UK plans to introduce border controls on EU goods after post-Brexit transition

[Jare]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Brexit funded by billionaires, multimillionaires and shady overseas money is a fight for ordinary working people is one such example.

As opposed to Remain being funded by billionaires, multimillionaires and shady overseas money and being a fight against ordinary working people.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Jare

[samran]

26 minutes ago, Jare said:

1984 is the left-wing playbook, sadly so few of them have ever read it, understood it, or both.

You do understand that 1984 was a critique of the statist left, don't you?

The same statist left that believes religiously in the EU.

Drawing lots of long bows there. Tyranny can come from anywhere and in the end it all looks the same. Rewriting history is a common tactic.

 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Oven ready deal ????

But you Brexiteers have not limited yourselves to just slogans used by Johnson have you?

The oven ready deal referred to the WA and Bill. Water already under the bridge and in the sea. Done. Next.

[englishoak]

Brave new world Author Huxley had a student called Orwell who wrote 1984....obviously one was very much influenced by the other. Both are about socialist ideology and the ultimate outcome and both were a guidebook to those in/with power as much as a warning to those without.

 

Both used to be required reading when I was in school. I wonder how many without power have read them both these days, a tiny amount ill bet, yet they continue to be quoted and lauded by those with power and wealth... i cant think why... 

[Rookiescot]

43 minutes ago, englishoak said:

You just dont pay attention do you ?   one more time for the hard of learning then......

 

Im NOT a Unionist, im an English patriot and separatist but also a realist.

 

Yes the lawyers exist and they are true blue Scots independent Patriots like Ruamrudy here.  We have much in common, have great debates and game play likely outcomes over political and other matters. If your a plastic jock just wanting to remain in the EU then it would explain your disbelief that true patriots have far more in common than plastic ones.  

 

Stay mad lad... 

True patriots? What is this the 1930's?

I dont care what you think. Your opinion as an English nationalist does not concern me.

[Nigel Garvie]

7 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You're right that Corbyn was the reason why so many Labour voters could not vote for Labour in the GE. But those die-hard socialists usually would gouge their own eyes out before voting Conservative. But they voted for Boris. 

 

You might say nobody in Europe is impressed by the Tory majority. But cast your mind back just a few months, and think about how the outside world saw the UK Parliament. Remain Tory MPs continually blocking government bills, lawyers taking the government to court, the Speaker making up rules to scupper any progress on Brexit, the place was a laughing stock! 

Compare that to what we have now - a functioning government getting things done. 

I'm happy for you that you love your "Functioning government". However it is a clear sign of weakness when the PM is incapable of living within earshot if dissenting voices, and allows Cummings to go ahead with his Stalinist style purge. Ideological purity is now as much a curse of the far right as it has long been of the far left. Boris is so very Trumpian in his feeble inability to cope with criticism. 

 

However more to the point almost all your so called die-hard socialists did vote for Corbyn, it was a significant proportion of the middle of the road folk who turned to Boris. UK elections (And most elsewhere I guess) have always been won in the middle ground, by attracting the floating voter. Blair understood that perfectly.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Nigel Garvie

[Nigel Garvie]

3 hours ago, Jare said:

Read Orwell's Politics and the English Language, when you can, between posts. Orwell was a critic of the left, and the recent illiterate attempts to try and claim him for the left are laughable and only go to prove him right.

Maybe you should try, Homage to Catalonia, The road to Wigan Pier, Burmese days. 

Orwell was well to the left of centre. Like many of his generation he was initially attracted to aspects of communism, and like them he was disillusioned by Stalinism. Animal Farm was his direct critique of communist Russia, and compulsory reading for schoolchildren. 1984 was much more directed at all authoritarian government, both of left and right. 

I was on good terms with his sister and his brother in law, who I used to serve at a bar in mid Argyll. I have stood in the room where he wrote 1984, it is the last house you reach at the north end of Jura.

[englishoak]

45 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

 

 it was a significant proportion of the middle of the road folk who turned to Boris. UK elections (And most elsewhere I guess) have always been won in the middle ground, by attracting the floating voter. Blair understood that perfectly.

