Possible end to Pattaya lockdown set to be discussed today

[Surelynot]

I think the approach to all of this lockdown/herd immunity would have been radically different if the virus had targeted young people and parents risked losing their children rather than their parents. Sad in someways, but I guess most people would agree that would be the case.

[Greenhill]

3 hours ago, SEtonal said:

 

This notice is dated 18th April and does NOT mention anything about the lockdown being lifted on 1st May - only that the decision will be reviewed beforehand!

[tlock]

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

I think the approach to all of this lockdown/herd immunity would have been radically different if the virus had targeted young people and parents risked losing their children rather than their parents. Sad in someways, but I guess most people would agree that would be the case.

Absolutely agree, although I don't think it's sad.  

 

I mean the solution was handed to us on a silver platter- the working age population is not at serious risk.  At risk populations should lockdown, which is quite handy since the majority of them are retired.  No need to destroy the next 10 years for everyone else.  

 

For the vaaaaaaast majority of the human population, this virus is no big deal.  I'm tired of posting links, but the spin on  the massive numbers of asymptomatic cases (Stanford study showing 50 times the number of infections as has been reported) being a horrible thing could just as easily be seen as "wow, the virus is so minor that most people don't even know thay have it".

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Where will his tourists come from that he is so anxious to have arrive.  If the other provinces and domestic flights are not opened up, what is his big hurry?  or is it because he disenfranchised the neighboring cities whose people go to Pattaya for shopping....

Domestic travel... possibly.

[newnative]

      I think some posters are missing the point a bit.  Opening things up doesn't mean you, personally, have to venture out.  If you still feel unsafe, continue to stay home.  Continue to cut your own hair, cook your own food, exercise as best you can in your living room, do all your shopping on-line, and so forth.  Stay super safe by never leaving your room, if that is your preference.  Nothing wrong with that at all--especially if you are high-risk.

      Some of us, though, would like some personal responsibility added to the equation.  My swimming pool has been closed for a month or more, even though there was hardly ever more than 2 or 3 people in it at one time and it's a huge pool.  It's used all the hours it's open but residents go at different times.  Same with the gym--huge and never crowded as residents used it at different times throughout the day and evening.   Now that low season is here and there are even less tourists and snowbirds, the pool and gym will be even less crowded.  Why not allow pools and gyms to be open again, perhaps with a sign-up sheet that allows only 2  or 3 people in the pool or gym at one time?  Residents can sign-up for time blocks of a half-hour to an hour.  Let me choose if I think exercising my body with a slight risk of virus exposure is more important to my health and well-being than getting little or no exercise stuck at home. 

      Let me choose the risk of taking a walk on the beach, eating at a restaurant that has social distancing tables, going to a movie at a theater that has spaced-out its seating, or doing some shopping at stores that are currently closed.  We are making that choice already when we decide to go to banks, pharmacies, and food stores that are open.  It's time to allow more businesses to open and their employees to make a living, with some restrictions kept in place for businesses and events, such as concerts and spectator sports, where social distancing would be difficult to maintain.  

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, tlock said:

How about everyone who's scared stay home, and everyone who's not gets to go out? 

 

 

 

Best advice so far.....

[brucec64]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

      I think some posters are missing the point a bit.  Opening things up doesn't mean you, personally, have to venture out.  If you still feel unsafe, continue to stay home.  Continue to cut your own hair, cook your own food, exercise as best you can in your living room, do all your shopping on-line, and so forth.  Stay super safe by never leaving your room, if that is your preference.  Nothing wrong with that at all--especially if you are high-risk.

      Some of us, though, would like some personal responsibility added to the equation.  My swimming pool has been closed for a month or more, even though there was hardly ever more than 2 or 3 people in it at one time and it's a huge pool.  It's used all the hours it's open but residents go at different times.  Same with the gym--huge and never crowded as residents used it at different times throughout the day and evening.   Now that low season is here and there are even less tourists and snowbirds, the pool and gym will be even less crowded.  Why not allow pools and gyms to be open again, perhaps with a sign-up sheet that allows only 2  or 3 people in the pool or gym at one time?  Residents can sign-up for time blocks of a half-hour to an hour.  Let me choose if I think exercising my body with a slight risk of virus exposure is more important to my health and well-being than getting little or no exercise stuck at home. 

      Let me choose the risk of taking a walk on the beach, eating at a restaurant that has social distancing tables, going to a movie at a theater that has spaced-out its seating, or doing some shopping at stores that are currently closed.  We are making that choice already when we decide to go to banks, pharmacies, and food stores that are open.  It's time to allow more businesses to open and their employees to make a living, with some restrictions kept in place for businesses and events, such as concerts and spectator sports, where social distancing would be difficult to maintain.  

