Covid insurance -Thai meanings

[LivinLOS]

I am lucky to have a great Thai family in my wifes lot. Never been asked for anything much and always treated well. 

If they became sick I would want to help them, but there's a lot of them. Instead I am looking to buy all of them one of these thai insurance policies as a gift now, and in a selfish way to not be asked later. 

 

What I am trying to do is work out the best balance of policies.. I want to heavily insure (and possibly add life payout cover) to the elder ones, with lighter medical only for the 20 - 50 age group ones. I of course do not want to benefit from this but as I may be looking at >20 people, I would like to ensure I get the best value for money. Medical treatment and paying hospital directly are the goals. 

I would like help with the following column translations. 
1 is age

2 is costs

3 is when cover kick in

4 is ?? Payout for a test, or paying in the result of a positive test ?? 

5 is medical cover / Hospital payout  ??
6 is coma ?? 

7 is death payout (to next of kin) ??

Mostly I am confused about 4.. My wifes first translation was that was to pay for the test.. But 100k payouts make no sense and even tho my Thai is terrible my logic tells me thats a payout in the event of a positive test. In which case thats more or as much as some of the medical cover. Plus they would then get the full amount were medical cover just pays 'up to' what is used. 

I would be very grateful if the Thai readers could chime in on this. 

[LivinLOS]

Another one sent to me is this. 

1) In the event of coma (does this mean ICU ventilator ??) 

2) for medical / nursing cover (not in policy 1)

3) payout for test (is this paid out in full on a pos test result or to pay the hospital to a maximum of) ?? 

4) per day payout (is this per day for hospital or per day to the person for loss of earnings ??) 

 

This would be an interesting policy if 1) covers enhanced medical treatment ventilator / ICU ?? It says 'coma' but does that mean anyone who needs breathing assistance ?? 

 

 

[LivinLOS]

Then theres this policy from Frank.co.th.. I hastily purchased this for the mother in law last week. 

 

https://www.frank.co.th/en/corona-virus-insurance

 

2 grades but for 850b it offers 100k of medical (paid direct to the hospital) and a million for 'Any illnesses such as coma, brain and nervous system damage or disorders, terminal illness, and or death that is a direct result from the Coronavirus where a physician has determined that there is no cure for which has been caused by coronavirus (2019-nCoV) virus.' now I assumed that meant to pay for hospital care but it would seem that this is a death or disability payout for lifetime injury incurred from COVID rather than ICU support. 

 

I have been back and forth with them on this and they have given confusing answers, it covers coma etc.. Initially the statement was 

 

Quote

The product covers all medical expenses including the test of the coronavirus if you test positive. All hospital expenses are covered under the package. They have not been split by ICU and or hospital room. If you have been admitted into the hospital, you also do not need to prepay, the insurance company will deal with the hospital directly in Thailand.

But repeated digging and asking the response was

Quote

Any illnesses such as coma, brain and nervous system damage or disorders, terminal illness, and or death that is a direct result from the Coronavirus where a physician has determined that there is no cure for which has been caused by coronavirus (2019-nCoV) virus

If you meet those conditions, then the insurance company will cover you at the sum of 1 million baht for the 850 baht package

Medical treatment from infections (Coronavirus(2019-nCoV)) is 100k means the amount of coverage you get from being treated for the coronavirus regardless of your severity or state. 

Hence the million cover is for serious illness (coma etc) but not serious illness (ventilator). Theres a lot of grey area in that to me ??? 

So this leads to a case where if your sick on a ventilator they only pay 100k, but if you die, they pay the million.. 

[LivinLOS]

Heres another summary of policies.. 

[ricklev]

8 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Then theres this policy from Frank.co.th.. I hastily purchased this for the mother in law last week. 

 

https://www.frank.co.th/en/corona-virus-insurance

 

2 grades but for 850b it offers 100k of medical (paid direct to the hospital) and a million for 'Any illnesses such as coma, brain and nervous system damage or disorders, terminal illness, and or death that is a direct result from the Coronavirus where a physician has determined that there is no cure for which has been caused by coronavirus (2019-nCoV) virus.' now I assumed that meant to pay for hospital care but it would seem that this is a death or disability payout for lifetime injury incurred from COVID rather than ICU support. 

 

I have been back and forth with them on this and they have given confusing answers, it covers coma etc.. Initially the statement was 

 

But repeated digging and asking the response was

Hence the million cover is for serious illness (coma etc) but not serious illness (ventilator). Theres a lot of grey area in that to me ??? 

So this leads to a case where if your sick on a ventilator they only pay 100k, but if you die, they pay the million.. 

I bought that policy from Frank because it was online and easy and Dhipaya is the actual insurer and they have my regular policy.  But it is absolutely impossible to understand what it actually covers!  I guess it will cover my deductable if need be.....

[LivinLOS]

8 minutes ago, ricklev said:

I bought that policy from Frank because it was online and easy and Dhipaya is the actual insurer and they have my regular policy.  But it is absolutely impossible to understand what it actually covers!  I guess it will cover my deductable if need be.....