Very true, except Blair had little understanding of the electorate, he was a good speaker not much else... Alistair Campbell was the man who understood  there was a floating middle ground and exploited it, Blair smartly did as told and got the results. Dominic Cummings has done exactly the same for Boris but with technological data, galvanised the forgotten ignored potential voters, not just the floaters and got Boris the result and overwhelming mandate. 

 

There are rather striking similarities between Anthony and Alexander in their road to power on the advice and directive of respective spin doctors and advisers... Campbell was the media spin guru of his time and Cummings is todays. Whereas Campbell only had the MSM and news headlines, Cummings with modern technology and massive data behind him is likely to be even more formidable. 

Edited February 14, 2020 by englishoak

[CG1 Blue]

57 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I'm happy for you that you love your "Functioning government". However it is a clear sign of weakness when the PM is incapable of living within earshot if dissenting voices, and allows Cummings to go ahead with his Stalinist style purge. Ideological purity is now as much a curse of the far right as it has long been of the far left. Boris is so very Trumpian in his feeble inability to cope with criticism. 

Theresa May decided to appoint a fair split of leavers and remainers. That resulted in constant in-fighting and got us nowhere for 3.5 years. Boris / Cummings had a clear out, and ensured all ministers were pulling in the same direction. We then had a GE in which the public were given the chance to oppose this approach - and we all know the result. 

 

I don't see how you can call this a Stalinist style purge. Please explain. 

[Rookiescot]

7 hours ago, englishoak said:

You clearly dont know the meaning of the word patriot.  

Your pretence at being a patriotic Scot dosnt fool me or most true blue patriots for that matter.  Thats why Scotland imo will not be going anywhere near the EU in or out of the UK, the call for independence to join the EU is tuter hypocracy and a terrible lie by the SNP and dosnt fool true blue patriots. Sure id use the SNP to get out too but once gone ahhh thats a different story altogether, once out should it ever happen I doubt very much they will bow to another master. Damned if I would no matter how worse off id be... all my Scottish mates feel exactly the same,  SNP is simply a means to an end and its not being ruled by the EU.... careful what you wish for unless prepared for real self rule.  Freedom is a price beyond wages. I doubt youve a clue about even the concept not being a patriot and all. 

 

Stay mad lad, we are still out of the EU which means Scotland is half way there to true independence.. your welcome  

 

Nothing your going to do about it either but whine here so carry on... your constant barrage of butthurt posts amuse me.  Just a bonus your a plastic patriot to boot... I LOVE it. 

You must be the most out of touch person on the planet regarding Scotland. 

You invent a group who favour independence and Brexit and try and portrait them as being true Scottish patriots? They are somehow the majority of Scots?

Pure invention. Pure fantasy.

As for being butthurt. Nope. I absolutely love that all you rabid Brexiteers have now given independence a real shot in the arm. Last three polls have all shown a majority in favour of independence. We are leaving. Get used to it.   

[englishoak]

40 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You must be the most out of touch person on the planet regarding Scotland. 

You invent a group who favour independence and Brexit and try and portrait them as being true Scottish patriots? They are somehow the majority of Scots?

Pure invention. Pure fantasy.

As for being butthurt. Nope. I absolutely love that all you rabid Brexiteers have now given independence a real shot in the arm. Last three polls have all shown a majority in favour of independence. We are leaving. Get used to it.   

 

Ive come to the conclusion your incapable of reading and have chronic cognative dissonance as you just keep repeating things, like i dont want Scotland to leave the union when I state over and over I do...or your simply trolling, either way im done with reading your loony tunes posts anymore..you just cant fix stupid, blocked, 

Edited February 15, 2020 by englishoak

[RuamRudy]

11 hours ago, englishoak said:

Heres the problem I see with an enforced minimum wage, it never stays that way, now we are seeing the living wage being pushed and as likely will become the new minimum wage.. then it will be a guaranteed basic income, who knows what next, probably entitled or lawfully enforced company profit shares or something.  I know people are NEVER satisfied and human nature is to want more more MORE.. it is our burden and paradox perhaps

 

The unions are a perfect example of human greed, ive no faith in peoples ability to be fair but not greedy, one mans contentment is another mans resentment... never said capitalism dosnt need a reset from time to time though... I think we missed that chance in 08 when half the world should have crashed and shaken out the corrupt and bad business but they bailed themselves out and will again no doubt... possibly the only reset now likely will be  some black swan event and a total breakdown n our civilization.. I do know capitalism is the best of a bad lot, proven and tried over time, only now the resets have been corrupted so all bets are off.

