Cm Has The Season Been Up Or Down

[ThaiPauly]

UG...do you remember when a certain Doctor who hailed from CM said that CM would become one of the biggest business hubs of SE Asia?

All these posh hotels took him at face value, thats when they were planned, things have dramtically changed in the 4 years since he said that

[Ulysses G.]

That's for sure.

[lannarebirth]

UG...do you remember when a certain Doctor who hailed from CM said that CM would become one of the biggest business hubs of SE Asia?

All these posh hotels took him at face value, thats when they were planned, things have dramtically changed in the 4 years since he said that

Not to mention the casinoes he hoped to build.

[Mapguy]

The "mega-development" promises suckered in a lot of big investors. Another Asian transportation hub! Hah! The large hotels are generally now bleeding money, and have been for some time. Chiang Mai is way overbuilt with rooms. It is not that they had the business and lost it; they've never really had the business.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Basically we need Thaksin back.. Then everything will get back on track with the economy and tourism, also for Chiang Mai.

[ThNiner]

Basically we need Thaksin back.. Then everything will get back on track with the economy and tourism, also for Chiang Mai.

It's not just you who wants him back. I also want him back. So do Abhisit, Suthep, Kasit, the entire gov't (basically), the judges...etc. And I totally agree that if he comes back, everything in this country will definietly get back on track (not just Chiangmai.) No more chaos, riots, or incited violence you know.

Edited April 28, 2009 by ThNiner

[cmdream]

Basically we need Thaksin back.. Then everything will get back on track with the economy and tourism, also for Chiang Mai.

It's not just you who wants him back. I also want him back. So do Abhisit, Suthep, Kasit, the entire gov't (basically), the judges...etc. And I totally agree that if he comes back, everything in this country will definietly get back on track (not just Chiangmai.) No more chaos, riots, or incited violence you know.

Sounds of desperation to me.

[mnbcm]

It doesn't seem like there are large numbers of very wealthy people visiting Chiang Mai on a regular basis. Who is going to pay much more for all of those expensive 5 Star hotels that are all over town?

There's quite a few rich Chinese and Koreans visiting aren't there? I would think most of them stay in the luxury hotels.

[Ricardo]

Basically we need Thaksin back.. Then everything will get back on track with the economy and tourism, also for Chiang Mai.

Erm ... always supposing that he was actually able to deliver, perhaps a bit of a moot point, especially now that we have the global economic crisis.

My own view is that C.M. isn't the sort of place, to attract serious numbers of the very-well-off, so there is now over-capacity in 5-star hotels, which will be a long-term problem for their owners. But that the nature/culture/hill-tribe attractions will continue to pull-in reasonable numbers, of middle-class middle-aged middle-income punters on a package, so the 3/4-star places will continue to jog along. Backpackers aren't so welcome here these days, the exchange-rate & prices also work against them, so I wouldn't see any great growth there. But perhaps there are some regional-tourists who, given direct charter-flights & reasonable hotels & good all-in packages just might see some growth over the next few years ?

And the domestic-travel market, all those bus-tours which come in the 'winter' or were so popular during Ratchapruek, would that help build profitable repeat-business ? Perhaps ... but I wouldn't bet the farm on it !

[Mapguy]

From the New York Times:

May 3, 2009

PRACTICAL TRAVELER

Problems, and Deals, in Thailand

By MICHELLE HIGGINS

JUST how many hits can the tourism industry of Thailand take? Will the anti-government protests in

Bangkok in mid-April — which escalated into two days of rioting during the traditional Thai New Year and

caused the cancellation of a summit meeting

[anonymouse]

My pub business (The Olde Bell British Pub) in chiang Mai has done fairly well over the high seson: takings up around 5% - which as quite a new business is slightly disappointing, but given the economic situation and PAD airport closure (far more damaging than the Red shirts inevitable response) I'll take it!. We certainly hope for better next high season and that depends to a large extent on government policy which means calling an election as soon as possible, ideally under the 1997 constitution with all sides agreeing to be bound by the result and the military and others at the top (a-hem) agreeing to abide by the results. If this happens and the country becomes at ease with itself again, the next tourist season should be good.

