My Frustrating Experienc With The New 30 Day Visa Rules-be Forewarned It's A Very Long Post

[vermin on arrival]

This is the first time I’ve posted on Thai visa news although I’ve been a lurker for quite some time. I’d like to clarify my situation before I report my experience. I’ve been coming to Thailand for the past nine years and I use it as my base. I don’t work here and I’m not a visa runner. I work in Taiwan. I spent about 5 months a year in Thailand, 4-5 months a year in Taiwan, maybe 1 month in the states visiting my parents and maybe another month traveling in the region. I’m not old enough for a retirement visa; I’m 42. Just so you know this will be a very long report on the enforcement of the new 30 day visa exempt rules.

When they announced the new visa restrictions in September, I made sure to get a tourist visa. However, the Thai embassy in NYC would only give me a single entry visa as a matter of policy (that’s all they give anyone). In a way, this visa was useless to me because it was only valid for 3 months and I would not be hear for an extended period of time, but I was playing it safe as it would still be valid in the beginning of 2007 when they said they would be enforcing the new rules. I then plunked down the 3800 baht for a multiple re-entry permit (something I will never do again-a complete waste of money for someone in my situation) on it so I would get as much mileage out of the visa and minimize my days in Thailand on the free 30 day entries.

Now here is where my story gets interesting. I arrived in Thailand on March 14th from a trip to the PI after they had started to count the days spent in Thailand on the 30 day visa exempt at the airport. I arrived first on October 4th and spent 8 days. Then I arrived on Oct 31 and spent 9 days. I arrived on November 30th for a 21 day visit. I had two visits on my tourist visa for a total of 21 days, but these were not counted (Jan 11-Jan23 and Feb 19-March 6) as they were on the tourist visa. The visa officer was unsure how many days to give me on the stamp, which was strange. I was talking to him and the visa officer next to him in Thai. The office next to him said that I had only used 38 of the 90 free days so to give me a full stamp. Eventually he did.

On the 17th I left to Honk Kong and returned on the 20th. When I came in at the airport, the immigration office was only going to give me a stamp allowing me to stay until April 3rd even though I had only used 41 of my 90 days. She and the officer next her said that since my 6 months were up that I would have to leave on that day. I began to argue and pushed to get my full 30 days. I had only used 41 days, and it would only take a very cursory look at my passport to see that I wasn’t living or working here and that I was just a frequent visitor. They took me to speak to a supervisor.

When I went to speak to the supervisor, there were about 6 officers there. I pushed my case. I showed them the stamp when I arrived on the 14th and was allowed to stay until April 12th. Why would they only give me to April 3rd when I arrived on the 20th, only 6 days later. They said there was a new rule that at the end of the month period you must leave Thailand regardless if how many days you have spent in the country if you are using the 30 day entry. They showed me the memo in Thai. It meant nothing to me since even though I could speak ok Thai (my vocabulary is not so large) my reading skills are weak. I said that this was not convenient for me and was there anything special they could do for me. They said no, but that all I needed to do was to go to Aranyaprathet. I didn’t need to spend money on a plane ticket out. I will say that I was quite polite to the officers and they were very friendly. Also, my appearance was quite neat and proper. I’m 42 years old and don’t look like a bum or sleazy sexpat (not there is anything wrong with that

I was quite miffed by this new unannounced rule and decide to go to Suan Phlu and try to get this changed or at least some decent explanation. When I arrived in Suan Phlu I first discussed it with a officer at the information desk. They saw that I had only used 41 days and sent me to the counter to get my stamped changed. When I talked to them(as I said before my conversations were in Thai except for a few words in English to make up for some of my deficiencies in vocabulary), they said that there was a new rule that at the end of the 6 months you had to leave whether or not you had used your 90 days. I complained. I said I had done everything by the rules. I only used 41 days. I had gotten a tourist visa because immigration had wanted everyone to get a background check. I wasted 3800 baht on a reentry permit. I don’t work. I’m not a visa runner. It’s very obvious from my passport. On one day they gave me until April 12th and then 6 days later they gave me until April 3rd. They said the 1st officer had made a mistake. I then pointed out that if someone came into Thailand on Oct. 4 and left on Oct. 5 and then came back on April 2nd using the 30 day visa exempt stamp that person would have to leave on April 3rd. They said yes that person would. I said that this wasn’t fair. They agreed. I said I wanted to complain. They sent me to room 205.