Yeh agreed.. The answers I have got over a 30 email back and forth lack clarity and even the resolution seems to leave a huge grey area for disallowing claims. The emails went like. 

So what is the million baht payout for?? 

..Any serious illness caused by Corona, including coma, nervous system failure, terminal illness or death (theres a difference??) 

OK so that covers ICU??

..No the medical cover is for 100k

So if your in a coma ??

..Yes then its for a million baht

So being on a ventilator in ICU isnt a 'serious illness caused by corona'??

..No according to the terms of this policy it isnt

So if you die its not serious??

..Yes they you are covered for 1 million.. 

 

An insane back and forth.. What happens if your on a ventilator (100k cover), slip into a coma (now its a million baht), then wake up and dont die ?? 

Theres a million edge cases where I would imagine the insurer doesnt pay. I look at it as 100k medical and 1 mil death. However thats still one of the better options for me to insure the elder family members. 100k is about as high as any of these cheap packages go and thier kids would get a mil in the worst case of mortality. 

[LivinLOS]

anyone recognize this logo ?? 

Looks to be the cheapest 100k medical coverage I can see. 

[LivinLOS]

Top one is Syn Mun Kong... www.smk.co.th

[edwardandtubs]

Here's an idea. Could you sign up to 10 of these packages that offer 100,000 baht in medical expenses for about 500 baht? It would cost about 5000 baht and give you 1 million baht medical cover.

[Jip99]

7 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

Here's an idea. Could you sign up to 10 of these packages that offer 100,000 baht in medical expenses for about 500 baht? It would cost about 5000 baht and give you 1 million baht medical cover.

 

 

 

You should be Prime Minister with creative thinking like that .....????

[connda]

I wonder how many of these insurance companies will be insolvent following an economic meltdown due to the Covid-19 panic?  

 

Next.  Take a look at the premiums for the amount covered.  The inexpensive premiums are a reflection of the insurance company's calculation of the odds of you contracting the virus.  And the premiums are dirt cheap as reflected in the cost to benefit ratio.  The insurance companies are betting that Covid-19 is a non-issue, that it is not the "pandemic" that it has been declared to be, and that you most likely will not collect benefits from them.  I just looked at one policy: 850THB for 1,000,000THB Covid-19 insurance.  Amazing!

I hadn't seen that before.  How immensely interesting!  Thanks for posts.  

[ricklev]

26 minutes ago, connda said:

I wonder how many of these insurance companies will be insolvent following an economic meltdown due to the Covid-19 panic?  

 

Next.  Take a look at the premiums for the amount covered.  The inexpensive premiums are a reflection of the insurance company's calculation of the odds of you contracting the virus.  And the premiums are dirt cheap as reflected in the cost to benefit ratio.  The insurance companies are betting that Covid-19 is a non-issue, that it is not the "pandemic" that it has been declared to be, and that you most likely will not collect benefits from them.  I just looked at one policy: 850THB for 1,000,000THB Covid-19 insurance.  Amazing!

I hadn't seen that before.  How immensely interesting!  Thanks for posts. 

Well, remember it's not just the percentage ofinsured people that get coronavirus that matters to the insurance company, but the percentage of those  people that need to be hospitalized, and the percentage who subsequently die, which is a fairly small percentage.  I'm sure that they have pretty competent  actuaries to assess the risk. It sure would be interesting to be privy to their statistics and assumptions.

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by ricklev

[Jip99]

57 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

You should be Prime Minister with creative thinking like that .....????

 

 

Actually, I need to retract my statement and criticise your lack of attention to detail (could still be PM on that basis!):-

 

4. Limit the purchase of 1 person per insured amount not more than 1 million baht.

 

[edwardandtubs]

49 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Actually, I need to retract my statement and criticise your lack of attention to detail (could still be PM on that basis!):-

 

4. Limit the purchase of 1 person per insured amount not more than 1 million baht.

 

I meant buy 10 from 10 different insurers.

[LivinLOS]

11 hours ago, ricklev said:

Well, remember it's not just the percentage ofinsured people that get coronavirus that matters to the insurance company, but the percentage of those  people that need to be hospitalized, and the percentage who subsequently die, which is a fairly small percentage.  I'm sure that they have pretty competent  actuaries to assess the risk. It sure would be interesting to be privy to their statistics and assumptions.

 

Despite the fact that these companies will have offset that risk to other secondary insurers.. I am still betting they got the sums wrong.. 

Markets and risk analysis is a actuarial science only when you have good data to base those tables on, this is a new thing and plenty of guesswork in effect. 

Some of those policies pay out 100% (not just medical costs) on event of a pos test, so for 450b they payout 100k, thats a bet that less than 1 in 20 get it. That bet looks like poor judgement to me. 

[EricTh]

Did anyone here read the terms and conditions? 

 

Does it state that if we travel to high risk countries (Europe, China, USA) after we got our insurance, our insurance will be void?

 

I looked at my COVID insurance and there seems to be tons of terms and conditions.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by EricTh

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, EricTh said:

Did anyone here read the terms and conditions? 