Nice to hear some good news, I've frequented your establishment on occasions and am glad your takings are up.

Takings might go up even more if your put some more prominent sign-age outside your pub - as it can be very easy to miss [hope your alright with some positive criticism] when walking down Loi Kroh.

[Ulysses G.]

The Olde Belle was packed full last night as was the Duke's and the CM Saloon. It is not all bad news in Chiang Mai.

[john b good]

Well I will tell you that you could have fired a fusilade down Loi Kroh tonight and you would not have scored a hitt.

There wasn't 20 customers (total) in all the bars from Kotchasan to Kamphangdin.

Admittedly it was fairly early but I have never seen the street so bare (of drinkers & punters)

Sadly the girls were not offering discounts of 50% off for a roll in the hay

[Mapguy]

The Olde Belle was packed full last night as was the Duke's and the CM Saloon. It is not all bad news in Chiang Mai.

Well, you're right, UG, in a regrettably limited way.

Yes, some traditional comfortable favorites among the resident expat crowd, as you have mentioned, are probably doing okay. In fact, I know quite accurately of a very reputable hotel that has done better than 75% occupancy through the last season, but it is a big exception.

I have no real complaint with The Dukes or the Belle. And you really forgot at least one place, the Riverview, that often packs in resident expats. Nice comfortable cuisine (?), but not serious fare. More places? Sure, but you get the idea.

You seem to be interested mainly in places that basically fill up the bellies of pensioners on a financial leash, I guess, and farang trendies on the make who don't feel comfortable with Thai food. And to judge from the nasty anticlerical comments I have read over several months on TV, the bellies of more than a couple of resident missionary teachers and families.

You've been here a long time. You understand some things, but the economic life of Chiang Mai is not based on the perfect tuna fish sandwich --- although I do appreciate your guidance on that topic on another CM TV thread! Thanks!

[john b good]

Basically we need Thaksin back.. Then everything will get back on track with the economy and tourism, also for Chiang Mai.

It's not just you who wants him back. I also want him back. So do Abhisit, Suthep, Kasit, the entire gov't (basically), the judges...etc. And I totally agree that if he comes back, everything in this country will definietly get back on track (not just Chiangmai.) No more chaos, riots, or incited violence you know.

Noy sure whether you are taking the pyss or not.

If he come back he should be put in front of a firing squad.

Why should anyone be in control (and in charge) when 3,000 people are murdered and then not have to pay the ferryman.

[john b good]

I always wonder how realistic it is having all of these big luxury hotels in a town where one can get a comfortable room with English TV, aircon and a swimming pool for around 500-1,000 baht - even during normal economic times. A nicer three or 4 star hotel might be 1,500 -2,000 baht. It doesn't seem like there are large numbers of very wealthy people visiting Chiang Mai on a regular basis. Who is going to pay much more for all of those expensive 5 Star hotels that are all over town?

There is a word for it "UG" and it's called money laundering.

Many hotel's in CM are running at 10 % occupancy. I have absolutely no sympathey whatsoever for these scumbags.

The people that I do have sympathy for the girls trying in the best way they can to get money for their families.

[Mapguy]

I always wonder how realistic it is having all of these big luxury hotels in a town where one can get a comfortable room with English TV, aircon and a swimming pool for around 500-1,000 baht - even during normal economic times. A nicer three or 4 star hotel might be 1,500 -2,000 baht. It doesn't seem like there are large numbers of very wealthy people visiting Chiang Mai on a regular basis. Who is going to pay much more for all of those expensive 5 Star hotels that are all over town?

There is a word for it "UG" and it's called money laundering.

Many hotel's in CM are running at 10 % occupancy. I have absolutely no sympathey whatsoever for these scumbags.

The people that I do have sympathy for the girls trying in the best way they can to get money for their families.

I don't think anyone in the current mess is a scumbag. I do hope the big boys have deep enough pockets and come to understand and do something serious about how not to kill off the few decent tourist draws to Chiang Mai that are being devastated by seasonal air pollution, giant billboards, and the like! And I wish the girls well.

