 and B20. I had a quick read around and the government is trying to help prop palm oil prices and turned B10 into the "standard" diesel. Too bad many cars can't use this stuff.

[Cricky]

On 1/16/2020 at 11:43 AM, KhunBENQ said:

On 1/16/2020 at 10:27 AM, VYCM said:

Yep, a few years ago the government remove subsidies

No.

YES,

 

i have no idea how long you have lived here but some subsidies were remove several years ago from Diesel fuel

[transam]

4 minutes ago, VYCM said:

YES,

 

i have no idea how long you have lived here but some subsidies were remove several years ago from Diesel fuel

Think you are wrong....Diesel in LOS is cheap...