Extension experience at Chiang Mai today

[TigerandDog]

Encountered a new snag when doing annual extension ( O-A Retirement ) today. Arrived at 1.00 p.m.  Had all paperwork checked and everything was going smoothly, until it was time to look up the health insurance database. My extension is due on 14th May, and as usual went to do in advance. Unfortunately, this will no longer be possible, we can only go in on the day our extensions expire BECAUSE the Immigration system does not allow IO's to view the certificate details in advance of the policy commencement date,

even though they have a hard copy with all the documentation provided. So that's a 400km round trip, 1 nights hotel accommodation and petrol money wasted. So if you're on O-A based on retirement you can't extend early anymore, which leaves no time to jump through extra hoops if necessary.

Edited April 22, 2020 by TigerandDog
Correction

[Tarteso]

..until it was time to look up the health insurance database..

 

Do you mean that IO has required you health insurance for an extension 1 year visa?

Edited April 22, 2020 by Tarteso

[DrJack54]

15 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

..until it was time to look up the health insurance database..

 

Do you mean that IO has required you health insurance for an extension 1 year visa?

The OP previously had a non O-A.

Any extension to permission of stay based on retirement will require insurance 

[DrJack54]

OP, check out some options moving forward from this guy @Peter Denis

[Thailand]

I think this has come up at other offices.

But yes, they don't intend to make it easy here do they!

[SteveK]

They're either very smart and have deliberately engineered-in these inconveniences, or a bit less smart and these issues have arisen over things that were not considered properly during the development of the current policies.

Edited April 22, 2020 by SteveK

[Tarteso]

I Have health insurance with AIA, at 61 y/o. They increased this month the payment from 4000k to 5000k monthly, Covering 1.000.000 y. (Only impatient). Hope will be enough when renove my Visa ext. ????

[SteveK]

Just now, Tarteso said:

They increased this month the payment from 4000k to 5000k monthly

5k a month for insurance at age 61!

 

That's daylight robbery!

[Peter Denis]

Hi TigerandDog,

Yes, a couple of weeks ago there was a similar story of a retiree applying for the 1-year extension based on his original Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of retirement at Chiang Wattana.

He had to come back a couple of times (each time having to update his bank-book and statement) because the dim-witted immigration officer insisted that he could not apply for the 1-year extension as he was not health-insured yet.  And she insisted that the start of the 1-year extension and the health-insurance policy start date had to be synced to the HOUR.  Obviously that was an impossible requirement, and finally the officer conceded to handle his application just before closing time of the CW office (so that he would only be 'non-insured' for the evening hours).  You cannot make this stuff up!

>> I did PM you a comprehensive guideline outlining all details/options to convert to a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa and subsequent 1-year extension (which does not require the #$%^& thai IO-approved health-insurance).  You already subscribed to the health-insurance so will probably just do the 1-year retirement extension based on your original O-A Visa, but can come in handy for next year's extension.

[BritManToo]

28 minutes ago, Thailand said:

I think this has come up at other offices.

But yes, they don't intend to make it easy here do they!

If he'd paid an agent, the problem would have never appeared.

[Ventenio]

12 minutes ago, SteveK said:

5k a month for insurance at age 61!

 

That's daylight robbery!

I thought the expression was, "That's highway robbery!"

 

daylight works.....i'm not sure i've ever heard that one before.  the world is a big place.  

[Peter Denis]

15 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

I Have health insurance with AIA, at 61 y/o. They increased this month the payment from 4000k to 5000k monthly, Covering 1.000.000 y. (Only impatient). Hope will be enough when renove my Visa ext. ????

The thai IO-approved health-insurance is ONLY required when applying for a 1-year extension of your original Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of retirement.

If you are presently on such a Non Imm O-A Visa (or a 1-year extension of such Visa) the health-insurance requirement will be mandatory when applying for the 1-year extension.

If that is the case, better check with your insurer if your policy is indeed IO-approved, as not all health-insurance policies from TGIA insurers are IO-approved.  The minimum requirement, apart from the official IO-approval, is 400K in-patient and 40K out-patient coverage.

