Europe could fall, Italy warns as divided EU seeks coronavirus rescue deal

[Tagged]

7 hours ago, ukrules said:

The fall of the EU, I've heard this said before, recently.....

 

It will happen, it's just a matter of when. This ongoing crisis will accelerate the inevitable.

And you know what happens next when Europe falling in peaces from inside? Then next solution is war! Only by a new war, you can unite the people, either it will be Europe against someone else, or country against country! Peace is not stronger than the next big recession and a humanitary crisis as immigration and a virus on top of it. 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Tagged

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, Tagged said:

And you know what happens next when Europe falling in peaces from inside? Then next solution is war! Only by a new war, you can unite the people, either it will be Europe against someone else, or country against country! Peace is not stronger than the next big recession and a humaitary crisis as immigration and a virus on top of it. 

EU (under German rule) Vs UK I'm thinking, that's how our past two wars went.

Edited April 10, 2020 by BritManToo

[Sundown]

When Italy will go to vote (sooner or later, it will happen) the right party will win and Salvini will become prime minister. In that right moment Italy will start procedures to get out of EU, this is 100% happening. 

[sawadee1947]

This story is outdated. 

EU agreed to a set up a master plan by ESM. 

So it must be dissapointing to all Brexeteers and other dumb people. ????

[dimitriv]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Oh yeah, and they can't even agree on a rescue package for COVID-19. Compare that to the UK who were able to act quickly and decisively without a second thought to what the EU thinks about it.

 

Many EU countries made rescue packages, they didn't need the EU for that. Most did so even before the UK realized there was something like a virus. The UK could have done the same, even while being in the EU. The only EU problem is that some countries think that the EU should have a financial solution for this crisis. 

 

 

 

[dimitriv]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

What support? We were a net contributor, meaning we were supporting them not the other way around.

 

quote "In 2018 the UK made an estimated gross contribution (after the rebate) of £13.2 billion. The UK received £4.3 billion of public sector receipts from the EU, so the UK's net public sector contribution to the EU was an estimated £8.9 billion."

 

Do you really think the EU will even notice the £8.9 billion ?  It seems you really want to believe this.  

 

Till now it looks like Brexit is a big failure...   another quote;

 

• Brexit is on course to cost the UK more than its combined total of payments to the European Union budget over the past 47 years, Bloomberg Economics found.
• Bloomberg said the cost of the UK’s vote to leave the EU had already reached £130 billion.
• A further £70 billion is likely to be added by the end of 2020, the economist Dan Hanson found.

Brexit is set to have cost the UK more than £200 billion in lost economic growth by the end of this year – a figure that almost eclipses the total amount the UK has paid toward the European Union budget over the past 47 years.

According to research by Bloomberg Economics, the cost of the UK’s vote to leave has already reached £130 billion, with a further £70 billion likely to be added by the end of 2020.

 

 

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I don't get it!

The brexiteers got their Brexit. Why don't you focus on rebuilding the UK instead of wishing for the EU to fail.

A thriving EU will ultimately benefit the UK.

After all schadenfreude is for people with, well.....small feet.

Allow me to explain. I was ambivalent towards the EU until they so obviously started trying to harm the UK throughout the negotiations. They are clearly hoping the UK fails as a lesson to others who wish to leave their corrupt little club. That is why they have been so obstinate throughout the negotiations to the point that they are prepared to cut their nose off to spite their face. So whilst I don't wish them to fail, I am predicting that they will and won't shed too many tears when they do.

 

As for the childish comment about small feet, I've always been very suspicious of men who speculate about the size of other men's appendages. Very suspicious. But if that's how you roll... ???? 

[ThomasThBKK]

5 hours ago, jaiyen said:

Read the article and you will see just how united they are !   Glad UK is getting out.  

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs

 

Thank us later, na krap. 

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

Do you really think the EU will even notice the £8.9 billion ?  It seems you really want to believe this.  

8.9 Billion? It's a little more than that.

 

You think they won't notice 15% of their economy going? It seems you really want to believe this.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/brexit-burned-81bn-hole-eu-budget-leaders-fill-gap-200220143900353.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/21/eu-leaders-at-odds-over-filling-brexit-shortfall

 

[Eibot]

The EU will prevail from this and come out stronger. These are not times not jump ship. 

[marqus12]

Eurobonds or Europe will be eaten by China and the US + UK.

