UK orders 10,000 ventilators from Dyson for coronavirus patients

[webfact]

UK orders 10,000 ventilators from Dyson for coronavirus patients

By Paul Sandle and Kate Holton

 

FILE PHOTO: A Dyson logo is seen on one of company's products presented during an event in Beijing, China September 12, 2018. REUTERS/Damir Sagolj/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain has ordered 10,000 medical ventilators designed at breakneck speed by vacuum cleaner-maker Dyson, billionaire founder James Dyson said, as the country tries to boost the number of devices available to treat coronavirus patients.

 

The government, in anticipation of cases peaking in Britain in coming weeks, had made an urgent appeal to manufacturers to supply the National Health Service and would also use devices from private hospitals and other sources.

 

"We have received an initial order of 10,000 units from the UK Government which we will supply on an open-book basis," James Dyson said on Wednesday in an email to staff seen by Reuters.

 

"We are also looking at ways of making it available internationally."

 

The government did not comment on the Dyson email.

 

Britain had been in talks with over 3,000 businesses about supplying ventilators to quickly increase the health service's capacity, Prime Minister Boris Johnson's spokesman said earlier on Wednesday.

 

But he stressed that any design would need regulatory approval.

 

The country's existing stock of about 5,000-8,000 ventilators is inadequate if cases jump as predicted. The number of coronavirus deaths in Britain rose by 41 to 465 on Wednesday.

 

Dyson said since receiving a call from Johnson 10 days ago, he had refocused resources at his company, and worked with TTP, The Technology Partnership, to design and build an entirely new ventilator, The CoVent.

 

It deployed its expertise in air movement, motors, power systems, manufacturing and supply chain gained from its products like air purifiers and fans as well as cleaners to develop the ventilator from scratch.

 

The company, which revolutionized the vacuum cleaner market with its bagless cyclonic device in the 1990s, said it would work with regulators and government to ensure that the product and the manufacturing process was approved.

 

Dyson said it was "clearly a time of grave international crisis", and he would therefore donate 5,000 units to the international effort, 1,000 of which would go to the United Kingdom.

 

Separately, British engineer Babcock International Group Plc said it had joined forces with a leading medical equipment company to design and supply thousands of critical care ventilators.

 

A number of other firms had joined forces to potentially develop and manufacture a ventilator, including Airbus, Smiths Group Plc , Ford Motor Co and McLaren.

 

Reuters had reported earlier that British industry expected the government to give the go-ahead for an emergency ventilator production plan on Wednesday.

 

(Reporting by Paul Sandle and Kate Holton; additional reporting by William James; Editing by Lisa Shumaker)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-03-26

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[bristolboy]

What I don't understand is why the government didn't mandate that companies already manufacturing ventilators share their design and specs with companies like Dyson. Why delay by designing your own?

[anterian]

29 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

What I don't understand is why the government didn't mandate that companies already manufacturing ventilators share their design and specs with companies like Dyson. Why delay by designing your own?

There is nothing special or trade secret worthy in a ventilator. Dyson already makes air purifiers and scrubbers, it just needs a few valves, pressure gauges and plastic tubing and you have a ventilator. Problem is it normally takes over a year for a new design to be approved.  

[billd766]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

What I don't understand is why the government didn't mandate that companies already manufacturing ventilators share their design and specs with companies like Dyson. Why delay by designing your own?

Perhaps Dyson can make it at cheaper price and still be an effective piece of equipment.

[alanrchase]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

What I don't understand is why the government didn't mandate that companies already manufacturing ventilators share their design and specs with companies like Dyson. Why delay by designing your own?

When I worked for an aircraft manufacturer we came upon a thing called a lead in time. That is the time it takes to procure the tools, jigs, etc and get set up to start manufacturing. Certain spares had a lead in time of over 12 months. It is possible that due to Dysons current manufacturing set up it would be quicker to design and produce their own ventilator.

[spider1197]

A ventilator is a very complex instrument.  I know because I worked for a company that developed, manufactured and distributed ventilators.  As one person said they are made up of valves, pressure and flow sensors but many more components than that.  Probably the most complex components are the electronics and software.  So I don't see a vacuum cleaner company developing a ventilator that would have to be approved by the officials, very quickly.  I would say at least three years at least.

[sharksy]

8 hours ago, bristolboy said:

What I don't understand is why the government didn't mandate that companies already manufacturing ventilators share their design and specs with companies like Dyson. Why delay by designing your own?

I believe a company already has shared a design (smiths, if I remember correctly)

[natway09]

Dyson make the most expensive anything. 

