Germany's other migration wave: the pensioner exodus

[chrisandsu]

1 minute ago, toast1 said:

>Millions of our OAPs live on about 6000 baht a week. That speaks for itself.

It certainly does.

 

They should have saved for their old age.
Saving just 800bt per week during your working years will give you a pension income.

 

Lazy, greedy people get what they deserve. 

And they blame the government.
 

While your pension is being supported by the printing machine . Let’s hope that printer doesn’t run out of ink . 

[toast1]

Those who are frugal, save and do not live beyond their means, retire to a comfortable life.

 

Everyone else blames the government, bankers or capitalism.

 

[brokenbone]

On 1/18/2020 at 12:12 AM, Cryingdick said:

It's like a frog in a boiling pot. How on God's green earth does somebody sit around for 4 or 5 decades and then suddenly realize they haven't prepared for retirement? 

 

The economic refugees also compound the problem as now they are a government expense and do not pay the taxes or contribute to their homeland. If you do personally I am not aiming this at you. I am talking about people who live solely off of government entitlements, never visit their home country, and have no other income source, except maybe a small savings. 

 

I can only speak for the situation in the USA but I feel that when you ditch America your SS should be cut. Living abroad is a privilege and a personal choice.

 

When pension schemes were thought up to give people basic security people weren't flying around the world. The money spent abroad doesn't feed the economy back home and creates a burden for the next generation who will not be lucky enough to receive benefits at the same age or if ever.

 

Government schemes are meant to aid retirement. Anybody in their right mind has separate investments to achieve a more comfortable retirement.

 

I just can't imagine sitting around for 40 or 50 years and then wake up one morning and conclude I had better move to Bulgaria. Do they not have retirement planners over there?

 

That's the problem. People think the government will take care of them and give it no more thought. When the government fails to provide anything other than the most basic existence they are in disbelief. 

 

This is nothing more than an equation. When you put the minimum in you get the minimum out. Oh, and don't assume the gubernment got your back with all dem entitlements.

 

 

 

 

 

i broke my back when i was early 20, and a long while after that i

got my early retirement insurance.

when exactly should i have prepared ?

 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, toast1 said:

Those who are frugal, save and do not live beyond their means, retire to a comfortable life.

 

Everyone else blames the government, bankers or capitalism.

 

I've met hundreds of Brits that earned so little they lived hand to mouth all their lives while working very hard just to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. Suggesting they were lazy and should have saved is just a load of nonsense.

 

[micmichd]

13 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The enemy of every working man is cheap foreign labour allowed into countries to undercut the locals wages and destroy their standard of living.

There are unions in Germany that make sure you don't get underpaid or cheated in some other way. Immigrant workers should be obliged to become members of these unions when they want a work-permit. Maybe there are social institutions in Germany now to protect immigrant workers from being stripped off their rights. But the native German workers should also get empowered to fight for their individual rights (not just for their ethnic privileges) 

[chrisandsu]

31 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I've met hundreds of Brits that earned so little they lived hand to mouth all their lives while working very hard just to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. Suggesting they were lazy and should have saved is just a load of nonsense.

 

Only someone who was born with a silver spoon rammed up their <deleted> could make a comment like his . Im sure he’s the type that’s worked in an office his whole life and believes the working man should work until 70 to get his pittance of a pension . I’m 40 and feel sorry for the old timers and can’t believe that someone would want to see another suffer in their later years . 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, toast1 said:

>Millions of our OAPs live on about 6000 baht a week. That speaks for itself.

It certainly does.

 

They should have saved for their old age.
Saving just 800bt per week during your working years will give you a pension income.

 

Lazy, greedy people get what they deserve. 

And they blame the government.
 

I guess you think everyone has spare cash they can put to savings.

[micmichd]

14 hours ago, sirineou said:

how more explicit can I get? 

The 1% who controls 82% of the wealth. Divide 18% among 99% percent of the population and.................... 

But why am I wasting my breath.

Yes you are right it's the immigrants and the refugees. if only

y the UK could gets its empire back you too could be screwing people all over the world and England can be a lovely country again, and bare "the white man's burden" .

I am sure brexit will solve everything for you. 

Did it ever come into your mind that maybe the rich you're complaining about bear "the white man's burden" in the Global South? 

It's done by charity - we don't wait for laws that force us. I don't. And I hated it when people in Heidelberg (West Germany) came up to me and yelled "You made your money in Germany, so it's our money" while everyone know it was my intention since 1970 to go back to Asia and settle there - back to the continent where they cared for me when I was poor, while these Germans speculated on my death in Asia.  Why should I have any empathy for these Germans that actually never liked me ever since I was born and finally ended up again with utter hate speech against my gf of colour? 