I am not talking about making Chiang Mai a casino town. that wouldn't work, anyway, if you think about it long enough.

Maybe some of the five-stars can be turned into senior housing.

Just a thought. Just a thought!

[dave2]

john b good.

i feel the same for all the girls with very few customers but the bar owners / renters are in a bad way too and it wont be long before loy kroh road starts to shut down

i was talking to a bar renter last night , the bar was a single unit about 12 foot wide and about 25 foot deep pool table etc and shes paying 13.000 ( thirteen thousand ) baht a month rent ..... plus electric .... water ... tea money for opening late etc and she has 3 full time girls / hostesses and the odd freelancer that pops in now and again.

on friday night she took 650 baht total ...... no barfines ... no girls hired ST or LT .

the girls got a few lady drinks during the evening but that was it

how long she and many other bar owners in the same boat can stay open taking that sort of money for an 8 / 9 / 10 hour opening time we shall see.

fact .... one bar 12 foot by 25 pool table etc in the bar boxing centre at the bottom of loy kroh road used to be open untill 2 or 3 or 4 am ........ last night ... 11 30 ....closed ... bye bye .... whos next ?....... how many ?... the future of girly bars in chiang mai ?

dave2

[Ulysses G.]

The Olde Belle was packed full last night as was the Duke's and the CM Saloon. It is not all bad news in Chiang Mai.

Well, you're right, UG, in a regrettably limited way.

Yes, some traditional comfortable favorites among the resident expat crowd, as you have mentioned, are probably doing okay. In fact, I know quite accurately of a very reputable hotel that has done better than 75% occupancy through the last season, but it is a big exception.

I have no real complaint with The Dukes or the Belle. And you really forgot at least one place, the Riverview, that often packs in resident expats. Nice comfortable cuisine (?), but not serious fare. More places? Sure, but you get the idea.

You seem to be interested mainly in places that basically fill up the bellies of pensioners on a financial leash, I guess, and farang trendies on the make who don't feel comfortable with Thai food. And to judge from the nasty anticlerical comments I have read over several months on TV, the bellies of more than a couple of resident missionary teachers and families.

You've been here a long time. You understand some things, but the economic life of Chiang Mai is not based on the perfect tuna fish sandwich --- although I do appreciate your guidance on that topic on another CM TV thread! Thanks!

Thanks for your take on whatever it is that you are talking about, but (as per usual) it has little to nothing to do with my post

I walked down Loi Kroh Road from the Night Bazaar the other day and noticed three spots with a lot of customers and because everyone is so worried about tourism, I thought that I would mention it here. Most of us are looking for good news.

The fact that they had a lot of customers that night has nothing to do with my personal likes or tastes and I did not go near the one restaurant that it seems does meet with your approval; it is pretty far away from Loi Kroh Road - so sorry.

By the way, are you going to the Thai Visa party next month? I have to admit that I would go just to meet you in person.

I have been lucky enough to meet several of the posters who like to follow me around on the internet making nothing but negative comments about my posts - I really do seem to upset certain individuals. They were pretty much exactly as I had pictured them in my mind and let's just say that I do not lose any sleep over their opinions.

Unfortunately, I find that most of these Internet Warriors avoid going to the parties like the plague (because you are supposed to wear a name tag). The few that I have met are either angry lunatics looking for a fist fight, or, more often, the kind of fellow who just likes to take potshots at other folks without ever revealing their true identity. Luckily, sometimes the more bashful types just cannot resist the lure of a few free beers and forget to keep their hand placed over their nametag and I spot them!

Edited May 4, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[getgoin]

The Olde Belle was packed full last night as was the Duke's and the CM Saloon. It is not all bad news in Chiang Mai.

Well, you're right, UG, in a regrettably limited way.

Yes, some traditional comfortable favorites among the resident expat crowd, as you have mentioned, are probably doing okay. In fact, I know quite accurately of a very reputable hotel that has done better than 75% occupancy through the last season, but it is a big exception.

