Cocktail of flu, HIV drugs appears to help fight coronavirus: Thai doctors

[FarFlungFalang]

1 hour ago, dallen52 said:

Good news 11am 03/02 on the box, is that Italian scientists have isolated the virus and will share the results with the rest of the world...

Is that similar to what occurred in Australia a few days ago as reported here?

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-29/wuhan-coronavirus-created-in-australian-lab-outside-of-china/11906390

[sawadee1947]

1 minute ago, RJRS1301 said:

We shall all rest so much better with that endosement 

You mean Rest In Peace??? ????

[RJRS1301]

5 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Is that similar to what occurred in Australia a few days ago as reported here?

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-29/wuhan-coronavirus-created-in-australian-lab-outside-of-china/11906390

You mean the one that was from Canada????

[Pedrogaz]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

Can farangs find anything positive about Thailand? Nowhere did they say it was a cure , and used the qualifier "seems too" , What is so bad about that? It seems pretty reasonable to me that they would report their experience so far, but make no claims other than what the saw so far.

All this negativity is really annoying. 

I understand your frustration about the negativity about Thais and Thailand....but this is not how drugs and treatments are developed. You do proper controlled of compassionate use protocols and wait until the study is finished before announcing the results to the public. 

This is anecdotal evidence, and anecdotal evidence only...it has little or no scientific value other than to formulae an hypothesis that one can then test in a proper study.

The other thing is that the Chinese have been using antiretrovirals for a few weeks already. This our top makes out that Thailand has actually done something novel, which is not actually true.

There have been reports that the new coronavirus has genetic and protein components of the HIV virus, so the use of anti-retrovirals could represent a treatment approach. Sadly, if this is the case then the virus is man-made and probably part of a biological weapons program, released either accidentally by the Chinese or intentionally by a foreign power trying to injure the economy and bargaining power of China.

[jwbrit]

Well, China must only be counting cases for those that they know of, that are reporting to a doctor/hospital, but I've not seen any stats for those that have recovered and gone home or how many cases are actually Active.

[delgarcon]

I spoke to my son in England yesterday and said that I couldn't believe that there were still only 19 cases in Thailand. He said that he read somewhere that numbers are being withheld until the 9th Feb, which coincidentally marks the end of the Chinese N Y.

Does anybody really give a toss about the people living in this country?

Edited February 3, 2020 by delgarcon
I meant to quote the person that I was answering

[Krataiboy]

Prevention is better than cure. Masks don't seem to work, so it's back to the good old amulet.

[ThomasThBKK]

13 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

I understand your frustration about the negativity about Thais and Thailand....but this is not how drugs and treatments are developed. You do proper controlled of compassionate use protocols and wait until the study is finished before announcing the results to the public. 

This is anecdotal evidence, and anecdotal evidence only...it has little or no scientific value other than to formulae an hypothesis that one can then test in a proper study.

The other thing is that the Chinese have been using antiretrovirals for a few weeks already. This our top makes out that Thailand has actually done something novel, which is not actually true.

There have been reports that the new coronavirus has genetic and protein components of the HIV virus, so the use of anti-retrovirals could represent a treatment approach. Sadly, if this is the case then the virus is man-made and probably part of a biological weapons program, released either accidentally by the Chinese or intentionally by a foreign power trying to injure the economy and bargaining power of China.

 

What a load....

 

 

For everyone with a brain who wants to know how this works, read top comment here: 

 

[DrTuner]

Just now, Krataiboy said:

Prevention is better than cure. Masks don't seem to work, so it's back to the good old amulet.

I'm surprised nobody hasn't yet suggested flying to China to get immunity. Unless you croak, ought to be bulletproof.

[Sheryl]

As usual lots of posting by people who failed to carefully read the article.

 

Nobody claiming to have cured Corona virus.

 

The same treatment is already being used in China. Not first done in Thailand. Also likely being done (for severe cases) in most other countries as well. 

 

It is only logical to try to treat patients who are critically ill with a viral disease with known antiviral dtugs.

