Chiang Mai splutters: But "Curtain of Water" protects tourists as polluted city continues among world's worst

[emptypockets]

4 hours ago, Fore Man said:

I’ve been here 16 years and don’t recall complaining or worrying over poor air quality until around 2016.  Then we experienced total AQI readings that never seemed to rise higher than 150 in Mae Rim and only for March and April. The rest of the year was generally filled with decent air, at least not bad enough to fret over.  In early March 2019 I started experiencing what most would call a ‘frog in my throat’...a raspiness and always coughing up small amounts of phlegm, accompanied by a continual post nasal drip.  Saw a cardiopulmonary specialist and he did a CT scan of my lungs, finding a slightly thickened bronchial wall and some other minor anomalies.  Six months later this scan was repeated and although the bronchial thickening was still visible, it hadn’t worsened and the earlier anomalies were no longer visible. But yet here it is 11 months later and I still have this constant hacking cough that I cannot shake. I’m assuming it’s a reaction to the terrible smog and haze caused by the onslaught of agriculture burning coupled with Chiang Mai’s steadily expanding size and poorly managed growth.  
 

The real root of the problem is that the typical Thai hasn’t received a proper education in the sciences to know any better of the dangers being wrought by a self-absorbed and seemingly uncaring government.  This is understandable and regrettable with lower working class Thais, but profoundly disappointing in those who ought to know better with professional degrees who should realize that the health of everyone is at significant risk. The knee-jerk, head-in-the-sand response by Thai government officials is utterly appalling, when one sees stupid reactions such as operating large water cannons to combat pollution, instead of invoking strong preventive measures including deploying the Army and police into the area to incarcerate anyone caught burning.  Until the authorities put some real teeth into the battle for clean air, the Northern region and its populace are doomed in exactly the same manner as a death row prisoner: with no hope and no way out.  Thailand’s frightening shortsightedness will be the bane of everyone living in this once- charming area. 

You haven't considered moving to another area? I would if I was affected to that extent.

[nowhereman]

This is History data for Chiang Mai Air quality in the past 4 years. As you can see October, November, December 2019 were the worst in the recent history and it doesn't look good in January and February. So the prospects are bad. If you live in the north and care for your health move out or at list get some N95 face masks, air purifiers as the air is usually at its worst at night time when people sleep. The situation is unlikely to improve. But for those who are not worried about health, carry on as usual.

[tlandtday]

9 hours ago, nikmar said:

I dont think a few fountains are gonna work. What they really need is a few buses with air filters on the roof!!

No bring back the drones dropping molasses. 

[phetphet]

9 hours ago, nikmar said:

I dont think a few fountains are gonna work. What they really need is a few buses with air filters on the roof!!

Nah. Ask all the residents to point their fans out the windows and blow it all away. 

[rumak]

9 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Apps and fountains, is that the best they can come up with,

it's not like a natural disaster that you have no idea is going

to occur,this happens every year at this time.

 

Doing next to nothing in the City is not going to help one jot,

the Soldiers,Police, any volunteers need to get up in the  hills

and forests and PREVENT fires starting,let the villagers up there know

that setting fires is to be no longer tolerated,anyone caught setting

fires is an ARSONIST and should  be given a prison sentence,as they effect

the health and jobs of many  others. once again it's too little, too late. !

regards Worgeordie

i said the same thing today.    in fact i said it yesterday and many other days as well.  Amazing how quickly you will be told that you can not smoke in a restaurant or many other areas.

But burning down the whole countryside.......  mai pen rai

[Ireland32]

10 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Apps and fountains, is that the best they can come up with,

it's not like a natural disaster that you have no idea is going

to occur,this happens every year at this time.

 

Doing next to nothing in the City is not going to help one jot,

the Soldiers,Police, any volunteers need to get up in the  hills

and forests and PREVENT fires starting,let the villagers up there know

that setting fires is to be no longer tolerated,anyone caught setting

fires is an ARSONIST and should  be given a prison sentence,as they effect

the health and jobs of many  others. once again it's too little, too late. !

regards Worgeordie

Start charging 2,000 b for lighters , Farang can bring there own 

[geriatrickid]

10 hours ago, canthai55 said:

And what - pray tell - is your solution for the air pollution which comes into Thailand from other countries ?

Invasion ? A stern "Don't do that ! "

Most air pollution is invasive from neighboring countries.

There is no simple answer ...