When I got there, I repeated the whole story. They said yes I had done nothing wrong and that it wasn’t fair, but I had to leave anyway. They said the best they could do for me was to give me a week extension for 1900 baht. I said that I didn’t want to pay this. They told me to go to Aran. It was only 4 hours away. They said I would have to wait until April 4th to reenter and get my next set of 90 days on my 2nd 6 month period. I told then I didn’t like Cambodia so they suggested that I overstay one day. I said that I was concerned that Aran might have different rules because immigration was decentralized and could they give me a note instructing Aran immigration to let me in. They said they couldn’t because it was a different chain of command. They only have authority in BKK. Aran was in central command. The airport was also a different command (I believe there are 6 different commands in total). I had already known this so I asked if they thought I would have any problem getting in. They said no. They told me that 3 or 4 other people had already complained about this. I asked them how things would be 6 months from now; they said they weren’t sure.

April 3rd comes along and I take the trip to Aran. I decide not to overstay since I know that sometimes there is a problem with this. Manage to find the casino bus by Lumpini to take me straight to the border. It was a little confusing because I haven’t left Thailand by a land route in 3 or 4 years. When I get there, I go up to an officer who is free and ask him about my situation, being very polite. I ask if I can return on the same day. He says no problem as long as I have a forward air ticket out of Thailand. It’s a new rule. LMAO! I was shocked, but not terribly. TIT! I then went to talk to the supervisor. There were two other westerners there with the same problem. They were speaking to him in English. I spoke to him in Thai. I showed him my passport and told him that both Suan Phlu and the airport told me to come and renew my stamp at Aran. I showed him my stamps which clearly show that I’m not a visa runner, didn’t work here and was just a frequent visitor. I told him I followed all the rules. He said that this was a new rule-ANOTHER UNANNOUNCED NEW RULE! He was sympathetic and said that the government didn’t want people crossing back and forth at the land crossing and that I should go to the airport. This was funny. I would have laughed if I weren’t truly disgusted. I now was forced to overstay by immigration. I told him I didn’t want to do this. He kind of gave me a sad look. I turned straight back to BKK. I talked to a Thai sitting next to me on the bus. I was so upset I told him how the new government doesn’t like foreigners anymore. He was surprised as have all other Thais I’ve mentioned this to have been. Most Thais don’t even realize this is happening.

The next day after I got back to BKK, I booked a flight to Singapore on Tiger Air. I also called my travel agent. I told her about how I was turned back at Aran and asked her to find out the new rules. When she got back to me she told me that the people at immigration weren’t sure and that the rules were changing rapidly. They didn’t know how things would be in the future; she asked them to stop doing this as it was losing her business many customers. What a disgrace to run a country this way. I guess the head of immigration is behaving autocratically now that the CNS is in power and changing the rules on his own whims.

When I got to the airport on the 6th, I had to pay a 3 day fine. While paying the fine, I discussed my case with the officers there. An older officer with some rank came to discuss things with me. I talked to him for about 20 minutes. Again the officers were very sympathetic. I told him the rules were not fair now. He agreed. As all the officers I had already talked to before had said, he had told me these new rules were a headache for them. He complained that the manual counting of days on a rolling basis at the airport without a proper computer program was a problem. We agreed that it wasn’t an intelligent policy. He said that the person who is making the rules now has never had to take care of an immigration office and deal with people coming and going from the kingdom. He had to send an evaluation report every month to his superiors and every time he complained about the new rules. He also talked about the uneven enforcement of the rules. He asked me whether the days on a tourist visa and the 30 day visa exempt days be counted together. I said no. He said that some officers do and some don’t depending on where you are. I know that the immigration policy is to be decentralized and allow officer discretion, but THIS IS LUDICROUS. TIT.

When I came back on the 9th, I had a copy of my reservation at the end of the month, but was not asked for it. I told the officer I was starting my second period of 6 months and showed her the relevant stamps. She very quickly gave me a new set of 30 days without asking to see a forwarding ticket so this rule is not being enforced at the airport. I’m now back in Thailand.

