Britain's row with Greece over treasures spills into Brexit tensions

[jany123]

7 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

What's it gotta do with rich lawyer Clooney?

 

Wonder how many mansions they now own and what their carbon footprints are like?

 

Great example of left wing liberals who want to rule with their do as we say not as we do mantras.

LOL... damn lefty liberals at it again.... bustards!

 

meanwhile, she made comment because she is a preeminent international lawyer and had been retained by Greece in this matter

 

it was her job... she was paid to do it

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Is there a receipt to prove the transaction? This is from Wikipedia, which suggests not:

 

"From 1801 to 1812, agents of Thomas Bruce, 7th Earl of Elgin removed about half of the surviving sculptures of the Parthenon, as well as sculptures from the Propylaea and Erechtheum. The Marbles were transported by sea to Britain. Elgin later claimed to have obtained in 1801 an official decree (a firman) from the Sublime Porte, the central government of the Ottoman Empire which were then the rulers of Greece. This firman has not been found in the Ottoman archives despite its wealth of documents from the same period and its veracity is disputed.

...

"Elgin intended to use the marbles to decorate Broomhall House, his private home near Dunfermline in Scotland, but a costly divorce suit forced him to sell them to settle his debts."

 

So it looks like it wasn't even, originally, bought by the British government, but 'acquired' by a dodgy Scotsman, who later sold them on. 

A dodgy Scotsman, surely not.

 

Of course non of us was there but it has been said that the marbles were given to Lord Elgin by the by the Sultan of the Ottoman empire, but of course that has conflicting views also, but what ever the reason is it was a time when the Parthenon was being pillaged and it was being used to store gunpowder. Also a Venetian admiral tried to remove them to take them back to Venice but his pulley broke on his crane and the figure of Poseidon was smashed to pieces. So there is a good chance that Lord Elgins actions may have contributed to the saviour of this pile of rubble.????

Personly I don't give two hoots one way or another what happens to them, it just seems hypocritical with all the hidden treasure that has been stolen and is hidden all over Europe that the anti Brit brigade has now found another stick to bash us over the head with.

 

Here is the link I was referring to, I'm sure you'll find it interesting. And by reading some posts on here I think that it is not just the Parthenon that has lost its marbles.

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/magazine/2017/03-04/parthenon-sculptures-british-museum-controversy/

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Exactly how ere they purchased? How much was paid? is there a bill of sale? 

"The Marbles were transported by sea to Britain. Elgin later claimed to have obtained in 1801 an official decree (a firman)[5] from the Sublime Porte, the central government of the Ottoman Empire which were then the rulers of Greece. This firman has not been found in the Ottoman archives despite its wealth of documents from the same period[6] and its veracity is disputed"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles

           Greece thanks Britain very very much for the safekeeping of their property , now please give it back , because if you don't, it is not safe keeping it is theft. 

We didn't get them off Greece. You may do well to read all the posts on this topic and it might give you a better understanding. If I may highlight bristol boy posts you won't go far wrong.

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

We didn't get them off Greece. You may do well to read all the posts on this topic and it might give you a better understanding. If I may highlight bristol boy posts you won't go far wrong.

I am sorry. Where did you get them from?

[vogie]

Just now, sirineou said:

I am sorry. Where did you get them from?

Argos!

[sirineou]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

Argos!

Then return it to Argos. 

[puipuitom]

Is going to be interested when all occupied territories the British once ruled as dictators, will ask their cultural heritage back, e.g. India their koh-i-noor diamant, see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/on-display-here-wanted-by-india-1988002.html . No return = no trade deal. The British museums will be empty soon.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2019/jun/21/british-museum-head-in-sand-return-artefacts-colonial  

https://www.history.com/news/british-museum-stolen-artifacts-nigeria

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/22/returning-museum-objects-former-colonies-risks-denying-britains/

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/united-kingdom/articles/the-15-most-contentious-items-held-in-museums/

Edited February 19, 2020 by puipuitom

[evadgib]

43 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Is going to be interested when all occupied territories the British once ruled as dictators, will ask their cultural heritage back, e.g. India their koh-i-noor diamant,

Claimed by three states despite UK's insistance that it's theirs under the last treaty of Lahore?

[RubbaJohnny]

They've just lost their marbles, don't make a drachma out of a crisis.

 

Greeks invented philosophy , democracy for non slaves and of course ouzo.

Men in skirts less said the spannerkppta

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Claimed by three states despite UK's insistance that it's theirs under the last treaty of Lahore?

According the treaty of Sevres, the Bosporus + Smyrna ( Izmir) would be parts of Greece. So, what is the value of a treaty, especially based on the power of arms of that time ?

Edited February 19, 2020 by puipuitom

[androokery]

16 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Wonder if the EU will put in a demand for all its citizens and migrants back ? Nah, doubt it.

I'm sure they will if the citizens and migrants were stolen or otherwise illegally obtained (as defined by the EU).

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, rhyddid said:

Sound strange, no of course, those are the Brexiters way of thinking.