No. Thailand is one of the main offenders in the region. And sorry to say a major contributor. It has no moral authority to complain when it is just as bad.

[DaRoadrunner]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yep, it's pretty bad at the moment.

Sitting at home (12Km from the centre) trying not to cough.

The Govt will spray the air with molasses from crop spraying planes to clear the pollution. Leave now before you come to a sticky end.

[mickey rat]

9 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

The tourism crisis does not relate to the air pollution, it might relate to retirees and expats or locals but that would be it. 
The high exchange rate and negative events in Thailand do ruin tourism, as well over priced shops and services.

 

No actually Thailand is still dirt cheap to most of us in comparison to the west.

 

Though I fully realize that most of the locals totally ignorant of the situation,  the Air pollution was the only reason why we decided to give Chiang Mai a miss this year. At least in the south you can leave the room without the need for wearing a mask to protect against the horrendous air pollution now blanketing central, northern and northeastern Thailand! ????

 

 

 

 

[rabang]

51 minutes ago, mickey rat said:

 

No actually Thailand is still dirt cheap to most of us in comparison to the west.

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder how people can still feel that way. Granted there are a few things that still are, such as local services and transport. Rents and hotel accomodation as well to some extent. On the other hand supermarkets are lower quality and more expensive. Anything imported is way more expensive. Like anything, it depends, especially depending on the point of comparison.

 

I have to say though that one advantage that maybe keeps me coming to Thailand so often is the availability and convenience of renting a place to stay, other than a hotel.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, rabang said:

I wonder how people can still feel that way. Granted there are a few things that still are, such as local services and transport. Rents and hotel accomodation as well to some extent. On the other hand supermarkets are lower quality and more expensive. Anything imported is way more expensive. Like anything, it depends, especially depending on the point of comparison.

From my point of comparison I have been living here for well over 20 years and do so for about 60% less than if I lived in States or Canada.   I buy good food and live on 6 rai of land in a small air conditioned house.  All goods and services are much cheaper for me here.

Of course,  i could trade it all in for a lovely house in Sweet Grass, Montana : ONLY  195,000 dollars !  With that and cost of health care I could kiss my Sweet Grass good bye

[30la]

20 hours ago, webfact said:

 

These were creating a "curtain" of water vapor to alleviate the problem, they said.

But who ever told you that with water you can eliminate or alleviate the problem?
This serious problem must be fought at the source!

[Lacessit]

Stand by for an epidemic of Legionella pneumophila among tourists frequenting places around the moat. AFAIK the water in the moat is not chlorinated. Frying pans and fires spring to mind.

I'm moving at the end of the month, had enough of sore eyes.

[Nyezhov]

3 hours ago, rumak said:

From my point of comparison I have been living here for well over 20 years and do so for about 60% less than if I lived in States or Canada.   I buy good food and live on 6 rai of land in a small air conditioned house.  All goods and services are much cheaper for me here.

Of course,  i could trade it all in for a lovely house in Sweet Grass, Montana : ONLY  195,000 dollars !  With that and cost of health care I could kiss my Sweet Grass good bye

My figures are about 30% less in Bangkok than in the USA, Cambodia Im about 50% less. Thats using a lot of comparables and assumptions of course since it doesnt really matter and I cant compare apples to oranges.

 

Montana is wonderful but too cold. This summer Ill be looking around the Western Carolinas/W. Virginia/Kentucky for my final living place for when I get too old for Asia.

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Stand by for an epidemic of Legionella pneumophila among tourists frequenting places around the moat. AFAIK the water in the moat is not chlorinated. Frying pans and fires spring to mind.

I'm moving at the end of the month, had enough of sore eyes.

where ya going Big Dawg? Coming to hang out in the Kingdom of Wonder with me?

Edited February 20, 2020 by Nyezhov

[Dellboy218]

21 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

They just need for the entire population of Chiang Mai to spend their day, downwind and close to the fountains

You really want to breathe in that water? 

[rumak]

44 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

y figures are about 30% less in Bangkok than in the USA, Cambodia Im about 50% less. Thats using a lot of comparables and assumptions of course since it doesnt really matter and I cant compare apples to oranges.

 

Montana is wonderful but too cold. This summer Ill be looking around the Western Carolinas/W. Virginia/Kentucky for my final living place for when I get too old for Asia.

