Immigration Has Changed Their Regulation For A Change Of Address Report

[Maestro]

9 hours ago, jackdd said:

As you can see it says "competent official" and not "police official of the local police station" as sections 3 and 4 do. This section has always been like this, no change done.

 

Correct. There has been no change in the text of section 37 of the Immigration Act and as far as I can see no prior post has claimed that there was any change.

 

[Maestro]

9 hours ago, jackdd said:

you will see that the "competent official" has always been immigration police, everything as before...

 

"Competent official"  is defined in section 4 of the Immigration Act and this definition has never been changed so far:

 

Quote

“Competent Official” means any officer appointed by the Minister for the execution of this Act.

 

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post about the TM.30 notification and the reply to it.

[Maestro]

12 hours ago, jackdd said:

This section is 37.2 in the old version of the law

 

As far as I can determine, section 37(2) of the Immigration Act has never changed, there is not an old version and a new version. This is the original version of 1979:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1B5hLsIRKmrX6c6VIi_h40xA8q5z4PrUC

 

If you have a newer version of the Immigration Act with a different text for section 37(2), a link to that version of the Immigration Act will be appreciated

[JohnOFphon]

Ok. so. I am moving to a new condo today. One year contract. Will be a different address as on the last arrival card.

I fill in the TM27 and then what do I do with it? If it goes to IM, can I mail it in?

No TM28....correct?

 

 

[jackdd]

7 hours ago, Maestro said:

I shall greatly appreciate it if you will kindly post the link to the "ministerial order" to which you refer here.

I was obviously referring to this police order, which i mistakenly referred to as ministerial order, which shows that this report has always done to immigration police: http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

 

6 hours ago, Maestro said:

Correct. There has been no change in the text of section 37 of the Immigration Act and as far as I can see no prior post has claimed that there was any change.

In the OP ubonjoe wrote that the reporting under section 37 changed, and that reporting under 37(2) is now done to immigration police, implying that it was previously done to regular police. But it was always done to immigration police, so there was no change.

 

4 hours ago, Maestro said:

As far as I can determine, section 37(2) of the Immigration Act has never changed

Yes, that's my point. By calling it "old version", i did not want to say that they changed, just that there are two different "releases", the one in the law (37(2)), and the one in the police order (2.1)

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, jackdd said:

In the OP ubonjoe wrote that the reporting under section 37 changed, and that reporting under 37(2) is now done to immigration police, implying that it was previously done to regular police. But it was always done to immigration police, so there was no change.

You are misreading or putting more into it than what wrote.

Clause 2 of section 37 says this not immigration or police.

"2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason
that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official
of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place."

The TM28 form had police on it.

 

 

 

 

[jackdd]

31 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You are misreading or putting more into it than what wrote.

Clause 2 of section 37 says this not immigration or police.

"2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason
that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official
of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place."

The TM28 form had police on it.

If you follow the definiton of "competent official" through the definition quoted by Maestro, up to the final police order, it's clear that the "competent official" always meant "immigration officer" (every version of the TM27 confirms this as well). Just that in the police order they directly write "immigration officer".

You wrote in the OP: "The change to 2.1 is that it only mentions reporting to immigration with no mention of doing it to the police."

This reporting was never done to the regular police, so why would you specifically mention "police" (and call it "change"), unless you implied that it previously was done to regular police. TM27 is for doing a report under 37(2) in the law and 2.1 in the police order.

 

Why do you mention TM28? This has nothing to do with 37(2) or 2.1

 

You say "The TM28 form had police on it", again implying that this changed by using "had".

The TM28 form hasn't changed, it "has" police on it.

TM28 is for doing a report under sections 37(3) and (4) in the law and sections 2.2 and 2.3 in the police order.

With the newest police order i think all foreigners who entered Thailand legally are now exempt from TM28.

Foreigners who entered Thailand illegally do the TM28 report to their local police station as probably always.

[gk10002000]

"proper reason" makes the whole thing completely arbitrary and ambiguous.  I do not see how anything binding or absolute is explicitly clear or stated

[Moonlover]

19 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

19 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

so does this cover it in simple english?