I have no real complaint with The Dukes or the Belle. And you really forgot at least one place, the Riverview, that often packs in resident expats. Nice comfortable cuisine (?), but not serious fare. More places? Sure, but you get the idea.

You seem to be interested mainly in places that basically fill up the bellies of pensioners on a financial leash, I guess, and farang trendies on the make who don't feel comfortable with Thai food. And to judge from the nasty anticlerical comments I have read over several months on TV, the bellies of more than a couple of resident missionary teachers and families.

You've been here a long time. You understand some things, but the economic life of Chiang Mai is not based on the perfect tuna fish sandwich --- although I do appreciate your guidance on that topic on another CM TV thread! Thanks!

Thanks for your take on whatever it is that you are talking about, but (as per usual) it has little to nothing to do with my post

I walked down Loi Kroh Road from the Night Bazaar the other day and noticed three spots with a lot of customers and because everyone is so worried about tourism, I thought that I would mention it here. Most of us are looking for good news.

The fact that they had a lot of customers that night has nothing to do with my personal likes or tastes and I did not go near the one restaurant that it seems does meet with your approval; it is pretty far away from Loi Kroh Road - so sorry.

By the way, are you going to the Thai Visa party next month? I have to admit that I would go just to meet you in person.

I have been lucky enough to meet several of the posters who like to follow me around on the internet making nothing but negative comments about my posts - I really do seem to upset certain individuals. They were pretty much exactly as I had pictured them in my mind and let's just say that I do not lose any sleep over their opinions.

Unfortunately, I find that most of these Internet Warriors avoid going to the parties like the plague (because you are supposed to wear a name tag). The few that I have met are either angry lunatics looking for a fist fight, or, more often, the kind of fellow who just likes to take potshots at other folks without ever revealing their true identity. Luckily, sometimes the more bashful types just cannot resist the lure of a few free beers and forget to keep their hand placed over their nametag and I spot them!

I have to agree with you UG. Did you do something to upset Mapguy? Maybe you don't advertise on his map? Maybe he was one of the guys who wanted to resell you a cheap book for a lot of money. I would love to find out.

While most of the time Mapguy doesn't seem to know what he is talking about he does take a lot of uninspired sophomoric cheap shots at you.

In keeping with the spirit of the post I think that town is empty and while Thailand is not suffering from an outbreak of swine flu, we have a lot of swines, I won't mention names, it won't be good for spring or summer travel.

[anonymouse]

The Olde Belle was packed full last night as was the Duke's and the CM Saloon. It is not all bad news in Chiang Mai.

Well, you're right, UG, in a regrettably limited way.

Yes, some traditional comfortable favorites among the resident expat crowd, as you have mentioned, are probably doing okay. In fact, I know quite accurately of a very reputable hotel that has done better than 75% occupancy through the last season, but it is a big exception.

I have no real complaint with The Dukes or the Belle. And you really forgot at least one place, the Riverview, that often packs in resident expats. Nice comfortable cuisine (?), but not serious fare. More places? Sure, but you get the idea.

You seem to be interested mainly in places that basically fill up the bellies of pensioners on a financial leash, I guess, and farang trendies on the make who don't feel comfortable with Thai food. And to judge from the nasty anticlerical comments I have read over several months on TV, the bellies of more than a couple of resident missionary teachers and families.

You've been here a long time. You understand some things, but the economic life of Chiang Mai is not based on the perfect tuna fish sandwich --- although I do appreciate your guidance on that topic on another CM TV thread! Thanks!

Thanks for your take on whatever it is that you are talking about, but (as per usual) it has little to nothing to do with my post

I walked down Loi Kroh Road from the Night Bazaar the other day and noticed three spots with a lot of customers and because everyone is so worried about tourism, I thought that I would mention it here. Most of us are looking for good news.

The fact that they had a lot of customers that night has nothing to do with my personal likes or tastes and I did not go near the one restaurant that it seems does meet with your approval; it is pretty far away from Loi Kroh Road - so sorry.