 

Limp and inappropriate jibe.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, RubbaJohnny said:

They've just lost their marbles, don't make a drachma out of a crisis.

 

Greeks invented philosophy , democracy for non slaves and of course ouzo.

Men in skirts less said the spannerkppta

"democracy for non slaves". ????

[SheungWan]

12 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

As if lots of Brits give a hoot about the Elgin Marbles?!

Some things assume importance over and above their immediate significance when assumed principles of interest are fought over. Returning the Marbles would not be a one-off and all know that or at least should do.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, rhyddid said:

Sound strange, no of course, those are the Brexiters way of thinking.

So now we have someone painting the British Museum as representing Brexiteer policy? For the BM this is undeserved and for the Brexiteers unearned.

[gk10002000]

Hmmmm.  This brings up some interesting issues.  There must be many arrangements or treaties, or protocols, etc.  some official, some not so official and formal that deal with all sorts of things that could come into play as Brexit separates the country from many EU things. 

[Andrew65]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Some things assume importance over and above their immediate significance when assumed principles of interest are fought over. Returning the Marbles would not be a one-off and all know that or at least should do.

Boris is into all this ancient stuff, adds an angle to it.

I see lots of antiquities have been returned to Cambodian, also a lot taken from Iraq & Syria. I was in Syria before this war, they'd done a great job of preserving a lot of that stuff.

[bristolboy]

21 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Quite right. Good faith is not countries trying to use this as leverage to settle some unrelated score.

 

Bankrupt idle Greece, still hovering about whether to leave the Euro and default on it's debts, doesn't care about any trade deals. Not exactly a EU powerhouse exporting massive amounts. Now Germany might not be so pleased with this Greek idea. Especially as they did their share of looting. 

 

Greece still pretends they're an independent country that can do as they wish. Germany knows better.

Making things up much? Greece is most decidedlly not "hovering about whether to leave the Euro and default on its debts." For better or worse that issue was definitively decided years ago.

[bristolboy]

21 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

What's it gotta do with rich lawyer Clooney?

 

Wonder how many mansions they now own and what their carbon footprints are like?

 

Great example of left wing liberals who want to rule with their do as we say not as we do mantras.

Carbon footprints? Really? Obsessed much?

[samran]

The usual suspects absolutely perplexed that the continentals are using smart alec tactics.
 

You are either inside the tent out outside of it. And if when you were inside the tent you were pouring buckets of sh!t all over your fellow members then stuff like this shouldn’t be a surprising. 
 

The brave new world is here! 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, samran said:

The usual suspects absolutely perplexed that the continentals are using smart alec tactics.
 

You are either inside the tent out outside of it. And if when you were inside the tent you were pouring buckets of sh!t all over your fellow members then stuff like this shouldn’t be a surprising. 
 

The brave new world is here! 

The usual suspects are urinating on UK in multiple threads on a daily basis while having no irons in the fire & perhaps never even having set foot there ????

[samran]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

The usual suspects are urinating on UK in multiple threads on a daily basis while having no irons in the fire & perhaps never even having set foot there ????

Never set foot there? I used to have residency there, voted there and will get a full British pension when I retire.  
 

But whatever, I don’t deal in fairy stories. 

[overherebc]

10 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Hmmmm.  This brings up some interesting issues.  There must be many arrangements or treaties, or protocols, etc.  some official, some not so official and formal that deal with all sorts of things that could come into play as Brexit separates the country from many EU things. 

 

10 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Hmmmm.  This brings up some interesting issues.  There must be many arrangements or treaties, or protocols, etc.  some official, some not so official and formal that deal with all sorts of things that could come into play as Brexit separates the country from many EU things. 

As long as they don't separate me from my favourite German wurst.

Edited February 20, 2020 by overherebc

[evadgib]

57 minutes ago, samran said:

Never set foot there? I used to have residency there, voted there and will get a full British pension when I retire.  
 

But whatever, I don’t deal in fairy stories. 

Oh the irony (HMG/DWP feeding the hand that bites lol)

Edited February 20, 2020 by evadgib

[Bluespunk]

29 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Oh the irony (HMG/DWP feeding the hand that bites lol)

And what do you mean by that?

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

And what do you mean by that?

It was self explanatory, as was your bait.

Edited February 20, 2020 by evadgib

[Bluespunk]

10 minutes ago, evadgib said:

It was self explanatory.

No it wasn’t or I wouldn’t have asked, so do enlighten me. 

[samran]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Oh the irony (HMG/DWP feeding the hand that bites lol)

Paying towards my own pension is considered that now is it?

 

No wonder post after post here by you blokes is full of upside down economics!

[samran]

16 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No it wasn’t or I wouldn’t have asked, so do enlighten me. 

Cause he can’t. They are only good at slogans! 

[evadgib]

4 minutes ago, samran said:

Paying towards my own pension is considered that now is it?

 

No wonder post after post here by you blokes is full of upside down economics!

The humour would not have escaped you if served in the other direction. Somehow I guess the consortium isn't something you'll bother with either ????