 

 

arrive in thailand - fill out a TM-6, file a TM-30 (online/mail/in person)

 

stay in thailand 90 days - file a 90-day report (online/mail/in person)

 

change permanent address - file a TM-27 with immigration, no need to report anything to local police.  (mail/in person)  [TM-28 goes away]

 

travel around thailand, return to home - no reporting required.

 

stay in hotel - hotel files TM-30 online

 

stay with friend - friend should maybe file TM-30, but probably won't.

Yes, I think you've nailed it.

 

My interpretation was: I'll just carry on doing what I've been doing for the last 5 years. Nothing. I didn't even know these ridiculous reporting rules existed.

[OJAS]

22 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The order also apparently eliminates the use of the TM28 form for the reporting. The regulation includes a new TM27 form titled.

 

So bang would appear to be any chance of the TM6 arrival/departure card being likely scrapped for us foreigners any time soon, then.

[vivananahuahin]

En wat about if i leave the country for a few days and come back with a new visa and at the same addres.

What to do?

[WaveHunter]

In SIMPLE English, if you are on a long-stay visa and permanently relocate to a new address within the Kingdom, you simply fill out a TM-27 form and hand it in at your new provincial Immigration office.  Is that correct?

 

If you are not permanently relocating, but say, taking a multi-day vacation to somewhere else within the Kingdom (but maintaining your permanent home address), you don't have to do anything unusual at all.  Is that correct?

 

If both of these points are correct, I'm not sure why this thread is 4 pages long.  What am I missing?

[wcoast]

Ubon Joe, do you read section 6:13 as being a teacher, in my case, a government school, as being exempt from reporting being away for more than 24hrs?

Thx

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

So bang would appear to be any chance of the TM6 arrival/departure card being likely scrapped for us foreigners any time soon, then.

 

Another example of saying one thing, and then turning around and doing something else (or in this case not doing what had been promised previously) on Immigration's part.

 

When I made my most recent international trip back in December, my first in about a year's time, I kept wondering upon my return would they have finally done away with the TM 6 forms as I believe had been previously announced was coming. But upon arrival, sure enough, everyone still doing TM6s as usual and as have done for years.

 

So, so much for that one!  When it comes to these guys, the best course to follow is, "I'll believe it when I see it," and not until then.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

TM28 is for doing a report under sections 37(3) and (4) in the law and sections 2.2 and 2.3 in the police order.

With the newest police order i think all foreigners who entered Thailand legally are now exempt from TM28.

 

I'm trying to follow this running discussion between you and Joe...

 

So based on your reading of things, the main change in this latest missive from Immigration is effectively exempting retirees, those married to a Thai and the long list of other exempted groups to the TM28 world, meaning all those groups no longer have to deal with TM28s?

 

But, if someone is relocating from their ongoing home location as previously established and reported, then they are required to file a TM27 reporting that?  And nothing at all changing re TM30s?

 

Is that basically your view?

 

[ChouDoufu]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You are misreading or putting more into it than what wrote.

Clause 2 of section 37 says this not immigration or police.

"2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason
that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official
of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place."

The TM28 form had police on it.

 

 

 

 

is this change just the government getting caught up with life in the 20th century?

 

the regulations were written during the dark ages when there were not immigration offices in all provinces, and foreigners would be obliged to register instead with local police.

[Maestro]

THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT THE TM.30 NOTIFICATION.

 

All posts about TM.30 are being removed.

[Maestro]

I have added the Police Regulation dated 14.01.2020 that has been linked to in the OP to the list in the pinned topic Laws, regulations, Police Orders, etc (currently number 23 in the list) 

[Maestro]

As the Police Regulation, to which a link was given in the OP,  mentions and as has been pointed out in several posts in this topic, it was issued by virtue of section 37 of the Immigration Act. The specific text is the penultimate paragraph of section 37, which in the English translation downloaded from krisdika.com reads as follows

 

Quote

For the provisions of subsections (3) and (4) not to be applicable to any of the cases mentioned in Section 34 and on what conditions, it shall be prescribed by the Director-General.

 

and in the translation previously available on the website of the Immigration Bureau reads as follows

 

Quote

The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General.

 

Section 4 of the Immigration Act defines Director General as the Director-General of the Police Department.