By the way, are you going to the Thai Visa party next month? I have to admit that I would go just to meet you in person.

I have been lucky enough to meet several of the posters who like to follow me around on the internet making nothing but negative comments about my posts - I really do seem to upset certain individuals. They were pretty much exactly as I had pictured them in my mind and let's just say that I do not lose any sleep over their opinions.

Unfortunately, I find that most of these Internet Warriors avoid going to the parties like the plague (because you are supposed to wear a name tag). The few that I have met are either angry lunatics looking for a fist fight, or, more often, the kind of fellow who just likes to take potshots at other folks without ever revealing their true identity. Luckily, sometimes the more bashful types just cannot resist the lure of a few free beers and forget to keep their hand placed over their nametag and I spot them!

I have to agree with you UG. Did you do something to upset Mapguy? Maybe you don't advertise on his map? Maybe he was one of the guys who wanted to resell you a cheap book for a lot of money. I would love to find out.

While most of the time Mapguy doesn't seem to know what he is talking about he does take a lot of uninspired sophomoric cheap shots at you.

I noticed this as well, maybe a boxing ring could be set up at Tuskers for the annual party to settle it in a manly way, my money's on the big fellow

[WinnieTheKhwai]

fact .... one bar 12 foot by 25 pool table etc in the bar boxing centre at the bottom of loy kroh road used to be open untill 2 or 3 or 4 am ........ last night ... 11 30 ....closed ... bye bye .... whos next ?....... how many ?... the future of girly bars in chiang mai ?

Yes.

But it's okay, because Chiang Mai is a 'cultural' place where tourists only go to look at temples, and nightlife = kantoke dinner.

[IanForbes]

But it's okay, because Chiang Mai is a 'cultural' place where tourists only go to look at temples, and nightlife = kantoke dinner.

True, Winnie. Who was it that said the "BODY" is a temple? I know some great bodies that need to be visited and gazed upon.

I just hope the small places I enjoy manage to survive the global crisis. Things are going to change, but hopefully for the better. This past season I saw many of my former lady friends drift back home because of lack of clients. The back packer crowd can't afford "lady drinks" and the big money punters go elsewhere. Once you've seen a few dozen temples you've seen enough. It's like going through Italy or Spain and visiting all the little churches. After a while they all appear the same. After a while you get looked out and search for some place that is comfortable and friendly.

There IS something about a good book to get lost in for a day or so.

[el jefe]

I always wonder how realistic it is having all of these big luxury hotels in a town where one can get a comfortable room with English TV, aircon and a swimming pool for around 500-1,000 baht - even during normal economic times. A nicer three or 4 star hotel might be 1,500 -2,000 baht. It doesn't seem like there are large numbers of very wealthy people visiting Chiang Mai on a regular basis. Who is going to pay much more for all of those expensive 5 Star hotels that are all over town?

There is a word for it "UG" and it's called money laundering.

Many hotel's in CM are running at 10 % occupancy. I have absolutely no sympathey whatsoever for these scumbags.

The people that I do have sympathy for the girls trying in the best way they can to get money for their families.

I don't think anyone in the current mess is a scumbag. I do hope the big boys have deep enough pockets and come to understand and do something serious about how not to kill off the few decent tourist draws to Chiang Mai that are being devastated by seasonal air pollution, giant billboards, and the like! And I wish the girls well.

I am not talking about making Chiang Mai a casino town. that wouldn't work, anyway, if you think about it long enough.

Maybe some of the five-stars can be turned into senior housing.

Just a thought. Just a thought!

I think what Mr Good was trying to point out is that hotels are often used for money laundering. I don't know who owns any of the hotels in CM so I'm not making any accusations, but in many parts of the world, hotels are bought and sold in money laundering operations. It doesn't really matter if they make money or not. Again, I don't know that it has ever happened in Thailand, but I think that was the point that was being made.

[ThaiPauly]

I heard that the top 5 floors of the Shangri- La Hotel have been temporarily closed till business picks up.

The Meridian still has hardly any customers, and one week had none at all.