[Tarteso]

Thanks Peter, I will get more information 

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

Thanks Peter, I will get more information 

On which Visa category and type are your presently staying in Thailand?

Are you married to a thai national or have dependant thai children?

Do you intend to apply for a 1-year extension of your present Visa at your local IO?

>> Depending on your response it might turn out that the thai IO-approved health-insurance requirement is not applicable for you or that you have options to avoid it.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Tarteso]

10 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

On which Visa category and type are your presently staying in Thailand?

Are you married to a thai national or have dependant thai children?

Do you intend to apply for a 1-year extension of your present Visa at your local IO?

>> Depending on your response it might turn out that the thai IO-approved health-insurance requirement is not applicable for you.

Thanks!... last year I married with Thai national but I used from 2012 extension visa Non 0A. I Could use the 2 options... 800.000.- or married visa.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Tarteso

[DrJack54]

26 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If he'd paid an agent, the problem would have never appeared.

This is stated over and over re insurance requirement. When it was introduced it was hot topic. Bigger than even tm30 rubbish.

So please direct me to ONE agent that can get around this requirement. I don't want mate of mate that I recently had in another thread. BTW one price was 1600baht the other 12,500baht. Without agent name attached. 

When I had to and frow back when this first was introduced with couple of members, it eventually turned out the guy entered on non O-A and yes used agent. Catch was fella extension was based on marriage.

So put up. Give me agent. Many would jump at it. Unless the agent fee is higher than insurance. Which it will be. 

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

Thanks!... last year I married with Thai national but I used from 2012 extension visa Non 0A. I Could use the 2 options... 800.000.- or married visa.

When being married to a thai national, you could apply for the 1-year extension based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of MARRIAGE.

When doing so the thai IO-approved health-insurance is not required, and also the required financials are way lower than applying for reason of RETIREMENT. 

When it turns out that your present health-insurance is not thai IO-approved, you could thus applying for reason of marriage, or alternatively exit Thailand (necessary to kill the permission to stay of your present Non Imm O-A Visa) and then apply for a Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement or for reason of marriage.  That application can be done either in a thai embassy/consulate in your home-country or a neighboring country, and it can also be done in-country at your local IO.

>> I did PM you a comprehensive guideline document outlining all options/details to apply for or convert to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa (and subsequent 1-year extensions).

It only addresses the 'retirement' option, but the process steps are similar when applying for reason of marriage (typically the financial requirements are way lower, but the requirements to provide evidence that you are still married to a thai national are somewhat of a hassle).

 

[PhiPhi]

I'm on a non-B visa which is extended for retirement, I'm renewing the extension next month, am I required to have insurance?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, PhiPhi said:

I'm on a non-B visa which is extended for retirement, I'm renewing the extension next month, am I required to have insurance?

Insurance is not required.

Only if you were extending a entry for NON-OA visa would you need insurance.

[TigerandDog]

19 hours ago, Tarteso said:

..until it was time to look up the health insurance database..

 

Do you mean that IO has required you health insurance for an extension 1 year visa?

Yes, if you are here on Non Imm O-A then health insurance is mandatory to do an extension of stay. There have been numerous posts about that.

[Tarteso]

5 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Yes, if you are here on Non Imm O-A then health insurance is mandatory to do an extension of stay. There have been numerous posts about that.

Please...Read the previous post, 

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Yes, if you are here on Non Imm O-A then health insurance is mandatory to do an extension of stay. There have been numerous posts about that.

Only if extension is based on retirement.

[TigerandDog]