That would make sense if your risk taking only affected you. However, you taking risks and dragging the virus back to your condo, and infecting all the now open common areas puts your neighbors at risk. And people's disregard for others safety is why strict lockdown rules are required.

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Going to a barber is low risk, they all wear masks, you wear a mask, few customers. I go every 3 weeks as usual

Every three weeks?? I go every three months.

[albertik]

7 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Where will his tourists come from that he is so anxious to have arrive.  If the other provinces and domestic flights are not opened up, what is his big hurry?  or is it because he disenfranchised the neighboring cities whose people go to Pattaya for shopping....

I agree,  can't get there from here.

[Geordie59]

6 hours ago, baansgr said:

I'm desperate for a haircut and salons are already open....but no way am I gonna put my health in jeopardy...will people really feel comfortable visiting restaurants and bars in the immediate future... especially when wearing a mask is compulsory along with sitting at separate tables....if strict measures are not adhered to those numbers will soon jump....it's a shame but we ain't getting back to normal in Pattaya no time soon

Going to bars, restaurants or barbers will not be compulsory. Stay home and watch if the numbers jump up again.
But it would be nice to have those options back again.

[pattayadude]

6 hours ago, tomster said:

Yes.

 

Most people are capable of using their brain and figuring out that you have much more chance of getting ill from the food you are eating in the restaurant than by catching Coronavirus.

 

Or by dying in a road accident on the way the bar. Or by electrocution when you turn the light on in the toilet of the restaurant. Or from get a bone stuck in your throat when you eat your meal there.

 

These are all things that are much more likely to kill you than Coronavirus, you seriously need to get some perspective in your life and stop with the paranoid stuff.

 

 

you forgot to mention attacks by  ladyboy packs

[Leaver]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

so he was considering the number of cases of Covid-19 in the province itself as well as in Thailand and around the world before making recommendations.

Not only must he be a doctor, but also a mathematician.  Can't let money get in the way of an educated decision.   ????

[tlock]

36 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

That would make sense if your risk taking only affected you. However, you taking risks and dragging the virus back to your condo, and infecting all the now open common areas puts your neighbors at risk. And people's disregard for others safety is why strict lockdown rules are required.

Again- if you're scared stay in your room.  Don't go to the common areas.  This is just as much disregarding others, insisting that non-at-risk groups lockdown so that you can feel safe???  

[Aliflair]

I'm definitely in the open things up camp. Everything. A couple of posters on this thread said if you feel at risk then stay in your room, keep doing what you do now, I agree. Most of us came to Thailand because we like that it's a bit crazy and a lot of stuff is anything but nanny state, it pains me that right now it's "officially" more locked down than many true nanny states, so the sooner it goes back to the free market Thailand that I love the better. Could be a while yes but I live in hope. Cue the bitter old scared geezers who are gonna yap me, whatever.

[newnative]

20 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

That would make sense if your risk taking only affected you. However, you taking risks and dragging the virus back to your condo, and infecting all the now open common areas puts your neighbors at risk. And people's disregard for others safety is why strict lockdown rules are required.

   We're potentially 'dragging the virus back' already.  People are still going out now for walks or to the grocery stores, pharmacies, banks, markets, 7-11s, and so on and possibly bringing back the virus.  The biggest risk area in a condo might be the elevators.  My condo disinfects them hourly and limits them to 2 riders at a time.  When I choose to get on the elevator I know there is a bit of risk involved--and I weigh the risk.  But, as I said, if some feel there is potentially too much virus risk in using the elevators, or the lobby, or the pool, gym, etc., then they have the choice to remain in their rooms.    

[jimn]

7 hours ago, baansgr said:

I'm desperate for a haircut and salons are already open....but no way am I gonna put my health in jeopardy...will people really feel comfortable visiting restaurants and bars in the immediate future... especially when wearing a mask is compulsory along with sitting at separate tables....if strict measures are not adhered to those numbers will soon jump....it's a shame but we ain't getting back to normal in Pattaya no time soon

Get real. So there are only 15 new cases in the whole of Thailand out of 69 million people, none in Pattaya area since April 19 and it just so happens the guy cutting your hair has the virus. Its laughable.

