Immigration Has Changed Their Regulation For A Change Of Address Report

[ubonjoe]

Note that if mentions 90 day reports but no change was done.

The big change is for reporting changes of address under section 37 of the Immigration Act. 

 

 

The change to 2.1 is that it only mentions reporting to immigration with no mention of doing it to the police.

For 2.2 and 2.3 it expands and clarifies who does not need to do them. For all intents and purposes it means very few people will have to do that reporting.

 

 

The order also apparently eliminates the use of the TM28 form for the reporting. The regulation includes a new TM27 form titled.

 

The new regulation is dated February 14 but went into effect on January 28.

Announcment here on immigration website. https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

Download of regulation. Immigration regulation for section 37 reporting.pdf

Download new form. TM27 Change of address form.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Except, if I'm following your post right, the long list of exceptions you listed above do NOT apply to reporting to Immigration under section 2.1....  So that type of reporting still applies to everyone?

 

 

I'm not sure what kind of situation section 2.1 is supposed to apply to, based on the way they've worded it -- a permanent relocation or temporary travel away from home?

 

But either way, Section 2.1 seems solely related to Immigration reporting, whereas the exceptions for 2.2 and 2.3 seem to only apply to reporting to actual police (as opposed to Immigration).

 

Is there supposed to be some meaningful improvement of the situation here for expats that I'm not catching?

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ubonjoe]

Just now, thegreatbw said:

It's not stated explicitly, but I'm assuming that this is amending the TM30 reporting requirement?  For example, I am in Thailand on a Non-Immigrant O visa, marriage extension.  If I travel to Chiang Mai for the weekend, I will not need to submit a TM30 form, is that correct?

TM30 reporting is under section 38 of the immigration act so there is no change to that other than perhaps some immigration offices mixing up the 2 reports.

[offset]

10 minutes ago, thegreatbw said:

It's not stated explicitly, but I'm assuming that this is amending the TM30 reporting requirement?  For example, I am in Thailand on a Non-Immigrant O visa, marriage extension.  If I travel to Chiang Mai for the weekend, I will not need to submit a TM30 form, is that correct?

TM 28 is used for Alien reporting address the TM 30 is for house owner to report alien staying at the address, so I am just guessing if I travel for short visit I not need to do anything but the owner where I travel still have to do a TM 30 report

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Except, if I'm following your post right, the long list of exceptions you listed above do NOT apply to reporting to Immigration under section 2.1....  So that type of reporting still applies to everyone?

Yes it is for everybody.

 

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'm not sure what kind of situation section 2.1 is supposed to apply to...based on the way they've worded it?  Except, 2.1 seems solely related to Immigration reporting, whereas the exceptions for 2.2 and 2.3 seem to only apply to reporting to actual police (as opposed to Immigration).

Clause 2.1 is only to report a change to a previously reported address to immigration. It could be the address put on TM6 or a previous address report to them. Before the reporting for it was the police or immigration.

It seems that the intent is to eliminate the reporting under 2.2 and 2.3. Not sure who would have to do it now.

The old TM28 report that is not mentioned included that reporting and the police.

[Psimbo]

What does this all mean in plain english?

 

It seems that if I am away from my place for 24 hrs or more even within Thailand I still have to report on return, or the landlord can do it on line.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes it is for everybody.

 

Clause 2.1 is only to report a change to a previously reported address to immigration. It could be the address put on TM6 or a previous address report to them. Before the reporting for it was the police or immigration.

It seems that the intent is to eliminate the reporting under 2.2 and 2.3. Not sure who would have to do it now.

 

When I read the new TM27 form you linked above, it seems to pertain to actual relocation of address -- not temporary travel for tourism, etc...  So it's just replacing the prior TM28 relocation form, and taking the direct police reporting route out of the process, and substituting the new TM27 form only to Immigration.

 

But as you've said (as quoted below), none of that seems to pertain to the TM30 reporting requirements, and whether and how Immigration is or isn't enforcing those.