[micmichd]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I've met hundreds of Brits that earned so little they lived hand to mouth all their lives while working very hard just to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. Suggesting they were lazy and should have saved is just a load of nonsense.

 

And I meet lots of Thais every day that live hand to mouth without any realistic expectation for OAP - and they don't complain. 

Why should only the ones that permanently complain get sufficient OAP? 

 

The old German couple in the OP don't really complain. They just describe their situation like it is. And they obviously found a solution. I wish them good luck. 

[sirineou]

18 minutes ago, micmichd said:

Did it ever come into your mind that maybe the rich you're complaining about bear "the white man's burden" in the Global South? 

It's done by charity - we don't wait for laws that force us. I don't. And I hated it when people in Heidelberg (West Germany) came up to me and yelled "You made your money in Germany, so it's our money" while everyone know it was my intention since 1970 to go back to Asia and settle there - back to the continent where they cared for me when I was poor, while these Germans speculated on my death in Asia.  Why should I have any empathy for these Germans that actually never liked me ever since I was born and finally ended up again with utter hate speech against my gf of colour? 

They  take all their wealth and then you throw them some crumbs and they should be grateful. LOL

The only point I tried to make in relationship to this thread is that it's a shame that people work a lifetime to build a country and when it cones time to retire, they cant even afford to live there.

 and when they look at people to blame, looking at the immigrants and at the refugees is a mistake because they are a small percentage of a small percentage of the wealth distribution scheme, The solution is in the 82% of the wealth pie. 

It is really a simple concept, not my fault if some of you guys cant understand the math. 

[micmichd]

32 minutes ago, sirineou said:

They  take all their wealth and then you throw them some crumbs and they should be grateful. LOL

The only point I tried to make in relationship to this thread is that it's a shame that people work a lifetime to build a country and when it cones time to retire, they cant even afford to live there.

 and when they look at people to blame, looking at the immigrants and at the refugees is a mistake because they are a small percentage of a small percentage of the wealth distribution scheme, The solution is in the 82% of the wealth pie. 

It is really a simple concept, not my fault if some of you guys cant understand the math. 

I'm a mathematician, but your math is obviously national while mine is intercontinental - or multicultural if you want it that way. 

Do you have any idea about game theory and the underlying paradigm? 

 

It's very easy to cry for a change of rules because you've lost the game. Too easy for a mathematician. There is no such thing as Western mathematics, and those working individuals you talk about certainly didn't work to build up "their country" (after having done everything to destroy it)

What you want is in fact religion (protestant ethics) 

Where was your religious empathy when the British colonialized India? Where was it when the USA invaded Vietnam? Were these Germans ever ready for a grassroot revolution against their government? 

 

Structural violence is <deleted>, yes I know. But on the other side there's economic and medical progress now in the Global South. And of course, there's Western money in it. 

If you want a grassroot revolution in the West, then go ahead and make one. But don't expect everyone to wait for it. 

[Gandtee]

On 1/18/2020 at 4:21 AM, chrisandsu said:

When a country spends more money on housing , feeding , healthcare , police , on a section of the country who will contribute next to nothing other then a kebab then they do on their own people who created the prosperity then they should be ashamed . 

Much the same as in the UK. Will those German pensioners get their pensions frozen when they move I wonder?????

[micmichd]

6 minutes ago, Gandtee said:

Much the same as in the UK. Will those German pensioners get their pensions frozen when they move I wonder?????

No. Their pensions will increase annually like all German pensions. 

[justin case]

_{TV, where rich white dudes with golden pensions come to complain}

 

_{my mother worked all her adult life, and raised me as a single mom}

 

she worked half time and she does not even get 900 euros

 

what do illegals & their parents get ... 750 euros at least for doing nothing + everything for free (healthcare, electricity, insurance, ...)

[Opl]

5 hours ago, sirineou said:

They  take all their wealth and then you throw them some crumbs and they should be grateful. LOL

The only point I tried to make in relationship to this thread is that it's a shame that people work a lifetime to build a country and when it cones time to retire, they cant even afford to live there.

 and when they look at people to blame, looking at the immigrants and at the refugees is a mistake because they are a small percentage of a small percentage of the wealth distribution scheme, The solution is in the 82% of the wealth pie. 

It is really a simple concept, not my fault if some of you guys cant understand the math. 