[scubascuba3]

55 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Every three weeks?? I go every three months.

i like a sharp haircut and it grows quickly in the sun

[brucec64]

21 minutes ago, newnative said:

   We're potentially 'dragging the virus back' already.  People are still going out now for walks or to the grocery stores, pharmacies, banks, markets, 7-11s, and so on and possibly bringing back the virus.  The biggest risk area in a condo might be the elevators.  My condo disinfects them hourly and limits them to 2 riders at a time.  When I choose to get on the elevator I know there is a bit of risk involved--and I weigh the risk.  But, as I said, if some feel there is potentially too much virus risk in using the elevators, or the lobby, or the pool, gym, etc., then they have the choice to remain in their rooms.    

It's all about minimizing risk. If activities are limited to essential trips, instead of some a-hole hanging out drinking on soi bukao, risks are limited.  When people engage in non essential activities, and most likely not even trying to social distance, they increase the risk for all substantially. This selfish attitude is why strict lockdown are necessary.  

[jimn]

3 hours ago, Greenhill said:

This notice is dated 18th April and does NOT mention anything about the lockdown being lifted on 1st May - only that the decision will be reviewed beforehand!

I agree I think Richard jumped gun on quoting this article. Its status quo in Chonburi until the governor issues an updated order.

[Pilotman]

24 minutes ago, jimn said:

I agree I think Richard jumped gun on quoting this article. Its status quo in Chonburi until the governor issues an updated order.

He sometimes does jumps the gun, or makes statements that turn out to be wrong, misjudged or misleading.  Despite the apparent endorsment of the British Embassy, he's not the all knowing person some hold him up to be. In term of advice/reports, he is not another Ubon Joe.  

Edited April 24, 2020 by Pilotman

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, jimn said:

Get real. So there are only 15 new cases in the whole of Thailand out of 69 million people, none in Pattaya area since April 19 and it just so happens the guy cutting your hair has the virus. Its laughable.

There's only 15 new cases because they not testing many people here.

 

Count backwards.

 

For 15 new cases, that would mean 14 of the cases would all have been in contact with the same spreader.  I highly doubt that, across the whole country. 

 

There are a lot more cases. a lot more deaths, and a lot of covering up.  

 

Looking at it from a risk assessment point of view, do you think you would get a ventilator here, and a chance of living? 

[NoBrainer]

9 hours ago, Kerryd said:

For the Harbin post - https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/23/china-puts-new-city-10000000-people-lockdown-outbreak-12600044/

Trying to search to see if there are more (credible) sources for that story. It's in the Sun, DailyMail and Mirror (and a few others) but it looks like it's the exact same story (a cut/paste of the original) and I can't located the original story (yet) or find it on a better media site (like the BBC for example).

I see a similar article in the New York Times but I don't have a subscription and don't feel like signing up to their site. The NY Post has an article but their credibility is suspect.

Coincidentally, another story came out of Hong Kong yesterday which claims the total number of infected in China may have been 4 times the number they reported. That is based on research done by academics at Hong Kong University’s school of public health. They published their findings in Lancet. 
Basically they are saying that many infections weren't classified as "covid" (even if they were) and that's why China's reported numbers were so low.

(https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/china-coronavirus-cases-might-have-been-four-times-official-figure-says-study/ar-BB134APa).

 

There has been chatter about this for the last 3 or 4 days, it's in the north bordering Russia. It would not be a second wave, it is just the same virus that never made it to Northern China, due to their stringent domestic travel shutdowns. But as Russia is now being it spread quite rapidly, that has spilled over back into China. I read something the other day that they have restricted border crossings, and were assessing whether a new lockdown was necessary. So looks like they will be moving forward.

 

Bottom line is I don't believe that you can hide from this virus, even US Naval ships that have been at sea since before it started are suffering breakouts of infection, at last count around 25 different ships.

 

I think that we all have to be exposed to it, before it will be over. The countries that are locking in place now are just delaying the inevitable. Looking more & more like the Swedish model may have been the correct way to go.

 

 

[WillyPlatt]

Even if you believe in the herd immunity route, it is not clear that once infected you cannot be infected again.

Just like the common cold you could catch this a few times in a season. Difference is the cold gives you a sore throat and runny nose. Covid-19 might put you on a ventilator.

 

 

[NoBrainer]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

There's only 15 new cases because they not testing many people here.

 

Count backwards.

 

For 15 new cases, that would mean 14 of the cases would all have been in contact with the same spreader.  I highly doubt that, across the whole country. 

 

Quote

 

There are a lot more cases. a lot more deaths, and a lot of covering up.  

 

Looking at it from a risk assessment point of view, do you think you would get a ventilator here, and a chance of living? 