 

Quote

TM30 reporting is under section 38 of the immigration act so there is no change to that other than perhaps some immigration offices mixing up the 2 reports.

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

It seems that if I am away from my place for 24 hrs or more even within Thailand I still have to report on return, or the landlord can do it on line.

You do not have to report being away from your place of residence for more than 24 hours anymore. It only needs to done  if you change it permanently.

It has nothing to do with the TM30 reporting by your landlord  that is under a different section of the immigration act.

[dayo202]

clear as mud.... I don't understand a word of that.

Maybe someone can explant  the new rules, as if I'm a 3 year old please 

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

When I read the new TM27 form you linked above, it seems to pertain to actual relocation of address -- not temporary travel for tourism, etc...  So it's just replacing the prior TM28 relocation form, and taking the direct police reporting route out of the process, and substituting the new TM27 form only to Immigration.

It is only needed for a permanent change of residence. Just traveling within the country does not require it.

 

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But as you've said (as quoted below), none of that seems to pertain to the TM30 reporting requirements, and whether and how Immigration is or isn't enforcing those.

Address reporting is under section 37 of the immigration act and is mentioned in the regulation.

The 30 reporting is under section 38.

This change might be a precursor to informing offices that are wanting a new TM30 form after trips within the country it is not required.

I think many offices have been mixing up the section 37 and section 38 requirements.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

 

I think many offices have been mixing up the section 37 and section 38 requirements.

 

I guess it would be too much to hope that Thai Immigration would ever promulgate a clear, plainly worded regulation on any topic that could be easily and consistently interpreted and understood by Immigration and expats alike

Edited February 20, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I guess it would be too much to hope that Thai Immigration would ever promulgate a clear, plainly worded regulation on any topic that could be easily and consistently interpreted and understood by Immigration and expats alike

They had some room to change the section 37 requirements to the point to where 2.2 and 2.3 could be almost eliminated. 

This from section 37. "The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General". Those are 2.2 and 2.3 in the regulation.

Section 34 has 14 reasons for a permission to stay that are the same as to 6.1 to 6.14 in the regulation. And it has this in it. "15. Other activities as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations."  So under 15 they were able to add 6.15 to 6.22 to it which already existed in the police orders for extension of stay.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They had some room to change the section 37 requirements to the point to where 2.2 and 2.3 could be almost eliminated. 

This from section 37. "The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General". Those are 2.2 and 2.3 in the regulation.

Section 34 has 14 reasons for a permission to stay that are the same as to 6.1 to 6.14 in the regulation. And it has this in it. "15. Other activities as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations."  So under 15 they were able to add 6.15 to 6.22 to it which already existed in the police orders for extension of stay.

 

I think you're been reading Immigration gibberish for too long, Joe... Their style of writing is beginning to rub off on you.... 

[jackdd]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The change to 2.1 is that it only mentions reporting to immigration with no mention of doing it to the police.

This section is 37.2 in the old version of the law, this report was always directed at immigration police, never at regular police, no change here.

Source (page 5): http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

 

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The order also apparently eliminates the use of the TM28 form for the reporting. The regulation includes a new TM27 form titled.

This is wrong.

To do a report under 37.2 people used the TM27 form, directed at immigration police

To do a report under 37.3 and 4 people used the TM28 form, directed at regular police

No change here, has been like this since at least 1979, the TM27 form exists at least since then. Some immigration offices just didn't understand the law, let's see if they will understand it now.

Source: http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

 

So to sum it up:

Most of what was written in OP is wrong, the only change is that retirees, spouses of Thais and some others are now officially exempt from TM28 (for example tourists, non-b holders and many others have always been exempt).

You should correct your first post, because many people here blindly believe what you say and this might cause confusion.

Edited February 20, 2020 by jackdd

[ChouDoufu]

so does this cover it in simple english?