 

The only appatent diffetence between what was already being done in China and what was done hete sounds like they may have used a higher dose on the Tamiflu. 

 

Only 3 patients thus treated, of whom one had an adverse reaction to the medication and 2 improved. Obviously way too few cases to draw any conclusions as the doctors involved cleatly state. 

 

Non story. Just the media being overly hungry for any morsel of info on the virus and hyping things.

[DrTuner]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Non story. Just the media being overly hungry for any morsel of info on the virus and hyping things.

They were publishing a paper, so looks more like a run for quick glory than media making things up.

[JHolmesJr]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Nobody claiming to have cured Corona virus.

 

Read a headline on yahoo that claimed just that:

 

THAILAND CURES CORONAVIRUS.

 

How %^^$%^ irresponsible.....hw these cretins call themselves journalists

I'll never know.

 

Even a luddite like me knows you dont say such things until certain strict medical criteria

have been met.

[Sheryl]

It's not the medi al establishment making such claims. Just irresponsible journalism.

 

Yahoo and other social media  is not where to go for reliable news. For that try the NY times, Washington Post, Guardian, Economist, etc etc.

[Jingthing]

Hi there, Sheryl.

Would you mind posting your opinion on mask wearing and the types of masks people should be wearing and when, flimsy surgical ones vs. the N95 ones, etc.?

[Ventenio]

I would ask people to google "Thailand cure Coronavirus"  There are a few places that said they found a cure, or that they have successfully treated (cured) a patient.  I don't think it's unreasonable to do our normal comedy regarding news that we have no control over.  I don't think any of us actually thinks Thailand has found a cure.

 

Anyhow, it's just a wait-and-see......I'm going to Wuhan tonight to do some filming for my youtube channel.  I need views and likes!!!  Then i get sick and do patreon and gofundme and get a few weeks free....and this is how internet posting works.  

 

 

 

[tifino]

3 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

All natural apart from eating the bats!

there's nothing much 'natural' in what you get served up over in China... Bats would be just about the only thing they could not properly simulate

 

[tifino]

1 minute ago, Ventenio said:

google "Thailand cure Coronavirus"  There are a few places that said they found a cure, or that they have successfully treated (cured) a patient. 

 whatever condition the patient(s) had,

was either something else;

or that the viral cycle they were undergoing simply ran it's cure -irrespective of what ever the Drs were really at a LOS what to do...

[Haecksler]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

http://research.uga.edu/docs/policies/compliance/hso/Guidance-on-Emergency-and-Off-Label-Use-of-Drugs-Biologics-and-Medical-Devices.pdf

 

Off label use is totally fine in emergency situations, it is often even paid by insurance companies (cancer treatments etc).

 

 

I think, if you ever get this, you should refuse the doctors if they offer you this medicine. Just to make a point.

 

Please read what the OP wrote: "Rather, they had the opportunity to observe and to participate with the rest of the world in an ethical clinical trial. The Chinese published in Lancet and allowed for peer review."

And this is the headline:"Cocktail of flu, HIV drugs appears to help fight coronavirus: Thai doctors"

I think your post is irrelevant. They apply the drug because there was an emergency and they might save her live. But that was not published as so and nobody knows why the conditions improved. To many ?? to claim to found a drug "to help fight coronavirus"

@rabas  Excellent posts all of them outstanding work!!
I have some small knowledge about of bacteria infections which is highly depending on the concentration / amount of bacteria entering your body. You mentioned that "If only only one virus entering your lung you won't get infected." So that means a virus infection is also depending on the concentration / amount of microbes entering your system? I assume that only because of this reason any mask would be useful.

[FarFlungFalang]

1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

You mean the one that was from Canada????

I might mean that one any links to the one from Canada whilst I do a quick search?

[PremiumLane]

5 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

I would ask people to google "Thailand cure Coronavirus"  There are a few places that said they found a cure, or that they have successfully treated (cured) a patient.  I don't think it's unreasonable to do our normal comedy regarding news that we have no control over.  I don't think any of us actually thinks Thailand has found a cure.