Many people on this board always say that the rules are the rules, and the only people who will have problems here are the bad ones. This is rubbish. I followed the rules and still was forced to leave. They just change the rules like we change our shirts. Right now they are changing the rules at the drop of a hat. Maybe they are posting them on the Thai Immigration website or maybe you need to call the different posts or commands to find them out, but immigration is making no effort to make them freely available on this website or in any papers. The officers themselves are not sure what is happening and in many cases disagree with them, but have to follow them. It seems clear that this is done on purpose by the person in charge to make foreigners so frustrated that they leave, or that the person in charge is a petty dictator or incompetent and does things by the seat of his pants.

I see some posters saying that the new rules must be done logically and that the people with problems are ones who are up to now good. However, with a cursory look at my passport, it is easy to see that this is not the case. Yet, the officers don’t have the discretion to make an exception. Thus, the logic appears to be that the person in charge wants foreigners here out. Maybe you are here on a non-immigrant, retirement or work visa, and your rules will be changed without notice and you will be screwed or have to jump through hoops to stay as well. I think things here will get worse before they get better. Periodically in Thai history they have accepted foreigners and then expelled them. It appears that we are at a stage when some diehard anti-foreigners are in charge now, and attempting this.

In the past, being polite and neat in presentation when dealing with immigration would help one. The officers could use their discretion and decide who to be tough with and who to treat well. Although all the officers were polite and sympathetic to my case, they had nothing they could do even though they agreed with me (or at least said they did). This approach seems to no longer work.

This whole experience was very frustrating. I hope that sometime in the near future there will be some consistency and coherence in the immigration rules. Unfortunately, I think that things will only get worse.

Edited April 10, 2007 by vermin on arrival

[cclub75]

Bravo for your very detailed and clear report.

It's never too long !

I should add : it's very enlightning.

And I do share your conclusions : even with the TIT factor, the situation shows clearly that some people in charge do whatever they can to create uncertainty, in order to reduce the number of "permanent" or semi permanent foreigners in Thailand.

This has to be a deliberate strategy. I can not believe that such a mess is only the result of the TIT factor.

[kiakaha]

Get a 1 year multi entry Non Immigrant B. Enough said.

[vermin on arrival]

Thanks CClub. I really tried to include everything relevant to the topic in this post. I believe that it is really important for everyone on the forums to understand the situation we are now in in Thailand. Too often I read posts here and see such divisivenes with people trying to put down others who are in different situtions here, but we need to realize that in the end we are all in the same boat here; we are all foreigners and in some ways fundamentally outsiders no matter how much we try to conform to the norms here.

I've been spending much time in the past 9 years in my stays in Thailand, but now unfortunately it seems that I'm going to have to start rethinking my living situation as a "semi-permament" resident in Thailand.

Kiakaha,

How do I qualify for this non-immigrant B? As far as I know they've been cracking down on these as well.

Edited April 10, 2007 by vermin on arrival

[lopburi3]

1. Your first 30 day entry was Oct 4 so your six month period ended 3 April. Last entry prior to that day only gets the number of days remaining in that six month period. This seems to be the normal way immigration is using the six month rule. Unfortunately not many people had any idea that this would be the case prior to it happening.

2. Ticket out of the country has always been a requirement for 30 day entry, just as 10,000 baht is required. Previously they have seldom been checked but starting this month the tickets are become a normal requirement at some border crossings.

3. Do not understand how you obtained a 3,800 baht re entry permit for a visa. These are issued by immigration, not Consulates, for permitted to stay stamps, prior to exit, after you are in Thailand and are only valid for the period of the stay stamp (60 days for a tourist visa entry).

The exact rules for 30 day stay have not been clearly explained and highly advise anyone that can to use tourist visas to avoid any possible problems this might cause.

[vermin on arrival]

1. Your first 30 day entry was Oct 4 so your six month period ended 3 April. Last entry prior to that day only gets the number of days remaining in that six month period. This seems to be the normal way immigration is using the six month rule. Unfortunately not many people had any idea that this would be the case prior to it happening.

2. Ticket out of the country has always been a requirement for 30 day entry, just as 10,000 baht is required. Previously they have seldom been checked but starting this month the tickets are become a normal requirement at some border crossings.