 

 

arrive in thailand - fill out a TM-6, file a TM-30 (online/mail/in person)

 

stay in thailand 90 days - file a 90-day report (online/mail/in person)

 

change permanent address - file a TM-27 with immigration, no need to report anything to local police.  (mail/in person)  [TM-28 goes away]

 

travel around thailand, return to home - no reporting required.

 

stay in hotel - hotel files TM-30 online

 

stay with friend - friend should maybe file TM-30, but probably won't.

[jackdd]

15 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

change permanent address - file a TM-27 with immigration, no need to report anything to local police.  (mail/in person)  [TM-28 goes away]

As a temporary visitor you don't have a "permanent address", you only have a place where you stay.

The law says "if you can not stay at the place as indicated on your arrival card you have to submit a TM27". In the original Thai they also say "can", if you just don't want it obviously doesn't apply.

So if you write the address of your wife's house on the arrival card, but when you arrive there and see that it burned down, then you obviously can not stay there and have to submit a TM27 when you stay at another place.

If you arrive at your house, and see that your mother in law moved in and thus you don't want to stay there (but theoretically could), then you don't have to submit a TM27 when staying somewhere else.

Totally clear, right? This is probably the reason everybody ignored this section for the last 40+ years. In the future it will probably be ignored as well.

Edited February 20, 2020 by jackdd

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

so does this cover it in simple english?

 

 

arrive in thailand - fill out a TM-6, file a TM-30 (online/mail/in person)

 

stay in thailand 90 days - file a 90-day report (online/mail/in person)

 

change permanent address - file a TM-27 with immigration, no need to report anything to local police.  (mail/in person)  [TM-28 goes away]

 

travel around thailand, return to home - no reporting required.

 

stay in hotel - hotel files TM-30 online

 

stay with friend - friend should maybe file TM-30, but probably won't.

Pretty good summary. I've been here 7 years. Travel both within and fly out Thailand 20 times per year.

Never done a tm30. I'm on extensions based on retirement never been asked. Having said that been same condo.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, jackdd said:

This section is 37.2 in the old version of the law, this report was always directed at immigration police, never at regular police, no change here.

The one I have states this.

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason
that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official
of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

13 minutes ago, jackdd said:

This is wrong.

I wrote apparently which is my opinion.

Show me any immigration website that has the TM27 form on it. All the reporting was done using the current version of the TM28 form .

They resurrected the TM27 form.

24 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Most of what was written in OP is wrong, the only change is that retirees, spouses of Thais and some others are now officially exempt from TM28 (for example tourists, non-b holders and many others have always been exempt).

 

That is your opinion.

I wrote what the change is and what it means. 

Who would be left that would have to comply with 3 and 4 of section 37.

 

26 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You should correct your first post, because many people here blindly believe what you say and this might cause confusion.

How would what I wrote confuse any body. They can read the entire regulation it they want to.

[jackdd]

17 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The one I have states this.

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason
that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official
of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

As you can see it says "competent official" and not "police official of the local police station" as sections 3 and 4 do. This section has always been like this, no change done.

If you read the ministerial order (or the TM27 form) concerning this section you will see that the "competent official" has always been immigration police, everything as before.

 

17 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Show me any immigration website that has the TM27 form on it. All the reporting was done using the current version of the TM28 form .

It has probably always been on the official immigration website, but at least since a few months, because back then i posted the link to it:

On 8/29/2019 at 1:48 PM, jackdd said:

Are you sure? https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1542264289117.pdf

You quoted Section 37 (2) = TM27

Section 37 (3) and (4) = TM28

Section 37 (5) = TM47

It can also be found in the document from 1979 http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

 

16 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

How would what I wrote confuse any body. They can read the entire regulation it they want to.

Because some people will treat what you say as a fact. So they think there was a bigger change than there actually was.

But besides of what has now changed in regard to TM27/28 or not, you could add a sentence to your first post that nothing in regard of TM30 has changed, because many people will ask about it.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by jackdd

[ChouDoufu]

37 minutes ago, jackdd said:

As a temporary visitor you don't have a "permanent address", you only have a place where you stay.