 

Since no earlier version of a Police Regulation issued under the authority of section 37 is known nor mentioned in the Police Order dated 14.01.2020 it appears that after 40 years, the Police Department finally got around to excluding officially all foreigners who are not Permanent Residents from the notification requirement under subsections (3) and (4) of section 37. Better late than never.

 

CORRECTION: There was, in fact, this Police Regulation issued under the authority of section 37 in 1979:

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

 

[jackdd]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So based on your reading of things, the main change in this latest missive from Immigration is effectively exempting retirees, those married to a Thai and the long list of other exempted groups to the TM28 world, meaning all those groups no longer have to deal with TM28s?

Yes.

But TM28 wasn't enforced anyway, so effectively no change.

 

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But, if someone is relocating from their ongoing home location as previously established and reported, then they are required to file a TM27 reporting that?  And nothing at all changing re TM30s?

According to immigration act section 37(2) and the police order section 2.1: You have to submit a TM27 if you are unable to stay at the place as indicated on your arrival card. This would also mean that if you are able to stay there, but just don't want to stay there, then you would not have to report.

This does of course not make much sense, but this is what was written in 1979. This might be a reason why this law was (afaik) never applied since it was enacted (anybody ever completed a TM27?) We will see if immigration will continue to ignore it.

 

[jackdd]

12 minutes ago, Maestro said:

Since no earlier version of a Police Regulation issued under the authority of section 37 is known

You mean besides the one from 1979?  http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

In 1979 they exempted most foreigners who entered Thailand legally. But back then the non-o visa didn't exist, so when they later introduced the non-o visa they forgot to make these people exempt from TM28 as well.

 

12 minutes ago, Maestro said:

excluding officially all foreigners who are not Permanent Residents

This regulation affects only people who are in Thailand temporarily, so permanent residents are excluded per se.

[Maestro]

4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

According to immigration act section 37(2) and the police order section 2.1: You have to submit a TM27 if you are unable to stay at the place as indicated on your arrival card. This would also mean that if you are able to stay there, but just don't want to stay there, then you would not have to report.

This does of course not make much sense, but this is what was written in 1979

 

No, this was not written in 1979. The following is the official text of section 37(2):

 

Quote

(๑)^๖ ไม่ประกอบอาชีพหรือรับจ้างทํางาน เว้นแต่จะได้รับอนุญาตตามกฎหมายว่าด้วย การประกอบธุรกิจของคนต่างด้าวหรือกฎหมายว่าด้วยการบริหารจัดการการทํางานของคนต่างด้าว

^๖ มาตรา ๓๗ (๑) แก้ไขเพิ่มเติมโดยพระราชกำหนดแก้ไขเพิ่มเติมพระราชบัญญัติคนเข้าเมือง พ.ศ. ๒๕๒๒ พ.ศ. ๒๕๖๑

 

 

[jackdd]

9 minutes ago, Maestro said:

No, this was not written in 1979. The following is the official text of section 37(2):

What you quoted is the updated (in 2018) version of 37(1), not section 37(2).

[Maestro]

23 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You mean besides the one from 1979?  http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

In 1979 they exempted most foreigners who entered Thailand legally. But back then the non-o visa didn't exist, so when they later introduced the non-o visa they forgot to make these people exempt from TM28 as well.

 

You are right. I keep forgetting about the Police Regulation (ระบียบกรมตำรวจ) of 1979. My apologies to the Police Department.

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

What you quoted is the updated (in 2018) version of 37(1), not section 37(2).

 

Got it. Immigration Act section 37(2), Police Regulation of 2020, article 2.1

 

Soon, I shall need GPS to navigate all this.

[overherebc]

On 2/20/2020 at 12:50 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I guess it would be too much to hope that Thai Immigration would ever promulgate a clear, plainly worded regulation on any topic that could be easily and consistently interpreted and understood by Immigration and expats alike

End result.

 

Just keep reporting everything as before according to the way your local office has been doing it then nobody has to think too hard or too much.

[jacko45k]

On 2/21/2020 at 9:53 AM, Moonlover said:

Yes, I think you've nailed it.

 

My interpretation was: I'll just carry on doing what I've been doing for the last 5 years. Nothing. I didn't even know these ridiculous reporting rules existed.

Yeah me too, except for a few years longer.... ( I knew they existed, but figured if they don't trip me up, I won't volunteer to be tripped up).