 

Does it state that if we travel to high risk countries (Europe, China, USA) , our insurance will be void?

 

 

These are cheap Thai policies.. I very much doubt they are going to cover you internationally. 

[EricTh]

Just now, LivinLOS said:

These are cheap Thai policies.. I very much doubt they are going to cover you internationally. 

What I mean is that if we travel out of Thailand for a few days to high risk countries, got infected there  and then come back to Thailand.

 

Are we still covered in Thailand?

[LivinLOS]

You do realize your not going to travel out of the country and be let back in (without a covid lab test) ?? 

 

The window of travel options is closed. 

[stouricks]

10 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

I meant buy 10 from 10 different insurers.

Not allowed to cover the same 'incident' with several policies, except in the case of life insurance. If you took out 5 car insurance policies, wrote the car off, you would not get the value of the vehicle from all of them.

[ricklev]

38 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Despite the fact that these companies will have offset that risk to other secondary insurers.. I am still betting they got the sums wrong.. 

Markets and risk analysis is a actuarial science only when you have good data to base those tables on, this is a new thing and plenty of guesswork in effect. 

Some of those policies pay out 100% (not just medical costs) on event of a pos test, so for 450b they payout 100k, thats a bet that less than 1 in 20 get it. That bet looks like poor judgement to me. 

Yes, you are right about some of the policies paying off on a positive test.  Maybe you are also right about the shortcomings of actuarial science too.  I'm assuming they really study how to assess and distribute the risk in situations like this with unknown variables but I could be wrong.  

Edited March 22, 2020 by ricklev

[LivinLOS]

Another reseller of previous posted Viriya offering

https://rabbit.finance/insurance/viriyah-covid-19-plan3/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=image&utm_campaign=fb-viriyah-insurance-covid-conversion&utm_content=audience-thailand-mass&utm_term=image-mask-lose&fbclid=IwAR0lAuC4AXUxKwmGYTWbM0CIFIyI4N7EWLIDHHbymVTCOjxk7QKmasManBM

 

[edwardandtubs]

On 3/22/2020 at 10:27 AM, stouricks said:

Not allowed to cover the same 'incident' with several policies, except in the case of life insurance. If you took out 5 car insurance policies, wrote the car off, you would not get the value of the vehicle from all of them.

I wouldn't expect to. I mean if the medical bills come to 300,000 baht and you bought insurance from 2 different companies offering 100,000 baht coverage, what would stop you claiming 100,000 baht from each company and paying the remainder yourself?

[stouricks]

27 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

I wouldn't expect to. I mean if the medical bills come to 300,000 baht and you bought insurance from 2 different companies offering 100,000 baht coverage, what would stop you claiming 100,000 baht from each company and paying the remainder yourself?

The T&Cs. When I claimed it asked if any other policy covered the same illness. Obviously I said no, but I can imagine if I did, the companies would be fighting over how little each would have to pay.

[LivinLOS]

It was published in one of the news items (think bp) that this was legal, you for take multiple medical policies and they would pay up to the medical used by using multiples from different underwriters. 

 

They also mentioned concerns about the moral hazard of people taking multiple lump sum policies and then bring careless about infection. 

 

Also to be noted almost all of these policies have been withdrawn as they have hit underwriters limits. I personally think the math makes no sense, I have bought iirc 24 policies the bulk being 450b for a lump sum of 100k and a handful of 850b 100k medical and 1 million death for the elderly family. So if any one of 24 people get sick, there is 100k payout on about 11 or 12k of premium. How does that make any sense. 

[Solinvictus]

In none of the posted pictures do I see GSB. Or am I blind?  Just mentioning as I got my insurance from GSB Bank.

Some places want a work permit and others don't.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Solinvictus

[BigT73]

45 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

have bought iirc 24 policies the bulk being 450b for a lump sum of 100k and a handful of 850b 100k medical and 1 million death for the elderly family. So if any one of 24 people get sick, there is 100k payout on about 11 or 12k of premium.

Sounds like alot of raffle tickets.

[LivinLOS]

16 hours ago, BigT73 said:

Sounds like alot of raffle tickets.

????

 

Hopefully it gives them some cover if in need.. Not confident in the payouts to be honest but its millions in cover for something like 12k baht ?!? 

[LivinLOS]

17 hours ago, Solinvictus said:

In none of the posted pictures do I see GSB. Or am I blind?  Just mentioning as I got my insurance from GSB Bank.

Some places want a work permit and others don't.

I think that is because the images are the underwriters (mostly) and GSB is simply being a broker for https://www.dhipaya.co.th/

[steve187]

On 3/24/2020 at 8:29 PM, Solinvictus said:

In none of the posted pictures do I see GSB. Or am I blind?  Just mentioning as I got my insurance from GSB Bank.

Some places want a work permit and others don't.

which ones don't require a work permit as that would apply to all on a retirement extension.

frank require work permit, as does krungsri for the same insurance company as frank, so i have been here  6+months on a married yearly extension, who will cover me for the 100,000thb coverage