3. Do not understand how you obtained a 3,800 baht re entry permit for a visa. These are issued by immigration, not Consulates, for permitted to stay stamps, prior to exit, after you are in Thailand and are only valid for the period of the stay stamp (60 days for a tourist visa entry).

The exact rules for 30 day stay have not been clearly explained and highly advise anyone that can to use tourist visas to avoid any possible problems this might cause.

I understand your first point now Lopburi, but it was not clearly explained prior to its implementation.

As to your 2nd point, yes I knew that these rules were on the books, but they were never enforced. This was the first time in around 50-100 trips in and out of thailand over 9 years when something like this was requested of me.

Point 3-The 3800 baht for the multiple re-entryrentry permit was paid after my entry to the kingdom on my ftourist visa in January.

To have to use a tourist visa on every trip is extemely difficult and costly. I've come 6 times in the last 6 months, four on the free 30 days and 2 on my tourist visa. At times I only come for as few as 4 days. Your advice makes sense, but as the officer at the airport said to me when I paid my overstay, many embassies want you to get this in your country of origin(although I hear that penang is still good). Manila, Vientiane, Phnom Penh, and Yangoon are all no good. This would be an extravagant cost for a 4 day stay!

[Prakanong]

OP - thank you for the comprehensive and clear report.

As I have moved to singapore I was going to do lots of short trips unlke my recent 3 to 5 months a year visits over the last few years.

Along with business trips I can see me getting caught up like you and a tourist visa is th way i should go but <deleted> to that - plenty of other places to go withouth the hassle in the region.

I will still visit Thailand as I always enjoy the lce and have two trips coming up but now due to hassle, plus some of my own wanting to see other places, its not "Thailand to the exclusion of everywhere else" for me as in the past.

[jeebusjones]

I believe that it is really important for everyone on the forums to understand the situation we are now in in Thailand. Too often I read posts here and see such divisivenes with people trying to put down others who are in different situtions here, but we need to realize that in the end we are all in the same boat here; we are all foreigners and in some ways fundamentally outsiders no matter how much we try to conform to the norms here.

Very true. The rules are changing rapidly and at the end of the day we're all foreigners. No room for high horses here.

[naka]

I believe that it is really important for everyone on the forums to understand the situation we are now in in Thailand. Too often I read posts here and see such divisivenes with people trying to put down others who are in different situtions here, but we need to realize that in the end we are all in the same boat here; we are all foreigners and in some ways fundamentally outsiders no matter how much we try to conform to the norms here.

Very true. The rules are changing rapidly and at the end of the day we're all foreigners. No room for high horses here.

This must be one of the most overused and condescending statements used in T.V.

Someone else suggesting we just bend over and take it.

Naka

Edited April 10, 2007 by naka

[Krub]

1. Your first 30 day entry was Oct 4 so your six month period ended 3 April. Last entry prior to that day only gets the number of days remaining in that six month period. This seems to be the normal way immigration is using the six month rule. Unfortunately not many people had any idea that this would be the case prior to it happening.

The exact rules for 30 day stay have not been clearly explained and highly advise anyone that can to use tourist visas to avoid any possible problems this might cause.

It has been widely reported on this forum that some border points and some officers at airports will look at the 6 months prior to entry and count the days making it a roling 6 months.

It also seems stupid for somebody in the OP's case who only spends a few days each visit who happens to visit at the end/start of his 6 months to have to break his trip even though he does not have 90 days in ANY 6 months roling/fixed or otherwise.

Applying for a TV visa for each 3-4 days trip is not what was intended with the 30 days visa free rule whcih the OP is I think using properly but is not implemented in a workable way.

A Non-Im B might be a solution but does not fit his very short numerous tourist trips to the Kingdom.

Then again not many in his situation so the bulk of the tourists are not affected and with new rules there are always some who fall through the holes

Edited April 10, 2007 by Krub

[Crossy]

Great report Vermin

Like most others I was surprised at the way the 6 month period is being counted, but I suppose it's the easiest way when no computer is involved and it does, sort of line up with the wording of the rule.

I had an interesting arrival a week back, see my topic 'arrived with an expired visa' http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=113966&hl= where I had difficulty and I had NO visa exemption stamps, EVER

Edited April 10, 2007 by Crossy

[simcity]

Vermin, myself I was not able to get more of 3*3 month visa, it was a bit difficult as I was going in and out often!

