10 minutes ago, riclag said:

Ok ! I'm curious since the POTUS has said the WHO is a China centric and knowing how the Chinese and WHO consulted each other,who in your opinion should be held responsible? The panel,the director both or the Chinese Gov.

I really am so over the partisan arguments about it, that I really do not care.

It is up to the US voters to make up their own minds.

POTUS can say what he likes, people are dead and dying and his actions before and after are up for scrutiny by the voters.

Neither the US administration will confront China one way or another, and POTUS in his usual manner will throw his toys about in his sandpit, and the nought will change.

Just give me an instance when POTUS took responsiblity of anything,without apportioning blame anywhere else..

Of course China was notifying WHO, but were they being accurate and truthful? WE will never know

People are dead

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 20206 yr by RJRS1301

5 hours ago, candide said:

This was about the WHO. Which information did they withold? They published all the information they received on a daily basis.

The WHO's job is to find the truth about what happens in the world and to provide that information and its own assessments to the world's members in a timely fashion so that countries can protect themselves.

 

If the WHO was simply parroting what the Chinese CCP told them, then WHO is equally guilty of withholding and covering up. It matters not whether the WHO had or didn't have whichever piece of information at whatever point in time. As we now painfully know, almost every important piece of information was withheld to the last possible minute. Thus WHO failed badly.

 

Can you imagine some country getting nuked without warning and the International Atomic Energy Commission saying, "Soory, they didn't tell us."

Edited April 10, 20206 yr by rabas

3 minutes ago, rabas said:

The WHO's job is to find the truth about what happens in the world and to provide that information and its own assessments to the world's members in a timely fashion so that countries can protect themselves.

 

If the WHO was simply parroting what the Chinese CCP told them, then WHO is equally guilty of withholding and covering up. It matters not whether the WHO had or didn't have whichever piece of information at whatever point in time. As we now know, almost every important piece of information was withheld to the last possible minute. Thus WHO failed badly.

 

Can you imagine some country getting nuked without warning and the International Atomic Energy Commission saying, "Soory, they didn't tell us". 

WHO can only report on what information they are given, they cannot send in their own researchers to do an independent apprasal without consent of that sovereign country

1 minute ago, RJRS1301 said:

WHO can only report on what information they are given, they cannot send in their own researchers to do an independent apprasal without consent of that sovereign country

Then there is no need for them, just use email.

6 minutes ago, rabas said:

The WHO's job is to find the truth about what happens in the world and to provide that information and its own assessments to the world's members in a timely fashion so that countries can protect themselves.

 

If the WHO was simply parroting what the Chinese CCP told them, then WHO is equally guilty of withholding and covering up. It matters not whether the WHO had or didn't have whichever piece of information at whatever point in time. As we now know, almost every important piece of information was withheld to the last possible minute. Thus WHO failed badly.

 

Can you imagine some country getting nuked without warning and the International Atomic Energy Commission saying, "Soory, they didn't tell us."

False equivalence. The WHO is not tasked with ensuring that a treaty, such anti-nuclear proliferation treaty is respected or not. As I wrote before, they have no investigation power.

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

Then there is no need for them, just use email.

You seem to not fully understand either role, the make-up or the structure of WHO.

You are looking for simple responses to complex matters.

 

Governments have a responsibility for the health of their peoples which can be fulfilled only by the provision of adequate health and social measures. 

 

Edited April 10, 20206 yr by RJRS1301

8 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

I really am so over the partisan arguments about it, that I really do not care.

It is up to the US voters to make up their own minds.

POTUS can say what he likes, people are dead and dying and his actions before and after are up for scrutiny by the voters.

Neither the US administration will confront China one way or another, and POTUS in his usual manner will throw his toys about in his sandpit, and the nought will change.

Just give me an instance when POTUS took responsiblity of anything,without apportioning blame anywhere else..

Of course China was notifying WHO, but were they being accurate and truthful? WE will never know

People are dead

 

 

 

 

I'm certainly disgusted with the partisan arguments to! I'm sitting here in my beautiful home in Sakon Nakhon,wondering and worrying about the 5 W's.

I do want to see a investigation especially  after the  therapeutics drugs, antibody tests and vaccines come out, of course that's all on contingent that I survive this 

WHO serves no purpose, if they cannot accurately assess data, and warn nations of the coming danger.  If China bought and paid for them—fine.  No one else has to pay, or consult with them.

8 minutes ago, riclag said:

I'm certainly disgusted with the partisan arguments to! I'm sitting here in my beautiful home in Sakon Nakhon,wondering and worrying about the 5 W's.

I do want to see a investigation especially  after the  therapeutics drugs, antibody tests and vaccines come out, of course that's all on contingent that I survive this 

Right, such as why some countries did not use the test made available quite early by the WHO, for example (I'll be honest, it's not only Trump)

Just now, Isaan sailor said:

WHO serves no purpose, if they cannot accurately assess data, and warn nations of the coming danger.  If China bought and paid for them—fine.  No one else has to pay, or consult with them.