Their fans retailing for 16,000 Bht can be purchased from Tiawan for 3,500 Bht

Brit robbers

[Ketyo]

"Dyson said since receiving a call from Johnson 10 days ago, he had refocused resources at his company, and worked with TTP, The Technology Partnership, to design and build an entirely new ventilator, The CoVent."

 

What I don't understand is it was published in the UK press in February that Britain only had 50 spare ventilators in the country that were not already being used. And that the deaths from overwhelmed health services in China and Italy have been known about for weeks. So why is it only 10 days ago that Boris acted.

[billd766]

19 hours ago, spider1197 said:

A ventilator is a very complex instrument.  I know because I worked for a company that developed, manufactured and distributed ventilators.  As one person said they are made up of valves, pressure and flow sensors but many more components than that.  Probably the most complex components are the electronics and software.  So I don't see a vacuum cleaner company developing a ventilator that would have to be approved by the officials, very quickly.  I would say at least three years at least.

But Dyson is not just a vacuum cleaner company.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_(company)

 

Type	Private company
Industry	Technology
Founded	8 July 1991; 28 years ago (as Barleta Ltd.)[1]
Founder	James Dyson
Headquarters	Wiltshire, England[2]
Key people	James Dyson (Chief engineer) Jim Rowan (CEO) Jake Dyson (Chief Lighting Engineer)[3]
Products	Vacuum cleaners, hand dryers, desk fans, air purifiers, hair dryers, LED lamps (see products listing)
Revenue	£4.4 billion (2018)[4]
Net income	£1.1 billion (2018)[4]
Owner	James Dyson
Number of employees	>12,000 (2018)[5]
Website	www.dyson.co.uk/en.html

[StevieAus]

On 3/26/2020 at 5:06 PM, spider1197 said:

A ventilator is a very complex instrument.  I know because I worked for a company that developed, manufactured and distributed ventilators.  As one person said they are made up of valves, pressure and flow sensors but many more components than that.  Probably the most complex components are the electronics and software.  So I don't see a vacuum cleaner company developing a ventilator that would have to be approved by the officials, very quickly.  I would say at least three years at least.

Well let’s hope for the sake of the British public that Mr Dyson proves you wrong.

[Muzzique]

On 3/26/2020 at 11:06 AM, spider1197 said:

A ventilator is a very complex instrument.  I know because I worked for a company that developed, manufactured and distributed ventilators.  As one person said they are made up of valves, pressure and flow sensors but many more components than that.  Probably the most complex components are the electronics and software.  So I don't see a vacuum cleaner company developing a ventilator that would have to be approved by the officials, very quickly.  I would say at least three years at least.

I agree. Its very complex piece of equipment. If it was just a case of 'Sucking' and 'Blowing' then you could use bar girls to do the job.  You might not live very long but you'd die happy. ????

[evadgib]

Response to the Financial Times article on ventilators

(Happy for this to be moved if there's a better place for it)

[RuamRudy]

I read this morning that MedFetUK who describe themselves as the UK's 'only online store 100% dedicated to Medical Fetish, Kink and Roleplay' (a company, I hasten to add, I never knew existed until today, honest!) had been contacted by NHS procurement representatives desperate to get access to their stock of disposable scrubs. Those nice, kinky, people have donated their entire stock to the NHS.

 

On one level, that is a humourously upbeat story of creative thinking and resilience, but at a more serious level, it is a damning indictment of how our country has been trashed by 10 years of the Nasty Party. As has been said by many people, we should not have been applauding the NHS workers 2 nights ago; we should have been screaming our outrage at every single person who supported or supports the Tories. 

 

https://twitter.com/MedFet_UK/status/1243590308878848002

Edited March 28, 2020 by RuamRudy

[jastheace]

one of these from 'the league of gentlemen'?

'The Medusa'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by jastheace
text

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/28/2020 at 1:29 AM, Muzzique said:

I agree. Its very complex piece of equipment. If it was just a case of 'Sucking' and 'Blowing' then you could use bar girls to do the job.  You might not live very long but you'd die happy. ????

Indeed. Has the government recruited 10,000 nurses to operate the new machines, or undertaken an accelerated training program for operators? Even with one nurse for two machines, that one nurse can't work 24/7.

[Mr Smithy]

For those who believe ventilator is a simple bit of kit that anyone could throw together -- 

 

https://www.hamilton-medical.com/en/Solutions.html

 

Anything less complex would not meet the needs of those with ARDS -

 

 

[faraday]

I expect it's about money, doubt the gubmint had time to issue a tender, & do all the negotiations, so most probably went for cheapest.