The law says "if you can not stay at the place as indicated on your arrival card you have to submit a TM27". In the original Thai they also say "can", if you just don't want it obviously doesn't apply.

So if you write the address of your wife's house on the arrival card, but when you arrive there and see that it burned down, then you obviously can not stay there and have to submit a TM27 when you stay at another place.

If you arrive at your house, and see that your mother in law moved in and thus you don't want to stay there (but theoretically could), then you don't have to submit a TM27 when staying somewhere else.

Totally clear, right? This is probably the reason everybody ignored this section for the last 40+ years. In the future it will probably be ignored as well.

true.  we have no permanent address.  ever.   at least not until we die.  and even then, no guarantee they won't dig up the graveyard.

 

we gotta call it something, though.  how about official or registered address? 

but that still won't differentiate long-stayers who own a condo from a backpacker spending a night in a cheap hostel.

 

what would you suggest to differentiate the address of a place a long-term resident habitually resides at when not traveling, a residence for which the resider may get a certificate of residency for, from a string of overnights a tourist stays at?

[DannyCarlton]

38 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

How would what I wrote confuse any body. They can read the entire regulation it they want to

And be even more confused. I think it best that I carry on doing what I do now vis-a-vis leaving and returning to my province, leaving and returning to Thailand........nothing.

[jackdd]

20 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

but that still won't differentiate long-stayers who own a condo from a backpacker spending a night in a cheap hostel.

Under Thai immigration law there is no difference between these two, the official Thai wording (translated in English) for both is "temporary visitor to the kingdom".

A week in a hotel, or a week in your wife's house, are treated equal, both will be considered the place where you stay for this time.

 

20 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

what would you suggest to differentiate the address of a place a long-term resident habitually resides at when not traveling, a residence for which the resider may get a certificate of residency for, from a string of overnights a tourist stays at?

There is no real need to differentiate it, because there is no difference. The tourist staying at a hotel can also get a certificate of residence.

People are getting confused because they consider themself as living at their wife's house "permanently", but truth is that they aren't, regarding Thai immigration regulations they have the same status as any tourist. If you still want to express a difference it could be something like "staying at my (wife's) house/condo", then everybody would still understand that this is your long term accomodation.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by jackdd

[ubonjoe]

44 minutes ago, jackdd said:

It has probably always been on the official immigration website, but at least since a few months, because back then i posted the link to it:

Try to find it here now. https://www.immigration.go.th/download/

 

[jackdd]

36 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Try to find it here now. https://www.immigration.go.th/download/

What's your point?

As we can see from my previously quoted post, the TM27 has been on the immigration website before (actually still there, just the link has been removed and they didn't put up the link to the "clean" form yet), the contents haven't changed, so the TM27 is nothing new.

 

[rick44]

Anyone got a link to the official Thai version?

[ubonjoe]

33 minutes ago, rick44 said:

Anyone got a link to the official Thai version?

I have not seen one. Immigration posted it in English on their website so that one can be considered official.

[rick44]

26 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I have not seen one. Immigration posted it in English on their website so that one can be considered official.

Thanks. Yes, noticed it was on their site. Cannot find a Thai version, which is strange... Not in their News section either. And the English language is as usual lousy, so God only knows what kind of misinterpretations have entered the English version...

[Dumbastheycome]

So. Just  back  from Savannakhet  with a  new  12 month multi  Non O  visa stamped in  for 90  days.

What  are my obligations ?

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

So. Just  back  from Savannakhet  with a  new  12 month multi  Non O  visa stamped in  for 90  days.

What  are my obligations ?

 

Based on your description of your situation, your obligations are the as they were before.

[Maestro]

9 hours ago, jackdd said:

...f you read the ministerial order...

 

I shall greatly appreciate it if you will kindly post the link to the "ministerial order" to which you refer here.