PUt s====t in, get s==t out, without correct information assessments are flawed from the start, and since WHO has no investagitive powers under their structure, it is reliant on member nations being truthful.

Where is your proof CHINA paid?

 

 

13 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

You seem to not fully understand either role, the make-up or the structure of WHO.

You are looking for simple responses to complex matters.

 

Governments have a responsibility for the health of their peoples which can be fulfilled only by the provision of adequate health and social measures.

Sorry I worked for the UN a couple of times in my long and sinuous career.

6 minutes ago, rabas said:

Sorry I worked for the UN a couple of times in my long and sinuous career.

So you should understand the structure , role, and powers of WHO and to whom they are responsible 

SO you will be aware they cannot investigate sovereign member nations, that is not their function.

WHO works worldwide to promote health, keep the world safe, and serve the vulnerable.

Their goal is to ensure that a billion more people have universal health coverage, to protect a billion more people from health emergencies, and provide a further billion people with better health and well-being.

 

Edited April 10, 20206 yr by RJRS1301

A post in which the quoted content had been altered has been removed as well as the replies:

 

Forum Netiquette
 

2. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording. Such posts will be deleted and the user warned.

 

A post containing a link as well as some content from Bangkok Post has been removed:

 

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

 

A post containing content that was copy and pasted from some site has been removed. 

35 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

PUt s====t in, get s==t out, without correct information assessments are flawed from the start, and since WHO has no investagitive powers under their structure, it is reliant on member nations being truthful.

Where is your proof CHINA paid?

 

 

There is not one whit, ????

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

So you should understand the structure , role, and powers of WHO and to whom they are responsible 

SO you will be aware they cannot investigate sovereign member nations, that is not their function.

WHO works worldwide to promote health, keep the world safe, and serve the vulnerable.

Their goal is to ensure that a billion more people have universal health coverage, to protect a billion more people from health emergencies, and provide a further billion people with better health and well-being.

You should provide a link to your quotation. https://www.who.int/about/what-we-do Anyway, that's just a mission statement. Here is something from real experience.

 

When the UN works with countries, the client state does not pay the UN to implement programs or services. They are funded by the UN, which is responsible for the money and program outcome. Thus the UN is not beholden to the client state and there is no requirement to believe the client state nor accept anything it says as truth.

 

In fact the opposite is true. Client states often deceive the UN about conditions and program outcomes  to get more money and programs.  Because of this, an essential part of UN work is to assess and report what is really happening on the ground back to those funding the work. This is done through debriefing and writing lots of reports. These assessments must be accurate, which is why they employ experts.

 

The idea the UN mindlessly echoes what a client state wants them to do or say is ridiculous.

5 hours ago, rabas said:

You should provide a link to your quotation. https://www.who.int/about/what-we-do Anyway, that's just a mission statement. Here is something from real experience.

 

When the UN works with countries, the client state does not pay the UN to implement programs or services. They are funded by the UN, which is responsible for the money and program outcome. Thus the UN is not beholden to the client state and there is no requirement to believe the client state nor accept anything it says as truth.

 

In fact the opposite is true. Client states often deceive the UN about conditions and program outcomes  to get more money and programs.  Because of this, an essential part of UN work is to assess and report what is really happening on the ground back to those funding the work. This is done through debriefing and writing lots of reports. These assessments must be accurate, which is why they employ experts.

 

The idea the UN mindlessly echoes what a client state wants them to do or say is ridiculous.

So by own admission if China gave false information to WHO why is WHO responsible for that?

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

So by own admission if China gave false information to WHO why is WHO responsible for that?

Exactly. WHO failed because they followed China instead of doing their job. Precisely what the president said.

 

Edited April 11, 20206 yr by rabas

Trump should do what he said and stop their funding. 

34 minutes ago, rabas said:

Exactly. WHO failed because they followed China instead of doing their job. Precisely what the president said.

 

No that is not what he said.

If China give incorrect data WHO can only interrogate that data. 

They cannot send in their own demographers, epidemiologists, virologists and researchers they work with that data. It does not make it "China centric" . 

It may come to light that China misled WHO, entirely different from the accusation levelled.

 

Edited April 11, 20206 yr by RJRS1301

28 minutes ago, rabas said:

Exactly. WHO failed because they followed China instead of doing their job. Precisely what the president said.

 

Also, Taiwan reported the risk of outbreak to WHO in December. But, they ignored it. It seems like that they chose what information they wanted to listen.

If WHO don't have right to do the investigation with the lack of enough information to evaluate the situation at the time, why did they make any suggestion or recommendation to the whole world? Also, they blamed some countries to impose the travel ban for China at the early stage.

Now, Tedros accused Taiwan of racism.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-who/taiwan-condemns-groundless-accusations-it-attacked-who-chief-idUSKCN21R04R

How incompetent he is.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Chickenegg said:

Also, Taiwan reported the risk of outbreak to WHO in December. But, they ignored it. It seems like that they chose what information they wanted to listen.