 

With a lot of time on my hands lately i have been reading an awful lot of Corona related news & information.

 

Thailand is a very good place to be regarding treatment for those who were infected and show severe symptoms.

They are admitting to hospital right away, and starting to administer every known drug to fight the virus. That is why the death rate is quite low.

Many countries like the UK & parts of Europe & America, are just treating this like they would treat a normal flu. That is not working. Ventilators are killing people, known drugs are not being prescribed, or are prescribed when it's too late.

 

As surprised as I was, Thailand is doing very well at treatment. In fact so well, the GPO just ordered many extra supplies of major drugs they are using to treat the patients.

 

Not sure if I can post the link here but for those who are interested it was from one of the 2 big english papers on April 23rd.

"GPO ups production"

The drugs are  Favipiravir, Hydroxychloroquine, Darunavir, Ritonavir, Azithromycin, Lopinavir and Ritonavir.

 

So many of you might thing that Thailand does not know what they are doing, in treatment, but in actual fact, they are doing far more to save your life than many other countries I have been reading about.

 

So i am quite satisfied that this is where i am to ride out this pandemic. If i do happen to get serious symptoms when i become infected, I can at least know that the correct treatment will be available to me. I won't be getting told that doctors in this country are only allowed to prescribe treatments that have already undergone a double blind test, and just left to die.

 

I am surely glad i was not in the UK or New York.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by NoBrainer

[Susco]

4 hours ago, Pilotman said:

4 hours ago, jimn said:

I agree I think Richard jumped gun on quoting this article. Its status quo in Chonburi until the governor issues an updated order.

He sometimes does jumps the gun, or makes statements that turn out to be wrong, misjudged or misleading.  Despite the apparent endorsment of the British Embassy, he's not the all knowing person some hold him up to be. In term of advice/reports, he is not another Ubon Joe.  

 

Richard Barrow didn't jump any gun, he just reported the news as it became available.

 

It are the armchair experts on this forum who took his reports out of its context, because comprehension is not their strongest talent.

 

Ending the Pattaya lock down applies to removing the blockades to enter Pattaya, and nothing more than that.

 

It are the possible additional easing of restrictions that are discussed by the Pattaya government today.

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, tlock said:

How about everyone who's scared stay home, and everyone who's not gets to go out? 

 

 

 

Possibly because the young and dumb will then simply become transporters of the disease causing suffering and death to others. There is also the idea of not overwhelming the health services .... you seem prepared to risk the lives of others.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, baansgr said:

I'm desperate for a haircut and salons are already open....but no way am I gonna put my health in jeopardy...will people really feel comfortable visiting restaurants and bars in the immediate future... especially when wearing a mask is compulsory along with sitting at separate tables....if strict measures are not adhered to those numbers will soon jump....it's a shame but we ain't getting back to normal in Pattaya no time soon

By all means confine yourself to your room, but why do you think others should suffer just because some of you don't want to save the economy? I'm guessing that you are rich enough to be OK- millions in LOS are not, and lives are being destroyed by restrictions.

No one is going to force you to have a haircut or eat in a restaurant.

 

Seems to me that they only just imposed the lockdown. Luxury if it's over already.

Try the 4 1/2 week economy destroying lockdown we have in NZ, and another 2 week minimum almost lockdown to come.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Possibly because the young and dumb will then simply become transporters of the disease causing suffering and death to others. There is also the idea of not overwhelming the health services .... you seem prepared to risk the lives of others.

IMO more will die because of poverty caused by the restrictions and untold lives will be ruined. IMO 'tis the pro lockdown that are risking the lives of more than would die of Corona. How many suicides are acceptable to slow the spread of Corona? Till herd immunity is reached the virus isn't going to go away.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Till herd immunity is reached the virus isn't going to go away.

It does appear to be going away in  Vietnam and Thailand and I am pretty sure they haven't got to herd immunity percentages. The situation in Western Europe and USA appears different and likely different approaches must be taken... 

I think it is time for Thailand to loosen things, but not yet the borders. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by jacko45k

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, WillyPlatt said:

Even if you believe in the herd immunity route, it is not clear that once infected you cannot be infected again.

Just like the common cold you could catch this a few times in a season. Difference is the cold gives you a sore throat and runny nose. Covid-19 might put you on a ventilator.

 

 

From what I read it's not a re infection- more that they never completely overcame the disease so same infection.

You can't catch the same strain of common cold. It mutates so it can survive as the initial victims become immune.

 

Apparently ventilators are the wrong treatment- seems they are killing the patients they are used on.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12324425