It's not the numbers in average that count, it's the impact on their everyday life, their immediate neighborhood, that contributes to the people's perception- with good reasons - of their own impoverishment. If your social environment is downgraded, then so are you.     

[bristolboy]

On 1/17/2020 at 10:21 PM, chrisandsu said:

When a country spends more money on housing , feeding , healthcare , police , on a section of the country who will contribute next to nothing other then a kebab then they do on their own people who created the prosperity then they should be ashamed . 

An extremely simple-minded take on the status of Muslim refugees in Germany. If you're interested in actual data, you might start with this article:

The State of Refugee Integration in Germany in 2019

https://wenr.wes.org/2019/08/the-state-of-refugee-integration-in-germany-in-2019

And it is a disgrace that the German government doesn't spend more on its pensioners. Especially given that Germany has consistently been running budget surpluses.

[Number 6]

Pension seems way too low for them. I retired at 43 and I'm on track to get 850usd pm retiring at 62. No way can US benefits be (so much) better than Germany.

 

Not buying the story at all.

 

 

I made what I thought would hold me till 90 and got out. Working is a total racket. Taxes + expenses living in a metro area. Worked since 15 PT. It's not about being lazy, it's about not working for the state. Make your money work for you. Get out of the system.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Number 6

[chrisandsu]

13 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

An extremely simple-minded take on the status of Muslim refugees in Germany. If you're interested in actual data, you might start with this article:

The State of Refugee Integration in Germany in 2019

https://wenr.wes.org/2019/08/the-state-of-refugee-integration-in-germany-in-2019

And it is a disgrace that the German government doesn't spend more on its pensioners. Especially given that Germany has consistently been running budget surpluses.

Was a bit pointless don’t you think ? They spent over 20 billion euros to receive what ? What is the true cost ? Prisons? Counter terrorisim? Welfare? Housing ? The true cost is enormous .

[micmichd]

46 minutes ago, justin case said:

_{TV, where rich white dudes with golden pensions come to complain}

 

_{my mother worked all her adult life, and raised me as a single mom}

 

she worked half time and she does not even get 900 euros

 

what do illegals & their parents get ... 750 euros at least for doing nothing + everything for free (healthcare, electricity, insurance, ...)

"rich white dudes with golden pensions"? 

You must be joking. Many old age pensioners here in this thread get apparently less than your mother, and they have been working full time (not only half time)  

Those that have a bit more support single Thai mums or their children very often. You wouldn't care about the situation of single Thai mums, but we do (I'm not the only one) 

 

The benefits for refugees you mention are per family, not per capita. And many are simply doing nothing because your bureaucracy doesn't allow them to work. 

 

You are blaming the wrong ones. 

[micmichd]

32 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Pension seems way too low for them. I retired at 43 and I'm on track to get 850usd pm retiring at 62. No way can US benefits be (so much) better than Germany.

 

Not buying the story at all.

 

 

I made what I thought would hold me till 90 and got out. Working is a total racket. Taxes + expenses living in a metro area. Worked since 15 PT. It's not about being lazy, it's about not working for the state. Make your money work for you. Get out of the system.

"Make your money work for you"

Good idea, but not possible. Money doesn't work for money, only humans do. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by micmichd

[toast1]

A lot of whining and whingeing from guys who did not save when they were young and fine themselves broke.

 

Blaming everyone else but themselves.

 

 

However, what chrisandsu said about the cost of immigration is true. It has devastated many parts of Europe and ruined many lives of those who worked and paid tax, only to find that money given to those who have not paid in

Edited January 19, 2020 by toast1

[micmichd]

27 minutes ago, toast1 said:

A lot of whining and whingeing from guys who did not save when they were young and fine themselves broke.

 

Blaming everyone else but themselves.

 

 

However, what chrisandsu said about the cost of immigration is true. It has devastated many parts of Europe and ruined many lives of those who worked and paid tax, only to find that money given to those who have not paid in

Your last chapter may be right (I don't know the current situation in Germany) But the label of sheer scroungers also applies to many native Germans. That's why I'd suggest tax money for nobody that doesn't work. And then they could lower the taxes so the active wuorkers would have more money in their pockets. 

 

Sorry for the families, but capitalism wasn't invented for families. 

If there's welfare for all, then this should be welfare worldwide. 

I'm sure the Thai lady I'm with would love children's allowance and free tertiary tuition for her daughter. 

 

Do you get any idea how much must be done to achieve equality worldwide?