I decide to put it on paper and send it to a friendly consulate, I got a understanding approach and from this time, this consulate issue me a one year multiple O visa, it make my life more simple.

If you want to email this person, private message me for his contact.

[lopburi3]

Vientiane and Savannakhet are not a problem to obtain a tourist visa anymore. Even Phenom Penh has been issuing (but I would only use in emergency). Rangoon and Manila still appear to put up as many obstacles as they can think of.

[jeebusjones]

I believe that it is really important for everyone on the forums to understand the situation we are now in in Thailand. Too often I read posts here and see such divisivenes with people trying to put down others who are in different situtions here, but we need to realize that in the end we are all in the same boat here; we are all foreigners and in some ways fundamentally outsiders no matter how much we try to conform to the norms here.

Very true. The rules are changing rapidly and at the end of the day we're all foreigners. No room for high horses here.

This must be one of the most overused and condescending statements used in T.V.

Someone else suggesting we just bend over and take it.

Naka

That's not what I was saying at all. There are a huge number of foreigners living in Thailand, and it's ridiculous that we are treated in such a condescending, completely careless way. We should really do something about it.

Last week, an estimated 500,000 people marched in protest of unfair immigrations laws in the US. These people were protesting to make it easier for "illegal aliens" to gain residency. They were protesting new government regulations that would make it more difficult for "illegal aliens" to become permanent residents. And the crazy part is, in the US hundreds of thousands of "illegal aliens" can march in protest, and the rules will actually change in their favor.

( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11442705/ )

What would happen if the farangs in Thailand did something similar? I think it's about time...

Edited April 10, 2007 by jeebusjones

[LivinLOS]

Very good clear report..

And sadly the worst case of screwed over I have read yet..

[PhilHarries]

I'm in a similar situation to the OP in that I work in the region, not Thailand, and like to have many short breaks back there. I wasn't at first bothered by the 90 in 180 rule because even with the number of visits I'd never get near the 90 limit. But now it appears I have to keep in mind the timing of visits with respect to my first vise exempt after Oct 1st. OK it can be easily solved by getting a tourist visa here in KL but that's hassle/time off work I could do without but if that's what I have to do so be it.

But my question is, and it may have been asked before on other threads (if so I apologise), is the slate wiped clean at the six month mark?

Taking the OP's start date. I arrive Thailand 4th Oct and leave on the 24th having stayed 21 days. I next arrive on 1st Jan and stay 60 days until the 1st Mar having done one visa run. Now I have an accumulated total of 81 days. I then return again on 29th March but can only stay until 3rd Apr, 6 days. So I leave on 3rd April and return on the 4th and get a 30 day visa exempt stamp allowing me to stay until 3rd of May then do another visa run for 30 taking me to 2nd Jun. However on the 28th April I exceed the 90 in 180 day rule and by the time I leave on 2nd Jun I have stayed 125 days in 180.

I may be out a day or two as it depends on whether you count 6 months or 180 days but the principle is the same (I started developement of a spreadsheet to calculate whether any proposed visit is OK by the rules but it's on hold until the rules are defined).

btw although it would be no problem to get a visa now in KL, in a few months I'll be working out of central Viet Nam and was hoping to do all R&R trips using PB Air Da Nang to Bangkok avoiding having to go to Ha Noi for a visa particularly if I continue doing short term visits.

[vermin on arrival]

Livin in LOS,

LOL! I can laugh about it now that I'm back in the country, but I was cetainly quite upset when this happend. I needed to wait a while before posting or I would have said some things I would have regretted about this country and its governence.

Phil Harries,

My understanding is that the slate is wiped clean for the 2nd group of 6 months. It seems to be more of a problem for the immigration officer who has to calculate everything differently for each individual entering the kingdom depeninding on his 1st date of entry.

Naka,

Certainly, I'm not suggesting we bend over and take it, and I'm suprised that you took it that way. I'm in fact suggesting the opposite. I went and on 4 different occasions discussed the matter with 19 different immigration officers(8 when I was at the airport and given the stamp until the 3rd in two different discussions, 6 at Suan Phlu in 3 discussions, 2 at Aran in two discussions and 3 in the last discussion when I paid my overstay) all to no avail.