An update to yesterday's situation at CM. I spoke with a golfing buddy of mine who is an IO Captain at CM and asked why I had to go back on the day my extension expired. His explanation actually made some sense. As this was my first extension since health insurance became mandatory ( around Oct last year ) the certificate input into the TGIA system was for the 12 months of my extension period ( commencement date 14 May 2020. I went to CM Imm yesterday 22 Apr 2020 ). As there is no prior history of health insurance Immigration cannot see the certificate in the TGIA database until the date it comes into effect, viz my extension expiry date. However, if there was history in the database then there would have been no issue. Although I took out gap insurance ( to cover me for the month prior to my current extension expiring ) it was not input to the TGIA database by the health insurance company. Had it been input, then the certificate for the next 12 months would have been visible to Immigration as it would appear as a policy renewal rather than as a new policy. I will be speaking with a senior manager at my health insurance company later this afternoon to fill him in, and I'll be making 2 suggestions: #1. That all 9 approved health insurance companies, as a block, approach TGIA and insist that Immigration be granted access to the TGIA database for a period of 1 month prior to extensions expiring. #2. That a separate entry be input to the TGIA database for the gap insurance, which would then also allow Immigration to see not only the certificates in advance but also show that we are insured at the date of extension application and that the 12 month certificate is a policy renewal, not a new policy.  What a coincidence, the senior manager from m y health insurance company just telephoned me whilst I was writing this, and he was flabergasted that this was the case. He agreed that the best way to get a result was as a block with TGIA, and he will also have his IT techos investigate whether certificates for more than 12 months can be input as a single entry into the TGIA system or whether an entry the gap period ( less than 12 months ) can be input to the TGIA database.   Will keep everyone posted on the outcome when I hear it.

Edited April 23, 2020 by TigerandDog

[Pyloszeus]

17 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Insurance is not required.

Only if you were extending a entry for NON-OA visa would you need insurance.

Just as a aside, when you transfered you non b was it mev visa or had you extended already.

As i have just been turned down because I have a MEV non b.

Regards 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Pyloszeus
In the wrong post sorry

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, Pyloszeus said:

Just as a aside, when you transfered you non b was it mev visa or had you extended already.

As i have just been turned down because I have a MEV non b.

Apparently he probably had a extension of stay based upon working.

It should not matter whether you have a single or multiple entry non-b they should of accepted you application. It is a non immigrant visa and that is all that is required to apply for a extension of stay.

[Peter Denis]

30 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

...

As there is no prior history of health insurance Immigration cannot see the certificate in the TGIA database until the date it comes into effect, viz my extension expiry date. However, if there was history in the database then there would have been no issue.

...

Thanks for the update.

If it would be possible for the insurer to input the policy already in the TGIA database after you subscribed to it and before the policy date actually starts (which has to be aligned with the extension of your 1-year permission to stay), the problem would be solved.

But imo it is also a matter of rigidness/inflexibility at your IO.  Because you also presented them with a Certificate issued by your insurer that confirms your policy meets the IO requirements and provides the start-date.  Not processing your application because the same data must be 'visible' in the database, is once again over-the-top.

 

 

[Pyloszeus]

31 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Apparently he probably had a extension of stay based upon working.

It should not matter whether you have a single or multiple entry non-b they should of accepted you application. It is a non immigrant visa and that is all that is required to apply for a extension of stay.

Yes I understand, maybe I didn't make it clear, I have a mev b visa I tried to convert to retirement

they said no, because it has to be extended first  in the Country first.

I trien through an agency.

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, Pyloszeus said:

Yes I understand, maybe I didn't make it clear, I have a mev b visa I tried to convert to retirement

they said no, because it has to be extended first  in the Country first.

Some offices seem to try to make things as difficult as they can. There no reason that you should not be able to apply with a non-b visa.

[SteveK]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Some offices seem to try to make things as difficult as they can.  

Isn't that what they are getting paid for?

[Pyloszeus]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Apparently he probably had a extension of stay based upon working.

It should not matter whether you have a single or multiple entry non-b they should of accepted you application. It is a non immigrant visa and that is all that is required to apply for a extension of stay.

 

34 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Some offices seem to try to make things as difficult as they can. There no reason that you should not be able to apply with a non-b visa.

Hi ubonjoe,

Sorry to be  such a pest, these hoops are doing my head in.

I have the above visa it expires on the 1st July, but the 90days are up on the 4th of may.

I have a Company, (director) non b mtv. My only options now is to try and carry on with the business. I am at the moment trying to get the paperwork together, question, do I have untill the 4th of may, or the 21st July to get them together. 

They need as you know a group photo outside the business, but one of the employees has gone home and cannot travel back. His social welfare payments are up to date..

 

Regards flustered