[jaideedave]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 3:20 AM, candide said:

You conveniently omitted a part of the quote in order to support your prejudiced view. The exact quote is:

"Others in that category interviewed by Reuters here cited the perception that asylum seekers were getting more financial support than pensioners."

Others...perception...

 

More generally, Germany's problem is the decrease of population so that there are not enough young people to pay for old people's pensions. Immigration is the only way for Germany to finance pensions and to maintain growth.

 

[jaideedave]

Why would the freeloading economic refugees want to support the senior citizens in the future? They are only there to exploit the system. Most are unemployable at any rate.

They only want the benefits and could give a toss about the elders.

This Global concept on immigration is totally f----d up. 

Europe has been totally downgraded thanks to Merkal. 

Canada is heading down the same path with Trudope at the helm. Look up Roxham Rd illegal entry point into Canada.

Lots of bennies available to refugee claimants for sure.

*welfare

*medical/dental

*accommodations (Radisson in Toronto hotel)

* room and board*

If your asylum claim is successful you are allowed to bring over all members of your immediate family! mom, dad,sons and daughters, and of course your grandparents.   

BTW_ If your claim is denied you may get a tax payer lawyer to represent you .

Is it any wonder why I moved away 16 years ago.  

Thanks Justin Trudeau....trust fund baby

     

 

[sirocco]

candid, you're kidding, aren't you, when you write that Germany needs immigration to increase its population and fund pensions.
Again, immigrants should want to work.
But apparently, "work" is a word they have deleted from their vocabulary.
As for the increase in the population, they do not need advice or suggestions, each woman makes, on average, 8.5 children.
Why work, when they are helped excessively.
  In addition, they demonstrate when they feel that the government is not doing enough.
And Germany will have to rely on them?
But you seriously live in another world.
Let us abolish all these privileges and you will see that the migratory flow will stop soon enough

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.  

 

[micmichd]

6 hours ago, sirocco said:

candid, you're kidding, aren't you, when you write that Germany needs immigration to increase its population and fund pensions.
Again, immigrants should want to work.
But apparently, "work" is a word they have deleted from their vocabulary.
As for the increase in the population, they do not need advice or suggestions, each woman makes, on average, 8.5 children.
Why work, when they are helped excessively.
  In addition, they demonstrate when they feel that the government is not doing enough.
And Germany will have to rely on them?
But you seriously live in another world.
Let us abolish all these privileges and you will see that the migratory flow will stop soon enough

Then - if you stop the migratory flow - you would have to force all native Germans to work. No more unemployment benefits (Hartz IV), no more benefits for education (BAfoeG), no more child allowances (Kindergeld) Because the necessary work must be done by someone. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/18/2020 at 6:12 AM, Cryingdick said:

It's like a frog in a boiling pot. How on God's green earth does somebody sit around for 4 or 5 decades and then suddenly realize they haven't prepared for retirement? 

You obviously don't understand how a socialist country works. I was told my entire life that if I worked hard and paid my tax, when I retired I'd be looked after. That was a lie, but I unfortunately believed it.

It used to be true for my parent's generation, but the capitalist <deleted> that took over the government raised the cost of housing to the extent it's unaffordable for anyone on a pension. Hence people living in cars, if lucky enough to have a car large enough. When even working people can't afford to rent, the pensioners are screwed.

I anticipate the number of suicides will rise dramatically in the next decade as baby boomers retire en mass.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, micmichd said:

Then - if you stop the migratory flow - you would have to force all native Germans to work. No more unemployment benefits (Hartz IV), no more benefits for education (BAfoeG), no more child allowances (Kindergeld) Because the necessary work must be done by someone. 

Unemployment should never be paid to able bodied people of working age. If they can't find work, the state should provide work that is menial, so they get further education or similar to be able to find a proper job.

Giving people the dole to do nothing has destroyed society, IMO, by creating a bludger class that won't work. NZ has to import people to pick fruit because many unemployed people are so work shy employers won't even take them on.

IMO western governments should be encouraging the elderly to emigrate, as it removes that most costly demographic from public health care, and frees up housing for working people. Sadly, some western governments deny pensions to those that want to move to countries such as Thailand, which is why I had to return home to a very much worse life than I had in LOS.

[JustAnotherHun]

The average pension of German men is about 1.100 € (ca. 33.000 THB), German women's average is about 800 € (26.400 THB). These are the people that worked their whole life and rebuilt Germany after ww2.

 

Any more questions about a country whose regime is floating the social security system with 1.5 million mostly illiterate migrants from <deleted>hole countries since 2015?

Edited January 20, 2020 by JustAnotherHun