Lopburi,

It is good to know that a couple of the regional embassies like Vientiane are now good to get tourist visas again.

Simcity,

I will be in touch about the non-immigrant O. Thanks

[visarunner]

Here is a update summary.

1. You are permitted up to 90 days on visa exemption entries in a six month period.

2. The six months starts from your first entry after Oct 1st last year.

3. The period is fixed it does NOT roll.

4. If you try to enter within 30 days of the end of your 6 months you may only be permitted to stay until the end of the period NO MATTER HOW FEW OF YOUR 90 DAYS YOU'VE USED.

5. Once your first 6 months is over a new period starts and you will be able to do a border run and return with a full 30 day stamp,which is NOT a Tourist Visa as many think .

6. Example for six month period : 1.10.06 to 31.3.07 , re-enter with visa exempt on 1.4.07 , or 28.10.06 to 27.4.07, re-enter with visa exempt on 28.4.07 .

If you are not sure about the days you have spend already in the country please pm and give following specific and complete information.

Example:

1. Entry @ Airport 11.10.06 , exit @ Ban Laem 9.11.06, 30days, visa exempt

2. Entry @ Ban Laem 9.11.06, exit@ Mukdahan 8.12.06, 30 days, visa exempt

Enter @ Mukdahan 9.12.06 , exit @ Ban Laem 6.2.07 , 60days, Tourist Visa

extent in Thailand at any Immigration Office for 30days , THB 1,900.-, extension until 7.3.07 .

3.Entry @ Ban Laem 7.3.07 ,permission to stay until 5.4.07 , 30 days , visa exempt

Immigration will allow this person back into the Country with a 30day visa exempt stamp on 11.4.07.

This person has now two possibilies .

A: Get another Extension (THB 1,900.-) for 7 days at the Immigration and re-enter Thailand on the 11.4.07 with a 30day visa exempt stamp to start a new SIX-MONTH period with 3x30days border runs .

B: Apply on/before the 5.4.07 for a new Tourist Visa.

It is recommended that you apply for the extension at the Immigration Office.

A Tourist Visa will be extended for 30days.

Extension of a Visa exempt stamp and any Non Immigrant Visa will be granted for 7 days only

You can convert the 30day visa exempt stamp to a Non-Immigrant Visa by going to the Immigration Department with the proper documents and 21 day stay remaining, meaning you have up to 9 days time after your entry. Application fee THB 2,000.- .

Please note that your Passport need to be valid for at least another 6 month for any Visa application.

Further info on MFA webpage : http://www.mfa.go.th/web/12.php

All Embassies/Consulates in SEA will issue only Single Entry Tourist Visas.

UPDATE , Travellers who arrive without a Visa

are required to show a outbound Air Ticket

proving that they will depart within 30days .

THE ALIENS ENTERING KINGDOM WITH NO VISA MUST PRESENT TICKET OR TRAVEL DOCUMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN PAID ALREADY OR CONFIRMED TO EXIT THE KINGDOM

AND MUST NOT EXCEED 30DAY UPON THE DATE OF ENTRANCE TO THE KINGDOM.

[Sunny Valentine]

Bravo for your very detailed and clear report.

And I do share your conclusions : even with the TIT factor, the situation shows clearly that some people in charge do whatever they can to create uncertainty, in order to reduce the number of "permanent" or semi permanent foreigners in Thailand.

This has to be a deliberate strategy. I can not believe that such a mess is only the result of the TIT factor.

I dare to disagree here. The current state of this government is such that they mess up everything they do, sometimes I concede with best intentions. They are just unable to do anything right. A cunning plan like the one you are suggesting would mean there is a mastermind behind it. Where in the world is he?

Sunny

[vermin on arrival]

Visa Runner,

Good synopsis. However, I was allowed back in at the airport without a forward plane ticket being presented or requested. However, that may change in the near future, and it would make sense to at least have a reservation to show them there as I did. I would expect at the land crossings that the ticket would be a neccesity.

Also, my home embassy in NYC would only issue a single entry tourist visa as well. Talk about a waste of time going there.