 

[justin case]

IMF & other international organisations will OWN most of the countries with virtual money created out of thin air with no backing, but everybody will pay it back with interest, for the next xx years ...  WET DREAM come true

[Rimmer]

A post linking to a paywall site has been removed

[chilli42]

If the US Fed keeps printing money the USA will be heading right down the same rabbit hole of inflation.

[Eibot]

2 hours ago, Sundown said:

When Italy will go to vote (sooner or later, it will happen) the right party will win and Salvini will become prime minister. In that right moment Italy will start procedures to get out of EU, this is 100% happening. 

That will equal bankruptcy of Italy. Who will bail them out? 

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I thing a much stronger and united EU will emerge from the Corona crises,  especially with Brexit now well behind them.

Good luck to the EU and get well soon.

 

Brexit isn't "well behind" them at all. There are still complicated negotiations to be held. 

 

Italy, and Spain, are certainly looking for very big financial help. Conte came across as saying that was the price of "unity". Some member states are wary, and given the political turmoil and corruption that's always rife within Italy, that's undestandable.

 

However, the Italians have a point in that when the <deleted> hit the fan, it seemed very much a case of every member for himself! Requests for medical and supplies help were ignored, apart from China and Russia.

 

If the EU was a federal state, with central budgets, controls, and a central ruling body, then a central response would've been applied. But it's not. Nor is it a free market association of members who are sovereign states. It's a little bit more than just an association but not a federation. So neither one nor the other. Which means arguments, slow responses, and not any happy.

 

Great future. 

[ThomasThBKK]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

However, the Italians have a point in that when the <deleted> hit the fan, it seemed very much a case of every member for himself! Requests for medical and supplies help were ignored, apart from China and Russia.

 

Rubbish.

 

Germany donated 7.5 tons of medical aid including ventilator and test kits to italy. 

Flying in their people to german ICUs, flying in european citizens that are stranded from all over the world.

Donating ventilators to the UK and co.

 

 

All stuff from Russia was utterly worthless propaganda and the only ones that does <deleted> all to help in the EU is as always the UK.

[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, jaiyen said:

Read the article and you will see just how united they are !   Glad UK is getting out.  

With the UK still in, it would have been a LOT more difficult to find an agreement.

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, Sundown said:

When Italy will go to vote (sooner or later, it will happen) the right party will win and Salvini will become prime minister. In that right moment Italy will start procedures to get out of EU, this is 100% happening. 

The Italians are very well aware of what would happen with the New Lira then... Mr "Selfini" might have a mouth a crock will be jealous of, but the Italians still have brains. Remind, Spain, Portugal, Greece, the Balkans and even Southern France are competitors. 5% import duty of Italian goods into Germanica will break quite some of their export. And travel difficulties their trourism industry.

[Bullie]

15 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

The nations within the EU have an opportunity to see what happens when a country leaves the bloc by watching what happens to the UK.

I think most of them will decide remaining within the EU is a good idea. 

I think Britain will think differently in 50 years. It will still be Britain. The rest of the EU will be a pawn to the overlords in Brussels.

[ThomasThBKK]

5 minutes ago, Bullie said:

I think Britain will think differently in 50 years. It will still be Britain. The rest of the EU will be a pawn to the overlords in Brussels.

 

Wait, i thought the EU doesn't do enough, but now they are the overlords? 

 

Contradicting as always. 

 

One one had everyone wants sovereignity, on the other hand everyone wants to be bailed out by others - can't have your cake and eat it too. 
 

[Bullie]

10 hours ago, Iron Tongue said:

I think covid-19 + immigrant swarms has shown how not united Europe is.  Could take a few years, but the EU is going to be a lot smaller.

Is it not amazing how suddenly the migrant problem has gone POOF (Italy says NO for the next 5 months, in the Netherlands only 150 migrants wandered in in the last 6 weeks as opposed to a regular 900 per month), the air is breathable and even my city Amsterdam is wonderful again without too much traffic, and  zero tourists!! Islamic invaders were repelled at the Greek borders, as they should be.

 

I could not be more happy. Do let borders exist between countries, do let world tourist travel be a thing of the past. I feel I can finally breathe freely again.

[Bullie]

6 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Brexit isn't "well behind" them at all. There are still complicated negotiations to be held. 