But by the same token, there is also no limit to the greed of company directors and shareholders; at the extreme end you have companies like Walmart and Amazon making huge sums for a very small number of employees and shareholders, while many of their workers endure miserable conditions. So I would add this to your first paragraph - people, regardless of whether they are the employer or the employed, are never satisfied and want more. 

 

That is why we need, in my opinion, much stronger regulations on employee protection, involvement and engagement in management, etc. Companies have, in the whole, proven themselves to be incapable of self regulating; it is the job of the government to find and implement a balance that meets the needs of both parties.

[bannork]

A hilarious Cabinet meeting where teacher Boris checks his students' answers.

 

[RuamRudy]

41 minutes ago, Jare said:

why should we be forced to rejoin the EU against our will as Shetlanders?

56.5% of Shetlanders voted to remain in the EU. You are in the minority. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results/local/s

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Jare said:

Not exactly, and anyway, Scotland's once in a generation vote was more decisively against, and there's no significant change in that view. Now people begin to realise what a narrow escape it was, and how ineffective the SNP are in power.

I would say you couldn't make it up, but you obviously have done.

[englishoak]

16 minutes ago, bannork said:

The fact is Johnson has insulted and tried to demean people of different classes and ethnic groups for years. 

Childish and juvenile himself, he now has a Cabinet of servile individuals, utterly unprepared for the challenges of Brexit ahead.

 

Im not the sensitive kind so if Boris being un pc is all you have forgive me for not taking that too seriously. 

 

There you go making assumptions, MPS, including the PM take their lead and make decisions based on information from advisers, how do you think a transport minister can shift to defence minister or education ? they dont have the experience nor expertise, the advisers and civil servant in those depts do.Treasury commonly has around 15 - 20  or so advisers, the more senior the minister and important the role the more advisers they have. PM would have around 40 or so before Boris, no idea now under Cummings but expect its cut down quite a bit. Ministers xp dosnt matter much at all or new govs when it changes party hands wouldnt be able to run anything much.. advisers and civil servants do 95% of the work and have the knowledge not MPs. 

 

You clearly dont know how things really work in both cabinate and Whitehall. Forget the papers and headlines, thats all just for the masses and the circus show. The real power and story is behind the scenes and the life long serving civil servants, thats why Cummings is clearing out the EU centric swamp and why Javid resigned when his EU loving ex Hammond advisers were sacked. 

 

Go watch some yes minister and youll get a better idea of the reality, widely loved and rated by politicians and cited as more real than any media scoop. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by englishoak

[bannork]

7 hours ago, englishoak said:

Im not the sensitive kind so if Boris being un pc is all you have forgive me for not taking that too seriously. 

 

There you go making assumptions, MPS, including the PM take their lead and make decisions based on information from advisers, how do you think a transport minister can shift to defence minister or education ? they dont have the experience nor expertise, the advisers and civil servant in those depts do.Treasury commonly has around 15 - 20  or so advisers, the more senior the minister and important the role the more advisers they have. PM would have around 40 or so before Boris, no idea now under Cummings but expect its cut down quite a bit. Ministers xp dosnt matter much at all or new govs when it changes party hands wouldnt be able to run anything much.. advisers and civil servants do 95% of the work and have the knowledge not MPs. 

 

You clearly dont know how things really work in both cabinate and Whitehall. Forget the papers and headlines, thats all just for the masses and the circus show. The real power and story is behind the scenes and the life long serving civil servants, thats why Cummings is clearing out the EU centric swamp and why Javid resigned when his EU loving ex Hammond advisers were sacked. 

 

Go watch some yes minister and youll get a better idea of the reality, widely loved and rated by politicians and cited as more real than any media scoop. 

Of course I remember Yes Minister. It was reasonably funny, and as you say it ponted out some home-truths, but having grown up on Monty Python my standards for comedy were set very high, not even something completely different could compensate.

Yes, the civil servants are vital but the ministers matter too.