 

Anyhow, it's just a wait-and-see......I'm going to Wuhan tonight to do some filming for my youtube channel.  I need views and likes!!!  Then i get sick and do patreon and gofundme and get a few weeks free....and this is how internet posting works.  

 

 

 

That would be like seeing an official news report on a story that says one thing, then going on to TVF and seeing some unsubstantiated opinions then thinking the TVF one must be correct

[Levanter]

 

1 hour ago, ICELANDMAN said:

For many days ago that Chinese doctors wrote that in the genome there are traits of the IHV codes and that they also use this antiviral to try to heal the sick, now the great victory of Thai doctors in a big scoop, maybe now the sick and healed of the coronavirius, brilliant doc.now you have AIDS

Not sure how to unpack this statement. Please correct me if I misunderstood you.

 

First, drugs against HIV don't contain anything that is related to the virus. Taking anti-HIV medication won't give you AIDS.

 

Secondly, the genetic code consists of a string of nucleic acids. Unlike the English alphabet which uses 26 letters to form a dizzying array of words and sentences, the genetic code uses only four nucleic acids: A, T, G, and C (or A, U, G, and C for RNA) to encode everything. There are only so many permutations of four building blocks, and if you search for short enough strings, you'll find something that is similar. That doesn't mean that this coronavirus is part HIV, just as you aren't part mosquito. 

 

Thirdly, the antiviral drugs work not because coronavirus is part HIV, but because there are functions that both viruses need to have, and the drugs seem to be able to block these functions on both viruses. A sink drain and a toilet are two different things, but a huge wad of toilet paper will block both just the same.

 

1 hour ago, rabas said:

A mask is not made of little holes of a given size and smaller things automatically pass through. It's more like trying to run through a forest at night wearing a suit made of double sided sticky tape. Also, small viral particles (0.10um) are mostly inside larger droplets or, even if dry, are gummed up with sticky mucus or clumped together. They are not 0.1um steel balls. Thus all masks provide some protection against exposure, and none are absolutely perfect. I would wear one in any area where people were sneezing or coughing.

 

IOW, if 10 droplets, 3 with a virus particle hit your cheap mask that only caught 90%, chances are you will not get the virus. Also, just because one particle gets in your lungs does not mean you will get it.

 

 

Great clarification. A surgical mask isn't perfect by any means, but viruses don't hang out in the air by themselves either. Masks will help prevent infection from airborne droplets carrying virus particles.

 

1 hour ago, mindfulness said:

No news on extracting antibodies and make a serum from those who have pulled through ? 

Nope, but interestingly, a recent paper from German researchers (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.31.929042v1.full.pdf; note: not yet peer-reviewed) describes what the virus uses to enter human cells. Apparently, it is the same receptor as SARS-CoV, and antibodies from people who recovered from SARS was able to block the virus from entering cells.

 

N.B. Experiments were done in cell culture, not humans, so it doesn't mean that antibody to SARS-CoV will be protective. But it is quite interesting and could possibly mean that people who previously contracted SARS-CoV will not get sick (or get very mild symptoms) if they come into contact with nCoV.

 

30 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

There have been reports that the new coronavirus has genetic and protein components of the HIV virus, so the use of anti-retrovirals could represent a treatment approach. Sadly, if this is the case then the virus is man-made and probably part of a biological weapons program, released either accidentally by the Chinese or intentionally by a foreign power trying to injure the economy and bargaining power of China.

Firstly, the fact that antiretrovirals work doesn't necessarily mean the nCoV has components of HIV.

 

And while man-made viruses are a thing (we make plenty of weird chimeras and mutants in our lab, because they help us understand how the viruses work, but in turn the viruses generally become highly unviable in nature), it is also pretty easily to tell. It usually involves mixing sections of different viruses together, so there isn't a real gradient in sequence changes like a virus that arises from the wild. It is also possible to just grow the virus over a long period of time and let it change naturally by itself that way, but at the stage of scientific knowledge that we are at right now, we don't have the ability to know if something will be dangerous to humans or not or control for such an outcome. 