I have recently seen three new hotels under construction, and I don't get out much so there are probably more

[ThePunPun]

I heard that the top 5 floors of the Shangri- La Hotel have been temporarily closed till business picks up.

The Meridian still has hardly any customers, and one week had none at all.

I have recently seen three new hotels under construction, and I don't get out much so there are probably more

Did anyone ever see an increase? Or have we just accepted the new low levels as the norm.

Seems like the past week has been even slower than normal

Any Input?

G

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

Seems like we really need to "tease out" long-term expat patterns of patronage here from "tourist" patronage ?

Of course, if you are a hotel owner, you probably are concerned more with occupancy rates, and revenues from your in-house restaurants, etc.

For us to really evaluate occupancy rates for Chiang Mai hotels and guest houses, ioho, we'd need accurate statistics, which, ioho, are never available for anything in LOS.

And, among tourists, we should discriminate between the holidaying back-packers headed towards cheap-guest houses, and what the casinoes in Las Vegas call "whales," the big spenders, who are going to stay way upscale, as in Dhara Devi, Shangri-La, and then the mid-range spenders who are going to stay maybe at Centara ?

Re Khun Mapguy vs. Khun UG: while not getting near the "dynamic" of mutual perceptions here, would just like to say that we enjoy posts from both these people very much. Khun Mapguy, we think, often brings a very keen, and different, kind of "analysis" to the table. And Khun UG, is one of our favorite observers of Chiang Mai life, and posts on so many varied topics.

It is intereting, to these eyeballs, to see how the mentions of Loy Kroh (the night-life dimension, not the restaurants, like the Olde Belle) are interwoven on this thread.

If we were going to choose an "economic" barometer for Chiang Mai's economic inputs, as a whole, for all foreigners, expat, and tourist, it would not be the strip of bars down Loy Kroh.

Meanwhile we remain "staggered" by the vast investment made in creating the (as yet little known ?) Siripanna "Boutique" Resort not far from where we live: it is enormous in scale, sumptuous in lavish interior decorations. They have even re-created an authentic rice-paddy in the back farmed by authentic small people from Issarn ! And, this is what puzzles us: there's nothing in this neighborhood that is of tourist interest (except proximity to the Gymkhana Club for golf players?), and it's surrounded by rather down-scale typical small Thai establishments. A palatial oasis in a rather depressing neighborhood, and a neighborhood with a relatively high population density.

We'd love to know where the money came from to build Siripanna, and what the long-term business plan of the owners is.

Viva Chiang Mai and all its my$terie$ !

best, ~o:37;

Edited March 23, 2011 by orang37

[THAIPHUKET]

.

put some more prominent sign-age outside your pub - as it can be very easy to miss [hope your alright with some positive criticism] when walking down Loi Kroh.

I couldn't agree more, have been down by bike on Loi Kroh many times and I do confess to blindness but I DIDN'T see it!

Followed even one of the CM maps. The arrow is misplaced, it's on the side road left back to the flower market.

[Sparkles]

I heard that the top 5 floors of the Shangri- La Hotel have been temporarily closed till business picks up.

The Meridian still has hardly any customers, and one week had none at all.

I have recently seen three new hotels under construction, and I don't get out much so there are probably more

Had coffee at the Meridian this morning,first time I have been there. At least 20 people ,with lugggage, at the reception desk checking in and another dozen having coffee in the lobby. I don't think things are that bad at the Meridian at least.

[Gonzo the Face]

I heard that the top 5 floors of the Shangri- La Hotel have been temporarily closed till business picks up.

The Meridian still has hardly any customers, and one week had none at all.

I have recently seen three new hotels under construction, and I don't get out much so there are probably more

Had coffee at the Meridian this morning,first time I have been there. At least 20 people ,with lugggage, at the reception desk checking in and another dozen having coffee in the lobby. I don't think things are that bad at the Meridian at least.

Could you make a guess were they a mix or of any obvious nationality?

Europeans, Asians, maybe Bkk Thais, Koreans ??? etc