They have to direct government policy, make decisions on vital issues, as well as propose laws from their respective departments.

Skilled, intelligent, experienced ministers are remembered for their achievements, at least by those whose lives they affect.

Good to see legal action being taken against Cummings.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sonia-khan-sacked-downing-street-dominic-cummings-unfair-dismissal-a9337311.html

 

[metisdead]

Grammar police posts and replies have been removed.

 

Posts and replies with insulting English banter comments to other members have been removed, way off topic anyway.

[bannork]

Oh no! Disaster! it looks like the benefits from potential trade deals outside the EU will in no way compensate for the loss of access to the single EU market.

To quote Paul Simon- 'As if I didn't know that.....'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deals-us-trump-asia-boris-johnson-eu-a9336331.html

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, bannork said:

Oh no! Disaster! it looks like the benefits from potential trade deals outside the EU will in no way compensate for the loss of access to the single EU market.

To quote Paul Simon- 'As if I didn't know that.....'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deals-us-trump-asia-boris-johnson-eu-a9336331.html

I was excited at the prospect of an independent newspaper and then I saw it was the Independent. Oh Dear

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Independent

 

https://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/the-top-ten-independent-news-sources-in-the-uk/

The independent isn't here and might as well be called the Fake News Dependent.

[bristolboy]

55 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I was excited at the prospect of an independent newspaper and then I saw it was the Independent. Oh Dear

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Independent

 

https://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/the-top-ten-independent-news-sources-in-the-uk/

The independent isn't here and might as well be called the Fake News Dependent.

In that article there's a quote from the government in response to the Independent's request to release the information. Ya really think the Independent is going to make up a quote that can so easily be debunked?

“Premature release of this analysis would be detrimental to the progress of future trade discussions once the UK has left the EU,” the department said.

Professor Winters, of the UK Trade Policy Observatory at the University of Sussex, said: “If the government thought it had a very strong case that these deals would be big and strong then they would publish these studies."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deals-us-trump-asia-boris-johnson-eu-a9336331.html

[bannork]

When the Brexiteers have no answer to bad news, they always shoot the messenger:'It's The Grauniad, it's The Independent, it can't be true!'

 

[Sujo]

I think the uk.has 2 feet and its better if they are better not in their mouth. They are trying to bargain from a very weak position.

 

Not to mention they are trying to get more trade with oz and at the same time oz is angry they are using huawaii for 5g.

 

Death by a thousand cuts. But do keep on with the optimism.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

When the Brexiteers have no answer to bad news, they always shoot the messenger:'It's The Grauniad, it's The Independent, it can't be true!'

 

What news? There is nothing there. Just more PF.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

When the Brexiteers have no answer to bad news, they always shoot the messenger:'It's The Grauniad, it's The Independent, it can't be true!'

 

The story is about as credible as Tony Blair's and the WMD in Iraq.

[samran]

2 hours ago, bannork said:

When the Brexiteers have no answer to bad news, they always shoot the messenger:'It's The Grauniad, it's The Independent, it can't be true!'

 

Chuck in ‘you‘re anti british’ if you don’t happen to be british, or the tried and true ‘traitor’ if you are...

[bannork]

More bad news.....

https://www.businessleader.co.uk/one-in-seven-firms-to-quit-uk-in-wake-of-brexit/79400/

[JASON THAI]

My Chicken Burger& Chips are still the same price for the time being so it's all good LOL 

[Loiner]

9 hours ago, bannork said:

When the Brexiteers have no answer to bad news, they always shoot the messenger:'It's The Grauniad, it's The Independent, it can't be true!'

 

Not so much bad news, as Fake News. Didn't anybody tell The Garuniad and Independent that their Project Fear propaganda didn't work? Or do they continue publishing it for Remainer consumption only? Suppose it keeps their readership figures up if nothing else.

[david555]

(So ….why even do the effort to come to Brussels....?

I can't even not do the effort anymore to copy paste 3 paragraph's allowed after reading this....????)

 

Daniel Boffey in Brussels

Mon 17 Feb 2020 19.35 GMT

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/17/britain-wont-follow-eu-trade-rules-after-brexit-says-uks-chief-negotiator

Edited February 18, 2020 by david555