I have no rent ,  property tax of 200 baht a year (waived for the next 3 years) , water and electric come to about 1500 baht month.   Avocados 60 baht kilo,  tomatoes homegrown or 25 baht kilo, organic eggs and no hormone pork. chicken very reasonable at Rimping.

almost no house maintenance and i can do most.....     I have cable tv and good internet for 2000 baht month. (true visions sucks but still some entertainment/sports .

A very few health issues over the many years that hardly add up to one year of health insurance (which i do not have as they are all criminals).    

I do like the areas in the states you mention......  and places outside of Austin, tx  are pretty nice too if you like warmer and drier.    BUT,  unless you are an army vet....  medicare will bleed you dry if you have health issues.  Sheryl can back me up on how much copays and deductibles there are that will bankrupt many without large savings.

I used to move freely, and often.   But reaching 70 the decision gets a little more difficult. 

I could go to Canada,  but   brrrrrrrrrr

why would i move from here?    yep, maybe the pollution 

Edited February 20, 2020 by rumak

[Krataiboy]

Never mind Chiang Mai. What about the appalling air quality seaside resorts along the eastern seaboard where tourists and locals flock for a breath of fresh air?

 

According to Airvisual, Hua Hin currently has an AQI of 155, just eight less than the Chiang Mai figure, with a PM 2.5 reading of 62.5 - more than twice the World Health Organisation recommended safe limit.

 

Neighbouring Cha Am, a few miles North of the Royal resort, is faring even worse. The AQI is 162 - seven higher than Chian Mai with an unhealthy PM 2.5 count of 95.3 - nearly four times the WHO limit.

 

Goodness knows where that puts us on the global filthy air chart - but certainly way ahead of of our Northern cousins.

 

Nobody is bothering to explain to the countless thousands of us across the Kingdom, warned to stay indoors with windows and doors shut and air purifiers going full blast, either the source of our discomfort - let alone why nothing effective is being done to tackle the problem.

 

It's not as if there is no incentive to sort out this shambles.

 

World Bank research reveals that Thai premature deaths from airborne particulates rose by 20,000 over two decades, thanks to indequate regulation and the failure to enforce such anti-pollution measures as actually exist. Yet little is actually being done to curb the ongoing carnage.

 

Don't the good burghers of suffering towns like ours, or their masters in Government House, care if their and our children have their lives shortened by preventable pollution-related lung diseases, heart problems and cancer?

 

It seems not. Shame on the lot of them.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Krataiboy

[Trujillo]

Let's be blunt; Thai officials could end this pollution from burning easily and quickly if it was in their economic interests to do so.

 

It's not like you can burn in secret. There is aerial surveillance via satellites and drones, not to mention those on the ground who could turn offenders in if the reward for doing so was large enough teamed with paralyzingly heavy fines for illegal burning. 

 

That's it. That's all there is too it. 

So you want to know why this has ticked up in recent years? Follow the money. 

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

Lived in Hanoi for a couple years. Worst air pollution I've seen in 12 years of living overseas. You literally never saw the sun for weeks -- sometimes months -- at a stretch. And it will get worse.

 

While Chiang Mai's air quality is not as bad as Hanoi's, it still sux. This past Xmas did a week-long hike around the province and, aside from 2 blue sky days, the air was appalling.

 

We shall not be returning to Chiang Mai next Xmas unless the AQ improves significantly.

[ChaiyaTH]

On 2/20/2020 at 12:31 PM, Krataiboy said:

Don't the good burghers of suffering towns like ours, or their masters in Government House, care if their and our children have their lives shortened by preventable pollution-related lung diseases, heart problems and cancer?

Perhaps they actually like it, population is already in decline, this helps some more. Then the minority elite can enjoy Thailand even more.

[Fore Man]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Perhaps they actually like it, population is already in decline, this helps some more. Then the minority elite can enjoy Thailand even more.

I’ve always thought that the Bangkokian elites considered their upcountry, rural brethren to be beneath their lofty stature and that the poor only complicate matters for the wealthy, privileged class by continuing to vote for populist, spoiler candidates to unseat the fat sows gorging at the public trough. About ten years back I remember someone high up was recorded as uttering that an upper class, ahem, “Yellow Shirt” vote should count for every 10 polled by the agrarian masses.  I thought this was a bad joke of some kind but after living here 16 years I can see the subtle truth in that preposterous statement. Put into the perspective of today’s major issues confronting Thailand, it may be understandable why the elitist government refuses to crack down on so many vital matters to the lower economic classes...eliminating corruption at all levels, cleaning up the air instead of continuing to trot out ridiculous PR stunts (water cannons and the like), providing free education, uniforms and books to all students through high school, access to better and more meaningful national healthcare, baring the utter truth concerning coronavirus...  The list goes on.  