 

Italy, and Spain, are certainly looking for very big financial help. Conte came across as saying that was the price of "unity". Some member states are wary, and given the political turmoil and corruption that's always rife within Italy, that's undestandable.

 

However, the Italians have a point in that when the <deleted> hit the fan, it seemed very much a case of every member for himself! Requests for medical and supplies help were ignored, apart from China and Russia.

 

If the EU was a federal state, with central budgets, controls, and a central ruling body, then a central response would've been applied. But it's not. Nor is it a free market association of members who are sovereign states. It's a little bit more than just an association but not a federation. So neither one nor the other. Which means arguments, slow responses, and not any happy.

 

Great future. 

Utterly untrue. When the <deleted> hit the fan, other European states stepped in, mainly Germany donated a LOT more that russia and china. It was just in Italy's interest to state that, so as to have a stronger position when they went begging (again).  There is no need for a " central response", other than an EEG alliance between states to help each other in times of need. Look at the reaction at the Greek/turkish border. Many European countries stepped up to the task of keeping the Hun out.

Let Italy go back to the Lira, devaluate and do it's thing. They can come calling again in 25 years, when they have learned some discipline (haha).

Edited April 10, 2020 by Bullie

[Sundown]

5 hours ago, puipuitom said:

The Italians are very well aware of what would happen with the New Lira then... Mr "Selfini" might have a mouth a crock will be jealous of, but the Italians still have brains. Remind, Spain, Portugal, Greece, the Balkans and even Southern France are competitors. 5% import duty of Italian goods into Germanica will break quite some of their export. And travel difficulties their trourism industry.

Since the introduction of the Euro the household savings rate has dramatically collapsed from 14% to nearly 2%. Long story short people is getting poorer and fed up staring at Germany getting richer and richer. Believe me they don't care about what will happen next, they will just do it.

[StreetCowboy]

16 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I thought the EU would crumble within the next 10 years anyway. It looks like their failure to take appropriate action re. the virus will speed that up. If Italy goes the house of cards will tumble and 67% of Italians currently believe they'd be better off outside the EU.

 

It's a flawed model, a protectionist racket and fundamentally undemocratic. I will be glad to see the back of it and return to sovereign nation states trading freely and cooperating with each other. 

Back in the day, companies traded with one another, and government oversaw and regulated that trade.  Maybe where you come from there is not the same distinction between enterprise and governance to which I am accustomed.

I think it will be a disaster for the UK if we have anarchy on both sides of the channel

[zhounan]

The situation is quite clear: they want to bankrupt Italy and steal its companies and enormous public property.
They will have the debt aid accepted under threat (European Stability Mechanism ESM is a save bank mechanism), then they will send the Troika, and the citizens will be strangled by the fiscal pressure to repay these dirty debt for the next decades. 
Exactly as happened to the Greek brothers.

FED pass stimulus package,

Bank of England pass stimulus package

Bang of Japan pass stimulus package,

China Central bank  pass stimulus package

even the Bank of Thailand pass stimulus package

but, European Central Bank They NOT, They have monetary seigniorage of a private currency, the EURO.

European Union is the cage where every country eventually will  succumb, except for Germany because this cage was built just for them.

 

ESM Treaty Reform (December 2019) MUST READ

Maastricht Treaty (February 1992)

Treaty of Lisbon

Edited April 10, 2020 by zhounan

[Bruntoid]

Lol the desperation of the Brexiteers coming to the fore, hoping a deadly pandemic will give then credibility - bless ! 
 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Bruntoid

[Crazy Alex]

16 hours ago, JonnyF said:

What support? We were a net contributor, meaning we were supporting them not the other way around.

 

Look at the top 4 contributors to the flawed experiment.

 

 

Germany, deep recession.

UK, departed 2 months ago. Phew.

France, deep recession.

Italy, 67% of the population believe they'd be better off outside the EU.

 

They can't agree on the budget, and they can't agree to the COVID-19 rescue package.

 

The ship is sinking, but fortunately the UK already left and is half way towards the shore. You won't want to be a part of it when that house of cards comes tumbling down, believe me.

 

Thanks for posting the graphic. It's difficult to imagine the German people not growing tired of subsidizing the moocher nations yet again.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[bert bloggs]

8 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Lol the desperation of the Brexiteers coming to the fore, hoping a deadly pandemic will give then credibility - bless ! 
 

 

Just a sore remainer loser ,hanging on to your dream - bless! ???? by by .