If WHO don't have right to do the investigation with the lack of enough information to evaluate the situation at the time, why did they make any suggestion or recommendation to the whole world? Also, they blamed some countries to impose the travel ban for China at the early stage.

Now, Tedros accused Taiwan of racism.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-who/taiwan-condemns-groundless-accusations-it-attacked-who-chief-idUSKCN21R04R

How incompetent he is.

 

 

It’s a geo-political issue and cross-straits bickering. As to the travel restriction, you should read the whole travel recommendation and not try to take matters out of context. 

2 hours ago, rabas said:

Exactly. WHO failed because they followed China instead of doing their job. Precisely what the president said.

 

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

Please explain what alternative source of information on the impact of the virus in China the WHO should have relied on?

 

Let’s keep in mind here, the US had an intelligence officer in China whose specific job was to report health threats in China to Washington, or at least the US did have until Trump’s administration cancelled the post.

 

The US was informed of the threat on exactly the same day as was South Korea, the response of each government stands in stark contrast.

 

So Trump does what he always does, blames others for his own miserable failure.

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

Please explain what alternative source of information on the impact of the virus in China the WHO should have relied on?

 

Let’s keep in mind here, the US had an intelligence officer in China whose specific job was to report health threats in China to Washington, or at least the US did have until Trump’s administration cancelled the post.

 

The US was informed of the threat on exactly the same day as was South Korea, the response of each government stands in stark contrast.

 

So Trump does what he always does, blames others for his own miserable failure.

 

You're probably talking about this guy:

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/23/21190713/coronavirus-trump-china-cdc-embed-quick

Troll post and reply removed

44 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The US was informed of the threat on exactly the same day as was South Korea, the response of each government stands in stark contrast.

 

"The news eventually filtered its way through to President Donald Trump's Daily Brief in early January, the ABC reported.

 

Donald Trump may not have been expecting this, but a lot of other people in the government were — they just couldn't get him to do anything about it," one official told the Post last month. "The system was blinking red."

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12323882

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

"The news eventually filtered its way through to President Donald Trump's Daily Brief in early January, the ABC reported.

 

Donald Trump may not have been expecting this, but a lot of other people in the government were — they just couldn't get him to do anything about it," one official told the Post last month. "The system was blinking red."

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12323882

Later, pressed on whether he agreed with health officials' view that coronavirus will inevitably spread in the U.S., he said: "I don't think it's inevitable. It probably will. It possibly will. It could be at a very small level, or it could be at a larger level. Whatever happens, we're totally prepared."

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/fact-checking-trump-s-comments-coronavirus-n1143856

5 hours ago, rabas said:

Exactly. WHO failed because they followed China instead of doing their job. Precisely what the president said.

 

Extract from the WHO report after their on the ground investigation and analysis in China, published 28/02/20; seems accurate to me.

 

Much of the global community is not yet ready, in mindset and materially, to implement the measures that have been employed to contain COVID-19 in China. These are the only measures that are currently proven to interrupt or minimize transmission chains in humans. Fundamental to these measures is extremely proactive surveillance to immediately detect cases, very rapid diagnosis and immediate case isolation, rigorous tracking and quarantine of close contacts, and an exceptionally high degree of population understanding and acceptance of these measures.

 

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

Edited April 11, 20206 yr by simple1

20 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Extract from the WHO report after their on the ground investigation and analysis in China, published 28/02/20; seems accurate to me.

China didn't "blow it". trump did: In Trump's marathon briefings, the answers and the message were often contradictory……..

 

President Trump left little room for doubt. "We're going to put a hold on money spent to the WHO," he said, referring to the World Health Organization. "We're going to put a very powerful hold on it."

But when he was asked a bit later whether it was the right time to delay money for the health agency in the middle of a pandemic, he denied that he said he would. "I'm not saying that I'm going to do it," he said during his news briefing Tuesday. "But we're going to look at it."

"You did say you were going to do it," a reporter pointed out.

"No, I didn't," he said. "I said we're going to look at it."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12324010 

 

Trump does not need adversaries to dispute his statements — he does that all by himself. In the course of his daily briefings on the Coronavirus pandemic, the president has routinely contradicted himself without ever acknowledging that he does so, and this has is to a great extent the reason why the US was slow to react...............

 

......along with the fact that his shifting assessments of the seriousness of the virus over recent months have been well documented. Initially, he likened it to an ordinary flu that would "miraculously" go away, then he later called it "the worst thing that the country has probably ever seen" and declared "war" against the virus. Then he aimed to reopen the country by Easter, before retreating and declaring "hard days" ahead.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12324010 

 

 

 

On 4/10/2020 at 11:16 AM, candide said:

This was about the WHO. Which information did they withold? They published all the information they received on a daily basis.

Sure, and also said that there was no human to human transmission risk in late January. 

4 minutes ago, Chiphigh said:

Sure, and also said that there was no human to human transmission risk in late January. 

That is not what they said. Please show the quote in full.