Sunny,

I think if there were someone with a masterplan it would be the head of immigration who has been handing down all of theses rules or decidng to enforce all of the old ones. However, incompetence may be a better explanation than malfeasance.

[Erwin1011]

A MASTER mind in the Thai government ? give it a break, they will have trouble finding somebody with a working mind at all.

[cclub75]

I dare to disagree here. The current state of this government is such that they mess up everything they do, sometimes I concede with best intentions. They are just unable to do anything right. A cunning plan like the one you are suggesting would mean there is a mastermind behind it. Where in the world is he?

You mean... "them" ?

They are in charge.

Before september Coup, they were in charge too.

But now they feel fully backed by the state apparatus.

It's basically : the nationalist/conservator/elit core of Thailand.

You need to connect all the dots.

One example : new rules for visas. Okay. And then 6 month after, they start to apply the rule (old) about the outbound ticket. Why to take the risk to create even more mess ? There is a will. A guy took this decision.

Actually, I see a lot of doigté and finesse in the process.

The idea, is to proceed slowly, step by step. Basically, you can't say, even if you are an arrogant thai politician : "go f...k yourself. We have decided that we have reached the limit regarding the number of foreigners who live in Thailand".

And you have to save some strategic interests, AKA the real and normal tourists (good for business).

You need to be delusive and elusive. And because you know that your own troops are, for the most part, totally disorientated and low level, you know that your decisions will create even more uncertainty, uncertainty that is a great tactical advantage.

Just think about what could be the situation in let's say 2 years : well... target reached !

Slowly but surely, foreigners will have digest the new regulations... Without too much fuss.

I really believe this is not TIT. The thai authorities are using the TIT factor, as a diversion, to help to achieve their goals.

Remember the word of Miss Tarisa, BOT chief : Jan. 16 (Bloomberg) -- The Bank of Thailand deliberately created "uncertainty'' in the foreign exchange market to drive out speculators from Japan and the U.S. when it imposed curbs on investment, Governor Tarisa Watanagase said.

And from my point of view, the master plan is much broader. Once again, connect the dots.

-military took power

-amendement of Foreign Business Act

-censorship

-a new constitution

I think it's clear. It's all about control.

As for the visas situation... They did the investment visa, the retirement visa, the visa exemption. Once again a constant will...

I won't surprised if the next step was... the tourist visas. The next "rule" could be : no more back to back tourist visas. The process will be then... achieved.

Edited April 10, 2007 by Pattaya_Fox

[jeebusjones]

^^^ A horrifyingly lucid vision of the future...

Edited April 10, 2007 by jeebusjones

[OneeyedJohn]

Apart from not understanding doigté I have to agree you have summarised the situation nicely

It is a reality we all are going to have to stomach one way or the other.

[PeaceBlondie]

If there is any method to their madness, perhaps it is this: no more back to back visa-exempt stamps. No more perpetual pretend tourists. The choice is 30 day stamp on entry (for touristic use), or a visa. However, it is not as easy to get a visa, as some people think it is.

[muckypups]

I dare to disagree here. The current state of this government is such that they mess up everything they do, sometimes I concede with best intentions. They are just unable to do anything right. A cunning plan like the one you are suggesting would mean there is a mastermind behind it. Where in the world is he?

Sunny

China I think..?

[thaihome]

As the OP said he goes back to US at least once every year, he should get a 1 year multi entry B at one of the more accommodating honorary consulates in the US each trip.

Would solve all his problems.

TH

[vermin on arrival]

CClub, what you say makes a lot of sense. It also feels that way to me. Since 2000 there has been a steady clamp down and change in rules here against foreigners, slowly but surely. Under Thaksin, the government was nationalist, but with his sale of Shin to Temasak his nationalism was shown to be a self-serving sham. Now the ultra-nationalists are in power. It doesn't really seem like it is going to stop. I think it will only get worse as time goes on.

[Cyberstar]

As the OP said he goes back to US at least once every year, he should get a 1 year multi entry B at one of the more accommodating honorary consulates in the US each trip.

Would solve all his problems.

TH

Either you know OP's situation much better than the rest of us - or you don't have the slightest clue on the requirements for a non-imm B visa.

[Meerkat]

[whisper] There's still always the Thailand Elite visa.[/whisper]