[rumak]

On 2/19/2020 at 11:34 AM, Lungstib said:

I chose Chiang Mai as a place to live 32 years ago when it was little more than a big country village with no major highways and little traffic. Todays city is almost unrecognisable in size and content. The transformation has taken place in an unplanned and unregulated rush of a type unknown to most western countries. Massive amounts of construction, the movement of sand, soil and cement in uncontrolled ways, the introduction of highways always under 'improvement' meaning the cars are disturbing dust at all times, and all in a valley surrounded by hills. You cant add a million cars, thousands of houses, hundreds of condo's and shopping venues in 30 years without making a mess, which is of course exactly what we have.

Almost exactly my scenario.   I used to walk or ride my bike around with ease.  

I have since moved south around 70 km and enjoy the simple country life.  Driving in to CM

is never fun but I do like the food choices at Rimping ( hormone free eggs, pork, good yoghurt,some veggies).     Only problem is that the pollution now covers most of Northern Thailand.    

A little late in life for me to move yet again..........  but I am looking into it.  

 

 

 

[Trujillo]

Picking one thing to grouse about from 32 YEARS AGO is disingenuous. Almost nothing is the same from back then. 

[Fore Man]

53 minutes ago, rumak said:

Almost exactly my scenario.   I used to walk or ride my bike around with ease.  

I have since moved south around 70 km and enjoy the simple country life.  Driving in to CM

is never fun but I do like the food choices at Rimping ( hormone free eggs, pork, good yoghurt,some veggies).     Only problem is that the pollution now covers most of Northern Thailand.    

A little late in life for me to move yet again..........  but I am looking into it.  

 

 

 

Do it!  This situation here will not improve or even remain static. Yes, a great deal of the poor air quality in Chiang Mai is caused by humans, both actively adding to the problem but also by the failure of those who could mandate changes but who steadfastly won’t. Even if a miracle happened and a miraculous Lochinvarian knight rode in out of the west to save Chiang Mai, the city’s location in a huge natural dust bowl would mitigate against it. We are on the cusp of leaving, spousal visa to immigrate to my homeland approved, following several like minded friends, and although we loved our first dozen years in the region, we will never look back and always forward. This is no place to stay if it is at all possible for you to leave. Even Thai medical doctors we knew have transferred to cleaner cities.  Get out as fast as you can. There is no upside to remaining in this increasingly toxic wasteland. 

[Forza2002]

Good to know that the Govt/Police are in full control of the burning, NOT.... Police to busy collecting all their tea money at various check points around the city, easy money...

[rumak]

4 hours ago, Fore Man said:

Do it!  This situation here will not improve or even remain static. Yes, a great deal of the poor air quality in Chiang Mai is caused by humans, both actively adding to the problem but also by the failure of those who could mandate changes but who steadfastly won’t. Even if a miracle happened and a miraculous Lochinvarian knight rode in out of the west to save Chiang Mai, the city’s location in a huge natural dust bowl would mitigate against it. We are on the cusp of leaving, spousal visa to immigrate to my homeland approved, following several like minded friends, and although we loved our first dozen years in the region, we will never look back and always forward. This is no place to stay if it is at all possible for you to leave. Even Thai medical doctors we knew have transferred to cleaner cities.  Get out as fast as you can. There is no upside to remaining in this increasingly toxic wasteland. 

Hmm,  guess you wouldn't be interested in a house or some land for sale in CM then  55555

BTW:   most of the time the air is a bit better here than in the city.  But still not great.  I agree, no way to live for 4 months of the year.   But, awful nice place when the air is good . 

Anyway,  i agree with you and working on the solution .

 

[connda]

On 2/19/2020 at 10:43 AM, webfact said:

To combat the pollution and make matters better for tourists and residents the media said that fountains were in operation on all four sides of the moat in the inner city area.

No they are not.  Not unless they are pumping polluted air.

 

[Forza2002]

Bl@@dy joke being confined to quarters due to the <deleted> air. 

[Fore Man]

I'd advise you to switch to the AirVisual app...its a lot more accurate.

 

It doesn't show me a listing for the SK Hospital, but it does show San Khampaeng as reading 161 at the current time (1500 on Friday).