 

Just how long will it all take....?

 

Should have gone to Draeger or Hamilton - y'know, the companies who have years of experience, dedicated trainers, & long established connections with the NHS.

 

Tried & tested.

 

Instead, they get a completely new design, knocked up in 10 days. 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Smithy]

5 hours ago, faraday said:

Instead, they get a completely new design, knocked up in 10 days. 

Has anyone actually seen the specs this new machine? 

[overherebc]

On 3/29/2020 at 5:38 AM, faraday said:

I expect it's about money, doubt the gubmint had time to issue a tender, & do all the negotiations, so most probably went for cheapest.

 

Just how long will it all take....?

 

Should have gone to Draeger or Hamilton - y'know, the companies who have years of experience, dedicated trainers, & long established connections with the NHS.

 

Tried & tested.

 

Instead, they get a completely new design, knocked up in 10 days. 

 

 

 

 

And doctors have saved lives with a penknife and a plastic tube.

[Mr Smithy]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

And doctors have saved lives with a penknife and a plastic tube.

How many? Is this an everyday occurrence?

[overherebc]

32 minutes ago, Mr Smithy said:

How many? Is this an everyday occurrence?

Google tracheotomy.

Quite a few been done in emergency situations by cutting into the 'wind pipe' and using a tube to get ait into the lungs.

The meaning behind my post is that it doesn't have to be a £20,000 plus custom all singing all dancing ventilator. If models can be made for much less and they do the job then fine. 

 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, overherebc said:

And doctors have saved lives with a penknife and a plastic tube.

And that is relevant how?

[Mr Smithy]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

If models can be made for much less and they do the job then fine. 

What modes of ventilation would you have these cheap ventilators provide? (Hint most vents have at least 5 selectable modes) 

I suggest you refrain from posting about something which you clearly have no knowledge about.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, overherebc said:

Google tracheotomy.

Quite a few been done in emergency situations by cutting into the 'wind pipe' and using a tube to get ait into the lungs.

The meaning behind my post is that it doesn't have to be a £20,000 plus custom all singing all dancing ventilator. If models can be made for much less and they do the job then fine. 

 

What you may not know is that the cost of medical equipment is not high only because of the cost of production of the item, but because of the insurance that has to be paid.

I assure you that nothing on a ventilator is not essential- they ain't a mobile phone that has all sorts of unwanted accessories on it.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/29/2020 at 11:38 AM, faraday said:

I expect it's about money, doubt the gubmint had time to issue a tender, & do all the negotiations, so most probably went for cheapest.

 

Just how long will it all take....?

 

Should have gone to Draeger or Hamilton - y'know, the companies who have years of experience, dedicated trainers, & long established connections with the NHS.

 

Tried & tested.

 

Instead, they get a completely new design, knocked up in 10 days. 

 

 

 

 

A ventilator at its most basic is just a pump to introduce air into the lungs. Where it gets complicated is making a machine that won't actually kill the patient, and training people to operate the machine safely.

It's all far more complicated than lay people can imagine. If it was as easy as people imagine on this forum, they'd have done it already.

[faraday]

9 hours ago, overherebc said:

Google tracheotomy.

Quite a few been done in emergency situations by cutting into the 'wind pipe' and using a tube to get ait into the lungs.

The meaning behind my post is that it doesn't have to be a £20,000 plus custom all singing all dancing ventilator. If models can be made for much less and they do the job then fine. 

 

Perhaps this will explain it better:

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/tracheostomy

 

It's performed to bypass an obstruction in the nasal passages, in order to get air into the lungs. Which is when a Ventilator is used.

 

And, as TBL explains, a Ventilator is much more technical, than a simple air pump

 

[overherebc]

2 hours ago, faraday said:

Perhaps this will explain it better:

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/tracheostomy

 

It's performed to bypass an obstruction in the nasal passages, in order to get air into the lungs. Which is when a Ventilator is used.

 

And, as TBL explains, a Ventilator is much more technical, than a simple air pump

 

Parapac ventilator manufactured by Smiths.

£3000. Approved and works.

[faraday]

4 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Parapac ventilator manufactured by Smiths.

£3000. Approved and works.

This is used for emergency transportation, & not really suitable for long term ICU ventilation.

[tifino]

On 3/26/2020 at 9:06 PM, spider1197 said:

...So I don't see a vacuum cleaner company developing a ventilator that would have to be approved by the officials, very quickly.  I would say at least three years at least.

yes... and only 6 months ago  if it was brought up;

 - all you'd be hearing was "don't hold your breathe!"