 

Thirdly, those releasing a respiratory virus with high transmission and low mortality rates (like the nCoV appears to be) as a bioweapon is just going to hurt themselves because such a virus is going to get everywhere. There are better pathogens to weaponize. 

 

So, man-made deliberate release? Well ... there are better conspiracy theories out there. 

[OffshoreMig]

34 minutes ago, Haecksler said:

I think your post is irrelevant.

I read elsewhere that there is connection between HIV and the Herbies virus.

Those who catch this virus can have it in the system for year rt some and that symptoms will manifest when the immune system is under stress. 
 

Quote

Two days ago, a paper published in the Biorxiv.org journal presented findings that indicated the coronavirus appeared to be engineered with “key structural proteins” of HIV. The paper, entitled, “Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120

In any event we have to act on the advice. I try and minimise visits to public buildings, use of lifts etc.  Prudence is the operative word.  Hopefully we will see this latest viral scare die down as was the case with SARS.  But I would not dismiss it.   To would be foolish to do so,  Yes the greatest scare is pandemonium. 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by OffshoreMig

[Caldera]

Whenever there's an international health crisis, you can rest assured that some Thai quacks will come out, boasting that they've found a cure.

 

I recall, at the very least, Thai rabies and dengue cures. I'm just wondering why I don't recall any Thai Nobel Prize laureates, in medicine or in fact in general.

[FarFlungFalang]

Just found this interesting stat with 71% of the cases outside of China are/were male.

 

Age and conditions of Coronavirus cases 

According to the WHO Situation Report no. 7 issued on Jan. 27: 

• The median age of cases detected outside of China is 45 years, ranging from 2 to 74 years.
• 71% of cases were male.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

[schvonsky1]

11 hours ago, AndrewMciver said:

That's really not going to reassure everyone - associate treatment for the virus to one of the most scariest/misunderstood illness's there is. 

 

 

So one of the most scariest ya however cancer more deathly than hiv ask ya self which would you prefer to have ☝????

[ThaiBunny]

5 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Whenever there's an international health crisis, you can rest assured that some Thai quacks will come out, boasting that they've found a cure.  

I recall, at the very least, Thai rabies and dengue cures. I'm just wondering why I don't recall any Thai Nobel Prize laureates, in medicine or in fact in general.

Don't forget the Thai scientist who said that Thailand had no reason to worry about rising sea levels resulting from any melting of the polar ice caps because Thailand is too far away

[A Los for words]

They had me at 'cocktail'. I'll start there and see if I need anything else. It will go nicely with the tissue of lies and pocketful of dreams.

[Bell1234]

Laughing ????????????????

[Haecksler]

And meanwhile the virus might spread already and no updated numbers are out. This scares the s....t out of me.

I mean to be frank using logical thinking and common senses why on earth shouldn't this virus spread in Thailand knowing the given circumstances.

So please Thai Government make the right thing and inform the public about the current situation.

[webfact]

Rajavithi Hospital success in curing coronavirus patient is 'a controlled trial'

By The Nation

 

 

The success Rajavithi Hospital had in trying a combination of medicines to cure a patient carrying the novel coronavirus is a controlled trial and not certified yet as a cure, doctors said.

 

On Saturday (February 2), a medical team had told a press conference held by the Ministry of Public Health that a 70-year-old Chinese woman showing the novel coronavirus symptoms and admitted to Rajavithi Hospital on January 29 had shown improvement.

 

Dr Kriangsak Atipornvanich and Assoc Prof Dr Suebsai Kongsangdao said that the cure took 48 hours before the coronavirus was removed from secretions in the respiratory system.

 

“This is not a cure,” Dr Kriangska said. One of the patients received the same treatment but showed allergic reactions. However, the doctors said the result was satisfactory.

 

The cocktail of drugs includes Oseltamivir that is usually prescribed for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome together with Lopinavir and Ritonavir, which is administered for HIV cases.

 

Lopinavir and Ritonavir have been used internationally to fight the novel coronavirus.

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30381485

 

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